Froch v Groves Hype, Poll, More hype, General Hype!!!!!

I make no bones about looking forward to Froch fights. I am a Froch lover, despite his ever expanding ego.

So this weekend, how does it go?!

Me, I am saying Froch by KO inside 8

Froch fan myself Sean......

Im predicting a cagey opening from both......groves will be respectful of Frochs power and i think may be respectful of The Saints.

however, soon as George lands anything of note and Carl knows he can take it, then its literally a matter of chasing a running duck around a ring.

Hopefully George wont apply the De Gale tactics (i think he will). If he does, Froch will catch him late on around 8-10.

If he even dares to trade with the warrior then it could be a VERY early night.

Be interesting to see how he handles the pressure.

See it exactly the same as MM8.

Groves dresses up as churchill and gives his most famous speech and froch invades germany to bum angela merkel to death. Groves wins by default but is deducted 50% of his match fee for smoking a cigar in the ring.

Wont be much fee to deduct from Groves once Booth and Hearn are finished Id say.

Struggle to see how he can adopt any tactics other than the Degale tactics mobile. The Anderson fight will surely have shown Groves the folly of standing in front of Froch and having a shoot out with him and he will have seen the problems Froch has had in the past with the likes of Dirrell so whilst the tactics can be dull to watch you would have to think they represent Groves’ best chance of success.

I am going to go out on a limb and say Froch gets this done early. I don't see Groves being able to evade him like he did degale, because unlike Degale, Froch isn't scared to pull the trigger. Once he starts landing, I can't see it going any different to that fight. Groves best chance is to catch Froch with something huge coming in. Nobody's chin is unbreakable and Froch has had so many wars he could break at any time.

Fight to be cancelled as both Froch and Groves argue over who is to be allowed to maintain a constant vigil at David Haye's bedside.

DAVE667 wrote:Fight to be cancelled as both Froch and Groves argue over who is to be allowed to maintain a constant vigil at David Haye's bedside.

Do not bring Haye into this!

 

Seanusarrilius wrote:

DAVE667 wrote:Fight to be cancelled as both Froch and Groves argue over who is to be allowed to maintain a constant vigil at David Haye's bedside.

Do not bring Haye into this!

 

Why not, they're currently arguing about who is more Haye's friend. Froch says he phones him regularly, George says he took him on Family Fortunes. It's as interesting and as relevant as how badly Froch dances or Groves' breath smells, who is delusional, who's a warrior and who's "getting knocked arrrrt!"

DAVE667 wrote:

Seanusarrilius wrote:

DAVE667 wrote:Fight to be cancelled as both Froch and Groves argue over who is to be allowed to maintain a constant vigil at David Haye's bedside.

Do not bring Haye into this!

 

Why not, they're currently arguing about who is more Haye's friend. Froch says he phones him regularly, George says he took him on Family Fortunes. It's as interesting and as relevant as how badly Froch dances or  Groves' breath smells, who is delusional, who's a warrior and who's "getting knocked arrrrt!"

David, please. We have a long and un-checkered history on this forum. Let us talk of war, warriorness and war chests. Not Haye, ANYTHING BUT HAYE!

Asking Dave not to bring Haye into a conversation is like asking Strongy not to find a way for Strongy not to blame Eddie Hearn for everything, ever, a laudable aim but one that is ultimately doomed to failure.

How dare you, I've shoehorned Bradley Pryce and Peter Jackson into conversations but generally try to keep my "admiration" of David Haye confined to my bathroom.

The suggestion that I'm as obsessed as STRONGY is, to be frank, a bloody insult and I would thank you all kindly to retract those quite frankly disgusting comparisons.

Anyway, how did Eddie Hearn manage to sneak into David haye's house and damage his shoulder thus allowing STRONGY a week of ranting about Haye and Hearn in one sitting?

Groves HAS to move his feet and head. I know that sounds stupidly obvious but his lateral movement can cause Froch problems. I really think Groves can hurt Froch, certainly enough to make sure he knows he can't walk through him.

Froch from 8 ish though is my guess. Seems to be the consensus also.

KingMonkey wrote:Groves HAS to move his feet and head.  I know that sounds stupidly obvious but his lateral movement can cause Froch problems.  I really think Groves can hurt Froch, certainly enough to make sure he knows he can't walk through him.

Froch from 8 ish though is my guess.  Seems to be the consensus also.

If Groves gets the better of the early rounds it he has to make sure he lands a decent amount of power punches. If he does, Froch will be suitably disheartened to show him some respect. If he just makes Froch miss but doesn't make him pay, then he will burn as much energy running away as Froch does swinging wildly.

My take on it (other than how cruel some people on this forum can be) is that there's a lot to be said for what Froch doesn't do as much as what Groves has to do.

I think it's fair to say that Groves has to make Froch miss and punish him for his mistakes but it's whether or not Froch heeds these warnings or decides to try and prove how much of a tough guy he is by trying walk through the shots. Froch's pride maybe his undoing here.

Still up for debate as to how hard Groves really does hit but as Ward and Kessler showed, you don't have to hit Froch hard, just hit him in the right place and keep doing it.

Conventional wisdom says Froch but I'm going for Groves (a new daytime quiz show with Henry Kelly if ever there was one)

DAVE667 wrote:My take on it (other than how cruel some people on this forum can be) is that there's a lot to be said for what Froch doesn't do as much as what Groves has to do.

I think it's fair to say that Groves has to make Froch miss and punish him for his mistakes but it's whether or not Froch heeds these warnings or decides to try and prove how much of a tough guy he is by trying walk through the shots. Froch's pride maybe his undoing here.

Still up for debate as to how hard Groves really does hit but as Ward and Kessler showed, you don't have to hit Froch hard, just hit him in the right place and keep doing it.

Conventional wisdom says Froch but I'm going for Groves (a new daytime quiz show with Henry Kelly if ever there was one)

What I meant was, I can see Groves evading quite well as Froch does telegraph sometimes and doesn't have fast hands. But will he evade and move, or counter with hard shots. Sounds obvious that he needs to make him pay, but you know what I mean, me old mucker

Seanusarrilius wrote:

DAVE667 wrote:My take on it (other than how cruel some people on this forum can be) is that there's a lot to be said for what Froch doesn't do as much as what Groves has to do.

I think it's fair to say that Groves has to make Froch miss and punish him for his mistakes but it's whether or not Froch heeds these warnings or decides to try and prove how much of a tough guy he is by trying walk through the shots. Froch's pride maybe his undoing here.

Still up for debate as to how hard Groves really does hit but as Ward and Kessler showed, you don't have to hit Froch hard, just hit him in the right place and keep doing it.

Conventional wisdom says Froch but I'm going for Groves (a new daytime quiz show with Henry Kelly if ever there was one)

What I meant was, I can see Groves evading quite well as Froch does telegraph sometimes and doesn't have fast hands. But will he evade and move, or counter with hard shots. Sounds obvious that he needs to make him pay, but you know what I mean, me old mucker

He needs to do both. Froch won't be put off by missing with his shots but if he's missing AND getting countered with hard enough counter, it will be to Groves' advantage. Groves needs to try and make Froch look clueless and cumbersome whilst bouncing right hands off his noggin. Do that for nine and a half rounds then RUUUUNNNNNNN!

Groves' right hand is a weapon. Luring Froch onto it HAS to be part of the game plan but he needs to know his way out. Groves will need his escape routes by muscle memory so he's out of trouble quick sharp. Sneak a decent right and move. You never know, maybe some body shots could wear Froch down a bit too. He's far from invincible. Just make sure he feels them.

He has proven invincible so far mate. Was close against Kessler in the first (could have gone either way), nearly stopped him in the 2nd fight. Lost vs Ward, got outclassed first 6-8 rounds but then took over the fight and dragged Ward out of his zone for a bit, no signs of tiring.

same with Taylor. Got outboxed but somehow came on strong AGAIN to stop him in the last 30 seconds.

Groves will either have to have SUPER POWER equivalent to GGG/KOVALEV or Frochs chin turns to China overnight.

don't see either happening.

mobilemaster8 wrote:He has proven invincible so far mate. Was close against Kessler in the first (could have gone either way), nearly stopped him in the 2nd fight. Lost vs Ward, got outclassed first 6-8 rounds but then took over the fight and dragged Ward out of his zone for a bit, no signs of tiring.

same with Taylor. Got outboxed but somehow came on strong AGAIN to stop him in the last 30 seconds.

Groves will either have to have SUPER POWER equivalent to GGG/KOVALEV or Frochs chin turns to China overnight.

don't see either happening.

I'd suggest that you
A/ check the definition of the word "invincible" and
B/ watch the ward fight again...seems you bought into the Froch post fight hype that night. I bet you think Ricky was winning by a country mile before Manny KO' him!!

Score cards painted a pretty picture Dave. IM sure Ward only won by 3 rounds on one card and around 4-5 on the other two.

And i meant as in he has never been stopped, or looked even close to getting stopped...ever.

how on earth can some small no name with no experience stop him?

mobilemaster8 wrote:Score cards painted a pretty picture Dave. IM sure Ward only won by 3 rounds on one card and around 4-5 on the other two.

And i meant as in he has never been stopped, or looked even close to getting stopped...ever.

how on earth can some small no name with no experience stop him?

Certainly a prettier picture than the one our eyes showed us mate. Froch was never in that fight. beaten every which way up, inside, outside and back to front. I really wanted him to win but I thought Ward made him look utterly clueless at times.

You don't have to stop Froch to beat him dear fellow. Ward showed that, so did kessler and had Dirrell shown a little more devil in his work, he'd have beaten Froch too. In the Taylor fight, Froch was 14 seconds away from being a footnote in SM history. Fairplay to him but one of the most disappointing MW champions in modern history made Froch look terrible that night too and, was it not for taylor's questionable stamina, Froch's record would look very different indeed.

I'm a big fan of Groves and have been for a while.
His development over the last 4-5 fights has been impressive and I think Froch will be surprised by the accuracy of Groves. His right hook has proved a destructive shot and Froch keeps his hands low and might eat a few.

Last time out against Alcoba the thing that impressed me was his upper body movement.

Froch is ponderous at best and downright slow at times, Groves speed can give him kittens.

I think Groves on points but if Froch can drag him into a war in the trenches like the warrior and global megastar he is... Etc.

Think your a little hard on Jermain there Davey boy. Was an okay middle champ, a lot better than Felix Sturm, Darren Barker, Peter Quillin.

Froch may well have been behind against Taylor when he stopped him. But he still stopped him.

The first with Kessler was very close and could have gone Carls way has it been at home....which id did in the second in yet another very competitive scrap.

i agree Ward outclassed him for the majority, but Froch did come on strong late on to get some rounds so it didn't feel a COMPLETE tanning ala Mayweather fights.

the bottom line is that Groves is certainly NOT a Ward, Kessler,Dirrell or even a Taylor.

He may look good early on, but he has very much wound up the Cobra, and i think he will get bitten for it

Froch didnt come on strong, ward took a rest. Though you are right about Groves not being in the same class

mobilemaster8 wrote:Think your a little hard on Jermain there Davey boy. Was an okay middle champ, a lot better than Felix Sturm, Darren Barker, Peter Quillin.

Froch may well have been behind against Taylor when he stopped him. But he still stopped him.

The first with Kessler was very close and could have gone Carls way has it been at home....which id did in the second in yet another very competitive scrap.

i agree Ward outclassed him for the majority, but Froch did come on strong late on to get some rounds so it didn't feel a COMPLETE tanning ala Mayweather fights.

the bottom line is that Groves is certainly NOT a Ward, Kessler,Dirrell or even a Taylor.

He may look good early on, but he has very much wound up the Cobra, and i think he will get bitten for it

Come on, the guy had potential after beating Hopkins then had those stinkers against Kasim Ouma and Winky before being done by Pavlik. The US boxing scribes described as the most disappointing MW champ in modern times.

Suggestions are that Groves more than held his own with Dirrell when he sparred with him before the DeGale fight and I'd wager that he's improved a great deal since them.

Groves' main concern is his tendency to switch off at times and that's where Froch is likely to catch him. Groves is going to have to be 100% switched on for every second and this is where his strength of character will come into play (it might also highlight the influence of Adam Booth if the going gets tough at any stage)

Ward started to cruise the last two rounds which Froch won for me but before that he dominated from start to finish pretty much. There were a couple of rounds which I gave to Froch on the night for work rate but watching it back the cleaner work of Ward should have got them, 117-111 for me.

As for the first Kessler fight, there seems to be a myth that it could have gone either way, it couldn't have it was a competitive fight but Kessler clearly deserved the nod.

Did you miss it that press row and Al Bernstein both scored it to Froch? Or were you away at the time? Personally I thought Froch shaded it and that was still the case the last time I watched it.

Ward clearly beat Froch and any talk to the contrary is nonsense.
Kessler beat froch by a couple rounds in their first fight, but Froch should have upped his game in that one because I thought he could have won that. But he lost.

However, he is not facing Ward or a Kessler in more of his pomp that earlier this year.

I know one thing, Froch WILL hug Groves if he wins. Allt his talk about not talking to him after will vanish if he wins on Saturday

You thought the Taylor-Winky fight was a stinker, Dave? I thought it was a good, enjoyable fight with both men showing some classy stuff and in fine form. Revisited it again lately and actually thought that Taylor deserved to win it outright. That fight seems to get used as a stick to beat Taylor with these days, but I think it showcased what he was capable of. Not a stunning bout or performance but nowhere near a stinker for me.

Agree that on the whole, Taylor was a disappointment as the Middleweight champ, mind you.

As for Froch-Groves, despite some good arguments on the contrary I just can't see Groves doing it. Part of me suspects it could be Froch-Bute all over again. People are talking about Groves' speed, improved upper body movement, genuine power etc, but a couple of years back many were saying the same things about Bute, and understandably from the outset, as his performances in defending his IBF belt, or most of them in any case, had shown these things.

But we saw how displaying those gifts against journeyman, gatekeepers and has-beens can suddenly mean zilch when you're pitted against a real, real top class operator when Froch tore in to him - he was just totally unprepared and nowhere near hardened enough to deal with it. Worth noting that, while he came under fire for it, Bute's opposition prior to facing Froch was better than Groves' has been.

There's also a good chance that Groves might get on his bike and try to counter Froch on his way to a points verdict, but again I'm not really convinced that Georgie Boy is built for that. He did it against DeGale but was helped massively by DeGale just being too passive and not letting go with enough. Froch isn't going to grant him that luxury. Groves was cautious enough of DeGale's power, to the point where he was often out of the scoring range and landing only a few really notable shots. If or when Froch lands something worthwhile on him early doors, I think there's a chance of Groves being forced over the line and boxing in sheer survival mode rather than countering mode, which would almost certainly result in him losing a decision.

Just can't quite get Groves' lack of really solid opposition, or the way Bute fell apart when he stepped it up a level, out of the back of my mind. Still has to be Froch for me.

Winky is used to beat Taylor over the head because, as good as Winky was, there's no way a man with Taylor's advantages should have made it so hard against the much smaller man (good big 'un, good little 'un adages be damned)

I see your point, Dave. Just feel myself that boxing out a draw against a red-hot Winky isn't a bad result or one to be criticised regardless of Wright having been a career Light-Middle. Easy to say that the bigger man held the cards, but I believe that Winky was actually a narrow betting favourite going in (don't quote me on that, though!). But I know you're a big fan of Winky so probably hoped he'd do an absolute number on Taylor as a way of punishing him for those 24 dreadful rounds he and Bernard served up between them!

I thought Wright beat Taylor. Out jabbed him pretty easily, better defence and more accurate throughout with his punches. Taylors punches just had more weight behind them.

Froch by KO 1-6 for me.  Froch is too experienced and has attributes that make him hard to beat. It's not like Groves is known for a granite chin either.  Groves is also no Dirrell.  Dirrell as an elusive fighter is up there with the very best.

If Froch has lost a step it might take him longer to get the KO but it's coming.

Fair enough, catchweight. That's what I thought when I saw it the first time as well. But saw it again more recently and Taylor up a point or so at the end.

Taylor did a good job of countering the counter puncher in Wright and also managed to get off first with some regularity, which Mosley and Trinidad were never able to do. But then there were some rounds (might have been 7 and 9) where Taylor allowed himself to get backed up to the ropes and worked over while not really doing much, which showed that annoying tendency to box well within himself that he had.

I wouldn't quibble with anyone who had it to either man by up to a couple of points, or who had it as a draw either, for that matter. Very close fight and I think it was well scored by the three judges.

You can't compare Groves to anyone yet but you can highlight his plus points and his plus points are those that could make life tricky for Froch. The stick and move back foot fighter is not something he has coped that well with in the past and Groves US evolving all the time. Groves looks a sharp, hard hitting counter puncher and if Froch thinks he ain't human he could walk onto something. Just don't get caught George!

I see Groves as similar to Bute. Groves is great when on top, but he seems to fight to a set, unadaptable style. Now, I am making assumptions here, but I don't think Groves is going to have a plan b when Froch starts pouring it on

Aint so bad. Aint so bad. Come on...Groves knows that Froch aint so bad

Groves will go out there and knock his head off. Froch is just a man

He'll be a more man than him. He'll go get him...eye of the tiger...eye of the tiger

Ha, nah mon. Groves going down quick!

Groves mother hits harder than Froch

He aint so bad

Seanusarrilius wrote:I see Groves as similar to Bute. Groves is great when on top, but he seems to fight to a set, unadaptable style. Now, I am making assumptions here, but I don't think Groves is going to have a plan b when Froch starts pouring it on

The same can be argued about Froch. His answer to Ward's dominance appeared to be, "keep at it, he might get bored." McCracken (who I think gets FAR too much praise in general, nice bloke but he's not tactical genius) seemed just as clueless that night. Froch will keep marching forward as he always does. If Groves can catch him with counters, Froch's tactic will be.....to keep marching forward.

Not saying Froch can't fight any other way (he showed against Abraham that he can box at range when he has to) I just question whether or not he has the ability to adapt mid-fight if things don't look to be going his way.

Steffan wrote:Groves mother hits harder than Froch

He aint so bad

Judging by comments about his breath, Groves mother is a dragon. And not a Welsh one

 

McCraken or Froch appearing clueless vs Ward isn't that much of a criticism, I mean, there's only so much he can do from the corner and he's smart enough to know his man is beat in all departments. What are you suggesting he said? Couldn't outbox him, couldn't outmuscle him, couldn't outthink him... doesn't leave much.

"Carl, when you get up close, try shortening your punches instead of winging them in wide arcs that Stevie Wonder could see coming from a mile off!" is just one bit of advice he might have tried!!!!!!!!!

Froch could never beat Ward. That's simply a talent issue. Ward is a sublime boxer, tactition and head butter. McCkracken always gives Froch good advice.

This seems like a huge step up in class for George Groves, whereas for Carl Froch it is a step down in class (compared to battle hardened world champions he has already fought). The punishment Froch dished out to granite jawed Kessler in their last fight was a little bit sickening.

Yeah, but Kessler was there to be hit, Groves has to make sure he isn't. Move, move, move George!

Seanusarrilius wrote:Froch could never beat Ward. That's simply a talent issue. Ward is a sublime boxer, tactition and head butter. McCkracken always gives Froch good advice.

What advice did he give him during the first fight with Kessler because that didn't work out too well, did it? The main bit of advice should have been "keep your composure and pick your shots". Had he done so (instead of going into the trenches...............aaaarrrgghhhhh) Froch wouldn't have lost

DAVE667 wrote:

Seanusarrilius wrote:Froch could never beat Ward. That's simply a talent issue. Ward is a sublime boxer, tactition and head butter. McCkracken always gives Froch good advice.

What advice did he give him during the first fight with Kessler because that didn't work out too well, did it? The main bit of advice should have been "keep your composure and pick your shots". Had he done so (instead of going into the trenches...............aaaarrrgghhhhh) Froch wouldn't have lost

 
Come one Dave, I know you hate Froch for his attitude and I can understand why, but to attack McCkracken is a bit off. Watch the fight and listen to the advice he gave Froch. Froch couldn't execute, that was the issue. I am sure that if the great DAVE667 can come up with the holy grail of advice 'keep your composure and pick your shots' then someone who is actually an expert on boxing can match it.