The question is this, would anyone want Stuart Lancaster as their Aviva Prem club coach?

I know this is becoming boring so with the international games soon to be upon us I'll let off until after the AB's game.

Though I do think this is a really interesting way of framing the question. Obviously as my previous posts make clear I am extremely disappointed that the English national team is being lead by an untried coach, especially following strait on from the Johnson experience - indeed that is the definition of madness....

So would anyone want SL to coach their club?

I just can't see it myself, regardless of who you support, I just don't see him cutting the mustard; could he replace a worn down Cockerill struggling with the dynamic stratagies of the modern game, maybe jump in at Sale and......or what about bringing his abilities to the excitment machines at the madstad?

The point is I do not believe the current England coaching panel will or should last beyond this season - for the last time I say either O'shea or Malinder to take over leading the team on tour in Argintina.

To play devil's advocate, i think this is a loaded question.

Every Englishman has their colours nailed onto their club, with their players, training staff, coaches and regardless of how open minded anyone is, change is always a scary thing. The flip side of your question is, would people want to get rid of their present club DoR? I can't speak for anyone else, but i would hate to see O'Shea go; so my answer would be a resounding 'no'.

That doesn't mean that i don't rate Lancaster and what he's doing. He took a few raw players, gave them belief and pride in the White & Rose, shook up the status quo massivley and went on to take a lof of fresh caps and come up with results no one was expecting .... even though my answer to your question would be exactley the one you're looking for

Interesting discussion point though.

Don't think he'd last a season at WR. External DORs don't tend too. I think he'd go very well at Sale, I can imagine him and Diamond getting on like a house on fire. He lacks club experience so I don't think many clubs would release their more experienced coaches.

AlastairW wrote:To play devil's advocate, i think this is a loaded question.

that is a polite way of putting it.

To do the OP more respect than it deserves:

COS and Kingsley Jones are very good fits for their clubs and Quins/LW may well be weaker if replaced by Lancaster. Nigel Davies is new to Glaws and seems to be doing the right things.

Other than that I do not think any of the other 9 clubs would be weaker should Lancaster replace the DoR*. Saints I believe would gain the most by appointing him as Mallinder has taken them as far as he can - and Saints look stale nowadays.

*Not looking to disparage what the other coaches are doing (especially Rob Baxter) and not saying Lancaster would be better - just not worse.

Over Deano? What do you think?

GeordieFalcon wrote:Over Deano? What do you think?

Of course you would not. Yet, bif=g fan of Deano that I am, Lancaster could still do a very good job at Kingston Park.

Is Lancaster the one to worry about though?
Surely the question should be would any one want his whole coaching team at their club?

I'd still say no (to all of them). Catt is pretty unproven, Farrel is another newby and Rowntree although very good never struck me as being ahead of the curve.

Really, you honestly rate SL that highly.

Surely the top coaching position in the country should be filled by the best coach.....apart from the 8(10) games we really have no idea about the ability of SL, he is as near as totally unproven.

Seriouly I'd place him as an achedemy coach only.

kingelderfield wrote:Surely the top coaching position in the country should be filled by the best coach

And the best coach is?

kingelderfield wrote:Really, you honestly rate SL that highly.

Surely the top coaching position in the country should be filled by the best coach.....apart from the 8(10) games we really have no idea about the ability of SL, he is as near as totally unproven.

Seriouly I'd place him as an achedemy coach only.

But from the RFU's point of view, he's not unproven. He was part of the elite player development setup for several years - which is arguably better preparation for international coaching than being a club DoR. An international coach has to build a squad with limited access to the players, and then establish a culture and tactics quickly when he does have access to them. A club DoR has access to his players week in, week out.

Who was the last club DoR to make a successful transition to the international stage? In England it was probably Jack Rowell.

Ideally, you want experience of both sides, but the obvious candidate for that - O'Shea - didn't want the job. Would I swap COS for Lancaster? Yes. I'd miss Conor's way with the press, but I think they share the same values and approach.

By the way, when Quins announced that their replacement for Deano was Conor, there was widespread grumbling on the boards. We need someone with a track record, someone who's not been out of rugby for three years, someone we've heard of. Quins should have more ambition than to hire an Irish nobody.

How right those doubters were. </irony>

No, I'd take Connor O'Shea over pretty much anyone

Poorfour wrote:

kingelderfield wrote:Really, you honestly rate SL that highly.

Surely the top coaching position in the country should be filled by the best coach.....apart from the 8(10) games we really have no idea about the ability of SL, he is as near as totally unproven.

Seriouly I'd place him as an achedemy coach only.

But from the RFU's point of view, he's not unproven. He was part of the elite player development setup for several years - which is arguably better preparation for international coaching than being a club DoR. An international coach has to build a squad with limited access to the players, and then establish a culture and tactics quickly when he does have access to them. A club DoR has access to his players week in, week out.

Who was the last club DoR to make a successful transition to the international stage? In England it was probably Jack Rowell.

Ideally, you want experience of both sides, but the obvious candidate for that - O'Shea - didn't want the job. Would I swap COS for Lancaster? Yes. I'd miss Conor's way with the press, but I think they share the same values and approach.

By the way, when Quins announced that their replacement for Deano was Conor, there was widespread grumbling on the boards. We need someone with a track record, someone who's not been out of rugby for three years, someone we've heard of. Quins should have more ambition than to hire an Irish nobody.

How right those doubters were. </irony>

I believe SCW moved across from London Irish and was later joined by AR from Bath, both were club DIR's.

I appreciate its very easy to shout the odds from the side line, but seriously it has to be a current proven coach who is promoted into the top job and we all really know that nobody with the right CV was prepared to work for the RFU, hence they decided to go from within. Will Carling discribed them as 57 old farts, that was some time ago - omnishambles is the current parlance. I just hope with WC around the corner they grow some and get it sorted. Do people really not understand this is Rugby's Olympic moment and such opportunities come once a generation only.

Best coach;

COS
Malinder
Baxter
Richards
Venter

kingelderfield wrote:
I believe SCW moved across from London Irish and was later joined by AR from Bath, both were club DIR's.

SCW was a real punt by the RFU having never held the top job anywhere before appointment. He had left LI and was working as a consultant at Bath when the RFU appointed him. AR was a decent forwards coach - and a shocking head coach.

All DoRs in England made themselves unavailable. So who would you have picked? How about giving the current coaches a fair break. After all results so far have been decent.

kingelderfield wrote:Best coach;

COS

Was unavailable, was appointed to Quins with the same experiences as Lancaster.

Malinder

Was unavailable - is struggling with Saints

Baxter

Decent DoR. Very similar to Lancaster

Richards

Was unavailable, will never get the job. Is a manager not a head coach.

Venter

Only part time at Sarries as he wants to live in SA.



And of course your rampant bias excluded the most successful DoR currently working in the premiership.

I've got nothing against RC, he just dosn't have the coaching or selectorial ability.