This weekend will further highlight the WRUs incompetence

The WRU has failed rugby supporters in Wales by having a narrow minded focus on their financial situation rather than on the general good of the game in Wales.

The weakness of this strategy was covered up for the first few years of regional rugby by the riches in playing talent that the regions inherited from the earlier structure and the academy system has undoubtedly thrown up a number of young players who are now the backbone of Wales' normaly successful national side. However, the the regions wont succeed with a handful each of talented young men, they need to maintain a hard core of experienced internationals to have any chance of winning against the top sides. But without the WRU providing adequate financial support for the regions top players will continue to leave while performance, expectation and gate reciepts will continue to slide.

This Autumn's Internationals have demonstrated that we are not going to win unless our players are used to winning and expect to win at the highest Level. The Dragons have no idea what it means to have a winning mentality while the Blues!!! Halfpenny hasn't played in a winning team since March and the rest of the Blues international players cannot have won more than a couple of times since then either. The Scarlets young bucks look good on occasions but don't have the experience and are already as good as out of the HC and the Ospreys ............... well Saturday was the first time since their formation that the Welsh starting lineup didn't have an Osprey in it (I am guessing but am pretty sure that is correct).

This weekend, because of the WRU's greed in putting on a 4th AI, the regions will play the next round of HC matches without their teams having played together for over a month and with a large number of their best players injured or exausted..... what chance does that give them! Who wants to watch them be humiliated, I don't.

Ok, in time we may find a way to do ok as a national side, following the model of Argentina where our elite players hone their skills at the worlds richest clubs, and the WRU will probably continue to fill the MS with people who enjoy spectacle and alcohol (people like me really). But without stars to watch, a poor quality league and little or no chance of winning at European level the fan base will continue to wither ............. and even if it doesn't wither it wont be happy, there is no fun watching your team play poor quality rugby ( yes I was at last Friday's Ospreys v Blues match, it was utterly depressing to see what are supposed to be two top welsh teams play with such little idea, and that wasn't just the Blues!

The WRU has failed rugby supporters in Wales by having a narrow minded focus on their financial situation rather than on the general good of the game in Wales.

Just what on earth are you talking about? The WRU needs to pay off a debt and fund the game in Wales. They need all the money they can get to develop the infrastructure, which they have been doing. The acadamies are good but they need to do step in and improve the top level. Allowing the internationals to go play elsewhere will not help.

So Morgannwg you think that the state of regional rugby reflects success? The Welsh Rugby Union should be ensuring the general health of rugby in Wales, in my view they are failing at that task.

I agree that letting the top players go abroad is going to make the situation worse and it is another example of the WRU failing to put funds where it will help the regions keep these players and let fans enjoy good quality rugby

Now why do you even ask me that?

And, if you agree with me then why do you think letting our players go to rich French clubs is a possitive move? It's kinda contradictory of your points.

Newsilure wrote:This weekend, because of the WRU's greed in putting on a 4th AI, the regions will play the next round of HC matches without their teams having played together for over a month

Ah the Scarlets are ok, our first choice (availlable) pack have been playing together during the AIs for the Scarlets and our first choice backline has been playing together for Wales

Being serious I think if Wales didn't have so many players, and back-up players (and back-up to the back up players) missing in the front five then we may not have been making such a fuss about the extra AI, as IMO we would have won the minimum of one match, and stayed in the top eight, had a better RWC draw and the only grumbling would have been from the regional first camp (me included, before anyone says anything).

Unfortunately we are as a nation feeling a bit down due to the AIs, and the regions are going to suffer. If you look at the last round of fixtures, and imagine the forth AI was not being played, the regions would have had good warm-up games to bring the ir internationals back prior to the HEC. The Ospreys V Blues would have seen a handful of the fringe welsh squad starting and then the likes of BIggar etc given some game time off the bench. A Derby match is a good intensity, and those boys would have had a chance to be along side their regional team mates and get back into the regional game at a decent level before the HEC. The Scarlets V Ulster would have been a good very important game for Samson Lee Ken Owens, and Scott Williams to show the WRU why they should have been involved in the AIs more, and a good game for some of the others to come off the bench and get back into the regional swing.

SO all in all the 4th AI this year has cost us;
1) the $750k we paid the Aussies to play us,
2) a place in an easier RWC pool
3) the regions chances for good home attendance matches (1st V 2nd, Welsh Derby)
4) the chance to bring players back into regionnal action in the RAbo prior to the big HEC matches.

Morgannwg wrote:

The WRU has failed rugby supporters in Wales by having a narrow minded focus on their financial situation rather than on the general good of the game in Wales.

Just what on earth are you talking about? The WRU needs to pay off a debt and fund the game in Wales.

Yes, but they don't need to do it so quick they leave the pro game a wasteland because they stingily thought they could rinse the benefactors for every penny they're worth, and support professional rugby at no real cost to themselves.

Morgannwg wrote: They need all the money they can get to develop the infrastructure, which they have been doing. The acadamies are good but they need to do step in and improve the top level. Allowing the internationals to go play elsewhere will not help.

Funny, you wrote a thread just now bemoaning the Dragon's squad depth. Who's in charge of the Dragons Academy again?

Do know about some of that
"But without stars to watch, a poor quality league and little or no chance of winning at European level the fan base will continue to wither ............. "

The fan bases are increaing not decreasing, put without the big name Wels players it will make it harder,

Poor Quality league, I don't think so, the Irish teams are pretty good, and as has been said before if you don't think they take it serious, then why are 3 of them in the top 4 places?

I think a park of th eproblem is Welsh fans were used to saying that there teams were the best in the world, and at times could argue that Cardiff, newport Llanalli etc were the best in Europe (before h-cup days) and they considered winning the Welsh league to show they were among the top in Europe, now they are struggling, newport as Dragons fans cannot say they are among the top teams in Europe same for Blues, and hence this doom mongering starts. if they were winning and among th etop in Europe we wouldn't hear this.

Stone Motif wrote:

Morgannwg wrote:

The WRU has failed rugby supporters in Wales by having a narrow minded focus on their financial situation rather than on the general good of the game in Wales.

Just what on earth are you talking about? The WRU needs to pay off a debt and fund the game in Wales.

Yes, but they don't need to do it so quick they leave the pro game a wasteland because they stingily thought they could rinse the benefactors for every penny they're worth, and support professional rugby at no real cost to themselves.

Morgannwg wrote: They need all the money they can get to develop the infrastructure, which they have been doing. The acadamies are good but they need to do step in and improve the top level. Allowing the internationals to go play elsewhere will not help.

Funny, you wrote a thread just now bemoaning the Dragon's squad depth. Who's in charge of the Dragons Academy again?

I guess they were wrong then. But there is no doubt that what the WRU has done has improved the infrastructure.

And what I'm saying is they need to step in and improve the top level, which is the regions, which was one of my points on the thread I wrote.

Morgannwg wrote:
I guess they were wrong then. But there is no doubt that what the WRU has done has improved the infrastructure.

I don't see it sorry. Team Wales is largely fecked once several key pre-regional players are out of the equation (Shane, Adam). The WRU run Dragons Academy has produced all of two internationals in ten years, and one of them could quite well have been capped by England if Tommy hadn't stumbled across him out at Filton College. The other regions give us stick for this but the prospects out of their academies aren't much better when held up to the harsh scrutiny of test rugby versus the SH teams.

The 4th AI game is arranged out of pure greed plian and simple, it doesn't benefit the Rgions one bit and this in particular it has come back to bite us in the arse.

If we hadn't played the 4th game and subsequently lost it we would have remained in the 2nd tier of the rankings.

Stone Motif wrote:

Morgannwg wrote:
I guess they were wrong then. But there is no doubt that what the WRU has done has improved the infrastructure.

I don't see it sorry. Team Wales is largely fecked once several key pre-regional players are out of the equation (Shane, Adam). The WRU run Dragons Academy has produced all of two internationals in ten years, and one of them could quite well have been capped by England if Tommy hadn't stumbled across him out at Filton College. The other regions give us stick for this but the prospects out of their academies aren't much better when held up to the harsh scrutiny of test rugby versus the SH teams.

Stone who are the only two players to come from the Dragons academy that you are talking about

Dan Lydiate and Toby Faletau.

Stone Motif wrote:Dan Lydiate and Toby Faletau.

What about Will Harries, Lloyd Burns (retired unfortunately), Lewis Evans, Wayne Evans,

What about them?

Will Harries came through Northampton, Burner played in the Prem til he was 27, Lewis Evans has yet to play for Wales and Wayne Evans was part of the Blues Academy.

Not exactly a glowing recommendation of the WRU Dragons Academy, is it?

You know I was talking about the infrastructure in Wales in general, not just the Dragons. You only have to look at the increasing quality of the academy teams.

How do you know the quality is increasing?

The only objective measure of that is when these players go into international competition, and even though I would agree our players are the most professional and the best conditioned I've seen them (if woefully short of skills and tactical nous at times), we're way off the top tier nations.

Arguably in fact the lower tier nations have caught up to us more quickly than we have caught up to the top tier.

Results and good players coming through the academy.

Morg

Have to disagree, having been part of the Dragons academy for a few seasons it isn't going very well and isn't producing more and more talent, it's struggling to produce any real quality!

We wil never catcth the top tier teams, we don't have the junior systems in place to do so!!

And regarding the thread, this is nothing dissimilar to what Ive been ranting about like a looney since the start of the season!!

"Wayne Evans was part of the Blues Academy."

Wayne Evans was a Carmarthen Quins Youth player!

Jeez a few months ago the Academies were brill, producing high quality international players that can win a Grand Slam,
now there all crap, as Wales dropped out of top 8

Did a load of academy gradutes retire after the Grand Slam?

There is still plenty of good about the regions.

This year the H-cup was never going to be good for Welsh teams. The two best teams Scarlets and Ospreys were both in groups of death, and both were tier 3 sides, meaning qualification would be unlikley, next year with a better draw they may be able to do better.

Cardiff Blues were a tier one side, but have been going backwards and everyone knew h-cup was going to be tough for them. If Scarlets or Ospreys were in that group you could be looking at a Welsh team in knock out rounds.

It's just bad luck this year.
Except that while next year will be tough as Scarlets as ospreys are likly to remain tier 3 and Blues drop to tier2/3, but with luck they both won't end up in groups of death.

Kingshu wrote:Jeez a few months ago the Academies were brill, producing high quality international players that can win a Grand Slam,
now there all crap, as Wales dropped out of top 8

Did a load of academy gradutes retire after the Grand Slam?

There is still plenty of good about the regions.

I know tell me about it. You have to wonder what some people are on about when they come out with bollox like "I've been around here n there and the academy is rubbish, bla bla.."

Anyway, just as I had hoped the WRU would be trying to get the club game out of this rut with some smart solutions, they come out with this w@nk solution:

A new professional body created to strengthen and develop professional rugby in Wales, both on and off the field, is being established by the WRU and the four Welsh regions.

The Professional Regional Game Board (PRGB) is being formed follo
wing considerable and constructive discussion between the WRU and the Regions (the Scarlets, Ospreys, Newport Gwent Dragons and Cardiff Blues) following an independent review into the regional game. http://www.wru.co.uk/eng/news/24319.php#.UL8V31IXKmE

Who said rubbish???

The NZ U20's game was a huge highlight for the young Welsh players, but months before they were thrashed by 90 odd points!!!

The Wales regional teams seem to train their boys to performance and not skill aqcuisition from the age of 14 so to keep competitive with each other and the English teams who they play very regularly. The regional junior teams are very competitive at that age but the numbers lost in the academy set up through to regional rugby are huge.

There are so many youngsters who if kept playing could probably bypass those who are kept on, the selection process is a joke, trust me I have seen it first hand from U14's (first year of selection) to the senior academy.

Lets just take a minute and actually think about where these grand slamers came from, because anyone in their mid/late 20's certainly learnt their skills at a club, then moved to a region, the Academies havn't been going long enough to claim a moral right to half the welsh squad!!

The likes of Falatau, Warburton, Lydiate, North and 1/2p are all good academy products, but are all flawed similarly as well, none of them are good all rounders at the top table!!

The likes of Cuthbert, Roberts, Phillips have all masked their lack of quality with physiological attributes!!!

And I am willing to put my life on the line and say a large number of boys rejected at junior level were far more talented, and showed far more potential, but being late developers couldn't compete with the others and were deselected (and there has been I have got in so many arguments about it)

I watch Championship and Division 1 West games on a regular basis. Believe me thare are numerous talented players plying their trade in these leagues. There used to be an annual Regional Under 25's Competition which culminated in an Amatuers International fixture. This competition identified players who had either slipped through the academy net or were late developers. Aaron Shingler came through this route. The Competition and Amatuer International side were dropped some years ago to save costs.

It's a double edged sword. If Australia hadn't scored that try in the last 30 seconds, Wales would have won.

A win vs Australia would have helped in all aspects -boost Wales' confidence and ranking. Plus the revenue gained from the game will help.

It's a calculated risk.

Going on the back of the Wales' grand slam win Wales would have eyed up Australia as a realistic scalp and Wales weren't far off winning.

But that word 'scalp' I can't stand it!!! I heard the players syaing it over and over, to me suggests that you know the opposition are better!!

IMHO Wales went to Aus as favourites, the fitter and stronger squad (although half the pack hadn't played rugby in months) and shouldve won the series 2-1 at least, Australia have been immensely poor for about a year now and should be getting hammered left right and centre, but Wales just couldn't help but think that winning those games would be so huge for the underdog, and paniced near the finish line, a confident team put's 2 of those 3 games to bed clenches their fist and moves on to the next challenge al NZ, but Wales were so overawed by beating the mighty Aus, it's garbage!!!

thebluesmancometh wrote:But that word 'scalp' I can't stand it!!! I heard the players syaing it over and over, to me suggests that you know the opposition are better!!

ahhhh i rather like it myself . I can't see it meaning any superiority .... mind you, it's all opinion and them being like a**eholes and all

Newsilure wrote:The WRU has failed rugby supporters in Wales by having a narrow minded focus on their financial situation rather than on the general good of the game in Wales.

The weakness of this strategy was covered up for the first few years of regional rugby by the riches in playing talent that the regions inherited from the earlier structure and the academy system has undoubtedly thrown up a number of young players who are now the backbone of Wales' normaly successful national side. However, the the regions wont succeed with a handful each of talented young men, they need to maintain a hard core of experienced internationals to have any chance of winning against the top sides. But without the WRU providing adequate financial support for the regions top players will continue to leave while performance, expectation and gate reciepts will continue to slide.

This Autumn's Internationals have demonstrated that we are not going to win unless our players are used to winning and expect to win at the highest Level. The Dragons have no idea what it means to have a winning mentality while the Blues!!! Halfpenny hasn't played in a winning team since March and the rest of the Blues international players cannot have won more than a couple of times since then either. The Scarlets young bucks look good on occasions but don't have the experience and are already as good as out of the HC and the Ospreys ............... well Saturday was the first time since their formation that the Welsh starting lineup didn't have an Osprey in it (I am guessing but am pretty sure that is correct).

This weekend, because of the WRU's greed in putting on a 4th AI, the regions will play the next round of HC matches without their teams having played together for over a month and with a large number of their best players injured or exausted..... what chance does that give them! Who wants to watch them be humiliated, I don't.

Ok, in time we may find a way to do ok as a national side, following the model of Argentina where our elite players hone their skills at the worlds richest clubs, and the WRU will probably continue to fill the MS with people who enjoy spectacle and alcohol (people like me really). But without stars to watch, a poor quality league and little or no chance of winning at European level the fan base will continue to wither ............. and even if it doesn't wither it wont be happy, there is no fun watching your team play poor quality rugby ( yes I was at last Friday's Ospreys v Blues match, it was utterly depressing to see what are supposed to be two top welsh teams play with such little idea, and that wasn't just the Blues!

Hang on, we were world cup semi finalists, we won a grand slam in the last 6 nations and the last game between the blues and ospreys was exciting and filled with talented young welsh lads who tried to entertain the crowd.

I was thilled at the standard of rugby from the ospreys and hopeful for both teams knowing all those young lads could add to the depth of the region in the next few seasons.

the autumn internationals were not great for wales but there is no need to get rope out and head for bridgend, jesus...

Ah well Shifty I am from Bridgend so that may account for my bleak outlook. I enjoyed the World cup as well but I cannot agree with you about the standard of play between the Ospreys and the Blues I thought it was poor with the best performances either from foreigners such as Kahn, or pre regional rugby diehards such as Duncan, although Eli was a bright spark of youth.

I just don't see enough of that bright spark being produced in Wales, under the current system, for us to be able to look forward with any great optimism to being able to watch quality rugby on a regular basis at the regional level.

I was further disenchanted this week when one of the key aims announced for the new Professional Regional Game Board was to make the regions competattive within Europe within 5 years. That just sounded to me like Roger Lewis setting a target out beyond when he hopes to retire and far enough away to avoid the flack this weekends results, and Heineken results for the foreseeable future, are likely to generate.