Is Deans under pressue?

The Wallabies this year has not been performing well. To be honest, it is almost like the dark days at the end of Eddie Jones, though then at least the backs ran some pretty patterns.
Oh I think we all know about the injuries, and Deans does well to get a side out. But is his job under pressure?

I think the pressure is not just the results, but the ( seemingly ) lack of passion on the field, as well as stories of disharmony in the squad.

The disharmony stories obviously needs to be looked into deeper, and hopefully from an independent observer. If there is general squad dissatisfaction on Dean's management style/tactical direction, then yes I do think there will be pressure on him. If it is a couple of prima donnas sowing dissatisfaction in the squad then get rid of the couple.

I think, for me anyway, not speaking of all aussies, except for the last 2 games in the 4Ns, I am disappointed in lack of spirit/commitment in the team on the pitch. We have lost many times to the boks and kiwis before, but I always felt there was some fighting spirit in the side, and we lost to a better side. Now we seem to be just going thru the motions.

Do other people think there’re pressures on Deans, and if so is it justified?

Though in my heart I know the side wil bounce back soon, maybe even Saturday. They are as capable of scoring 5 tries against sides on their day, as they are to conceed. This post is meant to be a discussion post, quiet at work today. for me the Wallabies stil th emost exciting side to watch!

I'm not sure of the statistic but I read that Australia has only managed 12 tries in 12 tests this year. That's doesn't exactly suggest an "exciting" brand of rugby? I reckon any side that doesn't perform to expectations places the coach under pressure - so yes, Deans is under pressure.

Not at the mo they are not, exciting that is, but even last season they were, and certainly going back. Though of course can just be my biases..

Last summer I thought Australia were genuine contenders to win the RWC. Right now you would say they would struggle to finish runner-up in a two person beauty contest.

Looking at the last 12 months:

http://www.espnscrum.com/statsguru/rugby/team/6.html?class=1;filter=advanced;orderby=tries;spanmax1=15+Nov+2012;spanmin1=15+Nov+2011;spanval1=span;template=results;type=team


13 matches, 7 wins and 15 tries.
Take out the 4 matches with Wales and you have 9 matches, 3 wins and 5 tries!!!


So yes Deans should be feeling some pressure

OzT wrote:Not at the mo they are not, exciting that is, but even last season they were, and certainly going back. Though of course can just be my biases..

Well one thing I've noticed Oz is the Aussie mid-field aren't posing much threat and whereas I remember Beale being amazing at FB nothing much is happening from the 10 channel. All those injuries have got to make a difference though. Good luck against England -let's see if you can srummage them off the park

LondonTiger wrote:Last summer I thought Australia were genuine contenders to win the RWC. Right now you would say they would struggle to finish runner-up in a two person beauty contest.

Looking at the last 12 months:

http://www.espnscrum.com/statsguru/rugby/team/6.html?class=1;filter=advanced;orderby=tries;spanmax1=15+Nov+2012;spanmin1=15+Nov+2011;spanval1=span;template=results;type=team


13 matches, 7 wins and 15 tries.
Take out the 4 matches with Wales and you have 9 matches, 3 wins and 5 tries!!!


So yes Deans should be feeling some pressure

Why? How many Aus players are injured? Like twenty something. Its a remarkable achievement that they got a draw and maybe should have even beat the ABs.
Along with a clean sweap over the GS champions. He has done well imo given the injuries.

Oh yes he has done well, specially as Oz have not many backup players of quality. I think though there may still be some players in the squad not pulling their weight, and it seems to have filtered thru the side.

The injuries not Deans fault, but surely the tactics are? Since the 1st game against Scotland, and all thru the Welsh games, I thought the side was playing to a paln, and that plan seems to be 'no running'. Then again the number of dropped balls did not help!!

Against Argentina and the last ABs game it did look like the side was getting back together again. Dazzling runs wil come once confidence comes back... and Beale goes back to fb, JOC returns and Pocock recovers from his injuries.

This Saturday I think may be a crunch match for the side's makup.

Always wonder if a new head may revitalize the side, or would it be like when we had Connolly after Jones didn't make any difference.

As much time as i spend thinking about the Wallabies Oz I can never convince myself we can lay the blame at his feet as much as it happens.  It's been a disappointing year, but if he is at fault, is it his fault entirely? I don't think it can be said it is.

We been very hard hit by injury, and on top of that we also need to be realistic about what we have and don't have.  We have better depth than given credit for, but we need better options at 6 and 8, a tighthead we can rely on week in and week out, and to settle on a centre pairing.  All our players need to figure out how to perform to a more consistent level.

The test against Wales in two weeks will be our last one before the Lions series, so even if we installed a new coach there is no opportunity anymore to turn the ship in a new direction.  We just have to hope that bringing key men back in will help recreate the structure they need to play some better rugby, and that players step up to fill those holes.

The Twickenham test is my favourite of the year, but id be happy for this to be the last one for 2012. Start again next year, have an almighty crack at the Lions, then move on to a new era.

Strange thinking back the last Lions tour was the beginning of the end of the golden side of Eales. So yip booma, maybe this Lions tour will be the beginning of the next golden generation??


... hmm yeah I too can see the pigs flying......

I think we'll probably win this Saturday, well I hope so as I got them down to win on the perdiction game here, but for sure we good just as easily be on another tonking.

I dunno OzT. Remember McCaw said he thinks you guys are at your most dangerous when you seem vulnerable. You guys are more than good enough to cause England an almighty shock. On form your backline runs rings around theirs creativity wise and it's just a matter of clicking. All this English press would serve as great motivation too mate.

Also remember the 89 Lions series led into the great side of 90-91 and they happened to win a very important trophy (especially if you don't give a toss what Luyt said LOL).

OzT wrote:The Wallabies this year has not been performing well. To be honest, it is almost like the dark days at the end of Eddie Jones, though then at least the backs ran some pretty patterns.
Oh I think we all know about the injuries, and Deans does well to get a side out. But is his job under pressure?

I think the pressure is not just the results, but the ( seemingly ) lack of passion on the field, as well as stories of disharmony in the squad.

The disharmony stories obviously needs to be looked into deeper, and hopefully from an independent observer. If there is general squad dissatisfaction on Dean's management style/tactical direction, then yes I do think there will be pressure on him. If it is a couple of prima donnas sowing dissatisfaction in the squad then get rid of the couple.

I think, for me anyway, not speaking of all aussies, except for the last 2 games in the 4Ns, I am disappointed in lack of spirit/commitment in the team on the pitch. We have lost many times to the boks and kiwis before, but I always felt there was some fighting spirit in the side, and we lost to a better side. Now we seem to be just going thru the motions.

Do other people think there’re pressures on Deans, and if so is it justified?

Though in my heart I know the side wil bounce back soon, maybe even Saturday. They are as capable of scoring 5 tries against sides on their day, as they are to conceed. This post is meant to be a discussion post, quiet at work today. for me the Wallabies stil th emost exciting side to watch!

There's an interesting parallel being made on another site between Australia and Scotland.

Scotland were once a mighty and proud rugby nation who capped of their time in the sun by winning the final 5 nations tournament prior to expansion. Australia too won the last tri-nations prior to expansion.

Scotland have slowly drifted down the rankings to the point where they are really a second tier nation in all but name. I never get the feeling they will win "on their day". The point is made that the truth is that Scotland just doesn't have the infrastructure or interest in rugby to keep up with professional structures in countries that do.

There are many similarities with Australia here - no genuine domestic competition, lack of player development, lack of coaches and ultimately a lack of interest.

We could well be seeing the beginnings of the slide of Australian rugby into irrelevance as I've predicted before.

The fact that there aren't journlists lined up around the block to take pot shots at Deans speaks volumes, the Australian public seem to be shrugging and moving on. The new "stars" of Australian rugby are largely ex-New Zealanders or coming in from the Islands.

Other than the slightly depleted side we sent to SA last year Oz are still the only side to beat or draw with the ABs last 2 years (2x Brissy and Honk Kong) so Deans has that in his favour.

I dont think hes under pressure as hes past the point where he should have been dropped on results- other than a skewed 3N last year hes completely failed results wise. so why drop him now cos hes losing?

Theres more to the Oz problem than Deans and I think theyve decided to stay with him till they sort the issues around him out- injuries, players coming through. Not a Deans fan but the issues they have arent all his doing. So better the devil you know for now I think is the thinking.

I am sure Deans is under pressure, is it fair though?

That I think is the real question.

You would normally criticise a coach for selections, game plan and how he manages his troops.

You can't however blame him for the inconsistent performances of the players, how does a player go from good one week to bad the next week?

Surely that is not the coach's fault.

If they were consistently bad you could say maybe it is the coach, but not when one week they draw with the All Blacks, next week they lose miserably to the Boks, then come back to beat Argentina etc.

The players seem to have little to no passion and some look uniterested.

If the Aussies are complaining about Deans, how about we'll swap him for Kidney. I think that would open a few eyes.

Question:- Is Deans under pressure?

Answer:- Only from David Campese !

Before pointing out the obvious a few Stats,Australia have appeared in 3 RWC finals winning 2.Have 3 Super titles[in the Pro era]and 3 -3Ns titles,a plus score versus ALL sides bar the All Blacks and the Boks.BUT only an overall win stat of 52.3%.
That is inferior to NZ`s 75%+.Boks 62%+,and Argentina[3rd most successful side],France,and England and are marginally better than Wales.
During the Amateur period whenever they developed good players they mostly went League for cash.
By tradition they had adequate tight forwards especially Front Row,plus brilliant innovative backs.
Today at FULL STRENGTH they have a solid if not dominating Scrum,a good Lineout,outstanding loose Forwards and brilliant Backs.
It should be remembered that Super Rugby[S6 on]was an Australian innovation
and early on dominated by them.
Except in era 1991 and around 1999-2001 they haven`t really been a dominant force.The Reds success though excellent is helped by the now set up of Super Rugby.

Australian Rugby Union is third behind Australian Rules and League,unlike SA and NZ.Has no equivalent to ITM/Currie Cup so there is no depth.
Test squads are built around the best Super sides for SA/NZ that is seldom a problem.For Australia it is realistically the can only at best support 3 not 5 sides.
They are spreading themselves to thin stars are playing for the Force or Rebels
that are among the weakest franchises.
Now lets look at Deans charge sheet,built a dynasty at the Crusaders with a reputation for bringing on young players.With John Mitchell for about 3 years
part of one of the 2 best teams in the World.
Failed to win RWC,dumped by NZ standard practice,only one 3Ns win 2010 also
only one Super title.Not won the Bledisloe in his era ,and seldom beaten the All Blacks in that era[who has on a regular basis]
Accused of being dictatorial as a Coach? most of best were Vic Cavanagh,Fred the Needle etc.
Now the defence he has built sides that have competed and on occasions beaten the best.Been IRB number 2 or 3 side for most of his reign developed many good young players.
With better Goalkicking they would have been a more successful side but decision making .By players on the field cost OZ several games too.
This year he has used over 40 players due to injury,several who would`nt get near a full strength side.
David Campese bemoaned the lack of skills in the modern game compared with his day.Bear in mind he himself was an incredibly skilled and talented player.
Then he says the current team can`t even pass or catch a ball properly,whos fault is that?
Graham Henry when he started Coaching Wales that Basic Skills learnt a club or school level in NZ.Was`nt there for Wales test squad players and he had to work on them.
Heyenke Meyer pointed out it is NOT up to the National Coach but should be endemic at Test level in the players allready.
At the start of the season pundits were saying OZ would only win 1 match in the 4Ns they won 3.After losing to Scotland they still beat Wales 3zip,and drew with a lack lustre AB performance in the 3rd Bledisloe.
Deans has picked teams this year and said go out and do your best with mixed results.One of which is NEVER right them off before a match it may come back to bite you.
IF Deans goes would anyone else do better in the current circunstances 2013 will be the litmus test.With O`Connor,Genia,Horwill,Pocock,possibly Cooper back in the mix.

No doubt there is huge pressure on Deans, but he's one of those guys that will just do anything for his team right up to the day he is fired.

Ye old faithfull.

The sports programs here are saying things like "... Dean writes of the loss last weekend" and says "the Wallabies will bounce back." That's all we want to hear. Deflects attention away and it's his way of dealing with pressure... and maybe healing some wounds too. There's nothing wrong with that.

Although what Kiwi says - Anton Oliver "never understood a word he said" ... maybe that same laid back Cantabrian approach works against him with some players but I'm sure there are other current Wallaby players who would greatly respect him. He's all we've got right now - let him get through this tour first.

I'm quietly confident about today's match. The Wallabies just have to find that 'switch'.... a bit of all-or-nothing is needed. If that backfires initially and they are behind on the scoreboard early, then all we can hope for is a miracle at some stage to change the tone of the game and somehow try and graft their way into the England 22 and get over that bloody line!

I feel if they get a sniff they could suddenly find (at least) a better groove than last week against France.

They have to perform much better than that and the question remains: Do they have 'it' still or are they a struggling bunch of players with doubts about their own performance and feeling the pressure of expectations from Australian rugby fans?

Linebreaker

I am sure we all know that Australia are prettty much handicapped with a few vital injuries at the moment, in a few months time when everyone is back on their feet, the Wallabies will be a danger to any International team again.

Good win for Deans today.

According to most Australian supporters nothing to do with him.

The criticism is getting rather pathetic.

Linebreaker wrote:Ye old faithfull.

The sports programs here are saying things like "... Dean writes of the loss last weekend" and says "the Wallabies will bounce back." That's all we want to hear. Deflects attention away and it's his way of dealing with pressure... and maybe healing some wounds too. There's nothing wrong with that.

Although what Kiwi says - Anton Oliver "never understood a word he said" ... maybe that same laid back Cantabrian approach works against him with some players but I'm sure there are other current Wallaby players who would greatly respect him. He's all we've got right now - let him get through this tour first.

I'm quietly confident about today's match. The Wallabies just have to find that 'switch'.... a bit of all-or-nothing is needed. If that backfires initially and they are behind on the scoreboard early, then all we can hope for is a miracle at some stage to change the tone of the game and somehow try and graft their way into the England 22 and get over that bloody line!

I feel if they get a sniff they could suddenly find (at least) a better groove than last week against France.

They have to perform much better than that and the question remains: Do they have 'it' still or are they a struggling bunch of players with doubts about their own performance and feeling the pressure of expectations from Australian rugby fans?

Linebreaker, thats a pretty good post considering you wrote it yesterday, I particularly like the opening paragraph. come on Aussie come on.

Thanks Laurie. I'm not one of those described by Biltong above.
I was surprised at their bouncing back with attitude and pleased with the outcome of course. They did find 'it'.
Now, they just have to treat Italy & Wales with respect and try to keep up that same intensity and confidence.

LB

If you guys beat Italy and Wales with the team youve got, then Julia will have Dingo taking the oath, learning Adv Aus Fair.and driving a commodore before xmas.

Pressure? What pressure..

Morning Biltong, how's it going? Good tour for you guys. 100% without breaking sweat.

Your line "The players seem to have little to no passion and some look uniterested." is what I have been saying for a while this year with our sides, though after the last bok's game and the Argintina's match I thought at last the side seems to be fighting for each other again, even though you beat us.

France was a disappointment but I put that down to fatigue really. I think today since news broke Cooper may go back to RL is good news for Deans, the bloke does the best with the players he has at his disposal but QC I feel; undermined him a bit, being the star of the side he puts Deans under heapsa pressure, results not withstanding.

Now i think he can build a side away from the old guard. The injuries has thrown up a couple of new players that I think will go places, and maybe the end of a few players who were stalwarts in the side but sowed seeds of discontments.

Hooper and Cummins I think are a great find, good ole Sharpe last few games, ignore France, has in my eyes really grown in stature, though maybe unfortunately now there will be no place for Drew Mitchell.

Hope the side stays focused for the Italian game and then Wales.

As for pressure, I really think with QC probably now out the way Deans can build the side up again. I admit at one stage feeling like we were repeating the end of Jones career syndrom again, but hopefully all be good now, and he will hand over a winning side to his successor after 2015, and a win!!

aucklandlaurie wrote:
LB

If you guys beat Italy and Wales with the team youve got, then Julia will have Dingo taking the oath, learning Adv Aus Fair.and driving a commodore before xmas.

Pressure? What pressure..

Never!!! Even EJ never sang the south africian anthem when he was with them, no kiwi will ever think about singing that!. But come on, Deans's a kiwi, over there the Commodore hasn't arrived yet, Kingswoods still king!!!

Morning OzT, congratulations on your team's win. showed lots more passion and intent, Hooper had a great game.

Yes, I think considering all , it is probably best for OZ without Cooper and his antics.

Cheers Biltong, yip for sure I really felt good wen we held out and won at the end.

But isn't it exciting though when QC tries and gets away with something outrageous on the field? Will miss the excitiment he can bring, but unlike Campo, whom I really admired even though he did many a daft thing on the pitch, and I think we can say they were both mavericks on the field, when QC mucks up it really affected the side, being a number 10.

Going ahead for us think I rather Barnes at 10 and Beala back at FB.

TO be honest I would like to see Beale at 10 for a whole season, with maybe Barnes at 12.

I too thought Beale at 10 would be a good experiment, but I think we have done that now, he was more distructive collecting kicks and running it back, besides Barnes's a known proven, if unspectecular, quality at number 10.

Licking my lips at the English/bok game this weekend! That will be a good one, always love that fixture with both sides quite committed to the power game without backing down expected. Similar to Samoa/Tonga games, but probably to a higher standard of play and nous.

I expect Meyer to go into his shell for this game.

I expect Morne steyn back at 10, and we will play the territorial game and punch forwards the whole day long.

If Australia are to become the best team in the world again like they were in the early 1990's, they have to find the very big athletic forwards like the 6ft 6 Garrick Morgan, 6ft 7 John Eales, and 6ft 9 Warwick Waugh. At the moment the current Wallaby pack looks a bit short on both power and height. In contrast, the All Blacks now seem to be producing a healthy number of young athletic second rows who are very tall such as Whitelock and Romano.

Can't go much wrong with the tried and tested (winning) ways there Biltong...

Locks would sure be good for us gboycottnut, never confident in out lineouts, a good backup, or even just consistent performing front row would go amiss either.

Heck, we loaned the ABs back thorn and look how good he became!!! LOL!

OzT wrote:Locks would sure be good for us gboycottnut, never confident in out lineouts, a good backup, or even just consistent performing front row would go amiss either.

Heck, we loaned the ABs back thorn and look how good he became!!! LOL!

Well in that case, the ARU should look at poaching/stealing some of the young New Zealand born lock forwards who have the build and athletic prowess that someone like a Steve Cutler and then a John Eales brought to the great Wallaby packs in the 1980's and 1990's. Also didn't the All Blacks select a South African born lock forward in the Tri-Nations back in 2006?

OzT wrote:

aucklandlaurie wrote:
LB

If you guys beat Italy and Wales with the team youve got, then Julia will have Dingo taking the oath, learning Adv Aus Fair.and driving a commodore before xmas.

Pressure? What pressure..

Never!!! Even EJ never sang the south africian anthem when he was with them, no kiwi will ever think about singing that!. But come on, Deans's a kiwi, over there the Commodore hasn't arrived yet, Kingswoods still king!!!

Back in their day Bob hawke and Rob Muldoon had a number of disagreements.

After one such spat Muldoon told a Kiwi press conference, on talking about Hawke.

"He's not a Premier, I wouldnt even call him a jazzed up Kingswood"

Not much of a Statesman either...

Linebreaker wrote: Not much of a Statesman either...

Very good Linebreaker.

We're running out of Holden models....

I was in a restaurant about a year ago (for a family birthday) and we heard this unmistakeable laugh coming from a table near the back... it was none other than RJ Hawke. He was slightly pished.

I said "G'day mate" and then he said "G'day mate!" Only in Oz.

Caprice was having lunch at Geminis, when she saw Brougham coming in singing the Sandman song.

'EJ' Brougham called out to Eddie, and handed him a VB. Oh FK that he says, as the Commodore arrives with Monaro, we're going over to Calais and maybe up to Berlina, why don't we jump in the Torana and let's just nip down HQ to see if we've picked up a VC......

to be continued....

Austen Tayshus?

Australiana does Holden...

[quote="OzT"]Caprice was having lunch at Geminis, when she saw Brougham coming in singing the Sandman song.

'EJ' Brougham called out to Eddie, and handed him a VB. Oh FK that he says, as the Commodore arrives with Monaro, we're going over to Calais and maybe up to Berlina, why don't we jump in the Torana and let's just nip down HQ to see if we've picked up a VC......

to be continued....[/quote


Camira, Belmont? remember them?