Scotland RWC 2015 Group

Pool B

South Africa
Samoa
Scotland
Asia 1
Americas 2

We dodged a bullet there. Best possible draw from the 3rd pot in my opinion. Japan will take the Asia 1 spot with the USA likely in there as well.

Now I don't want to get too ahead of myself here but this group is winnable.

*flashbacks of saying that when the 2011 RWC group was drawn*

I'm relieved but I'm not holding my breath, the proof will be in the pudding for this one I think. Also depends on our new coach, if we have Johnson, Bradley or Lineen I can see another 2011 happening...

Pretty pleased with that. The main thing for me was to avoid NZ and England - on our day I think we could beat anyone else at the World Cup. However if we have an off day we could lose to anyone!

Was important not to get a European team in the lower teams - it's a physical enough group as it is without throwing Romania or Georgia in there. Japan and America aren't the biggest teams but are fast and dynamic so will be a welcome change from the physical dogfight against SA and Samoa.

Pretty happy, and tbh I reckon we could have ended up with a more difficult group if we were 2nd seeds!

also have a feeling SA are going to make the 2015 final

Getting a bit ahead of myself, but with us being group B does that mean we'd play the winner of group A if we came 2nd?

England in the QF.....

Scot Abroad wrote:Pool B

South Africa
Samoa
Scotland
Asia 1
Americas 2

We dodged a bullet there. Best possible draw from the 3rd pot in my opinion. Japan will take the Asia 1 spot with the USA likely in there as well.

Now I don't want to get too ahead of myself here but this group is winnable.

*flashbacks of saying that when the 2011 RWC group was drawn*

I wouldn't go as far as saying the group is winnable for Scotland. On paper it's probably the easiest group but this is Scotland we're talking about. I think a lot will depend on the knick of the Samoan team come 2015, i.e. which players will be there and how much time they've had together. Also, Samoa could be a bit of a banana skin for South Africa so I reckon bonus points, or Scotland's lack of, could be an issue as well.

Has it come to this for Scotland that you're celebrating this before a game is played?!

It wouldn't have mattered if Scotland had fallen into Pool C or D either. They would be tough games in all of those. Frankly, SA is an intimidating prospect but even more so probably the must win against Samoa. They are no mugs now in the pack and set piece and have a game particularly in the backs with their ability to break the Scottish line that will pose a huge threat to Scotland.

So I'd be nervous about your group, make no bones about it. You might be confident about the other two pool matches but the must win matches are very challenging prospects. I know we all like seeing what path we can make to the finals but the key thing for Scotland is getting out of that pool. It's not as easy as the relieved posts would suggest.

Samoa will be a very tough match.... they have a good team and most importantly a good flyhalf. They beat Wales in the AIs so I think its going to be tough for us.

We'll have to rapidly improve but I still back us to qualify.... we have a good bunch of youngsters.

If Samoa see this group they will be happy too.

Kia - its by no means the hardest group tho is it? Certainly gives Scotland a better chance of going thru than they would have had in other groups

Don’t get me wrong I’m not taking Samoa lightly – far from it – but the fact we’ve avoided NZ and England is all I was hoping for. So with that regard I’m quite happy!

Phew - I'll take that.

As others have said, we can beat both the teams ranked above us, and (in theory) the style of play exhibited by the lower teams should suit us.

Screw it. I’m tired of fearing fate and treading on eggshells. I want Scotland to be confident going into this group. We’re going to win it, and if we don’t it’s a wasted opportunity.

Believe. It’s the future - I’ve tasted it.

Kia, as Scotland supporters it's our duty to hype up the team's chances months/years before a ball has been kicked in order to build confidence only for it to be smashed by incompetent coaches and players. It's the Scottish way.

I get that but is there a real difference between NZ and SA for example? Is there a big difference between Ireland, Argentina or Samoa?

Maybe by fractions you've got an easier group but your focus is always the big two pool matches. In that I still see it coming down to Scotland vs Samoa and forgive me for raining on your parade but that is as daunting a task as Ireland or Argentina.

I know where you guys are coming from and Pool A would've been a disaster for you but from then on it looks much of a muchness to me: a big challenge.

Actually on second thoughts, like the positive attitude. Best of luck to you.

Kia, I didn't mean to disrespect Samoa but as others have said its nicer than we could have got. I know full well that Samoa can beat us, but we've beaten them more than they've beaten us so I'm a bit more comfortable that Scotland are playing them than say South Africa and France or New Zealand and England. South Africa and Samoa, I'd say, assuming our form is back up to scratch by 2015, is a winnable pool, but by no means easy.

We've never beaten NZ - we have beaten SA, and indeed in recent times we have beaten SA.

We beat Samoa in Samoa on our summer tour, and seem to have a mental disadvantage against our Welsh and Irish brethren.

And don't get me started on Argentina!

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:I get that but is there a real difference between NZ and SA for example? Is there a big difference between Ireland, Argentina or Samoa?

Maybe by fractions you've got an easier group but your focus is always the big two pool matches. In that I still see it coming down to Scotland vs Samoa and forgive me for raining on your parade but that is as daunting a task as Ireland or Argentina.

I know where you guys are coming from and Pool A would've been a disaster for you but from then on it looks much of a muchness to me: a big challenge.

Actually on second thoughts, like the positive attitude. Best of luck to you.

Yes there is a difference between NZ and SA. Scotland have beaten SA relatively recently.

Scotland should be very pleased with this group. Of the 2nd tier Samoa are probably the easiest. Not to say they are an easy side but as already mentioned getting England as tier 2 would have been particularly tough.

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:I get that but is there a real difference between NZ and SA for example? Is there a big difference between Ireland, Argentina or Samoa?

Maybe by fractions you've got an easier group but your focus is always the big two pool matches. In that I still see it coming down to Scotland vs Samoa and forgive me for raining on your parade but that is as daunting a task as Ireland or Argentina.

I know where you guys are coming from and Pool A would've been a disaster for you but from then on it looks much of a muchness to me: a big challenge.

There is a huge difference between NZ and SA for both Scottish players and supporters. It's been said many times that we're beaten before the game is played where NZ are concerned. The players have tasted victory over SA and aren't as afraid of them. I'm not taking Samoa lightly, they surprised everyone during the AIs, but they also had a pretty poor RWC in 2011 and we beat them in Samoa during the summer tour. The facts are that results this year don't matter, it's how good the teams are in 2015. For the first time in a long time Scotland have a lot of promising youngsters coming through the ranks at the same time. It’s true that Samoa could build on these performances and move forward but one win against Wales doesn’t suddenly make them as threatening as Argentina or Ireland.

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:I get that but is there a real difference between NZ and SA for example? Is there a big difference between Ireland, Argentina or Samoa?

Maybe by fractions you've got an easier group but your focus is always the big two pool matches. In that I still see it coming down to Scotland vs Samoa and forgive me for raining on your parade but that is as daunting a task as Ireland or Argentina.

I know where you guys are coming from and Pool A would've been a disaster for you but from then on it looks much of a muchness to me: a big challenge.

I expect South Africa to be a better team in 2015 than they were in 2011 and I don't think Scotland will get near them. The difference between Samoa and the likes of Ireland and Argentina is that Samoa don't get the same number of top-drawer, high-pressure games as even Scotland do. I would cite the 2003 RWC game against Fiji and two last-minute wins for Scotland over Samoa as evidence of the importance of this. I would much rather Scotland play a team who are inexperienced when it comes to the players keeping their heads and closing out games. Then again, if Scotland keep going the way they are going and if Samoan rugby is managed more effectively over the next few seasons, Scotland could get thrashed by them as well.

Ok you've won me round boys! I have a Scottish father but like Fraser off Dad's Army maybe the defeat on Saturday has got me downcast predicting gloom and doom.

Your spirit has inspired me to run through the streets of Madrid in my kilt down to stock up on Glenmoragie from the local supermarket where it only costs me 27 euros.

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:Ok you've won me round boys! I have a Scottish father but like Fraser off Dad's Army maybe the defeat on Saturday has got me downcast predicting gloom and doom.

Your spirit has inspired me to run through the streets of Madrid in my kilt down to stock up on Glenmoragie from the local supermarket where it only costs me 27 euros.

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:Has it come to this for Scotland that you're celebrating this before a game is played?!

It wouldn't have mattered if Scotland had fallen into Pool C or D either. They would be tough games in all of those. Frankly, SA is an intimidating prospect but even more so probably the must win against Samoa. They are no mugs now in the pack and set piece and have a game particularly in the backs with their ability to break the Scottish line that will pose a huge threat to Scotland.

So I'd be nervous about your group, make no bones about it. You might be confident about the other two pool matches but the must win matches are very challenging prospects. I know we all like seeing what path we can make to the finals but the key thing for Scotland is getting out of that pool. It's not as easy as the relieved posts would suggest.

+1. Kia, you were right the first time - exit at the pool stages beckons. There's a reason SA and Samoa are ranked above us ! And with some new fanny for a coach, we're feiced

It'll be physical but it could have been worse (got to feel sorry for the Welsh!!).

The order of the fixtures will be important for us, and hopefully by then we'll have Mallett on board so he can put one over his former masters!

Am I correct in thinking our games (at least some of them) will be played at Murryfield?

Scot Abroad wrote:Am I correct in thinking our games (at least some of them) will be played at Murryfield?

Sadly incorrect - All stadiums in England except for the Millenium in Cardiff AFAIK

I'm happy with this group, I think Scotland can give South Africa a good game and will run them very close and I believe that we have a better team than Samoa, we've beaten them home and away the last two times we played therm. It will be tough but I can see us going through, and if we have a decent coach the likes of Gray, Grant, Denton, Weir, Scott, Bennett, Visser, Maitland, Hogg, Harley etc. may have 25-50 caps. Also one thing we'll have in our favour is come Scotland vs Samoa we will most probably have a lot more support than them which could swing it.

Don't forget that the last two times we have played Samoa they has been missing a number of key players - no counting chickens

No counting chickens indeed but its an easier group than some. SA and Samoa we have beaten in recent years

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:Don't forget that the last two times we have played Samoa they has been missing a number of key players - no counting chickens

We didn't have Denton or Hamilton and I expect that with the likes of Weir, Hogg, Bennett, Jones, Scott, Dunbar, Denton, MacInally, Fusaro, Harley, Wilson, Gilchrist, Gray, Gray Jnr, MacArthur and Grant improving over the next few years, as well as Visser, Ford, Rennie, Beattie, Barclay, Murray, Hamilton, Cusiter and Brown who might still be in the mix and Strauss, Cusack, Nel and Maitland becoming eligible then I expect we will have a much stronger team.

Also we are going to win this world cup the SRU said so, therefore we'll have to beat one of them.

Quite right, numbahs, time for some positive thinking ... oh hang on, Johnson as interim coach

I think scotland must focus on Samoa. South Africa came through the autumn Internationals unbeaten, even though their attacking nous has been non existent this year.

Next year there will still be a lot of changes in the team especially as Meyer will attmept to find his backline combinations. Expect the forwards to improve as a unit, they may be very good players, but collectively there is still a lot that can improve.

Our attack will also improve once our forwards can as a unit provide momentum ball.

Lastly expect a new half back, someone who will clear faster and make sniping runs, so overall SA will be a hell of a lot better than they were this year.

If Scotland want to compete with us in the next three years, they will have o seriously improve.

I don't expect many losses in the autumn internationals during the next three years.

Meyer will make that his focus, to win as many as he can in Europe.

What have you done with biltong?? Positive about the boks??

RDW, I actuall wrote an artice for another site (while I was in hiatus here) in two parts about what Meyer has achieved, what must be done, and I also looked at our technical areas to improve upon.

I then also thought long and hard about what the other teams have done and not done this year.

There were some lucky escapes for a number of teams, and when you start delving deeper, the bunch aren't as far apart as the results will suggest.

In my humble opinion, NZ as an example had benefitted from teams that weren't as settled, as well drilled and well managed as them

That will change in the next few years.

From a South African perspective, a few things clicked for me this year that haven't analysed or noticed before. We'll be much better.

Biltong wrote:I think scotland must focus on Samoa. South Africa came through the autumn Internationals unbeaten, even though their attacking nous has been non existent this year.

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If Scotland want to compete with us in the next three years, they will have o seriously improve.

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Scotland have beaten SA in recent years - and yes Scotland need to improve. they have the players to do so - can they find the coach. Scotland will be targeting SA as an eminently beatable team and quite rightly so. We will not see the abject capitulation as against NZ previously. Scotland will be aiming to win the group, its perfectly possible they will win the group. They have beaten the other contenders in the last couple of years. If SA write Scotland off they will be fools and might just be made to look like fools

TJ wrote:

Biltong wrote:I think scotland must focus on Samoa. South Africa came through the autumn Internationals unbeaten, even though their attacking nous has been non existent this year.

...............



If Scotland want to compete with us in the next three years, they will have o seriously improve.

...............

Scotland have beaten SA in recent years - and yes Scotland need to improve. they have the players to do so - can they find the coach. Scotland will be targeting SA as an eminently beatable team and quite rightly so. We will not see the abject capitulation as against NZ previously. Scotland will be aiming to win the group, its perfectly possible they will win the group. They have beaten the other contenders in the last couple of years. If SA write Scotland off they will be fools and might just be made to look like fools

TJ, when I say we will be a hell of a lot better is my opinion. It has no bearing on how the springbok camp sees Scotland. Nobody is writing off Scotland.

I am saying we will be much, much better, and there for (which makes sense to me at least) Scotland will have to be much, much better.

simples.

Also, Scotland beat us twice this century at home. So yes they have a chance, however what is the likelyhood that they will play at Murrayfield?

They won't be playing at murrayfield. However would you rather face a team you have beaten twice in recent years (SA) or one you have never beaten(NZ) :-)

Scotland will have every confidence in beating SA. we have the players and the abilities to do so and you have not seen this group of players play to their potential yet

Yes, Scotland has a lot of potential, of that I have no doubt.

I personally hope that they do very well in the six Nations next year. Some of those players have really impressed me this year.

I think Biltong is onto something here - the AIs showed that we simply lack the physicality/stomach to compete head on with up-front, powerful teams like SA and Samoa - if they add some additional flair in the backs too, we're even more in the doo, as we currently do not have the handling and ball skills to go around these guys nor the tactical nous to open them up. That is the sad reality

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:I think Biltong is onto something here - the AIs showed that we simply lack the physicality/stomach to compete head on with up-front, powerful teams like SA and Samoa - if they add some additional flair in the backs too, we're even more in the doo, as we currently do not have the handling and ball skills to go around these guys nor the tactical nous to open them up. That is the sad reality

Now, now. No need to be that negative. All I am suggesting is we are going to improve, the history of Scotland is better against Samoa than us. Hence their must win game is samoa.

I agree, I'm normally one of the more half empty kind of guys but come on Asbo! We certinaly weren't thinking like that after coming away from our summer tour with 3 wins!

Sure we had a bad autumn, we were crushed by the Rampant all blacks but still put up a commendable resistance.

As for the South Africa game the only telling differance was a shocking intercept pass! Furthermore confusion reigned in the 1st Bokke try!

Tonga was a recipie for disaster, a narrow pitch with a light weight centre partnership and a sluggish backrow.

I firmly believe that with a possible backline of :

9. Laidlaw/Cusiter
10. Weir/Scott/Heathcote
11. Visser/Ansbro
12. Dunbar/Messiah
13. Horne/Fife/Hogg/Ansbro
14. Maitland/Seymour
15. Hogg/Brown/Tonks

we'll be much stronger than the team that played in the latest world cup. Names like Morrison, Parks and Lamont anywhere near the centre will be a distant memory.

The core of what could be our RWC team at the moment has an average age of 23!

Biltong wrote:

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:I think Biltong is onto something here - the AIs showed that we simply lack the physicality/stomach to compete head on with up-front, powerful teams like SA and Samoa - if they add some additional flair in the backs too, we're even more in the doo, as we currently do not have the handling and ball skills to go around these guys nor the tactical nous to open them up. That is the sad reality

Now, now. No need to be that negative. All I am suggesting is we are going to improve, the history of Scotland is better against Samoa than us. Hence their must win game is samoa.

I'd agree with this. We know we can beat South Africa, but it's unlikely considering our overall record against them is hardly in our favour. So we should look to finish 2nd and then take our chances with the winner from group A. That said, we should try and beat RSA unlike the reserve team we put out against the AB's in 2007 as you never know we could sneak an upset.

Still a long way to go for both teams, as Biltong has said, and both have the potential to improve massively before then, as do Samoa and the rest of the pool.

We should be aiming to win every game - all the teams are beatable.

EWT Spoons wrote:

Biltong wrote:

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:I think Biltong is onto something here - the AIs showed that we simply lack the physicality/stomach to compete head on with up-front, powerful teams like SA and Samoa - if they add some additional flair in the backs too, we're even more in the doo, as we currently do not have the handling and ball skills to go around these guys nor the tactical nous to open them up. That is the sad reality

Now, now. No need to be that negative. All I am suggesting is we are going to improve, the history of Scotland is better against Samoa than us. Hence their must win game is samoa.

I'd agree with this. We know we can beat South Africa, but it's unlikely considering our overall record against them is hardly in our favour. So we should look to finish 2nd and then take our chances with the winner from group A. That said, we should try and beat RSA unlike the reserve team we put out against the AB's in 2007 as you never know we could sneak an upset.

Still a long way to go for both teams, as Biltong has said, and both have the potential to improve massively before then, as do Samoa and the rest of the pool.

Exactly, the first priority is to get into the play offs, if you get there you worry about the next step.

Biltong dangles his pocket watch in front of Scottish noses!

"You are becoming sleepy but hark, listen to my words. You cannot - will not - beat the Boks. It is an impossibility. Don't follow that empty dream. Move along. Think of the following round. After the count of three you will have regained consciousness but you'll follow my advise"

Good one, Biltong - getting the psychological warfare in early

I am just speaking my mind Fly.

We have only ever lost one pool match against england in 2003. I don't foresee us losing one in 2015, it is not arrogance, but confidence in how we do in world cups.

I'm only messing around Bitong... reasoning is on your side. But I just thought of the pocket watch as you soothed Scottish hopes and channelled them to more 'realistic' expectations

Considering we could have been in the same group as New Zealand and England/Ireland, this is a good outcome.

We will have long odds against South Africa, but Samoa are beatable. We have two years to get players like Visser and Maitland entrenched into our game plan, and two years to get Gray, Denton and co. into a well tuned pack.

It's a physical group, but we have physical players. Provided we get the right coach, I think we have the players and the quality to progress ahead of Samoa. We should be playing as many games against Tonga, Fiji and Samoa over the next couple of years as possible.

I think Biltong protests too much. I think he is scared of the might Scotland

My advise would be to plan, plan, plan, (observe, observe, observe) to beat South Africa and then you certainly should be in a position to take on Samoa..but the bonus just might be - just might be - that you steal the game against SA too.

They were surprised by Wales last time...and Ireland knocked Australia off their perch. Stranger things have happened. So I'd look at SA for the duration and plan a game that might give them a game. Even if it doesn't work, it (the gameplan and players for it) then should be reasonably good enough to unsettle Samoa.

SecretFly wrote:My advise would be to plan, plan, plan, (observe, observe, observe) to beat South Africa and then you certainly should be in a position to take on Samoa..but the bonus just might be - just might be - that you steal the game against SA too.

They were surprised by Wales last time...and Ireland knocked Australia off their perch. Stranger things have happened. So I'd look at SA for the duration and plan a game that might give them a game. Even if it doesn't work, it (the gameplan and players for it) then should be reasonably good enough to unsettle Samoa.

Not sure I agree with that. Could we not plan to beat them both? Pretty sure we'll need to be more sophisticated than simply rolling out the same game plan against every side we face.