Am I the only one who thinks Welsh rugby is not in crisis?

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Seen a couple of posts that have already said that Welsh rugby is now in crisis. No doubt these were the same people who claimed post 2012 6n that we were world beaters.

I am not making excuses for yesterday. The performance was not good enough. There probably was too may picks that w ere made on past form and not present form. However this is the way this management team has selected its squads since it took charge.

However the result should not come as too much of a shock, if you are not close to 100% against any top 10 team you are going to struggle to win test matches. Alot has been made of the passion and commitment of the argies yesterday, I think that is the LEAST spirited performance I have seen from them. They looked less like a bunch of screaming banchies that we have seen in the past and more controlled. It was the most intelligent game I have seen them play against us, they played the game in our half and starved us of the ball. Then when the opportunity came they upped the tempo grabbed their two well worked tries and sat back and saw the game out.

I think people should just put it down to a bad day at the office. Congratulate the argies on a very astute performance (and learn the lesson to not underestimate themagain) and look forward to a much needed backlash against Samoa on Friday

Griff wrote:Crikey! Big distances. That's why it's so frustrating here when we can't get things to work on a much smaller/closer scale. It should be the 1 rare occasion where being small is an advantage, yet for some reason we can't use it to our advantage.

Yeah that is rather sad to be honest.

Ellispark the home ground of the Lions (which is the closest Currie Cup team to me) is 20 kms away, the Bulls is 70 kms away from me, and between these two groups of supporters the 70 km drive is nothing.

How long would that take in the car? Are there good transport networks?

Biltong, Many thanks for the letters -- very interesting, and the views expressed chime with many felt by disaffected supporters in Wales.

I do wonder what will happen with at least some of the current regions. If more become bankrupt, perhaps the WRU will redraw maps and offer a new, truly regional franchise to new entities. Time will tell.

Your earlier comment about Wales' population is apt. In Europe, the likes of England and France really should dominate Euro rugby, because of their greater player base and resources. But because of Wales' small population, the WRU really does need to think long and hard about the current regional setup, because we can't afford to turn off lots of potential supporters (in Ponty/Bridgend, and North Wales especially). I'm not sure that the current regions will continue in their current guises, despite the obvious fact that numerous clubs at the top pro level are unfundable/unsustainable. If the current regional problems are not solved, the pro game will die, which will have an effect on European rugby, given Wales' heritage. On a positive note, the WRU has paid off most of the Millenium stadium and on current plans it will apparently be paid off in full by 2021. When it is paid off, there will be far more funding for whatever regions exist, but far more needs to be done before then.

"No doubt these were the same people who claimed post 2012 6n that we were world beaters." -- Welsh pro rugby is in crisis. And I have never said Wales are world beaters and never will unless we do beat the best teams in the world and prove it!

Griff wrote:How long would that take in the car? Are there good transport networks?

We have rather good highways, a trip to Pretoria takes roughly 40-50 minutes depending on traffic.

Durban will take 5 and a half hours.

Whenever I go on holiday I work on estimated driving time of 100 km per hour (that includes stops for fuel or whatever)

Problem in Wales is if you live in between Anglesey to Wrexham it takes hours to get to the nearest region.

Biltong wrote:

Griff wrote:How long would that take in the car? Are there good transport networks?

We have rather good highways, a trip to Pretoria takes roughly 40-50 minutes depending on traffic.

Durban will take 5 and a half hours.

Whenever I go on holiday I work on estimated driving time of 100 km per hour (that includes stops for fuel or whatever)

Yeah, that's the problem (in part) here I guess. It can easily take 1 hour to do the 20 miles from the edge of the region (e.g. Ebbw Vale or Brynmawr) to Newport. 45 mins at best. Not making excuses, but it may be further away in real terms than the short distance suggests, if that makes sense. Along the motorway from side to side in South Wales is fine though! I can cover the distance from the most easterly region (Dragons in Newport) to the furthest west (Scarlets) which is 70 miles roughly in about the same time as getting 20 miles to the top of our region!

"My underlying feeling is that the winning of the Grand Slam and our performances at the Rugby World Cup, where we reached the semi-finals and finished fourth, gave Welsh rugby credibility in spite of the structure under-pinning and not sustaining it.

It seems that the negative issues affecting the lower echelons of Welsh rugby have percolated upwards and we are in serious trouble."


Source: Wales Online http://www.walesonline.co.uk/rugbynation/rugby-news/2012/11/18/graham-price-wales-coaches-must-look-at-themselves-in-the-mirror-91466-32254123/#ixzz2Ca0l9i98

Welsh rugby like every other nation in the game has its concerns, we are making massive progress compared to what we had over ten years ago.

Two losses to two teams who were in the best form I have seen them in in my lifetime does not mean we are once again no-hopers in the game as we were after the massive League exodus in the late eighties.

A team that performed very well through out the last eighteen months is massively under performing and players need to be held to account for this, they need to find what is missing from their own game. Coaches need to look at what systems they are implementing because something is breaking down, something is not working.

Though is this really any different to any other team under performing?

Can we blame what is going on below as being responsible for what happens at the top?

We are producing more decent players from youth level than we have done in forty years. Unless I see stats proving otherwise, it certainly appears that more schools are playing rugby, there are more initiatives and more grants to encourage rugby at lower levels. It is certainly well publicised that this is what is happening.

First key to solving any problems in wales involve getting the regions and the national team to improve performances consistently, to win more games than they do. Will money solve the issues, probably not. Its a very good kick up the arse most of them need.

The WRU must improve the Regions to help make them more successful/prevent some 40-50 point thrashings. The grass-roots is second to none. They've done exceedingly well there. But then they get fed into failing teams which in turn feed the national team. I've been saying all along the only way the WRU could do this is by running or owning the Regions. But let's hope they do a damned better job than they have done with running half of the Dragons Region. But perhaps they could select some decent coaches and help keep players/bring in good players this way.

We've improved over the last 10 years no doubt. Unless Welsh rugby plans on having that reversed, drastic action needs to be taken now.

I think it was Paul O'Connell who once described Ireland during their run of bad form as "A good side playing badly, rather than a bad side".

I think Wales will bounce back, a few losses doesn't mean a whole lot in the grand scheme of things, especially if we are truly building towards the world cup 4 years away. As long as we can develop some strength in depth.

It seems that this year and last the WRU are certainly working very hard to organise the regions, the PWC report was a massively positive step. Directors moving out of the organisations too.

From all I read, I see the region being a huge concern for the WRU but they will not commit to a short term fix. They want Welsh rugby to work for the future. The regions and the press see short term gains as beneficial.

If the WRU pumped masses of cash into the regions that meant that one of them won the HEC next year would it solve a long term problem? No...! Because the WRU can not afford to keep doing that. Disbanding the regions and returning to clubs is a moronic suggestion that I won't even discuss further.

The regions and the WRU need to find a way to keep producing better and better young players, they need to keep top Welsh players at the regions for as long as possible (raising the quality of the regions). They need to agree on a financial package between the WRU and Regional rugby that keeps players we need at the regions, but equally the Regions and the WRU need to work out how they can make regional rugby sustainable and unsupported.

The WRU has been very clear that it can not afford to fund Central Contracting absolving the regions of their responsibilities for Welsh Players.

Though the WRU PWC report shows that wastage of funds and improper infrastructure at the regions has been a huge concern. With sensible business practices applied it is a realistic ambition that the regions can be self sufficient, only re-embursed by the WRU for International duty call ups.

the WRU but they will not commit to a short term fix.

You mean like localising talent pools into squads overfilled with top class players ala the regions inception???

Disbanding the regions and returning to clubs is a moronic suggestion

Clubs didn't exist in the professional era, the game and the staff have changed massively since clubs so IMO it's not returning, it's progressing down another route.

The regions and the WRU need to find a way to keep producing better and better young players
What exactly do the regions have to do with this? WRU staff and funds create elite players, regions do little but let them play in their colours!

they need to keep top Welsh players at the regions for as long as possible

You mean cultivate them to a great cost to the WRU until they show any quality then allow them to earn the real money further afeild?

The WRU has been very clear that it can not afford to fund Central Contracting absolving the regions of their responsibilities for Welsh Players.

And why should the regions have responsibility for Welsh players? unless they are funded for player release to the welsh squad?!

If the regions are evr going to be self sufficient the player base, and player quality has to be far lower than it even is now, and without any sort of fanbase you can kiss self sufficients goodbye.


The regions have to focus on themselves, they have to create something for themselves, and they have to inspire a fanbase. IMHO the fanbase issue is a non starter, and therefore any proposition put to the regions is in vain.

There is an answer somewhere, listen to the fans, create a fanbase and build a sustainable business model from there.

Wales will have found a solution to the funding crisis by RWC 2020:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-20346118

Gwyn Jones' view:

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/rugbynation/rugby-news/2012/11/22/gwyn-jones-wales-success-unsustainable-while-regions-are-so-poor-91466-32281711/#sitelife-commentsWidget-bottom

Ospreydragon wrote:Gwyn Jones' view:

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/rugbynation/rugby-news/2012/11/22/gwyn-jones-wales-success-unsustainable-while-regions-are-so-poor-91466-32281711/#sitelife-commentsWidget-bottom

Good read cheers for that... Interesting points raised, none undiscussed a million times over in the recent few months, but it is the future we want to see in the here and now.

We have to face facts that no matter what the WRU or the Regions do, whether tomorrow morning, by Xmas or in the distant future will make little impact to what isn't happening now.

This weekend the team is basically what we played in the Six Nations and World Cup, Adam Jones absence is huge as is second choice Craig Mitchell, so is AWJ. Though form has been the issue not lack of talent, these players have all proved they can perform at the required level, we were all hoping that they would exceed that level, not sustain it or worse still under-acheive.

It was said a long time ago, by Gwyn Jones as well I think, that the inept leadership of the WRU through the seventies, eighties and most of the nineties would take half that time to resolve. We have had peaks and troughs for a decade now, the difference is as time progresses the troughs are shallowed and the peaks reached are higher.

One of the greatest lessons Welsh rugby needs to adhere to in all aspects is patience.

maestegmafia wrote:
Good read cheers for that... Interesting points raised, none undiscussed a million times over in the recent few months, but it is the future we want to see in the here and now.

We have to face facts that no matter what the WRU or the Regions do, whether tomorrow morning, by Xmas or in the distant future will make little impact to what isn't happening now.

This weekend the team is basically what we played in the Six Nations and World Cup, Adam Jones absence is huge as is second choice Craig Mitchell, so is AWJ. Though form has been the issue not lack of talent, these players have all proved they can perform at the required level, we were all hoping that they would exceed that level, not sustain it or worse still under-acheive.

It was said a long time ago, by Gwyn Jones as well I think, that the inept leadership of the WRU through the seventies, eighties and most of the nineties would take half that time to resolve. We have had peaks and troughs for a decade now, the difference is as time progresses the troughs are shallowed and the peaks reached are higher.

One of the greatest lessons Welsh rugby needs to adhere to in all aspects is patience.

Are you George Bush?

This is just a joke by the way

Steve Hansen said: "We have always known this game will be a fiercely contested match. The Welsh team in the last 12 months have been Grand Slam winners and 2011 Rugby World Cup semifinalists and we have known since the World Cup that this would be the game that they would be targeting in this Autumn Series, so any recent performances or results won't have any bearing on this match.

"We are all excited by what comes with this challenge, along with the fact that we will be playing in one of the world's greatest rugby stadiums."

Good on the former Welsh coach to offer us an element of self respect in a time of need.

Cyril on 606v2 wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:
Good read cheers for that... Interesting points raised, none undiscussed a million times over in the recent few months, but it is the future we want to see in the here and now.

We have to face facts that no matter what the WRU or the Regions do, whether tomorrow morning, by Xmas or in the distant future will make little impact to what isn't happening now.

This weekend the team is basically what we played in the Six Nations and World Cup, Adam Jones absence is huge as is second choice Craig Mitchell, so is AWJ. Though form has been the issue not lack of talent, these players have all proved they can perform at the required level, we were all hoping that they would exceed that level, not sustain it or worse still under-acheive.

It was said a long time ago, by Gwyn Jones as well I think, that the inept leadership of the WRU through the seventies, eighties and most of the nineties would take half that time to resolve. We have had peaks and troughs for a decade now, the difference is as time progresses the troughs are shallowed and the peaks reached are higher.

One of the greatest lessons Welsh rugby needs to adhere to in all aspects is patience.

Are you George Bush?

This is just a joke by the way

You have been warned not to correspond with me by the mods. You should heed their advice.

You're not supposed to correspond with me either.

We're both in trouble

Come on, pal. Time to bury the hatchet. 606v2 seems a pretty chilled place at the moment with nostalgia and all sorts of bridges being rebuilt.

Truce?

Cyril on 606v2 wrote:You're not supposed to correspond with me either.

We're both in trouble

Come on, pal. Time to bury the hatchet. 606v2 seems a pretty chilled place at the moment with nostalgia and all sorts of bridges being rebuilt.

Truce?

You are lucky to be here, they all know full well you are a previously multiply banned user. If you want to use this forum stick to the rules.

How about you just take the mods advice and not respond to any of my posts. That will be fine.

No further discussion.

IronMike wrote:I think it was Paul O'Connell who once described Ireland during their run of bad form as "A good side playing badly, rather than a bad side".

Yeah but the run of bad form hasn't ended yet.....

rodders wrote:

IronMike wrote:I think it was Paul O'Connell who once described Ireland during their run of bad form as "A good side playing badly, rather than a bad side".

Yeah but the run of bad form hasn't ended yet.....

It does end sometimes mate... Maybe Wales and ireland are not so different...? Which adds a decent counter to Gwyn Jones points above, where he lays the blame of Wales not playing well at the hands of Regional form in the HEC.

If we lose today are we in crisis...?