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Magna Cop Out

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pioden gorllewin
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Glas a du
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Magna Cop Out - Page 2 Empty Magna Cop Out

Post by Glas a du Tue 04 Dec 2012, 11:56 pm

First topic message reminder :

King John had a spot of bother with his Barons. To try and solve it he drew up Magna Carta...

I have received a joint press release from the WRU and the Regions. It's embargoed; there's posh. That usually means its quite important. Magna Carta however it is not, more like Magna Cop Out.

"A professional body created to strengthen and develop professional rugby in Wales, both on and off the field, is being established by the WRU and the four Welsh Regions."

The board will consist of four members of the WRU, four members of the Regions and an Independent Chair. More money will be made available to the Regions from the WRU centrally as a result.

There are eight "definitive objectives":

1 maximise performance of the national teams

2 improve the financial management of the Regions

3 retain senior Welsh internationals playing in Wales

4 develop Welsh international players

5 achieve four Regions which can effectively compete at the top of European rugby within five years

6 support the Principality Premiership

7 support and develop the community game

8 ensure sustainability of the Millennium Stadium.

Fine aims, but where is the debit? We all know the rules of double accounting, for every credit, there must be a debit, even when there is apparently more money available.

Who will lose out? All of these aims will take money to achieve. Where will that money come from? Is it being deflected from paying down the WRU's debts? Is it based on projections from when Wales have been doing relatively well on the field recently?

It seems to me that the aims are contradictory. We have already seen that the WRU will arrange extra autumn games irrespective of the Regions' European endeavours; the sustainability of the Millennium Stadium trumping the European aspirations of the Regions, for the second year running.

That however is the obvious example.

There is a strong case for saying that Welsh international players develop better in the French league, or even the English league. The Regions can develop homegrown talent to take the place of the stars who have moved away, their wage bills are less which helps their finances.

This doesn't sit neatly with winning the European Cup though.

To do that you need to splash out, gambling that if you achieve success that will put in train a virtuous circle.

You could do that by competing with foreign clubs for Welsh players under aim 3, and then watch them being injured playing for Wales and be unavailable at crucial points in the season due to Wales squad training.

Or, you could compete with England and France for the best semi retired Southern Hemisphere players, which avoids that predicament, but puts future Welsh stars that need game time at the highest level on the bench.

All this misses the point though. The list is a sop. A populist set of desires. Paying lip service, trying to keep everybody happy. I hope the new board realise that they won't be able to do all of the above, and find their priorities.

Welsh rugby is as feudal as medieval Britain. In a feudal system, when the King is broke he puts pressure on the Barons, they pass that pressure downwards to the next tier and so on as far as they can, but also try to put it back on the King. That is exactly what has happened since regionalisation. The WRU as King set up the fiefdoms of the regions and all parties have been involved in a classic power struggle since. After Magna Carta, King John carried on in much the same vein as he had before. The friction points between him and the Barons were exactly the same as they had been before.

And that is precisely what will happen to this latter day accord. Everybody talks about common purposes, but give it a few weeks and the old cracks will appear.

The WRU either have to give the Regions their independence or take their management in house in a franchise system. This proposed compromise will not resolve the fundamental power struggle at the heart of professional rugby in Wales.

http://v2journal.com/magna-cop-out.html

Spoiler:

Spoiler:


Last edited by Glas a du on Wed 05 Dec 2012, 6:05 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Luckless Pedestrian Thu 06 Dec 2012, 7:56 am

HammerofThunor wrote:Does this group actually have any power whatsoever? Or is it just a chat and then they have to try and convince their various bodies to enact what was suggested?

That's the question, isn't it. You should put that to Roger Lewis, but make sure you tick the box for a reply in English rather than business-speak.

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Post by Glas a du Thu 06 Dec 2012, 8:03 am

I can't believe Lewis will allow this board to dictate to the WRU. It will surely be an advisory panel.
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Post by Casartelli Thu 06 Dec 2012, 9:02 am

"Advisory panel" makes it sound rather grand.

"Some blokes having a gossip once a month" is closer to the mark.

This is what the 'CEO' boasted earlier in the year;

"We are at a fundamental crossroads in the history of Welsh rugby,
We are at a critical stage and that's what is so exciting because if we get this right we will come up with something in world rugby that will be the envy of the world.
We've got to think differently. We cannot think we've just got to fix what's gone on before.
We've got to come up with something that's far more radical and is far more sustainable that will take our game forward."

I don't want to prejudge things. If, fueled by envious rage, Argentina, Samoa, Ireland etc. all establish obscure committees to have occasional lunches, I will applaud Roger and his pioneering management strategy.


Last edited by Casartelli on Thu 06 Dec 2012, 9:26 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Added some Roger quotes.)

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Post by Guest Thu 06 Dec 2012, 9:35 am

The creation of this new "Panel" just shows that the WRU really have lost their way as they attempt to ratify a structure that doesn't work for welsh rugby.

Centralised control only ever means a hammer to crack a nut.

Roberts leaving Cardiff shows financial mismanagement for a player to be leaving. Lydiate leaving reflects the Dragons status where they are unable to break into the higher financial terms. The WRU look at these two instances in the same light but they are very different and do reflect the paltry four team status of the so called national game.

There is an unhealthy focus on European success in the R12 and the fact that Ospreys or Leinster can top the R12 table using effectively a second team as their 'elite' players play more Tests than regional games.

Being old enough to remember the old club games against my club I will state my preference for that approach which some on here will immediately state is unaffordable and we are not going back - fair enough. However the fans are voting with their feet and now the players are too which I would humbly suggest means the structure is not working in providing an attractive sporting and financial environment for fans and players alike.

At times I find the strategic direction of the professional game more interesting than the endless RL phase game on the pitch....

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Post by Glas a du Thu 06 Dec 2012, 11:00 am

Casartelli wrote:"Advisory panel" makes it sound rather grand.

"Some blokes having a gossip once a month" is closer to the mark.

This is what the 'CEO' boasted earlier in the year;

"We are at a fundamental crossroads in the history of Welsh rugby,
We are at a critical stage and that's what is so exciting because if we get this right we will come up with something in world rugby that will be the envy of the world.
We've got to think differently. We cannot think we've just got to fix what's gone on before.
We've got to come up with something that's far more radical and is far more sustainable that will take our game forward."

I don't want to prejudge things. If, fueled by envious rage, Argentina, Samoa, Ireland etc. all establish obscure committees to have occasional lunches, I will applaud Roger and his pioneering management strategy.

Laugh

I admire your style.
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Post by Glas a du Thu 06 Dec 2012, 11:03 am

Recwatcher wrote:The creation of this new "Panel" just shows that the WRU really have lost their way as they attempt to ratify a structure that doesn't work for welsh rugby.

Centralised control only ever means a hammer to crack a nut.

Yes, but that's not what they are doing is it. They cant take central control as their bank will say no to taking on the Regions' debt. So you have this half way house.
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Post by SecretFly Thu 06 Dec 2012, 11:56 am

Think about better coaches at Regional level?...................?........................... huh?

Welsh rugby overcomplicates itself. The field is the issue. More wins from more sides. More muscular presence from Welsh sides in HEC and players suddenly have the desire to hang around for the parties. Plus, more winning means more demanding positions when sponsors come calling with offers and that means more money to bankroll players staying.

It's not about structures and sub-structures and sub-paragraphs of sub-agreements - it's about winning. Winning doesn't happen in the boardroom. Winning is the beginning - and that's already good/very good players being coached better.

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Post by Glas a du Thu 06 Dec 2012, 12:33 pm

Which is right of course as that is exactly what happened with the National team when they appointed Gatland and Edwards. OK it hasnt been all plain sailing and they have been extremely frustrating.

Then consider that Nigel Davies has shown what he can do with Gloucester and Lyn Jones with London Welsh. It is not only the identity of the coaches therefore, there is something else at play.
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