Scottish rugby

After a dismal performance against Tonga which, along with other poor results, culminated in the sacking of Andy Robinson. Was this performance a true reflection of Scotland or was it simply that the players had finally lost faith in Robinson and his selections. Are the problems deep rooted or will they be solved by a simple change of head coach? The way I see it, Scotland's first choice team is very good and can compete with the best, the second choices are good enough to compete on the international stage and in some, very few, positions the third choice is decent e.g the back row, full-back (Hogg, Brown, Tonks, Rory Lamont), after that you are down to very poor players such as Traynor.
Is there a serious problem with Scottish rugby? If so, what is it and how would you fix it?

A bit of both. the players are better than the results Robinson has been getting out of them but some are a bit complacent being big fish in a small pool and there is not a lot of depth to the squad

For example to full backs you list are 3 young inexperienced unproven players and one who never quite made it.

Fact: there are less international quality Scottish players than Scots poster think there are, and there are more international quality Scottish players than non-Scots posters believe there are! End of!!!!

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:Fact: there are less international quality Scottish players than Scots poster think there are, and there are more international quality Scottish players than non-Scots posters believe there are! End of!!!!

Think that is a good summary.

Apologies for the negative nature of my posts over the past few days but here comes another.

We keep hearing that Scotland has so many good players, I am not so sure. How many Scotland players would get in the Wales or Irish first XV if they were available and everyone is fit? Not basing on potential but what they have delivered at the top level?

We talk about other over hyping players, I genuinely think Scottish by and large are actually over-hyped!

Things will get better the coaching a youth level is night and day from what it was even 5 years ago. Problem is its going to take years for these boys to come through. It's not the talent at 18 and 19 that are going to improve us its the 10 and 11 years who are now, by and large getting coached better.

Firstly I'll go through the starting fifteen from Saturday and say who I think would get into another home nations team:

15. Hogg: Probably wouldn't be picked but only because Kearney, Foden and Halfpenny are quality. I think he will grow into a better player than all of them
14. Visser: A try machine, I believe he'd be picked for all other teams
13. Evans: Not a chance
12. Scott: Similar to Hogg but may be better than D'Arcy
11. Lamont: Past his best, wouldn't get near another team
10. Laidlaw: I'd rather him than Priestland
9. Pyrgos: Not good enough but probably third or fourth choice if all of the players were available and on form
8. Denton: A lions candidate, on form I believe he's the best in Britain
7. Brown: Not an openside, in fact I'd say he is the fourth best Scottish open side
6. Strockosch: Probably second or third best blindside in Scotland
5. Kellock: Similar to Strockosch, probably time to phase him out
4. Gray: Scotland's world class player he'd get into most teams in the world
3. Murray: I'd have him above all other than maybe Adam Jones
2. Lawson: In my opinion the fourth best hooker in Scotland behind Ford, MacArthur and Hall
1. Traynor: The least said the better


Of the team I'd like to start against England:
15. Hogg: same as above
14. Visser: Same as above
13. Bennett (on the condition he's had game time at Glasgow): Deemed to have great potential and may grow into a truly great player, therefore I believe we should "throw him in" in a similar way to North or Wilkinson. As I have not seen much of him I wouldn't know how good he is compared to his counterparts
12. Scott: same as above
11. Maitland: supposedly on the cusp of the New Zealand team so must be good, on that basis he'd probably make the Wales and England team
10. Weir: Similar to Hogg, he's young and has a lot of potential and a killer boot. I'd rather have him than Priestland or Flood
9. Blair: Past his best but arguably Scotland's most technically gifted player and I'd still rather have him than Phillips or Murray
8. Denton: Same as above
7. Rennie: Plays in a very competitive position but I'd have him on a par with Warburton as the best in Britain
6. Brown: As with Rennie he plays in a very competitive position, he's a world class player but I'd have Ferris and Lydiate ahead of him but he'd maybe sneak past Croft
5. Hamilton: Would compete for a position in most Six nations starting line ups
4. Gray: Same as above
3. Murray: Same as above
2. Ford: Plays in a competitive position, when on form and his line outs are going well I'd say he's one of the best, if not the best, in Britain. Sadly, currently he's woeful.
1. Grant: A revelation, how Robinson ignored him at Edinburgh I don't know, has helped to turn Scotland back into a side with a strong scrum. In my opinion he is a potential lion.


May I add that these are purely my opinion and therefore may be biased as ASBO says above.

Numbers - I certainly wouldn't take Visser in the Ireland team he may be a great finisher with great athleticism , but his defence is lousy.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/20478942

Start from about 1.50 in this clip, the Tonga and Connacht winger does a slight show and Visser completely misreads it, missed the 1on1 tackle and is left for dead. I think most of your rating above are very generous by the way.

Artful_Dodger wrote:Numbers - I certainly wouldn't take Visser in the Ireland team he may be a great finisher with great athleticism , but his defence is lousy.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/20478942

Start from about 1.50 in this clip, the Tonga and Connacht winger does a slight show and Visser completely misread it, missed the 1on1 tackle and is left for dead. I think most of your rating above are very generous by the way.

Fair enough but obviously I am slightly biased

123456789 wrote:

Artful_Dodger wrote:Numbers - I certainly wouldn't take Visser in the Ireland team he may be a great finisher with great athleticism , but his defence is lousy.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/20478942

Start from about 1.50 in this clip, the Tonga and Connacht winger does a slight show and Visser completely misread it, missed the 1on1 tackle and is left for dead. I think most of your rating above are very generous by the way.

Fair enough but obviously I am slightly biased

At least you are positive

Certainly a good read! Listen I think we have a number of potentially top class players. But at the moment we are well behind the other 6 Nations sides, bar Italy.

Throw Bennett in against Tuilagi at Twickenham?? Glasgow don't have enough matches between now and then to get him ready for that, and I suspect he won't go straight into the Glasgow starting XV either.

Sorry, I admire your optimism, but that is a crazy suggestion.

The short term fix is to swap Robinson for a better selector and a better coach. Provided the right appointment is made, the contrast in fortunes could be pretty stark (remember Gatland).

The longer term issues are structural, as we know. Not enough kids playing rugby, not enough supporters through the gates at Edinburgh and Glasgow, not enough money. Getting the two pro sides more successful is key. Improving the links between the two pro sides and between the non-pro leagues is important, as are marketing initiatives to get more kids playing at school. Nothing new here. Many of us said the same thing on the old 606 nearly a decade ago.

Regarding player hype, every nation is guilty of it. What's true in our case is that some seriously average players have come close to, and in come cases achieved, international caps in recent years. That we're even talking (seriously in some cases) about a boy who hasn't playing more than 80 minutes of professional rugby is telling. No other nation in world rugby talks about a player starting an international in two months time when that player has yet to play club rugby. I also hardly think that the likes of Murchie, Horne and Traynor (who I thought did a pretty decent job against Tonga as it happens) would be troubling any other top 12 side, including the island teams and Italy.

funnyExiledScot wrote:Throw Bennett in against Tuilagi at Twickenham?? Glasgow don't have enough matches between now and then to get him ready for that, and I suspect he won't go straight into the Glasgow starting XV either.

Sorry, I admire your optimism, but that is a crazy suggestion.

The short term fix is to swap Robinson for a better selector and a better coach. Provided the right appointment is made, the contrast in fortunes could be pretty stark (remember Gatland).

The longer term issues are structural, as we know. Not enough kids playing rugby, not enough supporters through the gates at Edinburgh and Glasgow, not enough money. Getting the two pro sides more successful is key. Improving the links between the two pro sides and between the non-pro leagues is important, as are marketing initiatives to get more kids playing at school. Nothing new here. Many of us said the same thing on the old 606 nearly a decade ago.

Regarding player hype, every nation is guilty of it. What's true in our case is that some seriously average players have come close to, and in come cases achieved, international caps in recent years. That we're even talking (seriously in some cases) about a boy who hasn't playing more than 80 minutes of professional rugby is telling. No other nation in world rugby talks about a player starting an international in two months time when that player has yet to play club rugby. I also hardly think that the likes of Murchie, Horne and Traynor (who I thought did a pretty decent job against Tonga as it happens) would be troubling any other top 12 side, including the island teams and Italy.

As I've said many times I'm only advocating throwing Bennett in if he's played well for Glasgow, but as for Tuilagi he's a pretty limited player and whilst I believe he's arguably the top 13 in Europe his game is one dimensional. Also it is very rare that you are one on one against your opposite number, unless you're on the wing, in the modern game, there are no easy games any more (as we saw on Saturday). Would your rather we wait until next November so he can start against Conrad Smith, Adam Ashley-Cooper or Jean De Villiers? Or that we do an Ireland and wait until he's in his his mid to late twenties before capping him by which time he'll have lost the youthful vigour. We need to introduce young, fast players to reinvigorate the likes of Hogg who seems to have lost some of his initial confidence. I'd like to see a young team with players like Kelly Brown, Ross Ford, Euan Murray and Mike Blair to steady the ship, I'd even consider replacing Rennie with Fusaro.

With everyone fit Scotland actually does have some depth

1 Grant, Welsh, Shiells
2 Ford, MacArthur, Hall, Lawson
3 Murray, Low, Cross
4 Gray, Ryder, Gilchrist
5 Hamilton, Kellock, Swinson
6 Brown, Strokosch, Harley
7 Rennie, Barclay, Fusaro
8 Denton, McInally, Beattie
9 Blair, Cusiter, Pyrgos, Lawson
10 Laidlaw, Weir, Heathcote, Jackson
11 Visser, Maitland, Evans
12 Scott, Dunbar, Horne
13 Ansbro, Bennett, De Luca, Grove
14 SLamont, Seymour, Jones
15 Hogg, Ramont, Brown, Tonks

We have player numbers, they’re just not all good enough. Should we just come to terms with the fact that this is as good as it gets, that we stay as a tier 3 team, battle it out for 2nd bottom in the 6 nations and live off the odd summer tour and AI victory? I’d like to think that this group of players, while they’ll never be world beaters, have the potential to move forward with the right man management and motivation.

Constantly calling up uncapped players only to have them sent home or sit on the bench is useless. If Robbo had used the Tonga game to blood a load of youngsters and left the dead wood at home I wouldn’t be as annoyed if we had lost and I’m sure he’d still have a job. At least it would have shown us that he does have an open mind to change. The game had no effect on the world cup draw and national pride wouldn’t have been as battered if we had fielded a young team. Luckily there is a gulf between us and 13th place or we’d be in danger of a catastrophic fall into pot 4 for the WC draw.

Too often we’re in a “time to rebuild” phase. When will we find a head coach who is able to take us past the first hurdle into the “we’re getting better” phase. Change was overdue, another bad 6N could have damaged the squad’s morale beyond repair. Now the players have a fresh start. There are no more “Robbo favourites”, everyone is in with a chance of making the squad if they impress the new/interim coach. The players have been given a clean slate to show us what they can do. Form will be rewarded as it should. This team will get better.

Remember with Bennet that even before his one Pro appearance he only played a handful of Prem 1 games. He played one year for Ayr and missed lots of games with age grade commitments. Previous to that he played with Cumnock, in what equated to around Div 7 of the Club Setup.

He is an excellent prospect and I think he can make it. Hope to god he does as the options at 13 otherwise is pretty bleak.

Can't see him making the 6 Nations although we will know if they are seriously thinking about if he is selected ahead of Maitland as our HC change.

I don't actually think it is all doom and gloom for Scottish rugby. Yes the autumn tests have been poor and the defeat against Tonga was terrible but we do have some good players and we do have good depth.
The problem has been the game plan/tactics and selection.
A lot of the players have been unhappy with those things for a while, more so the game plan/tactics which have been forced upon the players and has been too rigid that the players haven't been allowed to use their natural instinct. There has been no heads up rugby which a lot of the players are capable off.
The players have been coached to do certain things at each phase of play and even if something else has been on they have been instructed to do what they have been told to do.
Selection wise Robinson I don't think picked a team that was 100% on in my opinion, he may be a good forwards coach but selector he definitely is not, that is not his fault, the SRU would have none this when he took the job and they should have got others in there to help him do this.

123456789 wrote:Firstly I'll go through the starting fifteen from Saturday and say who I think would get into another home nations team:

15. Hogg: Probably wouldn't be picked but only because Kearney, Foden and Halfpenny are quality. I think he will grow into a better player than all of them
14. Visser: A try machine, I believe he'd be picked for all other teams
13. Evans: Not a chance
12. Scott: Similar to Hogg but may be better than D'Arcy
11. Lamont: Past his best, wouldn't get near another team
10. Laidlaw: I'd rather him than Priestland
9. Pyrgos: Not good enough but probably third or fourth choice if all of the players were available and on form
8. Denton: A lions candidate, on form I believe he's the best in Britain
7. Brown: Not an openside, in fact I'd say he is the fourth best Scottish open side
6. Strockosch: Probably second or third best blindside in Scotland
5. Kellock: Similar to Strockosch, probably time to phase him out
4. Gray: Scotland's world class player he'd get into most teams in the world
3. Murray: I'd have him above all other than maybe Adam Jones
2. Lawson: In my opinion the fourth best hooker in Scotland behind Ford, MacArthur and Hall
1. Traynor: The least said the better


Of the team I'd like to start against England:
15. Hogg: same as above
14. Visser: Same as above
13. Bennett (on the condition he's had game time at Glasgow): Deemed to have great potential and may grow into a truly great player, therefore I believe we should "throw him in" in a similar way to North or Wilkinson. As I have not seen much of him I wouldn't know how good he is compared to his counterparts
12. Scott: same as above
11. Maitland: supposedly on the cusp of the New Zealand team so must be good, on that basis he'd probably make the Wales and England team
10. Weir: Similar to Hogg, he's young and has a lot of potential and a killer boot. I'd rather have him than Priestland or Flood
9. Blair: Past his best but arguably Scotland's most technically gifted player and I'd still rather have him than Phillips or Murray
8. Denton: Same as above
7. Rennie: Plays in a very competitive position but I'd have him on a par with Warburton as the best in Britain
6. Brown: As with Rennie he plays in a very competitive position, he's a world class player but I'd have Ferris and Lydiate ahead of him but he'd maybe sneak past Croft
5. Hamilton: Would compete for a position in most Six nations starting line ups
4. Gray: Same as above
3. Murray: Same as above
2. Ford: Plays in a competitive position, when on form and his line outs are going well I'd say he's one of the best, if not the best, in Britain. Sadly, currently he's woeful.
1. Grant: A revelation, how Robinson ignored him at Edinburgh I don't know, has helped to turn Scotland back into a side with a strong scrum. In my opinion he is a potential lion.


May I add that these are purely my opinion and therefore may be biased as ASBO says above.

That team to start against England is pretty much on the money i would say. The obvious one is Bennett who i don't think will be quite ready for the 6 nations, I would probably go Joe Ansbro who is a cracking player, again I don't know how quick he is going to be back playing but he is in full training now with London Irish so hopefully game time won't be too far off for him.

There is a lot of things needing sorted with Scottish rugby but the players we have and younger ones coming through do give me encouragement, we just need to make sure the right ones are selected and coached well.

Majestic83 wrote:

123456789 wrote:Firstly I'll go through the starting fifteen from Saturday and say who I think would get into another home nations team:

15. Hogg: Probably wouldn't be picked but only because Kearney, Foden and Halfpenny are quality. I think he will grow into a better player than all of them
14. Visser: A try machine, I believe he'd be picked for all other teams
13. Evans: Not a chance
12. Scott: Similar to Hogg but may be better than D'Arcy
11. Lamont: Past his best, wouldn't get near another team
10. Laidlaw: I'd rather him than Priestland
9. Pyrgos: Not good enough but probably third or fourth choice if all of the players were available and on form
8. Denton: A lions candidate, on form I believe he's the best in Britain
7. Brown: Not an openside, in fact I'd say he is the fourth best Scottish open side
6. Strockosch: Probably second or third best blindside in Scotland
5. Kellock: Similar to Strockosch, probably time to phase him out
4. Gray: Scotland's world class player he'd get into most teams in the world
3. Murray: I'd have him above all other than maybe Adam Jones
2. Lawson: In my opinion the fourth best hooker in Scotland behind Ford, MacArthur and Hall
1. Traynor: The least said the better


Of the team I'd like to start against England:
15. Hogg: same as above
14. Visser: Same as above
13. Bennett (on the condition he's had game time at Glasgow): Deemed to have great potential and may grow into a truly great player, therefore I believe we should "throw him in" in a similar way to North or Wilkinson. As I have not seen much of him I wouldn't know how good he is compared to his counterparts
12. Scott: same as above
11. Maitland: supposedly on the cusp of the New Zealand team so must be good, on that basis he'd probably make the Wales and England team
10. Weir: Similar to Hogg, he's young and has a lot of potential and a killer boot. I'd rather have him than Priestland or Flood
9. Blair: Past his best but arguably Scotland's most technically gifted player and I'd still rather have him than Phillips or Murray
8. Denton: Same as above
7. Rennie: Plays in a very competitive position but I'd have him on a par with Warburton as the best in Britain
6. Brown: As with Rennie he plays in a very competitive position, he's a world class player but I'd have Ferris and Lydiate ahead of him but he'd maybe sneak past Croft
5. Hamilton: Would compete for a position in most Six nations starting line ups
4. Gray: Same as above
3. Murray: Same as above
2. Ford: Plays in a competitive position, when on form and his line outs are going well I'd say he's one of the best, if not the best, in Britain. Sadly, currently he's woeful.
1. Grant: A revelation, how Robinson ignored him at Edinburgh I don't know, has helped to turn Scotland back into a side with a strong scrum. In my opinion he is a potential lion.


May I add that these are purely my opinion and therefore may be biased as ASBO says above.

That team to start against England is pretty much on the money i would say. The obvious one is Bennett who i don't think will be quite ready for the 6 nations, I would probably go Joe Ansbro who is a cracking player, again I don't know how quick he is going to be back playing but he is in full training now with London Irish so hopefully game time won't be too far off for him.

There is a lot of things needing sorted with Scottish rugby but the players we have and younger ones coming through do give me encouragement, we just need to make sure the right ones are selected and coached well.

Maj. sadly he's a long way off from that - he's just had the cage taken off his head and neck, mucho mucho rehab to go for that young man, and still far from certain that he will ever play again

Hopefully he will be on the shorter end of the recovery scale, having suffered a pretty similar injury myself i know it is achievable, biggest challenge i found was the mental side of getting back onto the pitch but once that was over come I have had no bother and was back playing just after 4 months.
Definitely a player Scotland need in the team.

Ansbro is surely one of the better new players Scotland have introduced in recent times, always seems to do the right thing and is a very good defender. Here's hoping he makes a full recovery and plays for us again before long. If Ansbro is fit then Bennett would have to be really good to get the 13 shirt.

Recently on here and in the news it has been claimed that Scottish players lack the basic skills or composure to utilise them; the way I see it you don't get people "born to play rugby" or "born to play football" you simply get people with the speed, balance, strength and vision to be good at sport. I'm sure that if Dan Carter had been born in Britain he'd be a very good football player and if Wayne Rooney had been born in New Zealand he'd be a good rugby player. Often at schools the best players play for every school team, Duncan Weir was in the academy of Celtic or Rangers. The reason New Zealand are so good is because most of their "gifted sportsmen" go into rugby where they are given the best coaching by other gifted sportsmen. In Scotland football is the biggest sport and as a result that is where most of our " gifted sportsmen" go and we get left with enthusiastic players with a lack of that balance, vision and composure; obviously the football team aren't doing too well at the moment but that's irrelevant currently. The way scottish rugby can change that is to start trying to convince schools to play rugby and trying to gain a regular Saturday afternoon slot on a major channel for the pro teams, send national players to "sell the dream", if they tell them about the chance to play in the world cup, something that's unlikely in football, especially seeing as Rangers aren't doing too well in club football meaning there may be a lot of kids who are looking for something to aspire to. Edinburgh play in a 60,000 seat stadium of which 3,000 Seats are used, why not give tickets to local school kids, if they could give 57,000 kids the chance to regularly see the likes of David Denton and Tim Visser play then it will raise interest.
Another reason is that becaus of our small amount of pro teams and the major schools which give scholarships to top players then play traditional fixtures which they win easily our players aren't subjected to serious competition until they are 21/22, it is no surprise two of our best players play exactly the same position and are of the same school year, if the SRU created a league system which builds up from small local leagues (everyone loves playing their neighbouring school) to a national league (so our best teams and players play each other) thy could get sponsors to offer cash incentives to the winners and in this climate of cutbacks any school is desperate for more money, the higher standard of competition, the more high profile the sponsor, the bigger prize money and so schools will start encouraging rugby in an attempt to gain more money thus providing more competition, interest and a wider player base meaning we can create more pro teams and become competitive on a wide scale.


I'm not sure if that makes any sense I'm tired and got carried away but it sounded good when I was typing it.

Whoa there horsey! It's not that bad.

Robinson has had his set favourites for Scotland that have been past their best for a while.

A new coach will come in with an open mind and will hopefully pick a side on merit, rather than picking their favourites.

That's why I would rather a coach with no favourites and has had no previous involvement with Scottish rugby so they can make up their own minds about players.

123456789 wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:Throw Bennett in against Tuilagi at Twickenham?? Glasgow don't have enough matches between now and then to get him ready for that, and I suspect he won't go straight into the Glasgow starting XV either.

Sorry, I admire your optimism, but that is a crazy suggestion.

The short term fix is to swap Robinson for a better selector and a better coach. Provided the right appointment is made, the contrast in fortunes could be pretty stark (remember Gatland).

The longer term issues are structural, as we know. Not enough kids playing rugby, not enough supporters through the gates at Edinburgh and Glasgow, not enough money. Getting the two pro sides more successful is key. Improving the links between the two pro sides and between the non-pro leagues is important, as are marketing initiatives to get more kids playing at school. Nothing new here. Many of us said the same thing on the old 606 nearly a decade ago.

Regarding player hype, every nation is guilty of it. What's true in our case is that some seriously average players have come close to, and in come cases achieved, international caps in recent years. That we're even talking (seriously in some cases) about a boy who hasn't playing more than 80 minutes of professional rugby is telling. No other nation in world rugby talks about a player starting an international in two months time when that player has yet to play club rugby. I also hardly think that the likes of Murchie, Horne and Traynor (who I thought did a pretty decent job against Tonga as it happens) would be troubling any other top 12 side, including the island teams and Italy.

As I've said many times I'm only advocating throwing Bennett in if he's played well for Glasgow, but as for Tuilagi he's a pretty limited player and whilst I believe he's arguably the top 13 in Europe his game is one dimensional. Also it is very rare that you are one on one against your opposite number, unless you're on the wing, in the modern game, there are no easy games any more (as we saw on Saturday). Would your rather we wait until next November so he can start against Conrad Smith, Adam Ashley-Cooper or Jean De Villiers? Or that we do an Ireland and wait until he's in his his mid to late twenties before capping him by which time he'll have lost the youthful vigour. We need to introduce young, fast players to reinvigorate the likes of Hogg who seems to have lost some of his initial confidence. I'd like to see a young team with players like Kelly Brown, Ross Ford, Euan Murray and Mike Blair to steady the ship, I'd even consider replacing Rennie with Fusaro.

Firstly you are correct to say that there are no easy games for Scotland in international rugby, precisely why we need to assess players properly in professional rugby before we cap them. Secondly, whilst agreed on his limitations, Tuilagi is a bull, and those of us who saw snippets of Bennett at the JWC will have noticed that he's no Brian Lima in defence. Less chiropractor, more happy endings masseusse.....and that was trying to tackle kids. He'd be doing well to make a tour next summer. If he's good enough we should play him. Let's just wait and see.

As for Rennie over Fusaro, if you compare Fusaro's form at the end of last season to Rennie's at the beginning of this season, then I'd agree. On balance I'd probably stick with Rennie but I can see an argument both ways. Barclay appears to have waned slightly. I'd be quite happy seeing him move south to England. I think a change of scene might do him some good. It certainly didn't help having him mucked about at 8 and 6 last season.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:A new coach will come in with an open mind and will hopefully pick a side on merit, rather than picking their favourites.

That's why I would rather a coach with no favourites and has had no previous involvement with Scottish rugby so they can make up their own minds about players.

I hope you're right, but the papers seem to be full of suggestions that Lineen get the job. Parks and Morrison anyone??

funnyExiledScot wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:A new coach will come in with an open mind and will hopefully pick a side on merit, rather than picking their favourites.

That's why I would rather a coach with no favourites and has had no previous involvement with Scottish rugby so they can make up their own minds about players.

I hope you're right, but the papers seem to be full of suggestions that Lineen get the job. Parks and Morrison anyone??

If that's the case then Beattie Jnr can say goodbye to playing for Scotland again.

I'm not worried personally. I am studying sound technology at university just now and there is a very simple rule for recording which i think can also be applied to rugby. Here it is...

Good players + good coach + good equipment + good training + good tactics + good preparation = Good Team

If Scotland can tick all of those boxes then there is no reason why they cannot become a good team and consistently challenge every team they play against, especially with the crop of player coming through just now.

I don't think Robinson did a bad job with Scotland. The Scots are lacking quality players compared to most of the teams they play. What can the next coach do to improve things?

I can see a theme here: V Australia you take the high road, with Tonga you take the low road and I'll be in Murrayfield afore thee

profitius wrote:I don't think Robinson did a bad job with Scotland. The Scots are lacking quality players compared to most of the teams they play. What can the next coach do to improve things?

Have to disagree with your statement. Robinson has made a habit of picking the wrong players in the wrong position at the wrong time.

This is the best group of Scotland players for 10 years.

Robinson has made some woeful decisions in his tenure.

Hines at 6.
Kellock as Captain for the RWC.
Playing either Morrison or Lamont at either 12 or 13.
John Barclay at 8.
Kelly Brown at 7.
Nikki Walker playing at all.
Dickinson at tight head.
Parks Starting against England earlier in the year.

and finally his desperate act of throwing Heathcote into that abortion of a game at Pittodrie against Tonga. Heathcoate really did get a seriously bad deal at the weekend. Persued by Robinson to choose Scotland over England, thrown into a game and asked to come up with a desperate, last minute solution to an impossible problem that was created by other players.

Proper casino rugby. Robinson basicly bet the farm and lost.... big time. Now a bright young star for the future will have had his confidence damaged. Possibly permenantly.

Who ever comes in they can pick players with an open mind instead of their favourites!

I think Scotland are better than the Tonga performance but in reality I see close parallels with their football team who have just sacked a good man. Someone needs to make the most of the limited resources at their disposal - That's a big ask and I fear they may have some difficult times ahead. They will always be able to give anyone in the 6 nations a game but I fear for their lack of consistency and this can be quite demoralising for all concerned there.

Ruby - the best Scotland teams of the past were more than the sum of the parts. recently this has been the other way around. The right coach should be able to turn them into a real team again

TJ - I just thought AR's Scotland were 1 or 2 victories from getting there and the Tonga thing has set everything back. Against Engalnd in the 6 Nations you were the better team, same against Wales and again against England in the RWC - The SA game wasn't a complete disaster. The best Scotland teams in the past perhaps had better players than you give them credit for but I agree they were always galvanised - That has now disappeared to some extent and it takes time to redevelop. Careful consideration needs to be given to the next coach but he must have a scotsman alongside him in the Telfer/Jeffrey mould IMO. Maybe John Kirwan is the man for you - I think he's a class act

IMO scotlands good results / games were in spite of him not because of him IMO - and against England we were the worse team - look at the scoreboard.



Playing Parks in that game was an utter disaster and one that Robinson alone carries the can for. Not only did parks play worse than the average player he is but it sent out a signal that the attacking flair of the in form youngsters was not going to be used - Scotland were going to play a defensive game.
On eor or two wins away from being a good team ? 7 wins in the last 22 games 3 of which were against minnows and 2 warm up matches agaisnt b teams

TBH I think Scotland have missed Parks, I'd never advocate starting him but had we had him on instead of Heathcote I think we would have won. Latterly I was very harsh on Parks but whilst he was a defensive liability and as creative a spoon his kicking game could have helped us against SA and Tonga.

Missed Prks? NO we have not at all. He is a decent if not great layer if yo want to play territory and kicking. that gameplan does not suit our players. Do you remember the England game last year?

TJ wrote:Missed Prks? NO we have not at all. He is a decent if not great layer if yo want to play territory and kicking. that gameplan does not suit our players. Do you remember the England game last year?

I remember that and I know his many faults but I honestly believe had we had him on Saturday we would have won.

The Parks legacy is a strange one - yes he was immensely frustrating and was symptomatic of our limitations at the time, but there were certain games (like against SA in 2010) where I honestly think he walked on water.

I remember time and again we would turn the ball over (Barclay was brilliant that day as well), ship it to Parks, and he would land it on a sixpence in the opposition 22 - you could almost see the bemusement in the Bok forwards who had just driven 60 yards down-field only to go trudging back for a line-out.

Thankfully, I think we've moved on a bit. I think...

123456789 wrote:

TJ wrote:Missed Prks? NO we have not at all. He is a decent if not great layer if yo want to play territory and kicking. that gameplan does not suit our players. Do you remember the England game last year?

I remember that and I know his many faults but I honestly believe had we had him on Saturday we would have won.

and I am certain we would have lost by more by him kicking the ball back at their runners, he is far worse than Laidlaw at tackling so the 7 tackles laidlaw made would have been 7 runners in behind as well,