IRB Player of the year

First topic message reminder :

Simple question, who will it be this year? If not McCaw then who else might be in contention?

Richard McCaw having lead the ABs to victory in the inaugural RC, including a 17 match undefeated streak and probably an AI whitewash is once again the front runner for the annual prize having been piped to the finish by the incredible Thierry Dusatoir last year. He was also the only nominee from the NH last year.

Other outstanding performers for the ABs this year include Cory Jane, Kieran Reid, Dan Carter and Israel Dagg. Personally I think Dagg has been a revelation and probably shades Rob Kearney as the best full back in world rugby.

Bryan Habana (SA) and Lobbe (ARG) both preformed well in the RC. Habanna being the RC top try scorer and Lobbe did a good job as captain of Argentina in a very respectable performance and draw v SA in their first ever RC and a win over Wales in Cardiff.

Australia, England, Ireland and Scotland have no real stand out contenders although Rob Kearney was named ERC player of the year he has been injured for the whole AIs and summer tour and therefore is surely not in contention.

From France Julien Malzieu had a very good six nations but France have been hot and cold in 2012 so it is hard to pick any stand out performers. Personally I think Wesley Fofana has been impressive and 2013 may be his year.

From Wales Dan Lydiate was named six nations player of the tournament, Cuthbert, North and halfpenny were all also outstanding. However, it is unlikely to be a Welsh player given their summer tour and AI record has been quite poor.

Other facts:
BOD is the only player to get three nominations and not to win the award.
No Australian has ever won player of the year.
Ireland is the most nominated NH country.
Mike Blair is the only Scot to have been nominated.
Keith Wood is the only non back row or back to have won the award.
Jan Serfontein beat off Irelands JJ Hanrahan to win 2012 young player of the year.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/best-of-sport-analysis/news/article.cfm?c_id=1502180&objectid=10850176
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IRB_International_Player_of_the_Year

What about Savea? the lad is truely class

viewtothegym wrote:What about Savea? the lad is truely class

The Kiwis still havent really warmed to him as he makes a lot of mistakes in each game despite his prolific strike rate.

Who else works for Sky other then Scott and Will? Would two be enough to force a nomination for a player through? Not to bang on about it, but this is the most bizarre selection anyone could have came up with.

From the IRB press release
http://www.irb.com/history/awards/newsid=2064520.html#irb+player+year+shortlist+revealed

...
The IRB Player of the Year nominees were selected by the IRB Awards independent panel of judges, which is chaired by Australia’s RWC 1999 winning captain John Eales and is made up of former internationals with more than 500 caps and four Rugby World Cup winners’ medals between them.

The IRB Awards panel comprises some of the biggest names in the Game in Will Greenwood, Gavin Hastings, Raphaël Ibanez, Francois Pienaar, Agustín Pichot, Scott Quinnell, Tana Umaga and Paul Wallace.

The panel have deliberated on every major Test played in 2012, starting with the opening RBS 6 Nations match and culminating with the November Internationals. In total they have watched around 100 hours of action, awarding points to the three players they thought stood out in each match.
“This has been one of the closest years to date. In fact the result could be influenced significantly by this weekend’s matches, making it a highly contested prize,” said panel chairman Eales.

Among those players unlucky to miss out on the shortlist are New Zealand number 8 Kieran Read, Australian duo Michael Hooper and Berrick Barnes, Scotland’s Ross Rennie, Springbok wing Bryan Habana and Argentina’s inspirational captain Juan Martín Fernandez Lobbe.

So I'm guessing Farrell earned lots of points in the 6N?

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:From the IRB press release
http://www.irb.com/history/awards/newsid=2064520.html#irb+player+year+shortlist+revealed

...
The IRB Player of the Year nominees were selected by the IRB Awards independent panel of judges, which is chaired by Australia’s RWC 1999 winning captain John Eales and is made up of former internationals with more than 500 caps and four Rugby World Cup winners’ medals between them.

The IRB Awards panel comprises some of the biggest names in the Game in Will Greenwood, Gavin Hastings, Raphaël Ibanez, Francois Pienaar, Agustín Pichot, Scott Quinnell, Tana Umaga and Paul Wallace.

The panel have deliberated on every major Test played in 2012, starting with the opening RBS 6 Nations match and culminating with the November Internationals. In total they have watched around 100 hours of action, awarding points to the three players they thought stood out in each match.
“This has been one of the closest years to date. In fact the result could be influenced significantly by this weekend’s matches, making it a highly contested prize,” said panel chairman Eales.

Among those players unlucky to miss out on the shortlist are New Zealand number 8 Kieran Read, Australian duo Michael Hooper and Berrick Barnes, Scotland’s Ross Rennie, Springbok wing Bryan Habana and Argentina’s inspirational captain Juan Martín Fernandez Lobbe.

So I'm guessing Farrell earned lots of points in the 6N?

mustve been for kicking goals, because theres not much else going on with him

Owen Farrell?

Has there ever been a more ridiculous name on the shortlist?

And yet Keiran Read doesn't make the shortlist? Bizzare.

wales606 wrote:Owen Farrell?

Has there ever been a more ridiculous name on the shortlist?

And yet Keiran Read doesn't make the shortlist? Bizzare.

Only 3 players get points each match - Read has to compete with McCaw and Carter for points. In terms of the points it's better to be a good player in an average team than a great player in a great team. England did finish 2nd in the 6N, and they're a team without any real stars, so I guess Farrell earnt a fair few points by default.

And with Michalak he had 2 or 3 man-of-the-match performances in his 4 tests this year.

Rugby world.....

As an England fan I'm embarrassed by the inclusion of Owen Farrell, please accept our humble apologies.

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:

wales606 wrote:Owen Farrell?

Has there ever been a more ridiculous name on the shortlist?

And yet Keiran Read doesn't make the shortlist? Bizzare.

Only 3 players get points each match - Read has to compete with McCaw and Carter for points. In terms of the points it's better to be a good player in an average team than a great player in a great team. England did finish 2nd in the 6N, and they're a team without any real stars, so I guess Farrell earnt a fair few points by default.

And with Michalak he had 2 or 3 man-of-the-match performances in his 4 tests this year.

Presumably he's got his nomination on the basis of the Scotland, Italy and France games in the Six Nations then. Seems bizarre that the selection system can reward a solid performance in a rubbish game so highly, but that there's no system for deducting points.

Think Hore may have ruled himself out

I've given up on this after the disgrace of 2009, the award is a joke, if anyone should win it its fourie du preez or BOD for being so heinously robbed in previous years.

Farrell?! Not even England's player of the year, jesus!

No Wales GrandSlam players then?

But Englands second choice kicking 10, and Sarries second choice kicking 10 gets the nod

Coleman wrote:Who else works for Sky other then Scott and Will? Would two be enough to force a nomination for a player through? Not to bang on about it, but this is the most bizarre selection anyone could have came up with.

You could add Paul Wallace into the Sky team couldn't you?

EnglishReign wrote:Farrell?! Not even England's player of the year, jesus!

Not even sarries' player of the year.

And in a few weeks time will be England's 3rd choice FH (and about 10th centre)

Michelak for me is just as odd. Both Farrell and Freddy are good players but they aren't best in the world good.

I guess it is a bit of an odd year though as only Kiwis stood out so I spose they had to pick someone.

Habana - top RC scorer
Dan Lydiate, North or Cuthbert all also had better seasons.

Oh well.

My guess is DC will nick it.

This thing gets more wacky every year. The inclusion of Farrell and Michalak means we shouldn't waste any more space on it. It has lost all credibility.

Farrell isn't even his Dad's first choice...

GLove39 wrote:Farrell isn't even his Dad's first choice...

Yes amazing. Sharpe, Habana, Read, Dagg, Savea, C Smith have all done more than Farrell and Michelak this year.

The write up even acknowledges that Farrell has lost his position to Flood during the year. So in the year he's nominated he's not even first pick for his side. And they knew this when nominating him in the top 4 on the planet.

You just gotta wonder...as well as a truckload of people not knowing how to play the game, they dont even know when its played well.

In fairness to Freddie he deserves it for knocking the ABs out of the 07 WC even if he isn't that good anymore.

Dan Lydiate?

Taylorman wrote:Yes amazing. Sharpe, Habana, Read, Dagg, Savea, C Smith have all done more than Farrell and Michelak this year.

The write up even acknowledges that Farrell has lost his position to Flood during the year. So in the year he's nominated he's not even first pick for his side. And they knew this when nominating him in the top 4 on the planet.

You just gotta wonder...as well as a truckload of people not knowing how to play the game, they dont even know when its played well.

Nah. The problem is they decided to make a fairly transparent system for awarding and totting up points, so they could not be accused of bias - then found it had given them a silly result. It is not that they have looked at the year and said Farrell is one of the 4 best players in the world, rather they have looked match by match and identified the 3 most influential players in each game and totted them up.

Not disimilar to the shortlist for 6Ns player of the year being eligible to just the individual MoTM winners.

With the IRB scheme - a successfull goal kicker is always likely to stand a chance - especially if they are in a team playing no rugby.

Perhaps but common sense must prevail in any system. It makes them look dumb. Transparency doesnt necessarily translate to fair or accurate, in fact it proves the opposite here somewhat. I do recall the issues they had with the selections and its not an easy task.

(Oddly McCaw seems to be able to beat any system it seems)

Bloody hell, i've been calling Farrel golden boy as an insult for weeks. Who'd have thought i'd be so right all along.

His dad must have lots of incriminating photos of various ex rugby players...

Given that McCaw is bound to win I don't think it really matters who else is on the shortlist.

Farrell is an interesting choice for sure.

sirtidychris wrote:I've given up on this after the disgrace of 2009, the award is a joke, if anyone should win it its fourie du preez or BOD for being so heinously robbed in previous years.

And 2008 and 2011.

wales606 wrote:Owen Farrell?

Has there ever been a more ridiculous name on the shortlist?

And yet Keiran Read doesn't make the shortlist? Bizzare.

NO AND THERE NEVER WILL BE AGAIN. COMPLETE JOKE, NOT A FUNNY ONE BUT A JOKE NEVERTHELESS

LOUD NOISES!!

LondonTiger wrote:
With the IRB scheme - a successfull goal kicker is always likely to stand a chance - especially if they are in a team playing no rugby.

Ironic - as the fact that the team is playing no rugby is often down to the fly half.

Well having scrolled through the last few posts glad to see I am not the only one puzzled by at least two of the nominations.

How Carter and McCaw got in there I just don't know

bedfordwelsh wrote:Well having scrolled through the last few posts glad to see I am not the only one puzzled by at least two of the nominations.

How Carter and McCaw got in there I just don't know

yappysnap wrote:LOUD NOISES!!

Taylorman wrote:Yes amazing. Sharpe, Habana, Read, Dagg, Savea, C Smith have all done more than Farrell and Michelak this year.

Amazing? ok Farrel might look as strange choice but had a decent 6N and was never horrible in the test mathes while Michalak has only played 4 test matchs albeit at top level (+some very good games with Sharks). granted they are jsut making up numbers but deserve to be respected and are not worst than some of the name you mention...

Habana has scored a few tries against SH leaking defenses such as Argentina's. big deal. Sharpe is not the line out master he used to be. Read looks good because he plays alongside McCaw but is he the best N8 in the world? I dont think so. am not too sure about Dagg :did he start most of the AB games? Savea is still only a talented rookie in my modest opinion. As for Conrad Smith I agree he has done enough to be at least nominated. but you are right why not nominate the full ABs team plus a token south african...

If Sharpe had been on the list it would have seemed like just a pat on the back by old comrades.

What he has done is admiral but not worthy of a IRB world player of the year nomination. A solid performance mind all year long. If so then JDV should have got one too for steering the boks to respectability when many had serious doubts.

I also saw someone mention Cuthbert of Wales... jokes.

Read is over rated. He just looks good in the RC because there isnt any other decent 8s in the SH.

Yeah, Lobbe and Vermeulen are totally pathetic players.... Heaslip, Morgan and Faletau would walk into the bok lineup.

Lobbe does raise standards considerably. However, in the SH the likes of Pierre Spies are still referred to as "world class".

Pierre Spies has massive expectations on him because he's an absolute unit and has enough pace to play wing for his province. He's a fantasy rugby fans' player. All the stats. Also because SR is more open he is able to exploit big gaps and do deep runs into the opposition. You just don't see that space in test rugby.

He's a good tackler and a very good lineout operator.... in terms of backrow I would put him up their with Croft and Smith as the best backrow lineout operators in the game.

Spies may not in the same bracket as Read but he's really upped his game this season and none of the starting No8 in the home nations would beat him to a place in a test side if they all played for the same country. He may not be first choice in SA anymore but that doesn't mean he's not class.

By that Spies is in the top5 No8 in the world and if that is a definition of world class then he's world class.

yappysnap wrote:LOUD NOISES!!

Genuinely just laughed out loud. In the office.

Thanks Yappy.


I love lamp.

Spies started great for the boks, and had promises to be huge, but I think never the same since he came back from hospitialization, which is a shame

The expectations on him are huge... People look at him and think, "wow "6'5, 110kg and able to run the 100 in sub11... the 2nd quickest guy in his province and he's a No8....this guy should be breaking tackles like Lomu".

If he doesn't do a massive linebreak people think he's a liability.

I'm a WP man and think Vermeulen is a better player (perhaps slight bias), in fact I rate Kankowski over him but he's still a very good player.... its just the other 2 skill wise are superior IMO.

He'd walk into any 6N side, well bar Italy perhaps.... amazing thought that.

fa0019 wrote:Pierre Spies has massive expectations on him because he's an absolute unit and has enough pace to play wing for his province. He's a fantasy rugby fans' player. All the stats. Also because SR is more open he is able to exploit big gaps and do deep runs into the opposition. You just don't see that space in test rugby.

He's a good tackler and a very good lineout operator.... in terms of backrow I would put him up their with Croft and Smith as the best backrow lineout operators in the game.

Spies may not in the same bracket as Read but he's really upped his game this season and none of the starting No8 in the home nations would beat him to a place in a test side if they all played for the same country. He may not be first choice in SA anymore but that doesn't mean he's not class.

By that Spies is in the top5 No8 in the world and if that is a definition of world class then he's world class.

Heaslip, Parisse, Picamoles & Harinordiquy are all much better than Spies. Some would say Faletau is too. So no he is not in the top 5 in world rugby.

He wrapped up Heaslip during the Lions tour in 09 well and truly. I can't see how Heaslip is better. Faletau either.

Thats your opinion which I respect, but for me I would say that Spies plays a higher level of rugby than the above... nearly ever game both club and country and has 50 odd caps for the boks.

You don't get to 50 caps for the Boks without being a world class operator... and was constantly chosen by White, De Villliers and now Meyer.

I would say Parisse yes, Harinordiquy equal. But thats me... and given I am a supporter of his arch rivals I can't be seen to be biased.

fa0019 wrote:He wrapped up Heaslip during the Lions tour in 09 well and truly. I can't see how Heaslip is better.

He did in his vag. Heaslip was all over him. he was one of the Lions best players.

fa0019 wrote:He wrapped up Heaslip during the Lions tour in 09 well and truly. I can't see how Heaslip is better. Faletau either.

Thats your opinion which I respect, but for me I would say that Spies plays a higher level of rugby than the above... nearly ever game both club and country and has 50 odd caps for the boks.

You don't get to 50 caps for the Boks without being a world class operator... and was constantly chosen by White, De Villliers and now Meyer.

I would say Parisse yes, Harinordiquy equal. But thats me... and given I am a supporter of his arch rivals I can't be seen to be biased.

I think you might have this the wrong way round. In the run up to the Lions tour we (us nordie hemisphers...hemispheristas...hemispherlters....hmmmmmm) were all told that Spies was 'world class' and would dominate Heaslip. Well actually, they pretty much just neutered each other. You post as if Heaslip was the world leading 8 at the time and Spies dominated him with is just patently untrue. The only thing either player can claim is they kept the other one quiet. Spies and Heaslip world class? I'm afraid not. They are capable of the odd world class performance but they do not do it anywhere near consistently enough to fall into that bracket.

Outside of the Versfeld no one in SA have ever been fever pitch over Spies... we've seen him as a good player, but the least talented out of the backrow of the era of himself, Burger and Smith.

But that doesn't mean I don't think he's as a world class operator, world class as in amongst the top No8 in the world.

When I mentioned Heaslip it was just an example which came up as someone who was stated to be better than him..... which in my opinion is not the case... hence my Lions example.

Hookisms and Hyperbole wrote:

fa0019 wrote:He wrapped up Heaslip during the Lions tour in 09 well and truly. I can't see how Heaslip is better. Faletau either.

Thats your opinion which I respect, but for me I would say that Spies plays a higher level of rugby than the above... nearly ever game both club and country and has 50 odd caps for the boks.

You don't get to 50 caps for the Boks without being a world class operator... and was constantly chosen by White, De Villliers and now Meyer.

I would say Parisse yes, Harinordiquy equal. But thats me... and given I am a supporter of his arch rivals I can't be seen to be biased.

I think you might have this the wrong way round. In the run up to the Lions tour we (us nordie hemisphers...hemispheristas...hemispherlters....hmmmmmm) were all told that Spies was 'world class' and would dominate Heaslip. Well actually, they pretty much just neutered each other. You post as if Heaslip was the world leading 8 at the time and Spies dominated him with is just patently untrue. The only thing either player can claim is they kept the other one quiet. Spies and Heaslip world class? I'm afraid not. They are capable of the odd world class performance but they do not do it anywhere near consistently enough to fall into that bracket.

Tend to agree. Neither has done well our way though Heaslip didnt do himself favours with the red. Spies tends to get talked up about his physique and speed etc but when the match starts he's hardly seen. Burger and Smith both true giants of the game. Love it when Burger is on the field against the AB's. And so does he!

Spies is a bit like Croft. A real athlete. But unlike Croft who later made some advances, Spies never found a way to impose himself on the game. He disappeared in the contact in the big games and didn't do much in the open either. It was always a mystery to me how he got so many caps in a country where there are so many big, physical back rowers.

I think Spies is ok to be honest, gets a bit of unfair stick..... Alberts makes him look a bit like an anorexic hobbit on sedatives though.....