are people getting carried away with Craig Gilroy, and could the hype be damaging for him?

Craig Gilroy in contention for Lions place - Warren Gatland
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/20538840

Now I'd say this is a nothing article, if Gatland was asked about any home nations winger he'd say they were in contention.

I'm a fan of Gilroys and have high hopes for him, but talk of lions, maybe in my opinion is a little to soon.

Lets not forget that he hasn't displaced Trimble in the Ulster team yet, and nobody is suggesting Trimble makes the Lions squad.

The Gilroy/Trimble selection at Ulster is going to be intresting
Trimple played 5+1 scored 2 tries Ireland (49 caps)
Gilroy Played 4+3 2 tries Ireland (1 caps)

Gilroy defintally has more flair, and attack minded but Trimble still gets tries, defensivley is better, and puts in some big hits.

For me there is a bit to much hype round Gilroy at present, put he still has a way to go yet, and their are a lot of winger pushing for 2 places at present, he would need to have an amazing 6 nations to make the squad.

But for me at the minute I would like the press around Gilroy to die down a little, there's been a little to much hype and the press love to build people up to watch them fall. Let him continue to perform for Ulster untill Feb and see if he is starting ahead of Trimble, before we put him in the Ireland team, never mind Lions squad.

Gilroy has only played in two dead rubber matches for Ireland where the opposition would struggle against Zebre in a Rabo fixture the way they played. The acid test for Gilroy will be the 1st 6N match away to Wales if he is picked.

We need to see how well he steps up to the mark in a match where Ireland are on the back foot.

He does look good though.

He may not even get picked for Ulster as trimble and bowe are currently ahead of him. Therefore, come 6N time Zebo actually may get picked ahead of him when Kearndog returns to full health.

His involvement in the Six Nations- and therefore any Lions hopes he may have- all depends on how much gametime he gets in the next four Heineken Cup games for me.

The reason he wasn't getting picked ahead of Trimble for Ulster was for his defence. That hasn't really changed, he still struggles positionally in defence. He's got massive potential and I would expect him to be come an Ulster and Ireland regular over the next few years as he continues to work on that aspect of his game.

I think now he's had a good game against Argentina, people are getting excited about him. They are right to be excited, he's very talented. He's not going to fulfill all that potential overnight though.

No I don't think people are getting carried away and Gilroy looks a level headed lad so I'm not worried about the hype getting to him.

He's been getting better and better for the past few seasons and is a very complete player now. He's been starting for Ulster for the past 2 seasons so hasn't just dropped out of the sky. Bowe's return to Ulster has thrown a spanner in the works for him but by the looks of things it's spurred him on to find another gear from last season.

He's caught Gatlands eye so the Lions selection is in his own hands now. I don't think Gatland will care too much if Kidney picks him or not as long as he's impressing for Ulster.

Scored a very good try v Munster in the Heino last year. Bit of excitement over that too.

From March until the end of the season he was the best back in the country. It was a scandal that he was left off the NZ tour.

He isn't an overnight sensation, he's worked hard to get where he is and this recognition is long overdue. In my oppinion of course

GunsGerms wrote:Scored a very good try v Munster in the Heino last year. Bit of excitement over that too.

Awk but sure, its only Munster. He needs to step it up against a decent side first.

I thought he had a decent enough match against Argentina. He ran with the ball well but we need to be realistic. He was caught out of position badly twice and missed two easy tackles. He also struggled to have any influence in the match after 30 minutes. It was an encouraging performance for sure. But he has a lot of work to do.

I haven't been around in a few days. Once I had my hearing checked after I swore I heard Alan Quinlan say ROG was in Lions contention, I almost died laughing when Farrell was named as a contender for IRB player of the year. I'm really worried lads. The apocalypse is coming. Where's me bible?

Ah yes, here it is. Revelation 13:16-17.


It was foretold and it is so.

Hookisms and Hyperbole wrote:
I haven't been around in a few days. Once I had my hearing checked after I swore I heard Alan Quinlan say ROG was in Lions contention, I almost died laughing when Farrell was named as a contender for IRB player of the year. I'm really worried lads. The apocalypse is coming. Where's me bible?

Ah come on now Hook.... Like Rog for the Lions is ridiculous but I think Chris Farrell is a fair shout for IRB player of the year. I'm sick of people running down our young chaps man.....

Some people may be getting carried away with young Craig but others of us, I hope see the player he is now and the potential he has to become an excellent player.

The lad is 21 and has already been through 2 Schools Cup campaigns, underage representation for Ulster and Ireland., scored the first every try at our new national stadium and, is it 6 tries in a green jersey.

He also played in every game of Ulster's HEC campaign last year through to and including the final and is in his second season of Euopean rugby.

He is very young but also quite experienced. He has flaws in his game but has shown the dedication and desire to work on those aspects that do let him down at times. Certainly, he did that at school and in his first season at Ulster.

I think he has the potential to be an excellent player and I hope he gets the space and time to do that. My only concern is that he gets hammered the first time he has a bad game. And, he will have a bad game.

So far he has not looked out of his depth at any game I have seen him play at any level including facing Munster at Thomond and being part of a team that came so very close to ending ASM's invincibility at home.

Get carried away all you like but this kid has the potential to be the real deal and seems to have the personality to allow him to fulfill it.

Watch this space.

Well summed up by MrsP there, we can pretty much close this thread!

Great post Mrs P... I'd probably be a bit more bullish in terms of where he is as a player right now but that's a fair assessment.

I think its important that Craig is let off the leash now though and not held back.

Next step up for him has to be the 6N and then the Lions is a very realistic target. As with O'Driscoll and Jason Robinson in 2001, Gilroy could be a sensation on the hard grounds down under. If he does get selected he'd have more experience than those guys had back then (excluding Robinson RL experience).

wait to you see maitland play is all i say

i mean that guy is different class

Good piece by Quinlan:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2012/1128/1224327205977.html

Yes and yes.

At the end of the day the fans want young heroes to rally behind and CG provides a marketing dream. The Lions is a big machine squeezing money out of fans who won't keep paying for repeat showings. Every Lions squad HAS to have some new B&I hope to capture the imagination of the gullible. Gilroy is as good as the next man to fulfil the prodigiously talented but inexperienced slot the way Earls did last time around...

Quite a cynical view Aukster?

The Lions always has the capacity to make or break a young mans career but for me if you are good enough you are old enough. Gilroy is older than North and at least as experienced as O'Driscoll was in 2001, or at least will be come the tour.

If he is one of the best wingers in the home nations, and right now he is, then there is no reason why he shouldn't go. If he isn't then he won't and he will have other opportunities down the line.

Gilroy is in a win win situation here.

The guy with the big pressure on his shoulders following the Autumn is not Gilroy ... but Trimble who at only 28 is at a real cross roads in his career for province and country.

to be fair to gilroy he offers something different to bowe, cuthbert, north, visser etc

he has the ability to beat defenders in tight spaces with his side step and is so elusive. Rare amongst the giant wings of today (not that Gilroy is a midget)

Not surprised he is on Gatlands radar. Having said that bigger tests will come in the 6 nations. As of now i would start him, just hope he starts some games for Ulster before then

Dublin Dave,

I'm not sure I totally agree on the "..hope he starts some games for Ulster before then" thing.

He is getting plenty of game time here as it stands, 399 mins for Ulster so far this season. I think we need to get away from the whole "if he's not good enough to start for Ulster...." way of thinking especially as we happen to have 3 of them best wings in Ireland here just now. They all need game time to keep them sharp in both White and Green.

There should be no shame in starting a game on the bench if you have a coach who uses his bench well, ie. not seeing them as the next best few players who can fill in for injury, but rather a way of changing games.

I would imagine he will begin to wear 11 or 14 more often than 23 but we need to keep all 3 of them ready for Ulster and Ireland.

I also think that Anscombe has backed Trimble up to now and more often than not he has delivered. I'd be disappointed and surprised if Gilroy was selected ahead of Trimble based on performances elsewhere.

It's a competitive area and no one should feel comfortable, especially given Paynes versatility.

I'm actually hoping that Payne might get a rest on Sunday and we'll see Gilroy and Trimble start.

Was very impressed with what I saw of Gilroy last Saturday - seemed to have great balance and elusiveness, which sets him apart from most of the other wingers that are Lions eligible (North, Cuthbert, Visser, Lamont and to some extent Bowe all being giants and relying on power, Ashton being more a straight-line support runner - only players I see with similar attributes are Foden and Hogg, and they're more fullbacks).

The quality of his AI performances has certainly put him into the frame as a potential Lion, but there's obviously up to 5 Tests in the 6Ns to come, which could either enhance his reputation or see him largely nullified as the defenders figure him out. How he handles these games now that there is more knowledge of his style will be interesting.

The commentators were calling him the new Shane Williams. I saw no such thing.

Great post DH ... his style is quite akin to a lot of RL players... like the Paul brothers ...with the hip swerve, step and pirouette but has that top level speed too, would you agree?

9 defenders beaten against Argentina is pretty staggering in the modern game against a top side I think. More than the rest of the backline put together.

Rodders

Interesting observation about the similarities with the likes of the Paul's - I certainly see what you are getting at. It's the balance and the ability to be just that foot or so away from where the defender expects you to be, so that instead of getting nailed by the tackler's shoulder, you go through their arm and continue running. And yes, Gilroy definitely looks to have the gas to exploit the situation once he's beaten his man (something I never possessed - I'd get caught from behind...by props).

He reminded me of Robbie Paul right from when he came on the scene. Honestly though I intially thought he was more style than substance but have got that pretty wrong...

What I like about him though is that he has really improved his orthodox skills without having a negative impact on his natural flair. He's not the finished article yet but I'm pretty excited at the level he's reached already.

I'd love to see more of him. What I saw looked great but it's far too little to judge a player on and I've yet to see him against a really strong defense (sorry but Argentina were not the best that week).

Hopefully he'll be sensible enough to realize the hype is nothing to take seriously.

This is a player that I'd love to see in Connacht now. I was sickened by Fionn Carr's move to Leinster, he's hardly ever played there and was scoring all over the place for Connacht last year who need him. Connacht can give talented players the chance to play, not warm benches or worse, train full time. What's the point in having a traffic jam of backs in three provinces and one desperate for talented players? It'll be typical of the Irish rugby set up if Gilroy hardly ever plays for Ulster and is dropped out of the Irish set up while Connacht sink down the pro 12 table. Maybe he'll be lucky and there'll be another swathe of injuries that force them to pick him again. It's getting to the point where I want to start throwing heaps of banana skins around Donnybrook. I'm not sure how to lure people to the West though. Free smoothies for life? All the spinach they could eat? Sadly I think great heaps of cash is what's needed.

Intotouch,

I can only guess but my feeling is that it would take an enormous amount of cash to lure anyone away from Ravenhill just now.

As I mentioned above, Gilroy has played 399 mins for Ulster so far (11 games) so he is not wasting his time here at all. The fact that he was spotted and selected for Ireland shows he is getting chances to display his talents. I can't see how any team can hope to be successful without an extensive squad.

I can't see any lad who has grown up dreaming of playing for Ulster giving that up for cash alone. Maybe if they were really surplus to requirements and saw no future here but it would take a huge incentive to leave the Province you grown-up watching and dreaming of representing especially when they are enjoying some degree of success.

Its important to point out that Gilroy has nearly 50 starts for Ulster and is in his 3rd season as a first team regular. Not sure where this myth comes from that he never plays.

Anscombe has preferred Trimble and Bowe (two seasoned international wings) on a couple of occasions recently, lets keep that in perspective.

Should Fergus McFadden be farmed out to Connacht too because he may not start if Leinster had a full deck? Carr is way down the pecking order at Leinster but Gilroy is a key player for us and is going nowhere.

What on earth intotouch? Gilroy doesn't 'hardly ever' play for Ulster- he's been involved in every matchday squad he's been available for this season, he's gotten pitch time in every game he's been named for. He played every game in our Heineken Cup run last year!

He's getting gametime for Ulster. He's got a good chance now of starting for Ulster next week against Saints and if he doesn't start he WILL be involved off the bench. It won't take a swathe of injuries for him to start against Saints, just a good game on Sunday. It's a 50/50 call between Gilroy and Trimble and it won't take much to tip the scales either way.

I genuinely think this mindset is out of touch with modern rugby, which is all about squad depth. Ulster have worked hard on their squad depth through recruitment and their Academy structures to try and develop 30/40 players who can slot into the first team when needed because that is what you need to be successful and it's been borne out this season. Everyone in our squad has seen gametime this year. On the wings Bowe, Trimble, Gilroy and Michael Allen have all had plenty of gametime this year.

I can see why you would be indignant if his path was being blocked by an NIQ player or even a project player. But you have three players who first picked up a rugby ball in Ulster, have come through the Ulster Schools system, made it into the Ulster Academy and finally graduated to playing professional rugby for Ulster.

So who do you think deserves to benefit from developing these players- Ulster? Or Connacht?

Intotouch wrote:I'd love to see more of him. What I saw looked great but it's far too little to judge a player on and I've yet to see him against a really strong defense (sorry but Argentina were not the best that week).

Hopefully he'll be sensible enough to realize the hype is nothing to take seriously.

This is a player that I'd love to see in Connacht now. I was sickened by Fionn Carr's move to Leinster, he's hardly ever played there and was scoring all over the place for Connacht last year who need him. Connacht can give talented players the chance to play, not warm benches or worse, train full time. What's the point in having a traffic jam of backs in three provinces and one desperate for talented players? It'll be typical of the Irish rugby set up if Gilroy hardly ever plays for Ulster and is dropped out of the Irish set up while Connacht sink down the pro 12 table. Maybe he'll be lucky and there'll be another swathe of injuries that force them to pick him again. It's getting to the point where I want to start throwing heaps of banana skins around Donnybrook. I'm not sure how to lure people to the West though. Free smoothies for life? All the spinach they could eat? Sadly I think great heaps of cash is what's needed.

Gilroy will get plenty of game time at ulster theres no reason whatsoever for him to move. Hes in a winning team, getting plenty of games. has a good coach and is playing for his home team. He should and will stay put.

Not sure the opportunities for game time in Connacht are as many they used to be. They now have their academy churning out players of their own and to be frank i dont think Carr would be getting much more gametime there than he is at leinster this season. They have O'Halloran, Henshaw, Duffy Vaniokolo, Poolman playing in the back 3 who are all better or have potential to be better than Carr IMO. Although i do agree that he shouldnt have left.

Notch wrote:
I genuinely think this mindset is out of touch with modern rugby

Wait...are you suggesting Intotouch is out of touch?....

I think his point is valid, just Gilroy is a bad example because he is a first team regular not the fringe player some think he is.

Yeah, hence we've seen the likes of Mark McCrea, Niall O'Connor and Willie Faloon make the move west in recent years.

I don't know if any of you were watching the BBC NI coverage of the Scarlets v Ulster game tonight.

They did a wee thing at half time where they went to Methody with Gilroy, Jackson and Allen.

Seeing them look at the pictures of all the first XV teams on the wall in the Sports Hall talking about seeing the pictures of teams when they were 12 or 13 and really wanting to be on the First XV someday, the pictures of the Schools Cup wins etc.

They interviewed Gilroy about his Ireland start and mentioned the talk of him making the Lions. He smiled and said he was just concentrating on trying to get a chance to get his jersey back with Ulster.

#bothfeeetplantedfirmlyontheUlsterturf.

Great to see.

rodders wrote:
The guy with the big pressure on his shoulders following the Autumn is not Gilroy ... but Trimble who at only 28 is at a real cross roads in his career for province and country.

Big game from Trimble tonight... looks like he won't be surrendering his jersey anytime soon .

Trimble for the Lions?..... .....