The disappoinment of being a Springbok supporter

It is with a serious amount of frustration that I watched South Africa see off a spirited second half performance from the Scots this evening.

Heyneke Meyer said after the first match again England in June which had 20 minute period where South Africa would have obliterated any team on the planet that there must be a 5% improvement in every game.

Sadly those twenty minutes has still been the best of what we have seen from his charges.

There are certain things we accpet from South African rugby and in all honesty I would not want to see that changed in any way whatsoever.

We have big strong forwards, we have a good line out, a decent scrum and our backrow, no matter the number of injuries will always be on par with the best out there.

The physicality of the Boks can and should never be underestimated and rightfully so. There are occasions where the backrow does let the team down in the breakdowns by not committing enough numbers as we saw against England in the thrid test, Argentina in Mendoza and Australia in Perth.

On those three occasions we were dominated at ruck time and struggled.

At least that is not an insurmountable problem and was corrected there after.

However that is where the good news ends.

Firstly the Springbok backline has now reached the point where Ruan Pienaar, Zane Kirchner and Jean de Cilliers must never again wear the Bok jersey.

As much as Ruan Pienaar is respected in Europe, he simply is not the guy that will take Bok rugby to new hights, Jean de Villiers is strong yes, but the most limited distributing 12 in world rugby, I cannot express my frustration more unless I was permitted to string along four letter words and explitives aplenty.

Apart from the fact that he doesn't pass, the bloke simply has zero vision and the crashball is his only weapon, ontop of that he has no boot and therefor he becomes a liability because of his limitations that makes him ultra predictable.

Zane Kirchner is another, similar in running style to Jean de Villiers with one exception, a percieved goose step which only he believes fool defences. It makes him less effective than Jean de Villiers as he only manages to lose momentum and pace when he does his little two step.

Yes the guy can kick, but with no plan or rhyme or reason behind his kicking.

Ruan Pienaar loves to kick, maybe it works for Ulster, but it sure as hell isn't working for South Africa.

There was once again not one ball that went through the hands to JP Pietersen or Hougaard in the match against Scotland, as was the case in the previous match against Ireland.

The monotony and predictability of the South African attack is now getting past the point of ridiculous. Rarely if ever are there more than one pass before the next ruck is setup, and every time there were two passes the result was a knock on. The forward pod running is fine but not every bloody time, and also not effective when the forward gets isolated because there are no support runners on his shoulder.

There is no variation and it seems South Africa is doomed to forever be the most predictable team on planet Earth. They are not interested to exhibit any skills beyond running into the nearest man and seeing whether this will provide the desired result.

i was embarresed tonight to see Scotland have more adventurous spirit than South Africa. What does it help we are trying new players ar pivot, when Pienaar still feeds the forward pod half the time, kicks another 30 percent of the time and then on occasion provides Lambie with slow ball.

It almost suggests a conspiracy plotted by Meyer and his cohorts to deprive the playmakers of ball in order for them to remain ineffective.

I am an armchair critic, however it astounds me and makes no common sense that the people running Springbok rugby does not reallise there is something wrong.

I am so fedup I want to #^%{+] myself.

Ye it must be a nightmare playing poorly and winning...

FEC OFF YOU A HOLIO!!!

Try being Welsh for a season then see how it feels to really get annoyed!!!

PS didn't read the thread properly, just incensed by your title and I'm guessing general view!

You don't know how lucky you are Biltong. I think that's what Bluesman is trying to say too!

So negative. And that's very unfair on Ruan. Aside from Aaron Smith he has to be the best in world rugby, certainly a lot better than his overrated predecessor (Du Preez). I'd be happy with the Bok progress. This an Autumn series and you have nothing to lose. Boks are unearthing some new players and handing out some more caps to inexperienced players whilst winning games of rugby. England should be a tough challenge. I think if they get the amount of posession Scotland had in the latter quarter then they'd get the points.

Yeah.. Snot fair.

England and Wales far more deserve to be in the doldrums than SA.....

Biltong its well known Meyer gets things wrong, waits far to long to select the right players and fought internally with his ability to change all year.

He made the mistake of thinking he could say things simply because the results werent in yet. I mean its easy to say 5% improvement from each match- but how do you realise that, measure it, and most importantly become accountable to it. Fact is you cant so it becomes another pie in the sky whim.

He's made so many like it this year that anything he says now cant be taken seriously.

But he will know this and hopefully get smarter with the experience- something once the AIs are over he should have, having done it all in one year bar a world cup experience.

Agree re Pienaar, never did like him since he played us in 10 was it? His NH experience has put yet another player in the false limelight it tends to for the international stage.

9 is one position SA definitely needs to find and its not often they dont have a strong one. 10 is the same. Lambie is struggling with the they way defences are organised and I've always said he'll end up at 12 where theres a bit more room.

For me though, globally individual skills are lacking. Theres too much structure and players instincts are suppressed.

Priestlands decision for me when he had no one in front of him, players to his right and only two or three defenders chose to kick deep.

Any NZ 10 down to club level would have read the situation better and would have taken off to the left without hesitating.

Same happened in Scotlands match in the last 10. Scots are attacking away and the idiot 10 chips it into the goal area. No players knew about it, no one was there and back 50 yards they went again.

Just think there needs to be a back to basics approach to the game where players play it to get the ball to the other end of the field. I mean how hard does it have to be.

It seems most of you don't agree with me.

Well put it this way, if we don't start having variation in attack we will remain part of a growing number of teams who don't have the ability to break loose from the pack.

Bill you are arent tough enough to be a welsh supporter if you think the Bok have it bad.

You want to talk about disappointment? Try having 16 test victories in a row and then turn up to Brisbane and push to equal the record only to be denied with a drop goal that goes a metre wide. Now, that's disappointment!

It's not that people don't agree with you, it's more that the majority of posters on here would love to have your problems I.e. be a supporter of a country that is consistently top 2 in the world, beats NH sides regularly and fairly easily, even when playing bad, and only really has 1 team above them in the world consistently. Things could be a lot worse!

Biltong wrote:It seems most of you don't agree with me.

Well put it this way, if we don't start having variation in attack we will remain part of a growing number of teams who don't have the ability to break loose from the pack.

I agree with you. The Boks have a lot of muscle but often lack brains and creativity, innovation and flair especially in the backs.

Your back row was also outmuscled for 40 minutes in Dublin so they aren't unbeatable.

gunsgerms, there is a difference being outmuscled and out penalised.

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:You want to talk about disappointment? Try having 16 test victories in a row and then turn up to Brisbane and push to equal the record only to be denied with a drop goal that goes a metre wide. Now, that's disappointment!

You're an example to all of the kids Kia. Stoicism in the face of boring perfection.

try being a Scotland supporter! Its the constant flux of hope and depression annually!

Read the comments after an AB match and you think we'd have lost. Miserable, ungrateful bunch the lot of us. And yet always looking for improvement.

Sometimes we don't stress the positives enough and tend to focus on the negatives. Biltong thinks SA can play better and he's right. That's where the frustration came in. NZ similarly looked unconvincing in most of the RC until the final two matches. Then we let standards slip in Brisbane with easily our worst performance.

I think any supporter has had reason to complain this year. But each supporter has had good reason to be thankful as well. It's just that some have had more reason to focus on the positives and haven't and v.v. It depends on the curve of your team and whether it's pointing upwards or downwards. Personally SA for me has curved upwards this season in terms of tactics and selection but have experienced a few blips. Looking at other teams it seems more like a seismograph in a huge earthquake so lack of consistency is for me much more frustrating. Well maybe consistently poor is hardest to take but at least you know what's coming... a hiding!

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:Read the comments after an AB match and you think we'd have lost. Miserable, ungrateful bunch the lot of us. And yet always looking for improvement.

Sometimes we don't stress the positives enough and tend to focus on the negatives. Biltong thinks SA can play better and he's right. That's where the frustration came in. NZ similarly looked unconvincing in most of the RC until the final two matches. Then we let standards slip in Brisbane with easily our worst performance.

I think any supporter has had reason to complain this year. But each supporter has had good reason to be thankful as well. It's just that some have had more reason to focus on the positives and haven't and v.v. It depends on the curve of your team and whether it's pointing upwards or downwards. Personally SA for me has curved upwards this season in terms of tactics and selection but have experienced a few blips. Looking at other teams it seems more like a seismograph in a huge earthquake so lack of consistency is for me much more frustrating. Well maybe consistently poor is hardest to take but at least you know what's coming... a hiding!

haha very true, I at least never expected to win against NZ although I thought we could've won against south africa but standard Scottish choking with expectation!

I guess deep down I expected we'd lose that too

Well Scotland supporters had very right to be optimistic after a good tour down under. But silly mistakes at crucial times, poor discipline and an inability to put pressure by ticking the scoreboard over at regular times have let Scotland down.

And yet they were playing the number one and number two ranked teams in the world. They were hopeful of getting an upset but that's exactly what it would've been. So maybe you Scottish posters are being too pessimistic. It's like losing in poker to better cards. Statistically that's what should happen.

Let's see how you do in the 6N. By all means if you get the wooden spoon then, you should feel more than disappointment. Rock bottom despair would be more appropriate! Why, because you're good enough to do well and whilst your backline is not functioning as well as it can in particular, you are still very much a work in progress. Much like SA. So chin up! It could be worse. You could be Grand Slam winners to losing 5 games in a row and the last two to teams ranked lower than you. Ouch! Not taking any joy from that as I really don't care who wins other than my AB team and both Argentina and Samoa deserved to win but that has to hurt. Then again, they'll probably win next week and I'll be back on this thread emotionally dumping!

Biltong it depends entirely on your game plan. Moreso than any other of the top three south Africa kick the ball. I don't necessarily agree with it but when you have a misfiring lambie, jdv (who you admit isn't a distributing 12) and taute/de jongh in your midfield then in reality kicking will always be a big part of your game.

Goosen will of course improve things but there needs to be a threat in the centres, especially with JPP and Habana on the wings ( as an aside I see your JDV and raise you gordon D'arcy in the non-distributing 12 stakes)

Coming back to ulster will be interesting for Pienaar as we have played a lot more rugby this year than we did last and kicked a lot less i feel. This is probably the influence of having Jackson, wallace/Marshall and Payne as distributors. I think Pienaar has the best pass in world rugby truth be told and i think SA's issues are down to game plan more than anything else.

If you can line up a Great and creative centre pairing (can lambie play 12?) To play outside Goosen and Pienaar I think you would see rewards

Standulsterman, Lambie can play 12 and you are correct a Goosen, Lambie at 10 and 12 will make a difference, however Meyer will never play them together as midfields are bigger and both Lambie and Goosen aren't the bigger guys.

You will most likely see Goosen, Frans Steyn at 10 and 12,

That would again be an improvement biltong. Lambie could so a job there but to my mind you would need a big unit at 13. What's goosens defence like?

Steyn is a good 12 but probably has a propensity to kick too.

Pienaar
Goosen
habana
Steyn
?
JPP
Lambie

Is a back line with a lot of potential. Maybe ship pietersen in one ( he needs to be involved more IMO) and move someone (hougaard?) onto the wing. It would be a massive change from how the team has always played (that I can recall anyway) which is the issue

JP Pietersen has to be at OC. Taute should be getting experience at fullback because Kirchner is solid enough without being anything special. JDV shouldn't be the captain and that should go to JP. Then it's easier to drop him as frankly his distribution is not good enough and his form doesn't justify selection let alone the captaincy. The problem with 10 is that nobody is showing form at test level and Goosen probably needs another season in Super rugby before he can play at this level. Adding a few pounds wouldn't hurt either. Lambie hasn't shown anything special in terms of test form and Fran Steyn was out of sorts before he got injured.

Get the players back in form and I'd plump for Pienaar, Lambie, Fran Steyn, JP Pietersen, Habana and then whoever puts their hand up for fullback in terms of Taute and Kirchner (have them both in the squad) and someone like Hougaard on the wing or someone else in good nick.

Biltong wrote:gunsgerms, there is a difference being outmuscled and out penalised.

I know but Ireland dominated the breakdown in the firsthalf.

They dominated NZ in the second test in that area as well. But Ireland lost both games. Winning the breakdown is important but Ireland have been let down in other areas.

I was disappointed too. I think part of it is that there is, in the players available, the potential to do much better. The boks, at the moment, as a team seem to be considerably less than the sum of their parts.

Standulstermen wrote:That would again be an improvement biltong. Lambie could so a job there but to my mind you would need a big unit at 13. What's goosens defence like?

Steyn is a good 12 but probably has a propensity to kick too.

Pienaar
Goosen
habana
Steyn
?
JPP
Lambie

Is a back line with a lot of potential. Maybe ship pietersen in one ( he needs to be involved more IMO) and move someone (hougaard?) onto the wing. It would be a massive change from how the team has always played (that I can recall anyway) which is the issue

I agree with Kia, JP Pietersen will make an unbelievably strong combination with Frans Steyn.

9. ?
10 Goosen
11. Habana
12. Frans Steyn
13. JP Pietersen
14. Paul Jordaan
15. Taute

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:JP Pietersen has to be at OC. Taute should be getting experience at fullback because Kirchner is solid enough without being anything special. JDV shouldn't be the captain and that should go to JP. Then it's easier to drop him as frankly his distribution is not good enough and his form doesn't justify selection let alone the captaincy. The problem with 10 is that nobody is showing form at test level and Goosen probably needs another season in Super rugby before he can play at this level. Adding a few pounds wouldn't hurt either. Lambie hasn't shown anything special in terms of test form and Fran Steyn was out of sorts before he got injured.

I agree that JPP should go to OC, he impressed me when he played there for the Sharks. I'm not so sure about him at captain though. The Bok captain has to play a crucial off-field diplomatic role. He's got to placate the fans, the press and the politicians (who more-often-than-not all want different things from the boks); he's got to also create and maintain unity within the team between potentially warring factions (english vs Afrikaans; white vs black vs coloured etc). Amongst his many other skills, it was John Smit's ability to do these things par-excellence that made him invaluable to the boks (and probably kept him in the Green and Gold longer than his playing form alone would have.) I'm not so sure JPP has these skills (eg the Zebo/Trimble quip...)

What South Africa are missing is a Naas Botha type of player, i.e. a number 10 who can orchestrate and dictate the game using his boot.

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:They dominated NZ in the second test in that area as well. But Ireland lost both games. Winning the breakdown is important but Ireland have been let down in other areas.

Completely agree with this. Our back play in particular is usually the worst of any team in the top 8 and there is no variety or intelligence in our tactics in attack. We are also the most predictable team in the top 10 with Boks pretty close behind.

Biltong, I'm not an expert on SA rugby but this is what I think. Correct me if I'm wrong.

People want Meyer to change the Boks style of play. Meyer prefers to play to the Boks strengths so what does he do, he doesn't change much but picks Lambie at 10 instead of Morne Styne. Now Styne went a bit off form but is the type of 10 that is suited to the SA style of play. Lambie offers more flair and is a fans favourite. It looks like Meyer is falling between two stools and is doing so because of the pressure from home.

Meyer's and SA's big problem IMO is they want to change the style of play but keep the physicality. The problem with that is if they want a more ball in hand style of play then it means they'll have to pick - wait for it - a lighter, more mobile pack!

Whats Meyer to do? He can stay down the traditional route or risk changing things and if he risks changing things and results suffer in the short term (which would be likely) then he'll find himself out of the job.

If the Boks change their style, do they have the players to implement a more expansive, risky style of rugby? How many SA teams play that way? If they want to play like New Zealand it won't happen overnight. It takes years training players to get to that standard.

Btw Biltong you're wrong about Pienaar. He is playing great for Ulster and they like to play running rugby.

Profitius, not much has to change, but the right players must be selected and although Meyer says pplayers have carte blanche to play the way they want, it is clearly not true.

The way we play the territorial game doesn't need to change, but we must get the players with the talent in there, not the kimited barnstormers.

profitius wrote:Biltong, I'm not an expert on SA rugby but this is what I think. Correct me if I'm wrong.

People want Meyer to change the Boks style of play. Meyer prefers to play to the Boks strengths so what does he do, he doesn't change much but picks Lambie at 10 instead of Morne Styne. Now Styne went a bit off form but is the type of 10 that is suited to the SA style of play. Lambie offers more flair and is a fans favourite. It looks like Meyer is falling between two stools and is doing so because of the pressure from home.

Meyer's and SA's big problem IMO is they want to change the style of play but keep the physicality. The problem with that is if they want a more ball in hand style of play then it means they'll have to pick - wait for it - a lighter, more mobile pack!

Whats Meyer to do? He can stay down the traditional route or risk changing things and if he risks changing things and results suffer in the short term (which would be likely) then he'll find himself out of the job.

If the Boks change their style, do they have the players to implement a more expansive, risky style of rugby? How many SA teams play that way? If they want to play like New Zealand it won't happen overnight. It takes years training players to get to that standard.

I think you have it in one here- SA has been in this exact state of confusion all year, Meyer only relenting to change as the 'L's came in. So its not a nice position to be in. The trouble with his plan is you cant expect to continue to dominate with new players. You cant just replace the Burgers, Matfields etc in the one year. The dominated in those areas because they had experience and a hold over others before they even got on the field. New players are just not going to have that intimidation factor.

So he had to diversify..trouble is, its not his area of skill. Reminds me of Deans a little. Went from Crusaders with all the best meat in the land to pick from and dominate the local scene to a side looking to start again....lost.

But cant agree with Pienaar, hes never made the step up to international level and hes had years of trying. Regardless of good you think Ulster is, or his form there, its irrelevant at this level. Its like saying Stephen Donald plays well for the Chiefs. Does that in itself give you confidence in him internationally, and at the moment I'd say the Chiefs are superior to Ulster.

Biltong,I can understand your frustration Meyer says one thing but does another.BUT first look at the negatives he has lost several of his best
players to injury or other reasons.Frans Steyn,Burger,Habana,Bekker,Goosens will be back next year.
.
Now the positives he has successfully introduced a lot of players to Test Rugby
not all will make the grade.
He is sticking with the Traditional Bok strengths and trying to graft on to it a more fluid game.
BUT as others have pointed out you won`t beat an AllBlack side consistently by adopting there strengths.You have to find and exploit there weak nesses which is easier said than done.
They will learn from there mistakes and adapt themselves to counter it that is what the game is about.
You have all the players better to use home based ones then go abroad they are more in touch with the current SH game.
It would be fairer to judge him when he can use all his perceived first choice players.
BUT understand your desire to move away from what was essentially the Bulls game plan.It only really worked in 2009 when other sides were handicapped by weakened sides.

Feels like Ive been saying this for years. The Bulls type plan only worked in 09 and that was because of the tackle ball rules. That strategy went out at the start of 2010 at Eden Park (again) was an emphatic statement to the boks "You can not play that way anymore".

The Boks are still not listening to it. There are signs this year of it through reluctance alone and by looking at the way the Boks have attacked recently it doesnt look as though a lot of effort has been put into it- though admittedly is has improved- though probably because the players chosen simply play that way anyway. I wonder if Meyer has really sat down with the backs over long sessions brainstorming ways to break the line, attack from the deep etc. I doubt hes even contemplated it at all.

Meyer started the year with 100% confidence in that plan. He wouldnt have comprehended the results to date even though they were completely predictable.

Rugby is a 15 man game more than ever now and until that mesage gets through the mounds of wax we'll keep going round and round till the cows come home.

SA rugby has slipped back into the pack where they are only marginally better than the NH sides at the same thing. Innovation, new ideas, new directions keep individuals and teams at the top- Its a basic sporting and business- 101 concept. Dinosaurs no longer rule the earth (and other cliches).

But do you think JDV is that type of captain? Smit went past his sell by date probably but he was indeed a good captain who inspired people. I don't get that from JDV. His after match comments are bizarre and I get the idea he represents part of the problem SA are trying to move on from: a conservative one-dimensional type of player.

In any event, if you don't think JP is captain material then there's always the return of Burger who seems to accept the responsibility that comes with being captain for the better. But as it stands, JDV is a big part of SA's backline problems and in my mind has to go. Being captain makes it more difficult to get rid of him but as he's not a good captain in my view, it shouldn't be such a difficult decision for Meyer if more players in form come back from injury.

Meyer has always planned making Burger his captain.

Good to hear mate. I hope he's always planned on sacking JDV when Burger comes back.

I don't want to sound so harsh on such a good servant of SA rugby but there's no room for sentiment unfortunately in test rugby. If he's not up to it, he has to go.

I thought Lambie was pants against Scotland. His option taking was poor and he seems to have caught the "pointless up and under" bug.

Is there some strange virus taken hold in the SA camp that causes constant leg spasms?

I tottaly agree Kia, Jean de Villiers stifles any evolution in our back play

Bit harsh on jdv and Ruan dude. So jdv ain't the same player he was 5 years ago... But in honesty he's only a stop gap and without him team would be near rudderless... You need a little bit of experience esp. with so many injuries to semi senior guys like frans.

Next season will be very different if Meyer can choose most if not all the players he wants.

Who would you play against England? De jongh and taute? That may be exciting but it would be dangerous esp. vs. tuilagi. Neither are 12s and taute is very green at 13 himself.

Remember at the beginning of the season when hougaard started at 9. Then you had charge downs, interceptions, slow service a poor kicking game. Ruan saved the boks season in many ways.

He is a kicking 9 but then again he boks haven't had an attacking 9 since joost... Well bar the odd pie chucking boytjie

I like Piet van zyl... He has a little bit of pace, a good service and potential. Can't go back to hougaard, that would be useless. Otherwise there is little to choose from.

It's true Meyer doesn't have options and I think he has had his hands tied behind his back in terms of selection. But next year if F Steyn is back and in form then I think he and JP should be the centres. JDV does not know how to pass and offloading is what this Bok backline needs.

I wouldn't want Hougaard at 9. I suggested him on the wing until someone comes back from injury or next year somebody better comes along. His pass at 9 is indeed not good enough.

Don't South Africa have a Naas Botha type of player somewhere in the provincial game who hasn't yet played or been part of the Senior South African Squad?

fa0019 wrote:Bit harsh on jdv and Ruan dude. So jdv ain't the same player he was 5 years ago... But in honesty he's only a stop gap and without him team would be near rudderless... You need a little bit of experience esp. with so many injuries to semi senior guys like frans.

Next season will be very different if Meyer can choose most if not all the players he wants.

Who would you play against England? De jongh and taute? That may be exciting but it would be dangerous esp. vs. tuilagi. Neither are 12s and taute is very green at 13 himself.

Remember at the beginning of the season when hougaard started at 9. Then you had charge downs, interceptions, slow service a poor kicking game. Ruan saved the boks season in many ways.

He is a kicking 9 but then again he boks haven't had an attacking 9 since joost... Well bar the odd pie chucking boytjie

I like Piet van zyl... He has a little bit of pace, a good service and potential. Can't go back to hougaard, that would be useless. Otherwise there is little to choose from.

FA, too late to make changes now mate.

He should have done it from the start.

In the backline, Meyer has tried no one at 9, 12 and 15.

Arguably 3 of you most important positions in attack.

So now he has little choice to continue in the English test with the same type players.

Looks like Taute isnt going to get a chance at 15 on this tour.

After Strauss's intercept try would have been the ideal time to give him some game time.
Instead the boks went into their shell and just attempted to protect their lead.

Having said that the Scottish defence was so poor in the first half that the game was over as a contest by the time Strauss strolled in between the sticks.

With a much stiiffer test awaiting next week Meyer may of course be keeping his powder dry for the English, we will see.

The whole pack really outplayed their Scottish opponents which resulted in a fairly dull but convincing win in the end.

I hate whats happened to what was our greatest foe (I dont see them that way now- theyre a shadow of what they were) and it seems like this is going to go on for a long time.

I also dont see much coming from the seemingly eternally injured players- Burger, Juan Smit and to a lesser extent Du Plessis (at least he has played in the last 2 years) because for one they'll be older, will take ages to get match fit, and will never be the players they were for these injuries. I mean injuries you get over- not take two years off for. How can one possibly be as good as they were after that?

This year was Meyers chance to blood the new players in and hes handled it terribly having Steyn until he got worse than he actually was, keeping JDV and now 'dont expect the ball from me' Kirchner.

My question is:

If Nick Mallet had started the year as coach what would his side look like now. I'd bet half the players in this side wouldnt be there.

The domination up front idea isnt a strategy. Its a result of a very long and tenuous process, one thats not going to occur in the first year with a new side. Everyone is busy trying to dominate up front in the same regard. So you have to look to other tactics, not select players like JDV who are there to support a domination strategy (even though it isnt in place yet).

I supported JDV during a 'handover' period for his experience in the same way Weepu is there, but there is no handover...this is it. JDV is actually the way forward...

So we have a pack that doesnt dominate, and backs lead by a player that cant create.

Dont know the answer either but either way the wrong person is in the coaching job when looking at this year so far.

Taylorman it depends from who's perspective you are looking at this.

Firstly nobody really knows what Meyer's real plan is, he has not shared this with the public. We don't know what his methodology is, we all know his game plan from 5 years ago, we don't know whether he beleives in a new plan.

He is a bit of a contradiction in terms.

We alil know that his bckline selections can be different, but we also know that injuries on a " rotational basis to Frans Steyn, JP Pietersen and Bryan Habana has affected the balance of his backline, add Johan Goosen in there and it is pretty difficult to select a backline with any continuity.

But then there is also Morne Steyn, Jean de Villiers and Zane Kirchner who he has consistently selected which is where things being unclear.

Does he believe Zane Kirchner is his future Fullback?
Why is Taute no being given a chance or Lambie?

Is Morne Steyn still in his selection line up?
Why does Jantjies not get a chance?

He made Jean de Villiers his captain for this year, what happens there after?
There has been o mention of de Villiers retiring, which leads me to bekieve de Villiers will be there next year as well.

The biggest problem with the selections I see is it seems Meyer is content with being number 2.

Well whatever his strategy was its changed since the beginning of the year as it can't have been I'll stick with Steyn all year no matter what. Now hes in a place he just does not know what to do.

Not a lot he can do with this tour.

Next year he should openly and very transparently wipe the slate clean.

Meet with all the sxv squads and coaches. Tell him the style of rugby he wants his side to play next year. Tell every single player- individually- that he will picking the very best in every position from the sxv- no one gets preferrential treatment, no one from overseas clubs will be considered.

I'm sure half the players in these squads don't know where they stand in the pecking order. Every player should be asking what do I need to do to make the Bok side- and Meyer must be able to answer hat question- I don't believe he knows how to.

This way he puts the fate of SA rugby back where it belongs- with the players

And stick to it- RIGIDLY.

If he'd have done that this year no way would Steyn have been picked. The team would reflect, win or lose, the best of whats on offer. The responsibilities are shared between the players and coach as they should be.

Look at what hes got now As you say, no one knows what hes up to. Thats bad, any way you look at it. Hes wearing the problem entirely rather than putting trust back in those that need it.

Thats why hes the wrong man for the job. He thinks he alone can win tests.

Before the match Nick Mallet suggested this is the game where the Springboks must chance their arm, if they aren't going to do it against Scotland, when will they?

Here is what he said after the game.

1. Why is Lambie so much poorer than he was for Guppies?

2. JdeV was magnificent on defense, gained metres over
the gainline every time – but then we get slow ball?
Surely this is where you attack hand to hand from?

3. Question: Is Kirchner part of the backline – creating
the man over etc. – or not? And why?

4. Boks look much more confident on defense than on
attack. Why? (Afraid for the wrath of HM?)

5. Total lack of play between backs and forwards.

6. Ball never going through the hands. Hougaard
and JPP never got a ball. Instead we usually
kicked or bashed.

Here are some comments from SA suporters feeling pretty much how I feel.

They looked clueless. French props have better ball skills than any bok backlineplayer. The bokke are directionless, without any ballskills, useless handling, pathetic at pace. Just playing like stupid,one dimensional pieces of
meat, struggling to execute basics and predictable. One word to sum up bok tour?

Dumb.

Agree, HM is clueless. Absolutely no joy in watching Springbok rugby any more.

Went fishing instead and missed the game.

That’s really our of character for me as I have managed to watch games in Egypt, Malawi, Mozambique, Bali, any where in the world but I knew this tour is about 1 thing and 1 thing only. Win at all costs to get HM’s winng ratio’s up. Nothing more.

HM is very disapointing indeed.

Rebuidling, injuries blah blah blah. We suck at playing the running game because the coach should have chosen around Jake white time and not now. He is outdated.

I removed all the swear words.