Roger Lewis predicts WRU deal with regions by Christmas- Watch on the Wales report tonight at 22:25

From BBC Wales: 22:25-22:55 GMT, Sunday, 18 November

Chief executive Roger Lewis expects the Welsh Rugby Union and the nation's financially-troubled regions to sign a fresh accord before Christmas.



He says the regions' plight demands a "more central attitude" to managing the game, including which teams players and coaches join.

Lewis said: "I'm pretty confident that this side of Christmas, we will sign a new accord."



The interview is on the Wales Report, BBC One Wales from 22:25 GMT on Sunday.


Cardiff Blues, the Ospreys, Scarlets and Newport Gwent Dragons have lost a host of Welsh and non-Welsh Test stars in recent seasons, particularly to French clubs.

"We need to work far closer with our players, so which players play for which regions and when and how do we manage that with the national team?”

That has led to accusations from several leading figures in the game that while the WRU is thriving financially, the regions are suffering.

Former Ospreys chief Mike Cuddy, Lewis's predecessor David Moffett and ex-main Newport backer Tony Brown, a view later backed up by Scrum V pundit and ex-Wales dual-code star Jonathan Davies. However, Lewis denies the WRU has "starved" the regions of financial resources, saying: "I certainly do not agree that they've been starved of funds.

"In fact we only signed the participation agreement three years ago which gave the four regions a fantastic financial horizon. So that's not been the case and we've been working on a rolling five-year financial plan within the WRU which has delivered and has delivered consistently. I'm confident it will continue to deliver. So we are confident we can work with the regions to ensure that they have the same thinking as well."

Lewis believes the new agreement will lead to "far greater structural relationship" between the four regions and the WRU.

He added: "We need to be more joined-up in how we approach the rugby issues. We're already doing it with our analysts, with our strength and conditioners, with our health and physio and fitness people. But we need to do it more on the coaching side as well. We need to have a shared view of who is right to coach where and when within Wales, and so that is on the table."

The difficult financial climate is thought to be one reason why local games are failing to pull in the masses, "We need to work far closer with our players, so which players play for which regions and when and how do we manage that with the national team? And then, financially, we need to get the right systems and structures in place with the right people with the right skills to make sure we maximise the opportunity in what is a very challenging set of economic circumstances."


Four of Wales' current squad - James Hook (Perpignan), Mike Phillips (Bayonne), Gethin Jenkins (Toulon) and Luke Charteris (Perpignan) - play in France while prop Paul James is at Bath.

Recently-capped Huw Bennett, Lee Byrne and Aled Brew are also on French clubs' books while prop Craig Mitchell (Exeter), number eight Andy Powell (Sale) and scrum-half Dwayne Peel (Sale) play in England.


In January 2008, the WRU approved a plan aimed at dissuading players from leaving Wales by backing the selection of home-based players. But as the player-drain increased, that plan was eroded and Lewis says such an approach can only be implemented again if the new agreement with the regions is a success.


He added: "That is a card that can be played, but you've got to play it at the right time and now is not the time to play it because we haven't got the joined-up contractual relationship with the regions.


Options for Welsh Rugby

- Status quo
- Change season structure
- Centrally contract players
- Disband regions, revert to clubs
- Reduce number of regions
- WRU takes over all pro rugby
- Form collaborative management board to enforce decisions


"But if we had that contractual relationship, if we have that sense of 'it's Team Wales', we can then say, 'if you do not play your rugby in Wales, you do not get picked for Wales'. And that is certainly something that New Zealand have done and Ireland have also emphasised that point as well."

He hopes players will at some point begin to resist the temptation to move to France by the WRU and regions rekindling the pride of playing in Wales.

"Somehow in France they've managed to generate millions upon millions of Euros to pay their players, and they pay them far more than anyone in Wales or England, for that matter, can afford.
So what we've got to be able to create in Wales is a sense of 'this is something that is so important'; so important for a Welsh player to play their rugby here, that we have to make it so attractive that they will not consider that.
How we'll do that is a sense of immense pride within Welsh rugby... but I think it's been eroded by so many conditions. So many things that have gone on in Wales - it's been tough and for some players, they find it better to be out of the goldfish bowl of Wales than be actually trying to swim here.

"So we do need to help them on that, but then we do need to join up the pathways to ensure the the contractual relationship - and this is really getting to the hub of it now - that the contractual relationship with the regions and the union is far more joined up. That's going to take time because at the moment, we at the union have our contracts with our players until 2016. We're the only union in the world that's got that, and that's part of that five-year thinking that I put in place some five years ago. We've got to do that with the regions as well."

I'll probably miss it, but if you could update this with the info and what's said we'd all be grateful.

If Roger the dodger, has his way, it will signal the end of Regional Rugby, as the WRU will be able to put whatever coaches into any of the regions, be able to move any players to any of the other teams, all of this without the money put into these teams without the benefactors assistance? because surely if they don't have control of their own clubs why would they put their own money in?
The profits made each year by the WRU does not cover what the benefactors at my Region (Ospreys) have had to put in themselves for the last 2 years without the other 3 teams being involved.
It is obvious that the WRU have been trying to compete with the Regions, to gain complete control on these issues, the latest in a long line of competition being the stopping of the Ospreys v Tonga game, which would have brought in badly needed revenue, the latest speculation of Sky having the Autumn Internationals with extra revenue for the WRU can only reinforce this conjecture.
The Regions need to fight this tooth and nail and stand together, any crack in their resolve will be exploited by the WRU

Morgannwg wrote:I'll probably miss it, but if you could update this with the info and what's said we'd all be grateful.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/search?q=%22Huw%20Edwards%22

Morgannwg wrote:I'll probably miss it, but if you could update this with the info and what's said we'd all be grateful.

Roger spoke for about 10mins. Didn't say anything.

Casartelli wrote:

Morgannwg wrote:I'll probably miss it, but if you could update this with the info and what's said we'd all be grateful.

Roger spoke for about 10mins. Didn't say anything.

Most of what he said is in the OP...!

I stopped reading at 'fantastic financial horizon'.

Roger's management speak is unbearable arse gravy.

Casartelli wrote:I stopped reading at 'fantastic financial horizon'.

Roger's management speak is unbearable arse gravy.

So what you are actually saying is that it wasn't that he spoke for ten minutes and said nothing, it was that when he spoke you didn't want to listen...?

After all your arguments against WRU initiatives and actions regarding rugby in Wales at all levels in particular national and regional. I would have thought you would have been particularly interested...?

so what does
"Lewis believes the new agreement will lead to "far greater structural relationship" between the four regions and the WRU.

He added: "We need to be more joined-up in how we approach the rugby issues. We're already doing it with our analysts, with our strength and conditioners, with our health and physio and fitness people. But we need to do it more on the coaching side as well. We need to have a shared view of who is right to coach where and when within Wales, and so that is on the table."

The difficult financial climate is thought to be one reason why local games are failing to pull in the masses, "We need to work far closer with our players, so which players play for which regions and when and how do we manage that with the national team? And then, financially, we need to get the right systems and structures in place with the right people with the right skills to make sure we maximise the opportunity in what is a very challenging set of economic circumstances."

really mean?

Coachs to be employed by WRU, and based in regions, one style of play for all regions?
Players to be moved between regions? rest periods? central contracts?
Still don't see how they paln to increase crowds

Kingshu - the way it read to me was that Roger Lewis wants to move the international players to places where they can play together in the HEC as partnerships.

I would not be too suprised to see the Blues and Ospreys strengthened with players from the Scarlets and Dragons, with the Scarlets getting to keep some of their stars and having their gaps plugged by lesser Blues/Ospreys players, and the Dragons being pooped on and having the dregs of the other sides and the potential stars.

I see something like this;

Blues - WRU bringing in North (Scarlets), J Davies (Scarlets), Priestland (Scarlets), D Jones (Ospreys), Rees (Scarlets), Lydiate (Dragons), Faletau (Dragons)

Halfpenny, North, Roberts, J Davies, Cuthbert, Priestland, Ll Williams; D Jones, Rees, Andrews, B Davies, Reed, Lydiate, Warburton, Faletau


Dragons - WRU bringing in Bishop (Ospreys), Tovey (Blues), G Davies (Scarlets), R Evans (Scarlets) Myhill (Scarlets), McCusker (Scarlets)

D Evans, Prydie, Hughes, Bishop, Fussel, Tovey, G Davies; R Evans, Myhill, Jarvis, A Jones, Sidoli, L Evans, Groves, McCusker


Ospreys - WRU bringing in Li Williams (Scarlets), Sc Williams (Scarlets), Stoddart (Scarlets), Shingler (Scarlets)

Li Williams, Dirkson, Beck, Sc Williams, Stoddart, Biggar, Webb; Bevington, Hibbard, A Jones, I Evans, AW Jones, Shingler, Tipuric, Ry Jones


Scarlets - WRU bringing in Gough (Ospreys), Navidi (Blues)

J Williams, Phillips, Maule, Warren, Fenby, G Owen, Knoyle; Rh Jones, Owens, Lee, Gough, Kelly, Turnbull, Navidi, Murphy


Realistically these player movements would not be that much more than has happened over the close season (for most regions) over the last few seasons, so the disruption to the player and sides would be minimal. Also that way there will be two teams that are realistically competitve (traditionally Munster/Leinster), one team that could step up to the mark (Ulster, until recently) and one team that can be used to develope talent for the others (Connacht), as the WRU seem to want to replicate the Irish system.

Do you think there will be just one central acamady, and players get drafted out of it each year?

I'd hate to have that system, where the IRFU move players where they think they would be best served.

To be honest the thought of a central accademy had never crossed my mind. Theoretically it would be good, as the top players would be training together etc. But then how many kids would be missed out etc, also travelling to cardiff for training (as lets face it they would have to be based there) may put some kids off too.

I really don't like the idea of the WRU being involved in where people play, and I think it may well end up killing off the crowds even more, as I like to see people playing for the Scarlets that belong there, people from towns/villages that are near me etc, I would hate to see a team that are basically all souless ringers, moved from team to team. If I wanted to watch that I would follow a Jeff side

I like to see people playing for the Scarlets that belong there, people from towns/villages that are near me etc

Spot on SS, this is one of the few things that has helped regional rugby continue. Watching the local players playing for their region. I'm not sure what's going to happen, roger lewis just talks in generic statements all the time.

Impossible Standards wrote:

I like to see people playing for the Scarlets that belong there, people from towns/villages that are near me etc

Spot on SS, this is one of the few things that has helped regional rugby continue. Watching the local players playing for their region. I'm not sure what's going to happen, roger lewis just talks in generic statements all the time.

He is a suit, and thinks that if he throws enough business talk around, and uses the right jargon that us commoners will just assume he knows what he is talking about, and assume that he is obviously more intellegent than we are and is seeing a bigger picture that we can't. Sadly all he does is p1$5 us all off.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

Impossible Standards wrote:

I like to see people playing for the Scarlets that belong there, people from towns/villages that are near me etc

Spot on SS, this is one of the few things that has helped regional rugby continue. Watching the local players playing for their region. I'm not sure what's going to happen, roger lewis just talks in generic statements all the time.

He is a suit, and thinks that if he throws enough business talk around, and uses the right jargon that us commoners will just assume he knows what he is talking about, and assume that he is obviously more intellegent than we are and is seeing a bigger picture that we can't. Sadly all he does is p1$5 us all off.

The media stopped buying his management speak ages ago, and in a post 'The Office' world, the general public (and 'casual' fan) see right through it. I genuinely think he doesn't know how to take things forward, and thus the safe option is to do nothing - as this keeps him in a job for longer. Welsh rugby would unite (somewhat reluctantly, probably) under modern, inspirational leadership from the WRU.

Roger, and his 1990s book of business buzzwords, isn't going to provide it.

He doesn't seam to ever answer a question, just skirt around it.

Nothing seams to answer "why local games are failing to pull in the masses".

Moving players around won't help, and regions will be annoyed when the star of thier acamady is moved to a rival.

Maybe a super rugby style where you can earmark 20 players from within your region, and the rest are drafted. Someone mentioned before about a pool of players for all the regions, when injury cover comes from, on a as needed basis?

I still don't know what will ever make the regions appealing? I'd say if one of them beat an English side in the H-cup final, there would be a massive jump in support, after all Welsh do like it when they can argue that their team is better than the English one, and rub a few noses in it.

If he said what the long term plan was it would be something. Or even if there is one.

Strong regions doesn't seem to be part of the 'bigger picture'. Salary caps and a small slice of the income cake. He hints at a selection policy of picking Welsh based players only for the test team, but it's inevitable that French money will lure more away. Central contracts seems to be something dreamed up over the summer (the Chairman stated in April that we would never have them).

The PWC report seems to have been suppressed. Even after it's leaked to the BBC the WRU don't make any specific comment on it - it's always the same old corporatey waffle.

Some outstanding players came together under a good coach and we won two more Grand Slams. Roger Lewis probably hoped that this would paper over all the cracks in the structure, but the underlying problems aren't going to solve themselves.

The big announcement that was definitely being made before the start of the season, and is now definitely being made by Xmas, is unlikely to make any difference.

Cas - I think if you asked him what hte long term plan was he would probably answer with something like "a viable and sustainable rugby structure, that is a hot bed for young home grown talent. And in turn producing international players of world class quality."

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Cas - I think if you asked him what hte long term plan was he would probably answer with something like "a viable and sustainable rugby structure, that is a hot bed for young home grown talent. And in turn producing international players of world class quality."

Either you cut and pasted that from the WRU website - or you are the natural successor to Roger as "CEO"!

Would be funny if it wasn't so horribly accurate. We deserve better!!!

Roger the Dodger said this in March this year;

"We are at a critical stage and that's what is so exciting because if we get this right we will come up with something in world rugby that will be the envy of the world."

Envy of the world my backside and now it's November.

I'm afraidn if I start typing regarding the WRU and rodge the todge I will never stop...

So I will merely say Frak THEM ALL

I wouldn't like to see players moved around all the time but there is an argument for some movement. eg. The Scarlets have 3 hookers who have been in the Welsh squad this Autumn ie Matthew Rees, Kirby Myhill and Ken Owens.

That is a crazy situation. In a case like that I would say, move Matthew Rees to the Blues (which is theoretically his home region being a Ponty lad) and leave the other 2 at Scarlets. In this way Ken Owens gets to be the number 1 hooker and hence more game time and then Myhill also gets more exposure. Matthew Rees will strengthen an area the Blues are underpowered in. Simples.

I would actually like to see a situation where most of the regional players play for their own home regions as I think this creates a greater link with the paying public.

doctornickolas wrote:I wouldn't like to see players moved around all the time but there is an argument for some movement. eg. The Scarlets have 3 hookers who have been in the Welsh squad this Autumn ie Matthew Rees, Kirby Myhill and Ken Owens.

That is a crazy situation. In a case like that I would say, move Matthew Rees to the Blues (which is theoretically his home region being a Ponty lad) and leave the other 2 at Scarlets. In this way Ken Owens gets to be the number 1 hooker and hence more game time and then Myhill also gets more exposure. Matthew Rees will strengthen an area the Blues are underpowered in. Simples.

I would actually like to see a situation where most of the regional players play for their own home regions as I think this creates a greater link with the paying public.

I agree that players playing for their home region is far better for trying to get people to attend games etc. But there needs to be allowances for players to move to where their skill set best suits too. After all you would not want to see a talented playmaking fly half being stuck with a region that want to play ball up the jumper ten man rugby.

Also not being disrespectful to any of the regions, but it does seem somewhat unfair (and I did say this in the past when people were calling for loan systems etc) for a region to spend the time and money developing a young player only to be told you have too many players in that position, were are sending them to another region. If all four regions are producing the same amount of international talent through their accademies then that would be fine, however at the moment this is not the case, and the system of moving players would just be a middle finger to those who are makng a real effort for the future.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

doctornickolas wrote:I wouldn't like to see players moved around all the time but there is an argument for some movement. eg. The Scarlets have 3 hookers who have been in the Welsh squad this Autumn ie Matthew Rees, Kirby Myhill and Ken Owens.

That is a crazy situation. In a case like that I would say, move Matthew Rees to the Blues (which is theoretically his home region being a Ponty lad) and leave the other 2 at Scarlets. In this way Ken Owens gets to be the number 1 hooker and hence more game time and then Myhill also gets more exposure. Matthew Rees will strengthen an area the Blues are underpowered in. Simples.

I would actually like to see a situation where most of the regional players play for their own home regions as I think this creates a greater link with the paying public.

I agree that players playing for their home region is far better for trying to get people to attend games etc. But there needs to be allowances for players to move to where their skill set best suits too. After all you would not want to see a talented playmaking fly half being stuck with a region that want to play ball up the jumper ten man rugby.

Also not being disrespectful to any of the regions, but it does seem somewhat unfair (and I did say this in the past when people were calling for loan systems etc) for a region to spend the time and money developing a young player only to be told you have too many players in that position, were are sending them to another region. If all four regions are producing the same amount of international talent through their accademies then that would be fine, however at the moment this is not the case, and the system of moving players would just be a middle finger to those who are makng a real effort for the future.

Needs to be a collective thing though. You might spend time and money training a player for him to move elsewhere, but in theory that should only happen in an area you're strong in AND you have a decent chance of strengthening an area you're weak in with an equivalent from another region. As long as each region is producing players it should equal out. this bigger issue is if you great new player moves else where to get game time and the bloke in front of him gets injured for a season. Then you're backup is not available.

It would work if all 4 regions were producing the same number of international class/h-cup level players, but they aren't.

The only way it would work out fairly in for there to be a central acamady run by the WRU (I believe that all 4 regions have thier acamadies run by WRU this would reduce costs),

Each year there is a draft for players that turn 21, (untill then they play for acamady side, and Wales under 21/19/18 etc etc)

This way if you can see Lock may be an problem area in future, you can pick a promising lock, theres still NWQ to fill gaps.

If WRU are serious about RCG1404, then they would come up to speed soon enough, as they would get first pick in the draft.

Thunor - yeah I was thinking about the Scarlets situation at the moment. We have three hookers that have been in the welsh training squad this autumn, which leaves us with only one hooker, and he made a return from injury in a late replacement last weekend.

Also at the moment there is a real weakness amongst all the regions (bar the Ospreys maybe) in the tight-five, as far as welsh talent goes. If the Ospreys were to be told they had to let Jarvis or Adam Jones move to the Dragons (arguably the worst off in this position), I doubt they would get a player of equal quality of the Dragons in return.

Kingshu - the central accademy idea is really good in principle, however the logistics would be awkward, unless they were to run say two academies (Swansea & Cardiff) and then split the talent between the two regions those accademies represented.

central accademy does sound like something the WRU would push, for as they can appoint coaches they like, and cut down cost by only having one or two.

Personally I wouldn't be fond of it, I would hate if the IRFU tryed it, I like Ulster, being mostly Ulstermen, Munster Munstermen etc etc, but since Wales don't really have defined regions, it could work for them.

One issue was if it was a draft win lowest rgion having first pick, would you end up with 4 mid table teams? The NWQ players would give you a real edge as the Welsh players would be more or less even across the 4 regions.

East/West acamadies could work, gives them games against each other, and pushes the coaches, as if one acamady is doing well with the same resources as the other, questions would be asked why 2nd isn't performing. With only one acamady there isn't the same benchmark to tell if it is performing or not.

Think only 2 acamadies, with Ospreys/Scarlets getting a draft from one and Blues/Dragons a draft from the other (say 2 players each then one from either acamady, each year) the players not picked go into a draft for clubs in the two regions, and are edigable to be called up by either region, to cover for on injuries. Something like this could be worked.