Ospreys disappointed as WRU block match with Tonga

Seems a bit of a shame that they can't have the game as it would have been a good night out for Bridgend area kids/rugby fans, good experience for the Ospreys youngsters and an extra game for the Tonga squad who don't play together much. The 'player burnout' excuse doesn't seem to hold up as the Ospreys would be rotating their squad for the LV games anyway. But I'd imagine there's more considerations than the BBC have outlined below...



Ospreys chief Andrew Hore has expressed his disappointment at the Welsh Rugby Union's decision to deny them the chance to host Tonga in Bridgend.

Hore says the WRU citied "player welfare" concerns and potential effects on Welsh Premiership fixtures to block the game that had been planned for Tuesday, 13 November.

"It's a real shame," said Ospreys operations manager Hore.

The Welsh Rugby Union have been asked to comment.

Hore says they had hoped to have a repeat of the Ospreys' last encounter against an international team, when they beat Australia 24-16 in November 2006.

Instead Tonga will face English second-tier side Newcastle at Kingston Park.

If the Ospreys' clash against Tonga at the Brewery Field had been given the go-ahead, the Ospreys would have faced three games in eight days.

They host Gloucester in the opening LV= Cup round on Friday, 9 November and travel to Exeter on Saturday, 17 November in the second round.

"We were hoping, like the year we played Australia that we could play a midweek [game] in November," said Hore.

Hore does not understand the WRU's reasons for refusing to sanction the match but said the region had to "respect" their decision.

He added: "The money that we would have generated from that game we were going to put back into that team to take it down to Exeter… for some extra player development.

"So it's a real shame, especially when you see near on 3,00 kids here [Ospreys v Leinster] for free today - it's those sort of people that miss out on seeing an international side in Bridgend.

"The player burn-out thing? We played nearly four games in 12 days to get to the Pro12 final a couple of years ago and three games in seven days, so a one-off isn't really going to affect these younger players because they're biting at the bit to get out there and play this calibre of competition.

"Particularly because it's Bridgend it's particularly frustrating. We want to give something back to that part of the region.

"We've got a lot of work to do there and it would have been really good to have a good house down there in that little ground and to have something like that to celebrate."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/20200617

"Particularly because it's Bridgend it's particularly frustrating. We want to give something back to that part of the region....but not so much that we'll take a league game there...'

Presumably.

didn't Bridgend turn down the chance to host an LV game - which was meant to be a pre-cursor to getting a Rabo match?

Feel sorry for Tonga Samoa and Fiji, all three nations have the potential to be huge,
But the Sanzar have absolute no interest in playing them, also seems when teams from the North try and help the excuse book from the money men at the top comes out.

Samoa would be a more competitive team in the six nations rather than Scotland or Itay

Scotland are the only traditional country who can even start to not feel embarrassed about how they treat the PI countries. At least Scotland visited them in the Summer. (perhaps in part due to SANZAR being tied up - but they still did it).

It is a shame Tonga will not appear at Bridgend but at least Newcastle stepped up to the mark.

LondonTiger wrote:didn't Bridgend turn down the chance to host an LV game - which was meant to be a pre-cursor to getting a Rabo match?

They hosted your lot, Leicester Tigers, at Bridgend in the LV cup. Bit of a thrashing so you may have erased it from your memory!

didn't ireland go to the PIs the year before

Griff wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:didn't Bridgend turn down the chance to host an LV game - which was meant to be a pre-cursor to getting a Rabo match?

They hosted your lot, Leicester Tigers, at Bridgend in the LV cup. Bit of a thrashing so you may have erased it from your memory!

Never happened.

Brendan wrote:didn't ireland go to the PIs the year before

Last time Wales went was early nineties and six players got heat stroke.

I agree that they must be included on summer tours.

LondonTiger wrote:didn't Bridgend turn down the chance to host an LV game - which was meant to be a pre-cursor to getting a Rabo match?

Not far off mate, but it was Pontypridd who turned down the Cardiff Blues offer of an LV= cup game being played at Sardis road.

viewtothegym wrote:
Samoa would be a more competitive team in the six nations rather than Scotland or Itay

Scotland have beaten Samoa home and away in their most recent matches against each other.

Wales are touring Fiji next summer and Japan i think

Didn't think WRU cared about player burnout with all the extra fixtures they keep arranging outside of the window. money seems to be the only thing that matters

Casartelli wrote:"Particularly because it's Bridgend it's particularly frustrating. We want to give something back to that part of the region....but not so much that we'll take a league game there...'

Presumably.

We can't play League or LV games there as they are part of the Season Ticket package and we've sold more season tickets than the Brewery Field capacity.

Pathetic by the WRU, they add pointless international games all over the place yet we try to arrrange one and it's blocked on player welfare grounds!

The chances are we'd of used players from Bridgend, Aberavon, Neath and Swansea in the team anyway. Which is exactly what the WRU did in their Premiership XV game against Georgia last season.

wayne wrote:

Casartelli wrote:"Particularly because it's Bridgend it's particularly frustrating. We want to give something back to that part of the region....but not so much that we'll take a league game there...'

Presumably.

We can't play League or LV games there as they are part of the Season Ticket package and we've sold more season tickets than the Brewery Field capacity.

Not sure that argument stacks up.

If the Ospreys did actually factor in all the freebie season tickets they gave away (one friend + 4 kids) when considering stadium capacity/health & safety rules - they'd have to play all their home games in the Nou Camp.

Bet the WRU weren't gonna see any of the money and decided they'd block it, considering that's all they're about i wouldn't be surprised.

Casartelli wrote:

wayne wrote:

Casartelli wrote:"Particularly because it's Bridgend it's particularly frustrating. We want to give something back to that part of the region....but not so much that we'll take a league game there...'

Presumably.

We can't play League or LV games there as they are part of the Season Ticket package and we've sold more season tickets than the Brewery Field capacity.

Not sure that argument stacks up.

If the Ospreys did actually factor in all the freebie season tickets they gave away (one friend + 4 kids) when considering stadium capacity/health & safety rules - they'd have to play all their home games in the Nou Camp.

This has been explained before on this board by myself, you obviously haven't the capacity to remember these things, there are aprox 9500 Season ticket holders at the Ospreys they are only the people that have the BOGOF offer and a member can then fetch 4 kids, these are not Season Ticket holders and would not come under the full membership criteria, also to reiterate the free member cann't fetch any children free. Hope I don't have to post this again in a few months.

There would have been very (if any at all) financial gain from this game for the WRU so they not interested in it so blockec it

wayne wrote:

Casartelli wrote:

wayne wrote:

Casartelli wrote:"Particularly because it's Bridgend it's particularly frustrating. We want to give something back to that part of the region....but not so much that we'll take a league game there...'

Presumably.

We can't play League or LV games there as they are part of the Season Ticket package and we've sold more season tickets than the Brewery Field capacity.

Not sure that argument stacks up.

If the Ospreys did actually factor in all the freebie season tickets they gave away (one friend + 4 kids) when considering stadium capacity/health & safety rules - they'd have to play all their home games in the Nou Camp.

This has been explained before on this board by myself, you obviously haven't the capacity to remember these things, there are aprox 9500 Season ticket holders at the Ospreys they are only the people that have the BOGOF offer and a member can then fetch 4 kids, these are not Season Ticket holders and would not come under the full membership criteria, also to reiterate the free member cann't fetch any children free. Hope I don't have to post this again in a few months.

I think Isaac Newton would have found his capacity challenged by the Ospreys BOGOF calculations.

4750 sold + 4750 'get one frees' = 9500

So far so good. BUT

If the 4750 (paid) members each bring 4 kids (4750 x 4 = 19000) and the free members also popped along you'd have

4750+4750+19000 = 28500

turning up at the Liberty (which is obviously way more than the capacity).

So, why does the number of 'season ticket packages' sold mean that they can't take the occasional league game to Bridgend?

Most Rabo home attendances would easily fit into the Brewery Field.

Casartelli wrote:

wayne wrote:

Casartelli wrote:

wayne wrote:

Casartelli wrote:"Particularly because it's Bridgend it's particularly frustrating. We want to give something back to that part of the region....but not so much that we'll take a league game there...'

Presumably.

We can't play League or LV games there as they are part of the Season Ticket package and we've sold more season tickets than the Brewery Field capacity.

Not sure that argument stacks up.

If the Ospreys did actually factor in all the freebie season tickets they gave away (one friend + 4 kids) when considering stadium capacity/health & safety rules - they'd have to play all their home games in the Nou Camp.

This has been explained before on this board by myself, you obviously haven't the capacity to remember these things, there are aprox 9500 Season ticket holders at the Ospreys they are only the people that have the BOGOF offer and a member can then fetch 4 kids, these are not Season Ticket holders and would not come under the full membership criteria, also to reiterate the free member cann't fetch any children free. Hope I don't have to post this again in a few months.

I think Isaac Newton would have found his capacity challenged by the Ospreys BOGOF calculations.

4750 sold + 4750 'get one frees' = 9500

So far so good. BUT

If the 4750 (paid) members each bring 4 kids (4750 x 4 = 19000) and the free members also popped along you'd have

4750+4750+19000 = 28500

turning up at the Liberty (which is obviously way more than the capacity).

So, why does the number of 'season ticket packages' sold mean that they can't take the occasional league game to Bridgend?

Most Rabo home attendances would easily fit into the Brewery Field.

Cas don't be a tool, you know full well that the 4 children that are 'free entry' are not certain of their seats, and if they turn up and there are no seats they would be turned away, so seasts do not need to be reserved for them.

However 9,500 people do need to have their seats saved whether they turn up or not, as they are season ticket holders. How many can the Brewery hold?

"Tool". Lol.

SS, what you say just isn't correct under the terms of the Ospreys BOGOF deal. There's no distinction between the 'free kids' and the 'free friend' when it comes to seating priorities.

I've attached a copy of the T & Cs for your reference.

Casartelli's reasoning, maths and detailed explanation stands up to any scrutiny. Whereas claiming that league games can only be played at the Liberty for 'season ticket package' reasons does not. It's nonsense, mathematically.

http://www.ospreysrugby.com/downloads/OspreysSeasonTickets2012-2013.pdf

bedfordwelsh wrote:There would have been very (if any at all) financial gain from this game for the WRU so they not interested in it so blockec it

Indeed and this Tonga fixture would have been a nice little earner for the Os and I applaud them for arranging it.
No doubt it would have been an exciting prospect for the players (young or old) and fans alike with The Brewery Field rammed to the rafters.
By coming up with half baked excuses and refusing to allow this, the WRU have shown their true colours I feel especially as the PWC report concluded that they should have a better working relationship with the regions.
I'm of the opinion that Roger may be a bit mad.

Ospreys keeping powder dry for the big one when Glaws come and visit on Friday.

Casartelli wrote:"Tool". Lol.

SS, what you say just isn't correct under the terms of the Ospreys BOGOF deal. There's no distinction between the 'free kids' and the 'free friend' when it comes to seating priorities.

I've attached a copy of the T & Cs for your reference.

Casartelli's reasoning, maths and detailed explanation stands up to any scrutiny. Whereas claiming that league games can only be played at the Liberty for 'season ticket package' reasons does not. It's nonsense, mathematically.

http://www.ospreysrugby.com/downloads/OspreysSeasonTickets2012-2013.pdf

Casartelli, SS is right, there are 9500 entitled to watch any match under the BOGOF scheme, not 19000, 28500 or any multiple of 9500.
I think your tool needs sharpening and a good file to take off the multiple layers of rust.

Well, call me thick but I still don't really understand the Bogof deal at the O's either. I've read though the T&Cs but can't figure it out.

Worst (or best case scenario from an atmosphere point of view) how many maximum could turn up on the day with normal season tickets, bogofs and bringing their kids. What's the max possible (forget those that just want to buy a ticket on the day or away fans)?

Griff wrote:Well, call me thick but I still don't really understand the Bogof deal at the O's either. I've read though the T&Cs but can't figure it out.

Worst (or best case scenario from an atmosphere point of view) how many maximum could turn up on the day with normal season tickets, bogofs and bringing their kids. What's the max possible (forget those that just want to buy a ticket on the day or away fans)?

Griff, we have sold 95OO season tickets some on their own but the majority apparently under the BOGOF offer, say for instance 1000 on their own that leaves 8500 halved, equals 4250 pay half price these are all members, 2 small sections of the ground then come under the 4 free tickets for kids they can only get these with one of the 1000 and the first primary member that is 4250, making 5250, these free child areas only covers about 500 seats and these do not come under the Season Ticket scheme, therefore these kids cannot go into the Brewery Field until all these Season Ticket holders have first chance, and as the BF doesn't hold 9500 the LV games that have been played in earlier seasons could not be used this year.
The proposed Tonga match would not have been covered under the ST scheme, that is why as Arthur Daly would put it "a nice little earner" has been lost for no good reason, IMO Roger the Dodger, couldn't stand the competition for the first 2 AIs, I've been told tickets for mainly the Samoa game is going very slowly

Ok thanks Wayne, think I get it now. That explains the Tonga Bridgend thing too.

Back to the topic.
The WRU blocked an Os initiative because it didn't suit their agenda and the Ospreys management are not happy nor are their supporters and nor are supporters of the other regions who have made their views known on other message boards.
Not that I buy it, but has the echo or the fail reported this story yet?

Cardiff Dave wrote:Back to the topic.
The WRU blocked an Os initiative because it didn't suit their agenda and the Ospreys management are not happy nor are their supporters and nor are supporters of the other regions who have made their views known on other message boards.
Not that I buy it, but has the echo or the fail reported this story yet?

CD, Andrew Hore came out with this at half time in our game on S4C on Sunday there was nothing on the Eastern Fail on Monday or on Wales on Line yesterday, they wouldn't would they they are the WRU mouthpiece.

wayne wrote:

Griff wrote:Well, call me thick but I still don't really understand the Bogof deal at the O's either. I've read though the T&Cs but can't figure it out.

Worst (or best case scenario from an atmosphere point of view) how many maximum could turn up on the day with normal season tickets, bogofs and bringing their kids. What's the max possible (forget those that just want to buy a ticket on the day or away fans)?

Griff, we have sold 95OO season tickets some on their own but the majority apparently under the BOGOF offer, say for instance 1000 on their own that leaves 8500 halved, equals 4250 pay half price these are all members, 2 small sections of the ground then come under the 4 free tickets for kids they can only get these with one of the 1000 and the first primary member that is 4250, making 5250, these free child areas only covers about 500 seats and these do not come under the Season Ticket scheme, therefore these kids cannot go into the Brewery Field until all these Season Ticket holders have first chance, and as the BF doesn't hold 9500 the LV games that have been played in earlier seasons could not be used this year.
The proposed Tonga match would not have been covered under the ST scheme, that is why as Arthur Daly would put it "a nice little earner" has been lost for no good reason, IMO Roger the Dodger, couldn't stand the competition for the first 2 AIs, I've been told tickets for mainly the Samoa game is going very slowly

Ospreys T & Cs and 'Season Member Application Form' (link provided for ease of reference) indicate a 'Paying Adult' can take a friend and 4 kids for free. No maximum or limits mentioned.

http://www.ospreysrugby.com/downloads/201213ApplicationForm.pdf

Andre Hore said on telly that 3,000 kids had gone free to the Leinster game. He didn't mention the BOGOF thing - he's probably just as confused as everyone else.

wayne wrote:

Cardiff Dave wrote:Back to the topic.
The WRU blocked an Os initiative because it didn't suit their agenda and the Ospreys management are not happy nor are their supporters and nor are supporters of the other regions who have made their views known on other message boards.
Not that I buy it, but has the echo or the fail reported this story yet?

CD, Andrew Hore came out with this at half time in our game on S4C on Sunday there was nothing on the Eastern Fail on Monday or on Wales on Line yesterday, they wouldn't would they they are the WRU mouthpiece.

I watched the game and missed that bit obviously, but surely Os supporters have to arrange some kind of a protest. I'd be bleedin fuming if the WRU denied Cardiff Blues a similar opportunity. What is the general feeling of Os fans?

It is a real pity....

Mind you, one game that should have been pushed for this year, surly, should have been Scarlets v All Blacks. Could have given the Blacks a chance for revenge, being the 40 year anniversary.


I've said before on the old BBC site, I would like to see the return of the "old" tours. Would be a great revenue generator..

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/606/A54532703

Using my model from (as per the link above) and based on last years Pro 12 results we would see :-

- Blues v Argentina at the Arms Park (would have been last night)
- Dragons v Samoa at Rodney Parade (would be next Tue night)
- Ospreys v New Zealand at the Liberty (would be Wed 21st Nov)
- Scarlets v Australia at Parc Y Scarlets (would be Wed 28th Nov)

(Actually, using last years results, we would get the same fixture list as when I posted back in July 2009 )

Now how many of you wouldn't have like to see this....

Biggles - that would have been a cracking, and probably far better supported (and as good a money spinner) as the bleeding LV= that we are forced into. If you can get the casual fan to turn up to a match like that, which they would, then you have a chance at getting them hooked on the regional concept altogether. But at the moment things like taht are a bit too joined up thinking.

Casartelli, there are 4 small areas on the SW and SE corner of the Stadium that are classed as Family Enclosures, a ST holder can fetch 4 Family members to these areas.
As for Sunday for the 10 Year Anniversary of the Inception of our region, the region invited all junior clubs for a certain age group Free to this match, I understand the same applies for a different age group for tomorrow's game against Gloucester. FYI I've been told the South Stand holds aprox 3000 same as the North Stand with the East and West holding 7000 each, the South Stand was way below half full, from what I understand if all the clubs attended at each age group that would be 3000.
CD, the Forum is understandadly livid, but generally nothing more than expected, because of past experiences with the WRU.

Have the WRU made a statement yet, explaining why they blocked this match from going ahead?

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Have the WRU made a statement yet, explaining why they blocked this match from going ahead?

They never make any statements any more, do they???

Quite sinister. Like Opus Dei or something.

Opus Diaboli, more like.

wayne wrote:
CD, the Forum is understandadly livid, but generally nothing more than expected, because of past experiences with the WRU.

Well i'm glad they are livid, but they should be more livid?

Cardiff Dave wrote:

wayne wrote:
CD, the Forum is understandadly livid, but generally nothing more than expected, because of past experiences with the WRU.

Well i'm glad they are livid, but they should be more livid?

CD, you could see by todays attendance the reason this game was called off, the number of empty seats and the number of kids near the front (probably given free tickets) and the envisaged reported poor attendance for next Friday is the main reason for this match not being sanctioned.
Can I say I started supporting the Ospreys the first year they went to play at the Liberty Stadium, the main reason I started was because of my age I remember the good times of Welsh rugby, because of the dearth of decent results for Wales, I thought this was the last chance of getting a decent future for the National team, I and many on the Ospreys forum now care more for the Ospreys than the National team because of the way the WRU treat the Regional Teams

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Biggles - that would have been a cracking, and probably far better supported (and as good a money spinner) as the bleeding LV= that we are forced into. If you can get the casual fan to turn up to a match like that, which they would, then you have a chance at getting them hooked on the regional concept altogether. But at the moment things like taht are a bit too joined up thinking.

Iv'e read that the regions get £250k from the LV cup for the pool stages, basically they get a free little earner while the internationals away and a chance to showcase their younger players. The regions WANT the LV cup and were prepared to get thrown out of the Rabo Direct to participate in it. If you go back to it's inception you will realise the Irish and Scottish ejected the Welsh from the Rabo at the time because they were concerned about fixture clashes, and the extra money Welsh teams would get. Now though the games are played in international windows.

Going back over some of the other discussions on this thread, I think the Ospreys actually have 3,000-3,500 or so paying season ticket holders. The promotion with the extra adult was simply a promotion this season to try and get attendances up, and generate interest. Remember we have a 20,000 capacity stadium so there is no real harm in attempting these kinds of offers. All these free children coming in free will be future supporters of the region, it's good in the long term. In fact I think most of the regions let children in free anyway.

As for the Tonga game it is disappointing, but Wales play Samoa 2 days after this game was arranged and as Samoa and Tonga are fairly similar it is fair to say some fans might of said we'll just go to the Tonga game, not the Samoa one. What's irritating is the Union have cited player welfare issues for cancelling this game. Basically last season the WRU themselves arranged a mid week game for a Premiership XV game against Georgia at Bridgend. Well this would of been a midweek game against international opposition, and the Ospreys basically said they'd use players from Aberavon, Neath, Bridgend and Swansea and a few lads from the Ospreys academy in their team. So the reasoning is flawed.

The key issues really is the WRU has told the Regions to be creative and find alternate revenue streams, the Ospreys have tried to do that and been blocked. It's disappointing for Bridgend because the local fans who can't travel to Swansea won't get to see the Ospreys this year. Though on the other side of the fence the WRU need to maximise the earnings from the few games they do have to fund the entire Welsh game, and to be fair the Ospreys did sign a loyalty agreement with the WRU and have agreed to abide by their decisions, just because something goes against them they should not be disruptive and make such a fuss. Though the WRU should of just been honest and said hey we only have 7-8 home games a season to fund the game and we need every penny possible.

sirBiggles wrote:It is a real pity....

Mind you, one game that should have been pushed for this year, surly, should have been Scarlets v All Blacks. Could have given the Blacks a chance for revenge, being the 40 year anniversary.


I've said before on the old BBC site, I would like to see the return of the "old" tours. Would be a great revenue generator..

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/606/A54532703

Using my model from (as per the link above) and based on last years Pro 12 results we would see :-

- Blues v Argentina at the Arms Park (would have been last night)
- Dragons v Samoa at Rodney Parade (would be next Tue night)
- Ospreys v New Zealand at the Liberty (would be Wed 21st Nov)
- Scarlets v Australia at Parc Y Scarlets (would be Wed 28th Nov)

(Actually, using last years results, we would get the same fixture list as when I posted back in July 2009 )

Now how many of you wouldn't have like to see this....

This would be good but I would prefer to see it done as part of the Rabo league with the 4 teams making the play offs rewarded with an international fixture as this would help raise the profile of the league, I know this wouid have meant only the Ospreys representing Wales this year but they would of been there on merit.

Seeing the Tigers and Glaws playing touring sides the Ospreys have missed out on Tonga revenue went the regions are struggling, Fiji played the Glaws with almost the same team that played the Ospreys in the LV, if the Ospreys played their LV team it is hardly going to affect the international team. Short sighted by the WRU.