About v2Magna Cop Out
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pioden gorllewin
munkian
bedfordwelsh
Casartelli
Impossible Standards
Irish Londoner
Morgannwg
dogtooth
Cyril
Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler
Luckless Pedestrian
Glas a du
16 posters
The v2 Forum :: Sport :: Rugby Union :: Club Rugby
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Magna Cop Out
by Glas a du Tue 04 Dec 2012, 11:56 pm
King John had a spot of bother with his Barons. To try and solve it he drew up Magna Carta...
I have received a joint press release from the WRU and the Regions. It's embargoed; there's posh. That usually means its quite important. Magna Carta however it is not, more like Magna Cop Out.
"A professional body created to strengthen and develop professional rugby in Wales, both on and off the field, is being established by the WRU and the four Welsh Regions."
The board will consist of four members of the WRU, four members of the Regions and an Independent Chair. More money will be made available to the Regions from the WRU centrally as a result.
There are eight "definitive objectives":
1 maximise performance of the national teams
2 improve the financial management of the Regions
3 retain senior Welsh internationals playing in Wales
4 develop Welsh international players
5 achieve four Regions which can effectively compete at the top of European rugby within five years
6 support the Principality Premiership
7 support and develop the community game
8 ensure sustainability of the Millennium Stadium.
Fine aims, but where is the debit? We all know the rules of double accounting, for every credit, there must be a debit, even when there is apparently more money available.
Who will lose out? All of these aims will take money to achieve. Where will that money come from? Is it being deflected from paying down the WRU's debts? Is it based on projections from when Wales have been doing relatively well on the field recently?
It seems to me that the aims are contradictory. We have already seen that the WRU will arrange extra autumn games irrespective of the Regions' European endeavours; the sustainability of the Millennium Stadium trumping the European aspirations of the Regions, for the second year running.
That however is the obvious example.
There is a strong case for saying that Welsh international players develop better in the French league, or even the English league. The Regions can develop homegrown talent to take the place of the stars who have moved away, their wage bills are less which helps their finances.
This doesn't sit neatly with winning the European Cup though.
To do that you need to splash out, gambling that if you achieve success that will put in train a virtuous circle.
You could do that by competing with foreign clubs for Welsh players under aim 3, and then watch them being injured playing for Wales and be unavailable at crucial points in the season due to Wales squad training.
Or, you could compete with England and France for the best semi retired Southern Hemisphere players, which avoids that predicament, but puts future Welsh stars that need game time at the highest level on the bench.
All this misses the point though. The list is a sop. A populist set of desires. Paying lip service, trying to keep everybody happy. I hope the new board realise that they won't be able to do all of the above, and find their priorities.
Welsh rugby is as feudal as medieval Britain. In a feudal system, when the King is broke he puts pressure on the Barons, they pass that pressure downwards to the next tier and so on as far as they can, but also try to put it back on the King. That is exactly what has happened since regionalisation. The WRU as King set up the fiefdoms of the regions and all parties have been involved in a classic power struggle since. After Magna Carta, King John carried on in much the same vein as he had before. The friction points between him and the Barons were exactly the same as they had been before.
And that is precisely what will happen to this latter day accord. Everybody talks about common purposes, but give it a few weeks and the old cracks will appear.
The WRU either have to give the Regions their independence or take their management in house in a franchise system. This proposed compromise will not resolve the fundamental power struggle at the heart of professional rugby in Wales.
http://v2journal.com/magna-cop-out.html
I have received a joint press release from the WRU and the Regions. It's embargoed; there's posh. That usually means its quite important. Magna Carta however it is not, more like Magna Cop Out.
"A professional body created to strengthen and develop professional rugby in Wales, both on and off the field, is being established by the WRU and the four Welsh Regions."
The board will consist of four members of the WRU, four members of the Regions and an Independent Chair. More money will be made available to the Regions from the WRU centrally as a result.
There are eight "definitive objectives":
1 maximise performance of the national teams
2 improve the financial management of the Regions
3 retain senior Welsh internationals playing in Wales
4 develop Welsh international players
5 achieve four Regions which can effectively compete at the top of European rugby within five years
6 support the Principality Premiership
7 support and develop the community game
8 ensure sustainability of the Millennium Stadium.
Fine aims, but where is the debit? We all know the rules of double accounting, for every credit, there must be a debit, even when there is apparently more money available.
Who will lose out? All of these aims will take money to achieve. Where will that money come from? Is it being deflected from paying down the WRU's debts? Is it based on projections from when Wales have been doing relatively well on the field recently?
It seems to me that the aims are contradictory. We have already seen that the WRU will arrange extra autumn games irrespective of the Regions' European endeavours; the sustainability of the Millennium Stadium trumping the European aspirations of the Regions, for the second year running.
That however is the obvious example.
There is a strong case for saying that Welsh international players develop better in the French league, or even the English league. The Regions can develop homegrown talent to take the place of the stars who have moved away, their wage bills are less which helps their finances.
This doesn't sit neatly with winning the European Cup though.
To do that you need to splash out, gambling that if you achieve success that will put in train a virtuous circle.
You could do that by competing with foreign clubs for Welsh players under aim 3, and then watch them being injured playing for Wales and be unavailable at crucial points in the season due to Wales squad training.
Or, you could compete with England and France for the best semi retired Southern Hemisphere players, which avoids that predicament, but puts future Welsh stars that need game time at the highest level on the bench.
All this misses the point though. The list is a sop. A populist set of desires. Paying lip service, trying to keep everybody happy. I hope the new board realise that they won't be able to do all of the above, and find their priorities.
Welsh rugby is as feudal as medieval Britain. In a feudal system, when the King is broke he puts pressure on the Barons, they pass that pressure downwards to the next tier and so on as far as they can, but also try to put it back on the King. That is exactly what has happened since regionalisation. The WRU as King set up the fiefdoms of the regions and all parties have been involved in a classic power struggle since. After Magna Carta, King John carried on in much the same vein as he had before. The friction points between him and the Barons were exactly the same as they had been before.
And that is precisely what will happen to this latter day accord. Everybody talks about common purposes, but give it a few weeks and the old cracks will appear.
The WRU either have to give the Regions their independence or take their management in house in a franchise system. This proposed compromise will not resolve the fundamental power struggle at the heart of professional rugby in Wales.
http://v2journal.com/magna-cop-out.html
- Spoiler:
- JOINT PRESS RELEASE FROM WELSH RUGBY UNION AND WELSH REGIONS
NEW RUGBY BODY CREATED TO STEER PROFESSIONAL GAME FORWARD IN WALES
A new professional body created to strengthen and develop professional rugby in Wales, both on and off the field, is being established by the WRU and the four Welsh Regions.
The Professional Regional Game Board (PRGB) is being formed following considerable and constructive discussion between the WRU and the Regions (the Scarlets, Ospreys, Newport Gwent Dragons and Cardiff Blues) following an independent review into the Regional game.
The new board, comprising of four members of the WRU, four members of the Regions and an Independent Chair, will have clear objectives to improve the position and strength of Welsh professional rugby, both on and off the field, supported with additional resource from the WRU.
A formal Memorandum of Understanding has been signed by the WRU and the four Regions and will now be incorporated into the existing Participation Agreement between all parties.
The discussions between the Regions and the WRU have been based on the findings of an independent report into Regional rugby in Wales by accountants PwC.
The Group Chief Executive of the WRU, Roger Lewis said; “The formation of the new Professional Regional Game Board is a landmark moment in the history of Welsh rugby.
“By working together, we will create a unity of purpose for Welsh professional rugby which will be underpinned by collective management, enhanced with greater central resources and structured to ensure effective decision-making.
“The PRGB will play a significant role in helping Regional rugby make real progress, both on and off the field, in the years ahead.
“The PwC report confirmed to all of us in uncompromising detail that we have to act very differently, so we have worked hard in a spirit of unity to forge a structure that can provide workable and meaningful solutions.
“It is abundantly clear that we have to forge a strong and collaborative working partnership going forward and the new PRGB will be vehicle for that.
“The PwC report did not make easy reading for anyone involved and the boards and management of the Regions should be proud of the way they have confronted some tough realities to reach this point.
“I want to thank my colleagues from the four Regions who have showed immense resolve and determination to achieve this solution.
“A lot of hard work lies ahead, but the PRGB offers us a management structure capable of making the tough but realistic decisions which will benefit the game as a whole. Over the course of the next twelve months we have to build a foundation for the future.”
Speaking on behalf of the four Regions the Chief Executive of the Scarlets, Mark Davies, said: “For Welsh rugby to be truly successful we must all ensure that the game is healthy and sustainable for the long term at every level of the sport.
“To achieve that aim within finite resources and a harsh economic climate the only way forward is to work effectively together and use those resources wisely in the pursuit of a clear and common goal.
“The PRGB is the result of a period of genuine, open and constructive dialogue, assisted by the initiative of the PwC review with the WRU and the four Regions committing to deliver on clear and agreed objectives over time, as the first step towards securing a healthy future for the professional game in Wales.
“The work that we have undertaken together over the last twelve months has demonstrated that there are no simple answers – we have a lot more hard work ahead of us, but by utilising the collective expertise within the WRU and the Regions we are all determined that we will define and deliver the right solutions for the future.”
The clear role of the PRGB is to achieve strong, sustainable and competitive professional rugby at international and Regional level in Wales.
That will be delivered through the achievement of eight definitive objectives;
To underpin, support and maximise performance of the national teams
To improve the overall financial management of the Regions
To help retain senior Welsh internationals playing in Wales where appropriate
To develop Welsh international players
To achieve four Regions which can effectively compete at the top of European rugby within five years
To support the Principality Premiership
To ensure the continued support and development of the community game
To ensure the continued sustainabilityof the Millennium Stadium
The signed document states that:
It is believed that by working together a number of benefits will be achieved by each Region and the WRU, but most importantly, it is hoped that it will achieve competitive, sustainable, professional rugby for the Regions and for the benefit of Welsh rugby.
The new PRGB will be based on a collaborative approach and will meet monthly to review and deliver progress.
A consistent format detailed five year Business plan will be agreed and implemented by each Region, with the PRGB undertaking formal quarterly reviews of performance against each current year plan
The distribution of current funding to the Regions from the WRU under the terms of the existing Participation Agreement will be monitored and overseen by the PRGB, with appropriate sanctions in place for actions taken without agreement of the new body.
A review of best operational practice will be instigated by the PRGB, key performance indicators established and potential cost savings identified and implemented through effective, collaborative working.
The PwC report commissioned by the WRU and agreed by the Regions in December 2011 was based on a detailed financial analysis of the last three years’ accounts from all five parties, together with analysis of the next three to five years’ financial projections.
Key conclusions of the report were that tighter financial planning and greater collaboration between all the Regions and the WRU are vital to the creation and delivery of a sustainable business model.
The PRGB will replace the existing Management Board, which was set up in 2009 to oversee the operational running of the Participation Agreement, which remains the contractual agreement between Welsh Rugby’s governing body and the Regions.
An Independent Chairman will be appointed to oversee the PRGB.
The first meeting of the PRGB is scheduled to take place later this month (December 2012).
- Spoiler:
STATEMENT ISSUED ON BEHALF OF THE WRU AND THE FOUR REGIONS
SIR WYN WILLIAMS TO CHAIR NEW PROFESSIONAL REGIONAL GAME BOARD
Following the joint announcement by the Welsh Rugby Union and the four Welsh Regions of the new Professional Regional Game Board, it can now be confirmed that Mr Justice Wyn Williams has been appointed as the inaugural chairman of the newly formed body.
The PRGB has been created to strengthen and develop professional rugby in Wales both on and off the field following an independent review carried out by PwC.
Sir Wyn Williams (61) will formally take up the appointment at the first meeting of the PRGB due to be held later this month.
The post does not receive any remuneration and Sir Wyn will attend the monthly PRGB meetings at times which do not conflict with his judicial duties.
Sir Wyn is a Presiding Judge for the Wales Circuit, was appointed a Specialist Chancery Judge for Wales in 2004, became a Bencher of the Inner Temple in 2007, took Silk in 1992 and was originally called to the Bar in 1974. He is also the Deputy Chairman for the Boundary Commission for Wales.
He was born in the Rhondda Valley, where he still lives, and is a former player, Chairman and remains a Trustee for life of Tylorstown RFC. Sir Wyn is an avid supporter of rugby at all levels in Wales.
The Group Chief Executive of the Welsh Rugby Union, Roger Lewis, said: “We are delighted to announce the appointment of someone of Sir Wyn’s calibre as the inaugural chair of the PRGB.
“His status as a High Court judge ensures he takes on this post with a formidable reputation for objectivity, fairness and an undoubted ability to find intelligent solutions to complex problems.
“His interest in rugby and true understanding of the game at all levels means he brings to the role a real knowledge of the issues which the PRGB will prioritise.
“As a High Court judge with a well-deserved reputation of national standing, Sir Wyn has all the qualities necessary to prove an ideal independent chair of the PRGB.”
Speaking on behalf of the four Regions, Scarlets Chief Executive, Mark Davies, added: “The scale, scope and role of the new PRGB and the clear aims that we have set out mean that we need a very considerable individual indeed to be able to share the responsibility and lead the discussions that result in us collectively achieving our objectives for a healthy and sustainable future for Welsh rugby.
"Sir Wyn Williams’ lifelong contribution to grassroots rugby and his firm belief that the best structures are built on strong foundations will be a tremendous asset to PRGB and Welsh rugby as a whole.
"His knowledge and passion for Welsh rugby, together with the scale and degree of judgement he employs daily at a very profound level, means it's a role clearly well within his capability and experience. I'm sure he will facilitate our discussions at PRGB in a clear and constructive manner and encourage a real spirit of unity, vision and purpose."
Last edited by Glas a du on Wed 05 Dec 2012, 6:05 pm; edited 1 time in total
Glas a du- Posts : 15843
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Re: Magna Cop Out
by Glas a du Wed 05 Dec 2012, 6:40 am
So...who's the chair going to be. An important detail that's been left out...
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Re: Magna Cop Out
by Luckless Pedestrian Wed 05 Dec 2012, 8:04 am
I think the term is 'pie in the sky'. Some of these objectives would surely cancel each other out, as you say.
You can't have your cake and eat it, messrs Lewis and Pickering.
Also, I hate the wording of no. 5:
'Achieve four Regions which can effectively compete at the top of European rugby within five years.'
The use of 'achieve' here is like those idiot estate agents on TV who say they think a house will 'achieve' X amount of money. Houses don't achieve!
And secondly, it should be 'compete effectively', not 'effectively compete'.
You can't have your cake and eat it, messrs Lewis and Pickering.
Also, I hate the wording of no. 5:
'Achieve four Regions which can effectively compete at the top of European rugby within five years.'
The use of 'achieve' here is like those idiot estate agents on TV who say they think a house will 'achieve' X amount of money. Houses don't achieve!
And secondly, it should be 'compete effectively', not 'effectively compete'.
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Re: Magna Cop Out
by Glas a du Wed 05 Dec 2012, 8:08 am
Lucky, have you thought that was put in there to draw your criticism from the obvious rot that the rest of it is.
Management speak 10/10
English 3/10
Management speak 10/10
English 3/10
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Re: Magna Cop Out
by Luckless Pedestrian Wed 05 Dec 2012, 8:17 am
It's actually shocking that a supposed business can release a list of objectives so ill-thought-through.
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Re: Magna Cop Out
by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Wed 05 Dec 2012, 8:45 am
Its more realistic than the SRU's stated aim to win the 2015 world cup. Not sure how they are matching up against targets yet, but Im assuming being worse than Tonga wasnt the year one benchmark
Didnt Johnnoget given some some stupid target of a 70% win rate and top two ranking?
Objectives need to be acheivable. If theres no plan other than "spend some cash" then its pretty certain that they will fail on the majority of these.
Didnt Johnnoget given some some stupid target of a 70% win rate and top two ranking?
Objectives need to be acheivable. If theres no plan other than "spend some cash" then its pretty certain that they will fail on the majority of these.
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Re: Magna Cop Out
by Glas a du Wed 05 Dec 2012, 9:13 am
Exactly. If prefer if they said, look lads we'll sort out the pro game from the Prem down can look after yourselves OK? At least that would be honest.
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Re: Magna Cop Out
by Cyril Wed 05 Dec 2012, 10:12 am
Like the requirement to have a basic grasp of Latin to work in Dixons, rugby press releases should not include split infinitives.
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professional regional game board.
by dogtooth Wed 05 Dec 2012, 10:17 am
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/20603049
is that all!?!?!?!?!?
is this the huge step forward for welsh rugby we were hearing being trupeted by lewis a few weeks ago? is this it?!
the board will meet monthly and will comprise 4 wru staff and 4 regional staff (1 from each region i suppose) i cant help thinking the wru will have advantage in these meetings and the concerns of the region will come second to the wishes of the wru.
is this really enough?
i should have known better but i thought we would see something a bit more radical, a revolution for professional rugby in wales. no, we got a talking shop where the wru will do most of the talking. i might go as far as to say, apart from the wru agreeing to host a monthy tea and bisuits session with the regional management nothing has changed.
ahh well, bright side, criticising lewis makes a change from criticising a coach or a priestland.
is that all!?!?!?!?!?
is this the huge step forward for welsh rugby we were hearing being trupeted by lewis a few weeks ago? is this it?!
the board will meet monthly and will comprise 4 wru staff and 4 regional staff (1 from each region i suppose) i cant help thinking the wru will have advantage in these meetings and the concerns of the region will come second to the wishes of the wru.
is this really enough?
i should have known better but i thought we would see something a bit more radical, a revolution for professional rugby in wales. no, we got a talking shop where the wru will do most of the talking. i might go as far as to say, apart from the wru agreeing to host a monthy tea and bisuits session with the regional management nothing has changed.
ahh well, bright side, criticising lewis makes a change from criticising a coach or a priestland.
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Re: Magna Cop Out
by Morgannwg Wed 05 Dec 2012, 10:23 am
As I've said elsewhere, what a w@nk solution. Just what is this board meant to do? Waste of money.
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Re: Magna Cop Out
by Luckless Pedestrian Wed 05 Dec 2012, 10:34 am
Cyril, what do think of the pedestrianisation of Norwich city centre?
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Re: Magna Cop Out
by Cyril Wed 05 Dec 2012, 10:53 am
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Cyril, what do think of the pedestrianisation of Norwich city centre?
Whhhheeeeeelllllchairs!
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Re: Magna Cop Out
by Glas a du Wed 05 Dec 2012, 11:42 am
See, you post a reasoned article, just what everybody said they wanted in the place of sensationalism, you get less than ten responses, half by me, and were talking about the pedestrianisation of blydi Norwich! And you wonder why people try to wind you up!
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Re: Magna Cop Out
by Irish Londoner Wed 05 Dec 2012, 11:57 am
Glas, I think the plan is a tacit admission that below the regions everyone else is now going to play devil take the hindmost in terms of finance and other support. Of course for reasons social and political this can't be too overtly spelled out.
To be honest given the money available and the need to maximise income through the Millenium Stadium I don't think they have much choice, especially if the "reforms" to the HEC go through and Wales only has two clubs in the top level competition.
Am I right in thinking that the "fourth region" is the North Wales area rather the the "Clyb Valleys" that was being pushed a while back ?
To be honest given the money available and the need to maximise income through the Millenium Stadium I don't think they have much choice, especially if the "reforms" to the HEC go through and Wales only has two clubs in the top level competition.
Am I right in thinking that the "fourth region" is the North Wales area rather the the "Clyb Valleys" that was being pushed a while back ?
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Re: Magna Cop Out
by dogtooth Wed 05 Dec 2012, 12:41 pm
maybe its good to formalise the coversation betwen the union and the pro teams but i thought they had agreed some sort of restructuring plan. welsh rugby needs more at the moment than a talking shop.
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Re: Magna Cop Out
by Impossible Standards Wed 05 Dec 2012, 1:43 pm
Isn't this what Regional rugby wales was doing anyway? I agree, I was expecting some sort of radical change and the so called world leading system in place that was to be the envy of other unions as Sir Roger put it. I can't feel this is just a easy way for the WRU to byed some more time as it is obviously concerned with paying off that debt first!
Can Roger lewis ever be honest, I think even if his wife asked him what the time was he wouldn't actually answer her.
Can Roger lewis ever be honest, I think even if his wife asked him what the time was he wouldn't actually answer her.
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Re: Magna Cop Out
by Casartelli Wed 05 Dec 2012, 1:46 pm
Roger says it's all about revisiting the underpinnings.
Or underpinning the revisits.
Something like that.
Or underpinning the revisits.
Something like that.
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Re: Magna Cop Out
by Luckless Pedestrian Wed 05 Dec 2012, 2:04 pm
Irish Londoner, the last I heard was that the WRU told Valleys Rugby to go away and look at how things were being done at RGC1404 (the North Wales 'regional' side). RGC1404 are a proper side; Valleys Rugby has a website, a few cheerleaders and nothing much else.
The fourth region is still the Dragons - just about!
The fourth region is still the Dragons - just about!
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Re: Magna Cop Out
by bedfordwelsh Wed 05 Dec 2012, 2:20 pm
Did we really expect anything the WRU is run by bunch of muppets, he maybe a very astute business man but no clue when it comes to running a sport body.
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Re: Magna Cop Out
by munkian Wed 05 Dec 2012, 2:29 pm
Shouldn't we probably wait for more details and jusge it after its first month before we shoot it down in flames.
Anyway, until our players man up and starting playing rugby again very little else will help the regions.
Anyway, until our players man up and starting playing rugby again very little else will help the regions.
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Re: Magna Cop Out
by Casartelli Wed 05 Dec 2012, 2:32 pm
bedfordwelsh wrote:Did we really expect anything the WRU is run by bunch of muppets, he maybe a very astute business man but no clue when it comes to running a sport body.
Business administrator. 'Business man' implies that he's achieved some entrepreneurial success. I'm sure he's fab at making sure all the staplers have staples in them, but we need a rugby man at the top.
Pay Graham Henry whatever he wants to come back, as CEO this time.
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Re: Magna Cop Out
by bedfordwelsh Wed 05 Dec 2012, 2:33 pm
Cas,
Thats what I meant he maybe good on the business side but the playing side he hasnt a clue.
Thats what I meant he maybe good on the business side but the playing side he hasnt a clue.
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Re: Magna Cop Out
by pioden gorllewin Wed 05 Dec 2012, 2:40 pm
bit confused on this one - they say the new set up PRGB objectives are:
•To underpin, support and maximise performance of the national teams
•To improve the overall financial management of the regions
•To help retain senior Welsh internationals playing in Wales where appropriate
•To develop Welsh international players
•To achieve four regions which can effectively compete at the top of European rugby within five years
•To support the Principality Premiership
•To ensure the continued support and development of the community game
•To ensure the continued sustainability of the Millennium Stadium
isn't that the main basic role of the WRU in the first place? If not what exactly do the WRU do?
•To underpin, support and maximise performance of the national teams
•To improve the overall financial management of the regions
•To help retain senior Welsh internationals playing in Wales where appropriate
•To develop Welsh international players
•To achieve four regions which can effectively compete at the top of European rugby within five years
•To support the Principality Premiership
•To ensure the continued support and development of the community game
•To ensure the continued sustainability of the Millennium Stadium
isn't that the main basic role of the WRU in the first place? If not what exactly do the WRU do?
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Re: Magna Cop Out
by Casartelli Wed 05 Dec 2012, 2:43 pm
munkian wrote:Shouldn't we probably wait for more details and jusge it after its first month before we shoot it down in flames.
Anyway, until our players man up and starting playing rugby again very little else will help the regions.
The fact that it was promoted as something that would be the 'envy of the rugby playing world' - and then turned out to be a monthly management meeting, means that it should be shot down in flames. Big, burny flames.
It looks like agreement proved impossible on whatever was going to be announced 'by Xmas' - so they've cobbled together this nonsense at short notice so Roger can still claim to have met his key performance indicators, and thus get his bonus.
Only possible explanation. It's becoming a farce.
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Re: Magna Cop Out
by munkian Wed 05 Dec 2012, 2:45 pm
isn't that the main basic role of the WRU in the first place? If not what exactly do the WRU do
*Pay off Stadium debt
*Flood stadium with Prosecco and have peddalo wars
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Re: Magna Cop Out
by Glas a du Wed 05 Dec 2012, 2:49 pm
I understand that IL. I didn't know a committee had been set up in 09 until it was disbanded. I can't work out how there is extra money for this deal with nobody losing out. I don't know who they have chosen as the Chair, which is the single most important piece of information and how that person can be independent if paid by or selected by the WRU and if they have any knowledge of the game in Wales.
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Re: Magna Cop Out
by Guest Wed 05 Dec 2012, 2:52 pm
Glas, if you'd stuck it in the Club section I think it would have got more of a look in! This 'front of house' section seems more to do with general announcements, any other business, births marriages deaths, that sort of thing.
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Re: Magna Cop Out
by Kingshu Wed 05 Dec 2012, 3:26 pm
"To achieve four regions which can effectively compete at the top of European rugby within five years"
all 4 at top level in five years?
I suppose if you count finishing in top 8 of Pro 12 as top of European rugby then its achievable.
Scotland put forward winning the world cup as an aim, youd think they would have included winning at least one H-cup within 5 years as an aim.
all 4 at top level in five years?
I suppose if you count finishing in top 8 of Pro 12 as top of European rugby then its achievable.
Scotland put forward winning the world cup as an aim, youd think they would have included winning at least one H-cup within 5 years as an aim.
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Re: Magna Cop Out
by Guest Wed 05 Dec 2012, 3:31 pm
When I first read the thread title I thought it said "Professional Regional Board Game" - like Monopoly. I thought that would be a great idea as a Christmas present - 4 rugby sides and 4 sides to the board, all different colours; pass go and collect a few bonus points; get out of jail would be get out of the sin bin, or maybe getting let into the Amlin after flunking the HC; Mayfair would be somewhere in Ospreylia, whereas the Old Kent Road would be the Dragons part of the board; you could even have a system where the best players (instead of properties) were poached from each other. The 'region' (player) with all of the star players and all of the money would be the winner, although other regions in the game could get a hand out from the bank (WRU) to help them mount a challenge.
I'm going to go away and make that... or maybe not!
I'm going to go away and make that... or maybe not!
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Re: Magna Cop Out
by Impossible Standards Wed 05 Dec 2012, 4:51 pm
Don't be silly griff... the bank i mean WRU won't the regions hand outs! 
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Re: Magna Cop Out
by Impossible Standards Wed 05 Dec 2012, 4:54 pm
* give
Also we could include 'the french sweep' where every now and then half the players are removed from the board, leaving the regions half empty
Also we could include 'the french sweep' where every now and then half the players are removed from the board, leaving the regions half empty
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Re: Magna Cop Out
by Guest Wed 05 Dec 2012, 4:58 pm
Impossible Standards wrote:* give
Also we could include 'the french sweep' where every now and then half the players are removed from the board, leaving the regions half empty
That would be the European version of the game. Coming to stores for Christmas 2013.
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Re: Magna Cop Out
by Glas a du Wed 05 Dec 2012, 5:01 pm
Probably Griff, but it is to do with International and Club so I banged it in here, perhaps a kind MODERATOR will move it?
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Re: Magna Cop Out
by SecretFly Wed 05 Dec 2012, 5:08 pm
So...these ongoing European Cup negotiations just became that little bit more complicated still!:
IRB
ERC
RFU
PRL
WRU
PRGB
FFR
LNR
SRU
IRFU
FIR
"Now.... let me get this right. You agree with LNR but are controlled by WRU who says you should agree with IRFU who disagrees strongly with PRL who has had a falling out with RFU................"
IRB
ERC
RFU
PRL
WRU
PRGB
FFR
LNR
SRU
IRFU
FIR
"Now.... let me get this right. You agree with LNR but are controlled by WRU who says you should agree with IRFU who disagrees strongly with PRL who has had a falling out with RFU................"
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Re: Magna Cop Out
by Guest Wed 05 Dec 2012, 5:15 pm
Not to forget Rgional Rugby Wales (RRW), the original body set up to represent the regions' interests! Don't think that has been disbanded.
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Re: Magna Cop Out
by Glas a du Wed 05 Dec 2012, 5:44 pm
Derbyblue wrote:Is it in the right place now Glas?
Thank you kind Sir
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Re: Magna Cop Out
by Glas a du Wed 05 Dec 2012, 6:04 pm
Update:
STATEMENT ISSUED ON BEHALF OF THE WRU AND THE FOUR REGIONS
SIR WYN WILLIAMS TO CHAIR NEW PROFESSIONAL REGIONAL GAME BOARD
Following the joint announcement by the Welsh Rugby Union and the four Welsh Regions of the new Professional Regional Game Board, it can now be confirmed that Mr Justice Wyn Williams has been appointed as the inaugural chairman of the newly formed body.
The PRGB has been created to strengthen and develop professional rugby in Wales both on and off the field following an independent review carried out by PwC.
Sir Wyn Williams (61) will formally take up the appointment at the first meeting of the PRGB due to be held later this month.
The post does not receive any remuneration and Sir Wyn will attend the monthly PRGB meetings at times which do not conflict with his judicial duties.
Sir Wyn is a Presiding Judge for the Wales Circuit, was appointed a Specialist Chancery Judge for Wales in 2004, became a Bencher of the Inner Temple in 2007, took Silk in 1992 and was originally called to the Bar in 1974. He is also the Deputy Chairman for the Boundary Commission for Wales.
He was born in the Rhondda Valley, where he still lives, and is a former player, Chairman and remains a Trustee for life of Tylorstown RFC. Sir Wyn is an avid supporter of rugby at all levels in Wales.
The Group Chief Executive of the Welsh Rugby Union, Roger Lewis, said: “We are delighted to announce the appointment of someone of Sir Wyn’s calibre as the inaugural chair of the PRGB.
“His status as a High Court judge ensures he takes on this post with a formidable reputation for objectivity, fairness and an undoubted ability to find intelligent solutions to complex problems.
“His interest in rugby and true understanding of the game at all levels means he brings to the role a real knowledge of the issues which the PRGB will prioritise.
“As a High Court judge with a well-deserved reputation of national standing, Sir Wyn has all the qualities necessary to prove an ideal independent chair of the PRGB.”
Speaking on behalf of the four Regions, Scarlets Chief Executive, Mark Davies, added: “The scale, scope and role of the new PRGB and the clear aims that we have set out mean that we need a very considerable individual indeed to be able to share the responsibility and lead the discussions that result in us collectively achieving our objectives for a healthy and sustainable future for Welsh rugby.
"Sir Wyn Williams’ lifelong contribution to grassroots rugby and his firm belief that the best structures are built on strong foundations will be a tremendous asset to PRGB and Welsh rugby as a whole.
"His knowledge and passion for Welsh rugby, together with the scale and degree of judgement he employs daily at a very profound level, means it's a role clearly well within his capability and experience. I'm sure he will facilitate our discussions at PRGB in a clear and constructive manner and encourage a real spirit of unity, vision and purpose.
STATEMENT ISSUED ON BEHALF OF THE WRU AND THE FOUR REGIONS
SIR WYN WILLIAMS TO CHAIR NEW PROFESSIONAL REGIONAL GAME BOARD
Following the joint announcement by the Welsh Rugby Union and the four Welsh Regions of the new Professional Regional Game Board, it can now be confirmed that Mr Justice Wyn Williams has been appointed as the inaugural chairman of the newly formed body.
The PRGB has been created to strengthen and develop professional rugby in Wales both on and off the field following an independent review carried out by PwC.
Sir Wyn Williams (61) will formally take up the appointment at the first meeting of the PRGB due to be held later this month.
The post does not receive any remuneration and Sir Wyn will attend the monthly PRGB meetings at times which do not conflict with his judicial duties.
Sir Wyn is a Presiding Judge for the Wales Circuit, was appointed a Specialist Chancery Judge for Wales in 2004, became a Bencher of the Inner Temple in 2007, took Silk in 1992 and was originally called to the Bar in 1974. He is also the Deputy Chairman for the Boundary Commission for Wales.
He was born in the Rhondda Valley, where he still lives, and is a former player, Chairman and remains a Trustee for life of Tylorstown RFC. Sir Wyn is an avid supporter of rugby at all levels in Wales.
The Group Chief Executive of the Welsh Rugby Union, Roger Lewis, said: “We are delighted to announce the appointment of someone of Sir Wyn’s calibre as the inaugural chair of the PRGB.
“His status as a High Court judge ensures he takes on this post with a formidable reputation for objectivity, fairness and an undoubted ability to find intelligent solutions to complex problems.
“His interest in rugby and true understanding of the game at all levels means he brings to the role a real knowledge of the issues which the PRGB will prioritise.
“As a High Court judge with a well-deserved reputation of national standing, Sir Wyn has all the qualities necessary to prove an ideal independent chair of the PRGB.”
Speaking on behalf of the four Regions, Scarlets Chief Executive, Mark Davies, added: “The scale, scope and role of the new PRGB and the clear aims that we have set out mean that we need a very considerable individual indeed to be able to share the responsibility and lead the discussions that result in us collectively achieving our objectives for a healthy and sustainable future for Welsh rugby.
"Sir Wyn Williams’ lifelong contribution to grassroots rugby and his firm belief that the best structures are built on strong foundations will be a tremendous asset to PRGB and Welsh rugby as a whole.
"His knowledge and passion for Welsh rugby, together with the scale and degree of judgement he employs daily at a very profound level, means it's a role clearly well within his capability and experience. I'm sure he will facilitate our discussions at PRGB in a clear and constructive manner and encourage a real spirit of unity, vision and purpose.
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Re: Magna Cop Out
by Guest Wed 05 Dec 2012, 6:55 pm
Griff wrote:When I first read the thread title I thought it said "Professional Regional Board Game" - like Monopoly. I thought that would be a great idea as a Christmas present - 4 rugby sides and 4 sides to the board, all different colours; pass go and collect a few bonus points; get out of jail would be get out of the sin bin, or maybe getting let into the Amlin after flunking the HC; Mayfair would be somewhere in Ospreylia, whereas the Old Kent Road would be the Dragons part of the board; you could even have a system where the best players (instead of properties) were poached from each other. The 'region' (player) with all of the star players and all of the money would be the winner, although other regions in the game could get a hand out from the bank (WRU) to help them mount a challenge.
I'm going to go away and make that... or maybe not!
By the way, this now appears to be a merged thread which makes my post above make no sense (if it made any in the first place?!).
Guest- Guest
Re: Magna Cop Out
by Glas a du Wed 05 Dec 2012, 7:07 pm
I think a Welsh rugby monopoly should have a hint of realism. You are not allowed to play on your own, you must make every decision as a committee with all the other players...
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Re: Magna Cop Out
by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Wed 05 Dec 2012, 7:16 pm
Well at least theyve got a Wyn at last
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Re: Magna Cop Out
by Glas a du Wed 05 Dec 2012, 7:29 pm
Well, he's not being paid and is a High Court judge. That means he's certainly independent. Time will tell what the WRU will do if he breaks a deadlock in favour of the Regions. I predict a riot...
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Re: Magna Cop Out
by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Wed 05 Dec 2012, 7:34 pm
Reading that it does appear this is just a part time and rather pointless dinner club akin to the RFU Board of Farts.
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Re: Magna Cop Out
by SecretFly Wed 05 Dec 2012, 7:37 pm
Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:Reading that it does appear this is just a part time and rather pointless dinner club akin to the RFU Board of Farts.
Hmmm, a dedicated Norovirus club. Novel but interesting in light of the gains to be had in promoting it.
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Re: Magna Cop Out
by HammerofThunor Wed 05 Dec 2012, 7:43 pm
Griff wrote:Griff wrote:When I first read the thread title I thought it said "Professional Regional Board Game" - like Monopoly. I thought that would be a great idea as a Christmas present - 4 rugby sides and 4 sides to the board, all different colours; pass go and collect a few bonus points; get out of jail would be get out of the sin bin, or maybe getting let into the Amlin after flunking the HC; Mayfair would be somewhere in Ospreylia, whereas the Old Kent Road would be the Dragons part of the board; you could even have a system where the best players (instead of properties) were poached from each other. The 'region' (player) with all of the star players and all of the money would be the winner, although other regions in the game could get a hand out from the bank (WRU) to help them mount a challenge.
I'm going to go away and make that... or maybe not!
By the way, this now appears to be a merged thread which makes my post above make no sense (if it made any in the first place?!).
That would be amazing. I'd buy it (not for much but I'd still buy it).
Does this group actually have any power whatsoever? Or is it just a chat and then they have to try and convince their various bodies to enact what was suggested?
I mean if there is an agreement at the meeting that the 4th AI should be dropped are the WRU bound to do it or can they just say "no thanks"? Because if this is just a monthly meeting that suggests it wasn't happening before, which would be ridiculous.
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Re: Magna Cop Out
by Casartelli Wed 05 Dec 2012, 7:45 pm
Time to follow the Argentinian and Samoan models and revert to amateur rugby in Wales.
Let all the players go to England and France. Tougher leagues and better coaching.
Roger Lewis's salary, along with the wages of all the other management and executive fodder, would be far better spent on tackle bags for schools and colleges.
Let all the players go to England and France. Tougher leagues and better coaching.
Roger Lewis's salary, along with the wages of all the other management and executive fodder, would be far better spent on tackle bags for schools and colleges.
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Re: Magna Cop Out
by HammerofThunor Wed 05 Dec 2012, 7:56 pm
Er no thanks. You can keep them (or they can go to France).You have a better relationship with the French clubs.
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