Who should replace Andy Robinson? (Part 2)

First topic message reminder :

We did current SRU lackeys and candidates with successful international experience yesterday.

The most interesting list of candidates is that set out below in my opinion. Plenty of posters have been asking who would want the Scotland job. The answer, of course, is a young ambitious coach that may have had lots of success with regional franchises who wants to put themselves in the international shop window in the future.

There are plenty of possible candidates but the most interesting ones are set out below. All have the potential to take a head coach's job and also to form part of a wider coaching team:

1. Dave Rennie

i. Arguments for: took the Chiefs from 10th in the Super 15 to 1st in the space of one year, became the first rookie coach to win the Super tournament, quasi-international experience with New Zealand national under-20s whom he guided to three consecutive World titles from 2008-2010, seems to be able to coach forwards to punch way above their weight, excellent record in bringing on young players.

ii. Arguments against: still has another year left to run on his contract with the Chiefs.

iii. Realistically?: coaching the Chiefs would still be attractive (having retained the likes of Cane, Cruden, Kahui, Messam and Retallick) but with no new recruits, could be the time for a move to be made.

2. Wayne Smith:

i. Arguments for: assistant coach to Rennie who played a major part in taking the Chiefs to the S15 title, should actually have added Smith to Part 1 as I forgot he was All Blacks head coach from 2000-2001, assistant coach to 2011 ABs World Cup winners, 35 cap All Black himself so understands the international scene well, took Crusaders to 2 Super titles, spent 3 years with the Saints so has NH experience, by all accounts a superbly judged tactician and smart fellow.

ii. Arguments against: seems he is wedded to NZ, turned down an offer in May 2012 to join England's coaching staff and from the Western Force and Waratahs.

iii. Realistically?: his Chiefs contract only lasts for another year, so there is hope, possible that he wasn't offered the full head coach's job by the RFU - hence turning down England, would be a superb capture by the SRU.

3. Brendan Venter

i. Arguments for: World Cup winner in 1995, solid experience with London Irish and Sarries (taking Irish to the Powergen Cup in 2002 and Sarries to the Jeff title), very good record with the Stormers, absolute enforcer and will kick backsides as required.

ii. Arguments against: downsized to Technical Director at Sarries and is only in the country occasionally, patchy behavioural record - allegedly tw@tting a Tigers fan in May 2010 (LondonTiger - it wasn't you, was it?), intentionally giving a weird interview to ERC last December for a laugh, being publicly critical of the ERC, the tournament and its match officials (for which he was fined 22 grand), may be a bit of a loose cannon for the SRU.

iii. Realistically?: reason given for leaving role as DoR at Sarries in January 2011 was to take his young family back to South Africa, have read nothing to assume that this will change and so presumably may be a deal breaker.

4. Joe Schmidt

i. Arguments for: everything he touches seems to turn to gold, held the Log with the Steamers for 2 years, Top 14 winner with Clermont in 2010, Top 14 runners up in 2008 and 2009, Heinken Cup winner with Leinster in 2011 and 2012, Magners league runners up in 2011 and 2012, well organised, likeable, huge web of contacts in the game, seen to be a winner, well respected by the players, very good knowledge of Scottish rugby and players.

ii. Arguments against: intimately involved in all things Leinster, may not give up one of the NH's most plum franchise coaching jobs, would surely be expensive to buy out of a vice-like Leinster contract.

iii. Realistically?: having achieved everything at club/franchise level in French and Celtic leagues, may well be the time for a new challenge for him, would be an excellent choice, still quite a young man so it's feasible.

5. Vern Cotter

i. Arguments for: excellent club credentials, turned Clermont from croissant-like flakies to a team to be feared, good record with Bay of Plenty and Crusaders, winner of Top 14 title in 2010, only 50, well respected in the game, no nonsense flanker who has a reputation as a solid disciplinarian.

ii. Arguments against: how much of his success at Clermont was down to having Schmidt beside him?, has spent a seriously long time in France now as a player and coach and should be well settled there, possibly too settled to move?

iii. Realistically?: perhaps not as garlanded as other potential coaches, he would be a left field, but solid, option.

6. Guy Novès

i. Arguments for: long time coach of Tolouse, astonishing longevity and domestic record during his tenure: won the French championship ten times, the Heineken Cup four times (1996, 2003, 2005, 2010) and the French cup twice, many people still astonished that the French national team coaching job went to Lievremont after the 2007 world cup instead of him, arguably the most decorated coach never to have coached a national side, the Alex Ferguson of rugby.

ii. Arguments against: see above - why would you move from the south of France to Scotland? Tolouse's overall club budget this season in excess of 33 million euros, which is more than Perpignan’s and Biarritz’s put together.

iii. Realistically?: So very hard to see a career manager of the best NH club move to coach Scotland - what would make him move from a club that he's devoted 20 years to?

7. Todd Blackadder

i. Arguments for: 25 cap All Black so knows the international game well, only man to ever lift the Super rugby trophy three times as captain of the winning team, already has experience with SRU set up as forwards coach under Matt Williams and assistant coach to Edinburgh in 2004-2005 under his honour Franklyn Haddock, still shows a keen interest in Scots rugby - not least as a coach of young Scots players under the MacPhail Scholarship.

ii. Arguments against: would be a wrench to leave control of the Crusaders, may feel that he has already done his time in Scotland and wouldn't gain much by returning.

iii. Realistically?: depends entirely on whether he remembers his time in Edinburgh fondly. Closest of all these coaches to the Scottish game and his effort taking Scottish youngsters through the Canterbury coaching set up is very encouraging.

8. Steve Meehan

i. Arguments for: one of the best backs coaches in the world which is clearly what Scotland need desperately, has superb NH experience having worked as backs coach at Stade Français under Nick Mallett and then Fabien Galthié and with Bath, Stade reached the Final of the French Championship three years running under his tenure (winning in 2002/03 and 2003/04 and losing in extra time to Biarritz in 2004/05) and were 2005 Heineken Cup runners up, took Bath to their first silverware in 10 years (the European Challenge Cup in 2008), still remembered fondly after 5 formative years at the Rec.

ii. Arguments against: just joined the Western Force as the Super Rugby side's attack coach for the 2013 Super Rugby season. Oops.

iii. Realistically?: Force are perhaps not the magnet that they once were and it may not cost too much to buy out the contract, could be a very feasible option indeed and many felt that Mallett and Meehan was a classic coaching combination. Many fans first choice.

9. Jamie Joseph

i. Arguments for: his mark seems to be to make a great deal out of little resource, took the reins at a very unfashionable Wellington club and coached the team to consecutive domestic finals in 2008 and 2009 both against Canterbury, was appointed as New Zealand Maori Coach and in 2010 guided the team to a clean sweep against the NZ Barbarians, Ireland and a famous victory over England, definitely an attack minded coach, very much a rugby man and much liked.

ii. Arguments against: it's an exciting time to remain right where he is - Highlanders have signed Ma'a Nonu, Brad Thorn and Tony Woodcock in the off season who join an already incredibly impressive stable involving the likes of Aaron Smith, Tamati Ellison, Hosea Gear, Colin Slade and Ben Smith in the backline and Andrew "whoops sorry Bradley, didn't see all 6' 6" of you there" Hore amongst the forwards, his Highlanders started strongly but ultimately placed 9th in the Super 15 table this year.

iii. Realistically: perhaps more untested than many of the coaches here, he would be a fine choice for bringing on the younger players.

word on the street (most likely just rumours) is that Johnson is going to be the caretaker coach for the 6N's

Shudder......................

maybe I'm being optimistic, but I think the SRU have looked at how he performed as head coach of Ospreys and Wales and tried to look further afield by the sounds of the latest interviews. I really hope not I don't think Scotland needs a head coach like Johnson to take them into yet another trough of development.

Good descriptions of the candidates but many of them seem very doubtful in which case I find it incredible you don't mention Jake White. Of course he has probably higher aspirations but so do most of your other candidates.

What Jake White offers is knowing the strengths of his players and crafting out a gameplan and style of rugby that suits those strengths. But most of all he would be able to have the Scottish backs - too long the achilles heel of Scotland - running good lines, up flat and turning Scotland into a more rounded, complex beast that could break the opposition in a not so one-dimensional way. He'd be my first pick if you followed the Brumbies' fortunes this year.

Kia - Jake should have been mentioned part 1 of this thread (https://www.606v2.com/t37714-who-should-replace-andy-robinson-part-1) as he's an international coach.

Still cannot believe he'd come though, which is why I left him out. Would love it to be him but I cannot see it.

As Maitland predicted, Blackadder wants a S15 championship first before he'd throw in his hat with Scotland which is a shame as he's one of the few goosd coaches with a knowledge of the Scottish game.

I would love it to be Mallett and Meehan. This is going to be a huge test of the SRu's bravery and rugby knowledge. If it would be a franchise coach, then Schmidt or Smith would be amazing choices.

But trust me. Scotland fans on these boards are already braced for the disappointment of Scott Johnson being 'interim' coach for the 6N, followed by a long period of bumbling before Sean Lineen is given the job.

I am quite certain that with Rattue et al holding the pen in the press, Scotland are regarded as very much a joke nation in the sport. The thing is, though, I think that we're one good coach away from improving exponentially.

Guys, got a 606V2 end of year Scottish rugby awards thread going here

https://www.606v2.com/t38458-606v2-scottish-rugby-end-of-year-awards#1737854

Sorry George, didn't realise this was the sequel thread! There seems to be many names on both lists that are wishful thinking.

I very much hope Scotland goes bold and signs someone of quality. The problem for me is that coaches like AR and Hadden have always done things with the packs but little progress has been made in the backs. You need someone who can not only make the pack competitive but can add another dimension to the Scottish backs. For that you need someone with vision for the game. Even if you had someone like a head coach and then a figure like Brian Ashton as an attack coach would be an improvement on what you've had.

Don't worry what Rattue pens. He's the joke not Scotland. What you achieved earlier in the year should not be forgotten. What you did in the Autumn Internationals should also be remembered as what can happen when you don't address serious issues of backline attack and defence.

I really hope for your sake you get an international coach with proven ability who can extract improvement throughout the squad. That doesn't mean changing the way Scotland plays overnight but implementing a clear strategy of selection and moving the players towards a varied and coherent style of play. May all your Christmas wishes come true.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/20780494

Scott Johnson

Scotland will have back row forwards playing in the second row, flyhalf playing full back, full back playing centre, scrum half playing wing etc, etc and when its goes wrong it will be the player's fault.

Scotland's best chance in the 6N is against Wales as Johnson knows many of the players also Johnson has another advantage, Wales have even worse coaches in charge but with Preistland out Wales have a good chance of a win in stead of no chance.

He's only the interim coach - it's the 'Stuart Lancaster Effect' - i.e. give him a chance at the 6N: if he does badly, the SRU can say that it was only a temporary thing.

If he does well and we have a good 6N, then the SRU can claim that they are far sighted and strong willed geniuses and that they knew all along SJ could do it.

The terrible shame is that if we have a mediocre 6N (likely), then they'll probably keep SJ at the helm and claim that it's all 'encouraging' and that he 'needs more time'.

Horrible, gutless bs if that transpires to be what happens.

I think you have predicted the next 12 months or more.

Well thats another wooden spoon and another year at least to be wasted. this man is a failure and well known as one. He ai9n't worth threepence let alone e the huge sums he is getting