Robshaw?

?

Worst England Captain ever?

Whats he good for?

Hes damned if he does and damned if he doesnt.

I actually think that he is generally a decent captain.

Armitage is a better 7

I am not so sure about that and Robshaw does have the better temprament.

Seems to be that in the heat of the moment he has made the wrong decisions 2 weeks in a row now. I do like him as a player though and would give one last chance to be captain without making silly decisions. I would sit him down and explain it that way and give him his chance. However if another 7 (say Armitage) has put his hand up and is now ahead of Robshaw in the pecking order then I would be tempted to use this as a chance to give the captaincy to someone else and let the other 7 have their go. But I would only do this if the other 7 really is a clear step above. Also, I would only do it if there was someone else that is captain material who is nailed on for their own spot.

HERSH wrote:?
Worst England Captain ever?

God no, John Orwin and Mike Harrison were far worse, while decent captains like De Glanville and Borthwick were undermined by having to be accomodated at the expense of much better players. Robshaw has had a bad 8 days true, but not a bad captain (yet)

I guess you have changed your opinion of 10 days ago that Robshaw should be the Lions captain?

To be fair all around the pitch Robshaw had a very good game.

He gave away a 50/50 pen. And made what turned out to be the wrong call.

He also made two turnovers and a heap of tackles, plus helped us generate quick ball and slow down SA's.

I do think Lancaster will reinstate Wood as captain for the 6N's. But i've been thinking that since Wood was fast tracked straight back in to the side for this AI's.

Is this the same Robshaw that some have been calling to be Lions captain

yappysnap wrote:To be fair all around the pitch Robshaw had a very good game.

I think he is the best person to be playing 7 for England. However I felt that was his worst performance in an England shirt.

To me, playing well on the pitch, leading by example on the pitch, and making good leadership 'captain' decisions are different. I think Robshaw played well, but is not a great captain. Making decisions are mostly spur-of-the-moment things, not always planned in advance. A captain needs to be able to assess situations in seconds and then do the right thing.

At this point, I see no reason to replace him as a player. But as captain, probably the best thing is to keep with him through the NZ match, but then England need another on-field leader.

Where's "Robshaw4England" to defend him?

LondonTiger wrote:

yappysnap wrote:To be fair all around the pitch Robshaw had a very good game.

I think he is the best person to be playing 7 for England. However I felt that was his worst performance in an England shirt.

I totally agree.

I am just already tired of the Stuart Barnes hype machine and the crusade that's building momentum against Robshaw.

Yappy,

Now you know what it is like to be a tigers fan

doctor_grey wrote:To me, playing well on the pitch, leading by example on the pitch, and making good leadership 'captain' decisions are different. I think Robshaw played well, but is not a great captain. Making decisions are mostly spur-of-the-moment things, not always planned in advance. A captain needs to be able to assess situations in seconds and then do the right thing.

At this point, I see no reason to replace him as a player. But as captain, probably the best thing is to keep with him through the NZ match, but then England need another on-field leader.

As a Saints fan Grey do you think Hartley and Wood will help take a lot of the captaincy pressure off him if Robshaw was captain in the 6N's? You've seen them play and captain a lot could they do better if not?

LondonTiger wrote:Yappy,

Now you know what it is like to be a tigers fan

I hear ya Tiger.

Already feeling defensive about the Brown, Robshaw and Care backlash!! Bloody Sky!!

In a lot of ways, Brown did very well - just his inexperience of the position betrayed him slightly on the Manu interception. Care when he came on was fine. Of course I am biased - but I think Youngs best is a higher level than Care's - but Care is more consistent. As a coach I would always prefer consitency as you can build a gameplan around it.

But did you hear just how much happier Barnes is when he can be critical of England. It always sounds like he wants them to do badly. Of course he was a demi-god as a player

LondonTiger wrote:In a lot of ways, Brown did very well - just his inexperience of the position betrayed him slightly on the Manu interception.

I'm not sure he did anything wrong there. If he'd come infield there's no way he'd have been near enough behind Ashton to be of much use anyway. Staying wide at least kept the defence wary, and gave Ashton a hole to potentially run through.

He was too wide though, the distance to pass was a long way. A natural finisher (like Varndell say0 would have got a lot closer to the play but then been drifting to the outside to allow Ashton to commit the defender then beat him with the pass.

Yea you do hear Barnes comparing himself to the current players and they're all very very poor in comparison... It doesn't help that his co-commentator laps up everything he say's. Bit of Napoleon syndrome going on there.

I agree totally about Youngs, what's infuriating is that at his best he's near unstoppable but this England side and his own form mean he isn't hitting that.

Care is very solid but just seems a little too careful at Int level, he is far more comfy at Quins. Brown surprised me with his running game, but after watching Biggs and Monye last night I kind of wish we'd gone with one of them.

Perhaps, but remember this break came from turnover ball, so everyone would have been struggling to keep up. He was 5-10 yards behind Ashton as it is. If he'd cut a diagonal line inwards then he'd have been further back and pretty useless, leaving the defender to focus on Ashton.

Dear me....

He's fine. He'll have a little chat with Andy Farrell who's a very good captain.

We've lost two games we should have won. better players brought in.

There were 2 minutes and 20 seconds on the clock when England went for the 3 pointer, I was watching with my brother and said to him, " England just surrendered the match.

Irrespective of what happened last week, in those conditions England was not going to have a break away run from a kick off with 1 minute to go from the kick off.

Bilts...

You are absolutely right mate...but hopefully he will learn from the last two games where he made bad decisions....but I'll.not.chastise him...

Hopefully this summer and this AI will make.us strong in the 6n and going forward.

Geordie, I agree, John Smit made similar mistakes in his career, even when he was experienced.

In a match situation, the heat of the moment decisions happen, rightly or wrongly.

It was the wrong decision but Robshaw could have made more of it if he'd been decisive. With so little time left on the clock, there was no room to lose even ten or 15 seconds nattering with Farrell over what to do.

We were due to get the ball back but I didn't have any sense that we got ourselves ready for the restart. South Africa probably weren't going to kick it short and try to compete to win it back, because England would only have been 10 metres in their own half if they had secured it.

Kicking it long was an option but it would have handed free possession to England, albeit deep in their own half. The best choice, and the one they went for, was to kick it high and near to touch. South Africa had a clear edge in the lineouts. If the ball went into touch then even an England throw would be a good position for South Africa to defend.

I could work that out from a seat in the pub so you'd hope professional rugby players could do the same on the pitch. England should have expected it to go near the touchline and had an idea of how to react. As it is, the kick was overhit and could easily have gone straight out. Again, though, this is something we could have anticipated. We were so intent on claiming it, it never occurred to the players to be ready to leave it. As Austin Healey notes in his Telegraph piece, an attacking scrum on halfway with 20 or 30 seconds on the clock might have made for a very tense finish.

yappysnap wrote:He also made two turnovers and a heap of tackles, plus helped us generate quick ball and slow down SA's.

Yeah, but why remember 79 minutes of great play and good calls when we can throw rotten vegetables at him for a 50/50 call and one bad call at the end eh?

Way to get behind your national team Hersh, but if you want to single out players that's your call - there were plenty of other missed opportunities by plenty of other players, not seeing you singling them out though. Admittedly they're not Cpt, but those mistakes lost us the game as much as any CR made. F'k it, it was by a point to the world number 2(3).

LondonTiger wrote:But did you hear just how much happier Barnes is when he can be critical of England.

Yeah, he needed to put a sock in it for 80 minutes. Swings wildly from criticism to sycophancy and back again, but really sounds in his element putting the boot into England. How Sky still employs this tool is beyond me.

Quite simply, Robshaw panicked under pressure and that's not good when you're meant to be captain. Hopefully, he'll learn from this and come back a better player and captain.

Thought he made the right decision at the time, didn't help that he had to argue with Farrell to get him to do it, then wait an age for the tee to come on. They could have received the ball from the kickoff with a lot more time (comparatively).

I'm not sure he'll get many more chances like that again.

He was hailed as Captain fantastic because he beat Italy, Scotland, Ireland and France... the French game aside, we should expect any England side to beat Italy and Scotland at the moment and Ireland at home... irrespective of who the captain is.

You can't blame inexperience.... situations like in the AUS game last week and the SA game this week happen from colts rugby onwards in all levels... How many rugby games has he played since then??? A few hundred???

He's been captain for quins for a few years now, he should know better... and given he's not the best player in his position at the moment... either 6 or 7 if he ain't making the right decisions, if he ain't leading from the front then he shouldn't be playing... pure and simple. Even the 21yr old Farrell thought he was loco... and he spent half his youth playing league... so inexperience in terms of match experience is a poor excuse.

England wasted 2 years under borthwick before Johnson realised he wasn't the right captain or the best lock ENG had.... how many years/games will Lancaster waste with Robshaw.

Better to give the captaincy to Hartley and let Robshaw fight for his place.