Have England done everyone else a favour....

... or have they stirred the hornets nest?

In 1954 the 4 minute mile was thought of as an impossible feat in running. Physiologically, people said it couldn't be done. People thought the heart would explode if the required pace was maintained. Everyone apart from Roger Bannister. Many tried but all failed. Enter Roger Bannister. Roger ran the first sub-4 minute mile EVER. He believed it could be done and went and did it. Interestingly, just a few weeks later his time was bettered. Furthermore, around 10 more people subsequently broke the 4 minute mile that year! Why? Belief and self confidence. Roger Bannister gave others the belief that it could be done, that the impossible was not, in fact, impossible. No-one had ever done it, then in a year 10+ people managed to do it - that's what belief and self efficacy can do.

Now, I appreciate the All Blacks have been beaten before, and that England haven't done the impossible, but this group of All Blacks players had developed such an air of invincibility through awesome performances over the last few years. 20 games unbeaten, a World Cup win, beating the top teams in the world at home and away. They seemed unbeatable, in a way. Nothing's impossible in sport, obviously. But the way in which the All Blacks have managed to perfect many aspects of their game has simply blown the opposition out of the water.

However, today's result for me gives other teams hope. I think it should give others the belief that the All Blacks are mortal, that they can be beaten if you take the game to them. There are things that can be done to shut them down and to dictate the game to them. Yes, the hornets nest will be stirred: NZ fans are some of their staunchest critics and they'll be hurting from this. Nothing more than a win is the expectation from fans, coaches and players alike. They'll come out fighting as they always do, and will unleash hell on their next opponents. But, for those teams who've been on the receiving end of the All Blacks lately, this win by England gives others the blueprint, the evidence, the vicarious learning experience that could equip them mentally to approach their next meeting with NZ with more hope and confidence than perhaps they might have had before.

Congratulations, England. Awesome, awesome display against all odds. I hope my side Wales will take heed and learn from you. Commiserations NZ. However, I'm sure you'll be back on a 10+ game winning streak again in the near future! That's just what you do.

I think so Griff,maybe a bit like buster douglas and Tyson!...if anything wales pointed the way in their second half...dont give them any time on the ball and be smart at the breakdown...lovely as it is, the RWC is really the place to beat them...

Both.

Everyone will take inspiration from England's victory. Even SA and AUS will look at the match and use it as a textbook example of how to play the ABs.

The ABs will have this little devil on their shoulder until their next test and I would hate to be the French in 6 months time... Someone is going to pay.

It's great for rugby anyhow.

Hang on minute guys. England have done what just about every coach in the world knows already, nothing more. As freeman says, Wales did a bit of it themselves to great effect in their 2nd half. I doubt the ABs will be thinking 'jeez, we're in big trouble now we've been found out'. I'll bet he Boks, Oz, France or even Argentina don't think the ABs are invincible. This result is way more important to the England squad than it is to the AB's or anyone else.

The all Blacks have shown they are masterful in attack, that is the one area that has put them a cut above the rest this year.

On a number of accasions this year when opposition teams managed to stifle and strangle their pack they showed ineffectiveness with ball in hand.

Today England showed when you attack them with a bit of panache, they are as vulnerable as anyone.

Something no other team managed due to ineffective attacks.

aitchw, my point really was that confidence and self belief is fine but sometimes not enough on it's own. Actually seeing someone else do it, someone you compete with on a regular basis, one of your contemporaries, can give that little bit of extra belief that it can be done.

A bit of perspective lads, the all blacks were not them usual selves today and it was nothing to do with England at the start as the game wore on that virus got to them a bit and they got tired. Nothing like the normal New Zealand team, England did well, very well but lads have a bit of perspective. Also if a rugby player/team ever thinks a team is unbeatable then it's time he gives up the game.

I think it was agressive defensive that laid the foundations today,wood and cole were excellent at denying the ABS continuity from first phase,crucial if you are to stand a chance against this ABs team

Griff, can't dispute that. I guess in an ideal world it should give everyone a lift. NH needs some belief to bring on the talent that's out there and I happen to think there's more out there than seems apparent.

Errr, nope.

England haven't even done themselves a favour this Autumn.

Sorry, but I believe that to be a fact.

neilthom7 wrote:A bit of perspective lads, the all blacks were not them usual selves today and it was nothing to do with England at the start as the game wore on that virus got to them a bit and they got tired. Nothing like the normal New Zealand team, England did well, very well but lads have a bit of perspective. Also if a rugby player/team ever thinks a team is unbeatable then it's time he gives up the game.

Thought there would be a reason to belittle England's achievements!

You should note that nobody is calling England world beaters. The kiwi's have mentioned before and after that the virus would play no part in the outcome of the game. Even there coach has said the better team on the day won and let's not forget, this is a coach that doesn't mix his words and speaks what he thinks.

PJH,
your belief, is err... just a belief.
Anyone can believe something wholeheartedly, but that does not make it a 'fact'.

I think the back row was one of the keys. Having Wood out there did a lot to neutralise things at the breakdown. He was immense. The defense was aggressive, but intelligently so. A lot of the foundation were laid in the first half by the pack going forwards. So when England went on their scoring spree, they had earned thier right to go wide. Just like we were all told by our coaches at U9s............

However, one match, however enjoyable, does not crown world champions. Let's enjoy it now. For the hard work continues and there is a long, long road in front.

PJHolybloke wrote:Errr, nope.

England haven't even done themselves a favour this Autumn.

Sorry, but I believe that to be a fact.

pourquoi?

I didn't say England didn't play better on the day you will notice I even said they played very well but you cannot by any stretch of the imagination say that was the same New Zealand team that played for the last 20 games. Nor can you disagree that if a rugby player thinks a team is unbeatable that he shouldn't be playing.

doctor_grey wrote:I think the back row was one of the keys. Having Wood out there did a lot to neutralise things at the breakdown. He was immense. The defense was aggressive, but intelligently so. A lot of the foundation were laid in the first half by the pack going forwards. So when England went on their scoring spree, they had earned thier right to go wide. Just like we were all told by our coaches at U9s............

However, one match, however enjoyable, does not crown world champions. Let's enjoy it now. For the hard work continues and there is a long, long road in front.

This really gets to me, I swear its a floor in the English. We always talk down our achievements. Nobody are calling us world champions!

neilthom7 wrote:I didn't say England didn't play better on the day you will notice I even said they played very well but you cannot by any stretch of the imagination say that was the same New Zealand team that played for the last 20 games. Nor can you disagree that if a rugby player thinks a team is unbeatable that he shouldn't be playing.

So your saying that it was the same England as the last 20 games?

gregortree wrote:PJH,
your belief, is err... just a belief.
Anyone can believe something wholeheartedly, but that does not make it a 'fact'.

Sure gregor.

They only won 2 out of 4.

Should have won 3.

That's my belief, what's yours? 2 out of 4 is OK? If it is, that's up to you, it's not place to tell you what you should be happy with.

Call me what you like, Hansen said before todays game that NZ are expected to win every game, and therefore, every game they play has pressure on it.

Why should I expect anything less from England?

1 out of 3 IS bad.

enjoy this...then move on...it will mean squat if we cant take this form into the 6n...

freeman lowell wrote:enjoy this...then move on...it will mean squat if we cant take this form into the 6n...

+1

nathan wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:I think the back row was one of the keys. Having Wood out there did a lot to neutralise things at the breakdown. He was immense. The defense was aggressive, but intelligently so. A lot of the foundation were laid in the first half by the pack going forwards. So when England went on their scoring spree, they had earned thier right to go wide. Just like we were all told by our coaches at U9s............

However, one match, however enjoyable, does not crown world champions. Let's enjoy it now. For the hard work continues and there is a long, long road in front.

This really gets to me, I swear its a floor in the English. We always talk down our achievements. Nobody are calling us world champions!

Only using the comment as an expression, mate. Not talking down ourselves or the win at all. Enjoyed every morsel of it. And, in fact, it shows what could have been in the close losses to the Boks and Wallabies. England have the potential to be very, very good. But there is a road to travel. Agree?

doctor_grey wrote:

nathan wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:I think the back row was one of the keys. Having Wood out there did a lot to neutralise things at the breakdown. He was immense. The defense was aggressive, but intelligently so. A lot of the foundation were laid in the first half by the pack going forwards. So when England went on their scoring spree, they had earned thier right to go wide. Just like we were all told by our coaches at U9s............

However, one match, however enjoyable, does not crown world champions. Let's enjoy it now. For the hard work continues and there is a long, long road in front.

This really gets to me, I swear its a floor in the English. We always talk down our achievements. Nobody are calling us world champions!

Only using the comment as an expression, mate. Not talking down ourselves or the win at all. Enjoyed every morsel of it. And, in fact, it shows what could have been in the close losses to the Boks and Wallabies. England have the potential to be very, very good. But there is a road to travel. Agree?

100%!

nathan wrote:

neilthom7 wrote:I didn't say England didn't play better on the day you will notice I even said they played very well but you cannot by any stretch of the imagination say that was the same New Zealand team that played for the last 20 games. Nor can you disagree that if a rugby player thinks a team is unbeatable that he shouldn't be playing.

So your saying that it was the same England as the last 20 games?

That's just confusing but now you asked no I think they played better and did the basics better than they have recently. Jesus I am sorry for giving my opinion as an outsider looking in cos quite frankly mate I don't care if England win or not I am not some mad hatter who only wants Ireland to win or who hates the English I am just a rugby fan giving my honest opinion on the subject stated. I am not having a snipe at England which you would know if you read what I said and were not so busy being peed off at people for being just a tad realistic. I tell you what mate the real acid test is how teams do in the 6 nations. I know Ireland probably wont do that well because our coaching isn't great see I am a realist but nor do I think England will win it either. Honestly I think on this form France will and in some style most likely.

farell for IRB PLAYER OF THE YEAR??????

[quote="nathan"][quote="doctor_grey"][quote="nathan"][quote="doctor_grey"]I think the back row was one of the keys. Having Wood out there did a lot to neutralise things at the breakdown. He was immense. The defense was aggressive, but intelligently so. A lot of the foundation were laid in the first half by the pack going forwards. So when England went on their scoring spree, they had earned thier right to go wide. Just like we were all told by our coaches at U9s............

However, one match, however enjoyable, does not crown world champions. Let's enjoy it now. For the hard work continues and there is a long, long road in front.[/quote]

This really gets to me, I swear its a floor in the English. We always talk down our achievements. Nobody are calling us world champions![/quote]Only using the comment as an expression, mate. Not talking down ourselves or the win at all. Enjoyed every morsel of it. And, in fact, it shows what could have been in the close losses to the Boks and Wallabies. England have the potential to be very, very good. But there is a road to travel. Agree?[/quote]

100%! [/quote]
+1

neilthom7 wrote:

nathan wrote:

neilthom7 wrote:I didn't say England didn't play better on the day you will notice I even said they played very well but you cannot by any stretch of the imagination say that was the same New Zealand team that played for the last 20 games. Nor can you disagree that if a rugby player thinks a team is unbeatable that he shouldn't be playing.

So your saying that it was the same England as the last 20 games?

That's just confusing but now you asked no I think they played better and did the basics better than they have recently. Jesus I am sorry for giving my opinion as an outsider looking in cos quite frankly mate I don't care if England win or not I am not some mad hatter who only wants Ireland to win or who hates the English I am just a rugby fan giving my honest opinion on the subject stated. I am not having a snipe at England which you would know if you read what I said and were not so busy being peed off at people for being just a tad realistic. I tell you what mate the real acid test is how teams do in the 6 nations. I know Ireland probably wont do that well because our coaching isn't great see I am a realist but nor do I think England will win it either. Honestly I think on this form France will and in some style most likely.

I wasn't saying you were having a snipe, I was just discussing which is what this place is about. I had no idea which team you behind!

nathan wrote:

neilthom7 wrote:

nathan wrote:

neilthom7 wrote:I didn't say England didn't play better on the day you will notice I even said they played very well but you cannot by any stretch of the imagination say that was the same New Zealand team that played for the last 20 games. Nor can you disagree that if a rugby player thinks a team is unbeatable that he shouldn't be playing.

So your saying that it was the same England as the last 20 games?

That's just confusing but now you asked no I think they played better and did the basics better than they have recently. Jesus I am sorry for giving my opinion as an outsider looking in cos quite frankly mate I don't care if England win or not I am not some mad hatter who only wants Ireland to win or who hates the English I am just a rugby fan giving my honest opinion on the subject stated. I am not having a snipe at England which you would know if you read what I said and were not so busy being peed off at people for being just a tad realistic. I tell you what mate the real acid test is how teams do in the 6 nations. I know Ireland probably wont do that well because our coaching isn't great see I am a realist but nor do I think England will win it either. Honestly I think on this form France will and in some style most likely.

I wasn't saying you were having a snipe, I was just discussing which is what this place is about. I had no idea which team you behind!

Fair enough mate we are all friends here Will say one thing Tom Wood and Launchbaury or however you spell his name are cracking players and why do people seem to think I can tackle the big guy at full tilt around the chest on to realise that they can't when Manu's boots are going over them lol Farrell is a great kicker too and I thought Brown was excellant even though he was out of position. Either way I can't wait to 6 nations time or next weekend when Ulster play Saints

Maybe if England has won one the other in the Ais then it coiuld well ebbe i differrnt