Why the draw for the World Cup is so far ahead?

I wish someone would explain me.
I understand that the organizers and teams need time to plan their activities, such as booking flights, hotels, etc.
But three years is not too much? Is not it enough with a year or two?
Does anyone know the real cause of this?

Argie fan wrote:I wish someone would explain me.

You and me both.

Nobody can offer a valid explanation,F.I.F.A. manage to host the soccer WC,a far bigger tournament with the draw made less than a year before.

It really makes the actual draw a bit irrelevant as nobody can tell how their team will be playing in 3 years time,group A might not seem like a group of death in 2015 while some of the other groups might look a lot tougher in 3 years.

It is the result of organisations being run by marketing people and not sports people.

Largely because of the planning logisitics involved for the host. NZ requested it first, as I understand it, in order to give them sufficient time to prepare, and to meet the stringent targets being set.

The England bid has set the bar even higher in revenue generation, and they want as much time as possible to plan accordingly to get the biggest hit.

The schedule for matches, host towns, stadia, etc will be made in Feb/Mar next year, and then the respective areas need to start planning accordingly. I don't know if any adjustments need to be made to any of the stadia being considered given that they're all relatively modern facilities.

But if they're going to do the local community integration bit again to host different teams, get communities involved in planning various events around these, prepare for large travelling fan numbers in particular locations, then 2 years will go by in no time at all.

You figure there will need to be some alignment between likely fan bases and large stadia in planning.

Outside of England team who are likely to travel around England to have some of their matches, and will fill their stadia, presumably the order is something like:

Wales and Scotland - top of the list in travelling fans within GB.

Ireland and France - easy access by boat and plane.

SA, Aus and Kiwi - large ex-pat communities
US - possibly in there as well.

Don't know about others.

Who goes where?

The list of stadia has not even finalised nor have teams been assigned to any region or city therefore, it cant be for logistical reasons.

I tend to agree with this assessment by Chris Foy, the journalist, in it's entirety. He wrote it a couple of days before the draw. I find the last two paragraphs a bit prophetic, well I hope it is from a welsh point of view anyway.

"This (making the draw 1026 days early) may not be a new arrangement but it is not an acceptable one either. It raises understandable concerns about the relevance of proceedings on Monday. There is no sporting reason for conducting this important bit of business at such an early juncture.

What it comes down to is the thorny issue of logistics. Organisers need the assistance of long-range advance notice about pool line-ups in order to prepare schedules in close negotiation with global TV networks. They need to know as much as possible about the movements of the major nations to ease the process of finalising venues, training centres and accommodation options.
It runs deeper than that. Those in charge of delivering a successful, profitable tournament require early warning about the fixture list to ensure they can start fine-tuning sponsorship arrangements, localised fan-zone plans and community-based projects.

Furthermore, in this particular case, English authorities are under huge pressure to shift millions of tickets, so the more time they have to activate promotional plans the better. If northern stadia are to be sold out, the powers-that-be from England Rugby 2015 need a long run-up, so to speak.

Yet, the knock-on effect is that the seedings which form the basis for the pool draw can become horribly outdated by the time of the tournament. It is instructive to note that in the last two World Cups, the finalists have come from the same pool - England and South Africa in 2007, New Zealand and France last year.

By the time of the 2011 event, Argentina had faded from their 2007 height, so their status as top seeds in England's pool was flawed. Next time, what's to say the Pumas or Wales, who could be among the third seeds on Monday, won't have soared to the upper reaches of the rankings?

If that were to happen, one supposedly superior nation will have drawn the short straw in being placed in a pool with them. That fate could befall the host nation, which in turn could render all the months and years of forward planning redundant."

There is the other issue that's raised it's head in that Premier League won't (can't) provide venues for dates until the football schedule has been sorted out, which won't happen until 2015. If the IRB needed the fixtures and locations by next spring (when the final stadium list is done) then they won't be able to use the football stadium without massive payouts (if at all).

What a c*ck up this could be.

It's because the money men call the shots,
Ticket and travel companies can now cash in well ahead of 2015.

The real fans will be a hand full in the stadiums due to the shocking prices that will come with the match day tickets, minimum of £2 a minute a person will pay to watch a game.

Then we look at all the tickets corporations will be in possession of, dished out to dumb big wigs there for the free champagne and finger food.

Worse thing that ever happened to rugby was turning pro.

viewtothegym wrote: The real fans will be a hand full in the stadiums due to the shocking prices that will come with the match day tickets, minimum of £2 a minute a person will pay to watch a game.
Then we look at all the tickets corporations will be in possession of, dished out to dumb big wigs there for the free champagne and finger food.

I think the corporates are a nessecary evil - every corporate sitting with a £500 ticket should reduce the amount needed to be spend by a normal fan. Also unless the RFU are completely mad they'll keep the price of the group games involving the minnows as low as possible to get crowds there as they won't get the corporates at those.

A clubmate of mine who moves in such refined circles (freebies to the sevens in Hong Kong, Twickenham games, Wembley and so on) said that inviting your corporate clients to say Samoa v Fiji would be considered a bit of an insult (unless you had clients from these countries), if the client found out that you were inviting other clients to say England V Australia, he thinks the corporates will be more likely to use any tickets for these games as staff treats or competition prizes.

Also I wonder if they will sell tickets as a bundles - tickets for say Ireland also include tickets for the other group games.

Does seem rather silly.

Who knows what the rankings will be in two years time?

HammerofThunor wrote:There is the other issue that's raised it's head in that Premier League won't (can't) provide venues for dates until the football schedule has been sorted out, which won't happen until 2015. If the IRB needed the fixtures and locations by next spring (when the final stadium list is done) then they won't be able to use the football stadium without massive payouts (if at all).

Except said stadiums garunteed they would be available when they put themsleves forward to be used. So the payout could be soccerball, to rugby, to soccerball.

Id also like to point out that the Walkers crisp bowl FAKing Power Stadium isnt a Premiership stadium.

I hate the word Logistics - but that's what it comes down to. The party organisers need time to organise. They'll need to know which teams and fans will be where, and at what time, and through which airports, and what security is needed and where best to have events and sponsors promoted etc, etc. It's a complex world, a risky one (in a security sense) and organisers need to have the operation run smoothly to gain maximum positive exposure for the sport and for the organisers themselves.

I will put a fiver on NZ being ranked number 1 and taking back to back RWCs so it's all irrelevant anyway. It's like shuffling the deckchairs around on the Titanic. NZ won in 87 and the score in 2011 was 8-7. 8 + 7 = 15 as does 2 + 0 + 11 + 2 (RWCs) so it's going to be another France NZ final and it's already written in stone as well as the cup. Joubert to ref the final and our 12th best flyhalf is already practising his goal kicks to score the winning points. The sooner you resign yourselves to this fate the sooner you can dismiss such needless talk about world rankings and seedings so far ahead of the tournament.

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:I will put a fiver on NZ being ranked number 1 and taking back to back RWCs so it's all irrelevant anyway. It's like shuffling the deckchairs around on the Titanic. NZ won in 87 and the score in 2011 was 8-7. 8 + 7 = 15 as does 2 + 0 + 11 + 2 (RWCs) so it's going to be another France NZ final and it's already written in stone as well as the cup. Joubert to ref the final and our 12th best flyhalf is already practising his goal kicks to score the winning points. The sooner you resign yourselves to this fate the sooner you can dismiss such needless talk about world rankings and seedings so far ahead of the tournament.

Well I can't argue with maths so I better get down the bookies

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:I will put a fiver on NZ being ranked number 1 and taking back to back RWCs so it's all irrelevant anyway. It's like shuffling the deckchairs around on the Titanic. NZ won in 87 and the score in 2011 was 8-7. 8 + 7 = 15 as does 2 + 0 + 11 + 2 (RWCs) so it's going to be another France NZ final and it's already written in stone as well as the cup. Joubert to ref the final and our 12th best flyhalf is already practising his goal kicks to score the winning points. The sooner you resign yourselves to this fate the sooner you can dismiss such needless talk about world rankings and seedings so far ahead of the tournament.

Well at least you're honest. Spoken like a true believer.

How come other NZ fans don't say this instead of the usual mumbo-jumbo and flannel they write about 'one game at a time', oh we never underestimate any opponent, etc, etc.

It'd make it so much simpler for the rest of us.

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:I will put a fiver on NZ being ranked number 1 and taking back to back RWCs so it's all irrelevant anyway. It's like shuffling the deckchairs around on the Titanic. NZ won in 87 and the score in 2011 was 8-7. 8 + 7 = 15 as does 2 + 0 + 11 + 2 (RWCs) so it's going to be another France NZ final and it's already written in stone as well as the cup. Joubert to ref the final and our 12th best flyhalf is already practising his goal kicks to score the winning points. The sooner you resign yourselves to this fate the sooner you can dismiss such needless talk about world rankings and seedings so far ahead of the tournament.

Ha ha, like it. We are all just wanting to avoid the Kiwis in the knock out stage for the highest trophy we could ever hope to receive which is the coveted runner up medal.

A Twickenham final holds no fear for the Kiwis, that was clearly displayed two weeks ago when they displayed a master class of controlling the game and keeping the scoreboard ticking over.

We sure know how to keep that scoreboard tick over. Fall off tackles and let a big centre wreak havoc.

No autumn tour in a World Cup year so thank goodness we still have two tests at Twickenham to come before 2015 to put the fear of God back into you!

I think you'll find Pot Hale Taylorman is our best exponent of calling the game as he sees it and too bad if that offends people. Generally if we do say we're going to win we invariably get the backlash saying NZ fans are so arrogant and if we do say we could lose then we're called disingenuous so it's a no-win situation sometimes.

So if I can't win, then I'll go out on a limb and say we can win it. If some more teams could beat us along the way and get the critics to write us off then that'd be very much appreciated.

I'd much prefer NZ fans were just honest - and say what they believe. Being wrong is what the rest of us deal with all the time - we're either wrong in saying we're not going to lose or wrong in saying we're gonna win.

I'd much prefer robust truth, to go with the robust team that ABs are, rather than the rather unconvincing comments about how "things aren't going well and we might be just caught out by Italy this time, they're an improving side".

Plus, it'd be also sweeter actually doing the impossible and winning against a side with confident and bullish fans. It's always sweeter when the opposition say you don't have a chance

Ok just for you Fly but make sure you sit down for this...

Ireland will never beat the All Blacks.

Whoo Hoo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That's the spirit. I can get my teeth into that.

Its cheaper/more cost effective to organise and book in advance...

the RFU and IRB although turn a decent profit are not money printing machines like FIFA..

But all the same I dont like it done so far in advance

Thought you'd like that Fly. Looking forward to the likely quarter final between Ireland and NZ. I expect you'll have well and truly taken the cap off that spirit and drunk most of it neat by the time the kick off comes around.

Can't wait for these tickets to go on sale. Saw some games in 87 and 99 so looking forward to being back 'live' in 2015. This is another home World Cup for me but a lot closer than last year for me to travel.

Gonna get me a ticket for sure to 2015!!

Hope i can get some england tickets

It takes 3 years to develop and field test a new virus to give the NZ team an upset tummy

Seriously, there is no need for it to be this far ahead. No other tournement needs 3 years to sort out the statium and hotels. It is so that someone, somewhere will be able to cream off additional profits and take the fans for an even bigger ride than normal.

Also, it was designed to be drawn just before Scotland got into the 4th teir of world rubgy and have to qualify by taking on 7 sheep, 2 highland cows, 3 sheep dogs and 3 artic swallows in a playoff game

Olympics organising begins bloody 20 years before the first planes land with athletes on them! Come on...I've seen long term planning long long before Rugby world cups.

SecretFly wrote:Olympics organising begins bloody 20 years before the first planes land with athletes on them! Come on...I've seen long term planning long long before Rugby world cups.

This is not building the world olympic park - even that only took 7 years

Riskysports wrote:

SecretFly wrote:Olympics organising begins bloody 20 years before the first planes land with athletes on them! Come on...I've seen long term planning long long before Rugby world cups.

This is not building the world olympic park - even that only took 7 years

And the competitors only found out 2 months before if they were selected

Still don`t think nearly 3 years is required for corporate bookings or whatever for RWC 2015.You want people to say what they think not the one game at a time bit.
So here goes who you get in your Group doesn`t matter you have to win THEM ALL to win a RWC.That is the status quo so far Home teams have featured in 5 of 7 finals to date and won 3.
Englands group ANY of the top 3 could go thru,it maybe down to bonuspoints or trie counts or even points difference.
I expect the AllBlacks to be IRB Number 1 for the next 3 years,I hope they win the next 3, 4 Ns titles and not sacrifice one in a RWC year.You play one Tournament at a Time,that I never hear an AB Coach dismiss a 3/4Ns title AGAIN.By saying as was so shamefully said in 2011 3Ns oh we`ve got plenty of them !!.
I expect England to reach at least the Semi-Final stage,Ditto the All Blacks. don`t expect the AB `s to win 2019 or indeed ANY side to do back to back ones.
NOR Frankly do I care, the 4Ns and 6Ns are far harder to win and RWCs are for the train spotters.
Teams who win them then have a lot of losses afterwards prove nothing and especially in the 6Ns.
As Wales have proven 3 times since 2003 they can still beat anyone in Europe more or less consistently.
The Beauty of the 6Ns is that Italy apart on any given day any of the other 5 can beat each other.That Italy are improving fast.
Also that what only a couple of seasons ago teams like Tonga,Argentina and Samoa are a real threat in a RWC.

After seeing it all unravel here over the last 3 years I can fully understand the time required to hold this tournament. I can bet that once the draw was done a large number of activities unable to be started were kicked in to overdrive after the draw. Airfares and other travel, Accommodation, match venues, training venues, recruitment of the hundreds of workers, volunteers, services etc all over the UK will all have been kicked off with the draw.

The next logical point to do the draw to ensure fairness would be the same time next year and losing a year for the sake of trying to reflect the seedings a little closer to the tournament doesnt have as many advantages as what can be done in that same 12 months in terms of getting it to run smoothly.

All the sides knew the cutoff date well in advance so had ample opportunity to better their positons.