Wales vs Samoa KO 19:30 Fri 16th Nov - Match Thread/Build Up etc....

[HERSH]

First topic message reminder :

WALES V Samoa

Venue: Millennium Stadium Cardiff Date: Friday, 16 November Kick-off: 19:30 GMT

Coverage: Live on BBC One Wales & online; live on S4C; live commentary on BBC Radio Wales & online; live commentary on Radio Cymru

Seeing as no one has started a thread yet I thought I would.

Enjoy the discussion.

Leigh Halfpenny
Alex Cuthbert
Ashley Beck
Jamie Roberts
George North
Dan Biggar
Mike Phillips
Paul James
Richard Hibbard
Aaron Jarvis
Bradley Davies
Ian Evans
Ryan Jones (Capt)
Justin Tipuric
Toby Faletau

REPLACEMENTS:
Ken Owens, Gethin Jenkins, Scott Andrews, Luke Charteris, Sam Warburton, Tavis Knoyle, Rhys Priestland, Scott Williams

Samoa:
F Autagavaia (Northland)
P Perez (Eastern Province)
G Pisi (Northampton)
P Williams (Stade Francais)
D Lemi (Worcester, captain)
T Pisi (Suntory)
K Fotuali'i (Ospreys)
S Taulafo (Wasps)
O Avei (Bordeaux-Begles)
C Johnston (Toulouse)
D Leo (Perpignan)
T Paulo (North Harbour)
O Treviranus (London Irish)
M Fa'asavalu (Harlequins)
T Tuifua (Newcastle)

Replacements: T Paulo (Clermont Auvergne), V Afatia (Agen), J Johnston (Harlequins), F Lemalu (Mont de Marsan), T Fomai (Hawke's Bay), J Su'a (Tasman), J Leota (Sale), R Lilomaiava (Laulii).

[rodders]

Strong looking Welsh side there. Don't listen to the haters guys...Wales by 18 ....

[Liam]

I fancy us for this. Much better selection with form players coming in. I like Beck's selection, Williams unlucky to miss out but we need Roberts to get game time for the big games vs NZ/AUS. Wales by 12.

[munkian]

Beck worries me as he's defensively weak (but then so was Hook)

I thought Charteris would start over Bradley, I just hope he keeps his cool.

[majesticimperialman]

Bringing Jamie Roberts back in so soon after his concussion. Do you realy think it is a good idea?

Surely it would of been better not only for Wales but also for JR to get a proper rest. I guess it is a question who else do Wales have to cover for Jamie Roberts.

Do you think that this team is a stronger tean than the one that played last Saturday?

I guess we will find out on friday night. I am Glad for Biggar to be given a chance. And also glad that Warburton has been dropped aswell.

Best of luck for friday.

[TJ1]

Whats happend to JD2?

[maestegmafia]

Jd2 has a groin injury

[Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler]

If Samoa lose this can we blame it on the extra preperation time the Welsh have had?

Honestly its a tough one to call. Wales should win, but Samoa came close last time they played and frankly after last week and more withdrawls this is a very good time to be playing the fixture for them.

[TJ1]

Jd2 has a groin injury

ta

[bedfordwelsh]

Is Rhys Gill injured?

He has been and is on the recovery road so maybe that why wasn't named in the squad

[Morgannwg]

It's okay TJ nobody cares what you have to say.

Oh dear - I really did upset you simply by giving my opinion and challenging you to back your up

come on - its not that bad - and others agree with me. Hows about letting it drop? Ta

[Morgannwg]

I doubt very much that Gethin is being dropped, what did he do wrong? This is just sensible front row rotation and I would be amazed if he didn't start next week.

He was slow, unfit, went backwards in the scrum, not effective enough at the breakdown or tackle area and just all around poor; a clear sign of lack of rugby. And what do you know he's been on Toulon's bench most of the season.

[glamorganalun]

I am a lot happier and taken back that the Wales management making so many changes from their pet players to play this game. The question is are the Wales management fielding what they consider (in their minds) a weaker team prior to playing the AB's and then going back to their first team i.e., the out of form team they put out against Argentina! Just posing my cynical view on this management.

[wales606]

I am a lot happier and taken back that the Wales management making so many changes from their pet players to play this game. The question is are the Wales management fielding what they consider (in their minds) a weaker team prior to playing the AB's and then going back to their first team i.e., the out of form team they put out against Argentina! Just posing my cynical view on this management.

That's what i'm worried about. If this team performs well, i'm still afraid we will see a half dozen changes before NZ that won't be for the better.

[glamorganalun]

I think this team is too good to lose this game and we have a captain that will make changes to chase the game if Wales fall behind, I am worried about the bench with Preistland, Knoyle and worse of all Andrews and can't beleive Hook is not covering 10 says a lot.

[Guest]

I know Andrews, why is this lad still getting called up? Bevington is 10x the player

[thebluesmancometh]

I'm not sure why many people are so shocked by no Hook, he offers little from the bench except lesser positional cover.

RP can cover 10 and FB better than Hook and Williams will cover 12/13 better!

[Guest]

Fickle bunch the Welsh supporting public,
Lets remember the last time Ryan Jones was captain and Biggar had his chance to shine?
We scrapped a draw.

[thebluesmancometh]

view

Andrews hasn't looked bad in the recent games he's featured in.

Not sure why a Welsh international is the place for him to keep getting gametime to help the fitness but hey ho Warbs and Roberts did it last week

[wales606]

I know Andrews, why is this lad still getting called up? Bevington is 10x the player

Bevington is not 10 times the players, neither is he a THP

[munkian]

The draw was questionable, ok we werent great but the entire fijian front row should have been sin binned

[Guest]

Yep Poite has a lot to answer for but Ryan didn't pick the team up like people are suggesting he will and Biggar drifted more than dingy lost at sea.

[wales606]

Yep Poite has a lot to answer for but Ryan didn't pick the team up like people are suggesting he will and Biggar drifted more than dingy lost at sea.

That was back during Ryan's slump in form and Biggar wasn't given a platform to play off.

[Guest]

I'm sorry but the jury is still out and i think Samoa will win.

[Wi11]

Samoa are missing a few star names but still put out a strong side

F Autagavaia (Northland); P Perez (Eastern Province), G Pisi (Northampton), P Williams (Stade Francais), D Lemi (Worcester, captain); T Pisi (Suntory), K Fotuali'i (Ospreys); S Taulafo (Wasps), O Avei (Bordeaux-Begles), C Johnston (Toulouse), D Leo (Perpignan), F Paulo (North Harbour), O Treviranus (London Irish), M Fa'asavalu (Harlequins), T Tuifua (Newcastle).

Replacements: T Paulo (Clermont Auvergne), V Afatia (Agen), J Johnston (Harlequins), F Lemalu (Mont de Marsan), T Fomai (Hawke's Bay), J Su'a (Tasman), J Leota (Sale), R Lilomaiava (Laulii)

In the scrum they will hope to at least hold their own against an inexperienced Welsh line-up. Retention of possession against Canada was excellent. Expect their attacking game to involve sucking the defence in with strong runners around the fringes / centres before sending it wide to their flyers, possibly via Tusi Pisi's accurate crosskicks. Defence is a strength and they will want to keep Wales to a total in the teens or twenties.

I think people should cut the carp about this being a game for Wales not to lose. Samoa are a serious opponent and may be capable of winning even if Wales play well.

[flyhalffactory]

I think this team is too good to lose this game and we have a captain that will make changes to chase the game if Wales fall behind, I am worried about the bench with Preistland, Knoyle and worse of all Andrews and can't beleive Hook is not covering 10 says a lot.

Samoa are going to smiling at the the welsh selection

Spine of the side

8 - Faletau will face off against Tuifua 29 yrs old at 6ft 4in and 19.5st is going to test the young dragon, I think he has to step up this weeekend or Wales will be in trouble. Personally Ryan Jones should be at 8 with Shingle the better option at 6

2nd Row - Evans and Davies combo is very poor, no turn of speed, no industry at the loose or breadown, and Charteris having a great season with Perpignan on the bench??

Centres - Beck v Pisi...... Oh my the revolving door against a player who on his day can destroy the best of centres why oh why didnt Howley pick Beck at 12 where he wont be full on contact. Your best defensive centre Scott Williams out and your worst defensive centre starting

Poor selection Howley, "Horses For Courses" sir not rolling over due to public demand

[thebluesmancometh]

Lots of good points made above, Samoa were very savvy against Canada, and didn't play the PI way at all, they were very controlled!!!

And Howleys bowing to pressure is very dissapointing no matter what excuses he makes!!

Little point though, if Wales turn up from minute 1 and play well they win. I just hope they do.

[gavstar]

vttgym ,the biggar you are talking about has improved all round more than any other player, lets hope he is ALLOWED to play and not threated with a life time wales ban if he sees a chance to go off plan.

i cant see why beck has been put where williams should be, beck should be 12

whatever happens, ''the management '' will have their favs for the next 2 games.

[samuraidragon]

Agree Charteris should be a starter. With Charteris there we will win lineouts, which allows Biggar to kick for touch instead of kicking away possession to the opposition back 3 as we been doing for years.

FHF's comment about Faletau may be valid, but I would pick him all the same as the alternative combos are worse.

The bench is a worry.

[Ozzy3213]

really looking forward to this game. Wales have to stand up and be counted. Should be a cracker.

[majesticimperialman]

Can some one help me out here?

Having last week against Argentina. And then if they lose this week.

How will this effect their Rugby World Rankins position?

[wales606]

I think this team is too good to lose this game and we have a captain that will make changes to chase the game if Wales fall behind, I am worried about the bench with Preistland, Knoyle and worse of all Andrews and can't beleive Hook is not covering 10 says a lot.

Samoa are going to smiling at the the welsh selection

Spine of the side

8 - Faletau will face off against Tuifua 29 yrs old at 6ft 4in and 19.5st is going to test the young dragon, I think he has to step up this weeekend or Wales will be in trouble. Personally Ryan Jones should be at 8 with Shingle the better option at 6

2nd Row - Evans and Davies combo is very poor, no turn of speed, no industry at the loose or breadown, and Charteris having a great season with Perpignan on the bench??

Centres - Beck v Pisi...... Oh my the revolving door against a player who on his day can destroy the best of centres why oh why didnt Howley pick Beck at 12 where he wont be full on contact. Your best defensive centre Scott Williams out and your worst defensive centre starting

Poor selection Howley, "Horses For Courses" sir not rolling over due to public demand

Some pretty harsh comments.

Faletau played well last week, and when playing well he is a match for most players bar the top 3 no8s perhaps (see his performances in the world cup for example)

"Evans and Davies combo is very poor, no turn of speed, no industry at the loose or breadown" - no pace or use in the loose or at the breakdown? Not sure what you are talking about there, do they only show up for the set pieces? I would say that Davies is one of our strongest ball carriers while Evans is a strong tackler and works well are securing breakdown ball.

Beck has played 3 games for Wales, the only full test he started for was against Australia. I would be more worried about the Aus backs than some Samoan crashballs. Beck's defence isn't his strongest characteristic, but it isn't a huge weakness - Jamie Roberts wasn't a brilliant tackler when Shaun Edwards got his hands on him.

[Casartelli]

With this line up anything could happen. Lose by 20, draw, or win by 20.

Howley's transported us back to Welsh rugby 1990s style. Roll the dice, sit back and enjoy the unpredictable roller-coaster ride.

[Higher_Ground]

Fhf, you must admit that a lot of your picks for last weekend, simply flopped, exactly like they have been doing all season. As for 'revolving door' Beck, that's another cliche that's developed on here, not sure why. Your man Turnbull missed four tackles last weekend, after we were told he was going to tackle Argentina to a standstill, so I'll take my chances with Beck. If he makes one line break, he'll have done 100% better than Scott Williams did.

[Higher_Ground]

I'm sorry but the jury is still out and i think Samoa will win.

Well, that sounds like the jury is in?

[flyhalffactory]

Fhf, you must admit that a lot of your picks for last weekend, simply flopped, exactly like they have been doing all season. As for 'revolving door' Beck, that's another cliche that's developed on here, not sure why. Your man Turnbull missed four tackles last weekend, after we were told he was going to tackle Argentina to a standstill, so I'll take my chances with Beck. If he makes one line break, he'll have done 100% better than Scott Williams did.

What rediculous biased statements this is the Wales cause not regional immaturity, you really need to watch the welsh games, most posters said that Scott Williams had an overall good game.... do you know how many yards he made of all the backs, if you did you would realise how silly that statement is. If I had to put one centre against Pisi then I would choose Williams over Beck

My man "Turnbull"............ you might be regionally biased, but for me as long as both 'burghs are doing well then Scotland I am happy. But to get back to "form" Turnbull statisically has made more tackles than any other back row forward, he also had a serious knee injury from the 5th minute of the game so I would say that impeded his impact on the game. I also advocated that Biggar should have started not because he is an Osprey but because Priestland is so off form. Beck hasnt been the form centre as certain posters have been saying on this forum, and its no good making one break and leaving three go past you.

I have said poor selections and have also provided my rationale on why I think they are poor

I would be more concerned if Denton will improve on his dire club form for Scotland than Howely making some poor combo selections

[Higher_Ground]

Scott Williams had a solid, if unspectacular game, but for my money seriously lacks peripheral vision, which isn't a great quality for a centre. As for regional bias, you might recall my original team, posted way back on another thread (which you also didn't agree with by the way) included Jonathan Davies, Leigh Halfpenny, Alex Cuthbert, Liam Williams, Samson Lee and Aaron shingler.
I was just picking who I considered to be the best side available. The coaches were wrong, they know they were wrong.

[bedfordwelsh]

I can understand and agree with the comments on Andrews but why have some compared him with Bevington?

Bevington is a L/Head not a T/head for me I would have given Samson Lee a bench spot otherwise why pick him in squad as it is very unlikely he will figure in the next two tests

[Luckless Pedestrian]

Others have already mentioned this, but the more I think about it, the more I think that a lot of these changes were planned before the Autumn internationals began. The coaching team expected to win against Argentina and intended to rotate the squad against Samoa. It's lunacy, when all of these matches are crucial and Samoa are one of the toughest sides you can face, but I bet Tipuric, Biggar and others were always going to play in this one, and they haven't been selected now because Howley's suddenly realised that they're the form players in their positions.

[Biltong]

Wales should win this, their structue alone should pull them through, I expect Samoa to give them everything in the first half, but eventually organisation will triumph.

Wales by 5-10, but it could be 10-15, or maybe 15-20.

I don't know, OK!

[bedfordwelsh]

LP,

You're right and I have said the same, it is being reported that Warburton has been dropped but I doubt he would have played even if he had a stormer against the Pumas.

We always make changes for the Friday night game

[bedfordwelsh]

The litmus test will come after Fridays game, if the likes of James,Biggar and Tipuric have big games then we will see how much balls Howleys has.

I fully expect to see at least Jenkins and Warburton start against NZ despite the performances of James and Tipuric.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

It's funny the difference between Gethin Jenkins as he is and Gethin Jenkins as people imagine him to be. Go back a few seasons and yes, he was excellent in the loose and won plenty of turnovers to boot; but he really is being capped on reputation now.

[bedfordwelsh]

James and even Duncan Jones (1st choice in 05 before injury) before him were both better technical scrummagers than Jenkins but it was his workrate around the park that got him the nod.

Now that workrate has dropped, mostly due to the fact he isn't starting regulalry for Toulon then for me James should get the nod.

[The Bachelor]

Wales should win this, their structue alone should pull them through, I expect Samoa to give them everything in the first half, but eventually organisation will triumph.

Wales by 5-10, but it could be 10-15, or maybe 15-20.

I don't know, OK!

haha - you'd expect a backlash from Wales after the last result, but it is vs Samoa who they always seem to struggle against....and on Friday; a day they always seem to struggle to play on.....

[HERSH]

It's funny the difference between Gethin Jenkins as he is and Gethin Jenkins as people imagine him to be. Go back a few seasons and yes, he was excellent in the loose and won plenty of turnovers to boot; but he really is being capped on reputation now.

Stand by your man
Give him two arms to cling to
And something warm to come to
when nights are cold and lonely

[Luckless Pedestrian]

That's your karaoke song, is it, Hersh?

[HERSH]

No, my ones 'Bat Out of hell'

I did that one on the team bus many a time.

[flyhalffactory]

Scott Williams had a solid, if unspectacular game, but for my money seriously lacks peripheral vision, which isn't a great quality for a centre. As for regional bias, you might recall my original team, posted way back on another thread (which you also didn't agree with by the way) included Jonathan Davies, Leigh Halfpenny, Alex Cuthbert, Liam Williams, Samson Lee and Aaron shingler.
I was just picking who I considered to be the best side available. The coaches were wrong, they know they were wrong.

Apologies for that mate...... tad too reactive in my comments.

For my money I seem to recall many many posters called Jon Davies "a carthorse", "no vision", "crashball thug centre", and that he wasnt fit enough to lace the boots of James Hook the "sublimely talented centre" only a few seasons back and yet here we are 2012 and the welsh contingent are bemoaning your most creative centre is injured whist admitting that Hook just cant cut it consistently at centre on the international stage. I think Williams is at that stage on the international arena, personally whilst he currently is regarded as a defensive centre he can and does make destructive runs

Purely unbiased of course .......... I believe that the spine of your side lacks balance, the locks under pressure could give pens away, your 8 whilst he makes many tackles has to stop the opposing player frim offloading the ball, and as Roberts was taken off with a bashed bonce you would need a centre who can cover his derriere against some hard-nosed opposition and I just dont think thats Becks forte.

I think we both want the same thing, you are a passionate countryman, and me as your passionate neighbour up north

[RubyGuby]

Can people just accept that Beck is given an opportunity as opposed to Scott Williams being "dropped" - God! the neurosis on here is mind boggling on times. Howley picked a shoite team last week, most of it this week seems more than reasonable apart from Andrews IMO -

[Higher_Ground]

Indeed FH, Faletau has to protect the ball better, but when he gets into gear, it's a sight to behold. I don't think Scott Williams lacks the ability to do anything, but he's a ball on one hand sort of player at the minute. His wonder try against England, was actually a saving grace for him, because he'd really failed to look outside him to put a two man overlap away for the try a few minutes beforehand. I would have been just as happy with him playing alongside Beck though.
I hope you get to see the best of Beck, he's all knees and elbows, and seems to be like a magnet for defenders, he's actually the real deal, and you can hold me to that.
You're right about JD, he has evolved his game to the point that he's one of the first names on the team sheet, there's subtlety, and a left footed kicking game that wasn't evident two years ago.
Oh, and I don't necessarily think our lock pairing need to be under pressure to give away penalties.

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