Give a Man a Fish

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Today Leinster Rugby announced the signing of Connacht second row Mike McCarthy who will join the current Heineken Cup champions on a three year deal.

31 year old McCarthy, who won man of the match in Ireland’s narrow defeat against South Africa this Autumn represent the latest in a string of second row signings by the boys in blue.

Following the move of Nathan Hines to Clermont Auvergne in 2011, Leinster have signed short term option after short term option. We have seen the likes of Brad Thorn, Damien Browne, Steven Sykes, Quinn Roux and now Mike McCarthy.

Leinster have produced a stunning array of talented internationals in recent years particularly in the backrow positions. However we have seen the consequences of allowing such a transfer policy within the Irish provinces.

The exact same thing was done at tight head prop for Leinster. It made perfect sense; Munster had John Hayes doing the business for Ireland. Tony Buckley was the great white hope for the future and what harm in them continuing to sign foreign tight heads.

Leinster bounced from Will Green to Ollie le Roux to Stan Wright to Nathan White before finally signing the Irish qualified Mike Ross for the 2010 season. Their efforts to develop the once promising Jamie Hagan has been laughable and another tight head prop has been signed in Michael Bent.

“Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime”. Ultimately Irish rugby faced (and possibly still is facing) a well documented tighthead prop crisis.

Leinster’s attitude to player development and transfer strategies played a part. We all hope the same thing does not happen with second rows. Munster may have three Irish international second rows and Ulster have two. However with O’Connell and O’Callaghan into their mid 30s, Leinster need to start playing their part.

red_stag wrote:Leinster bounced from Will Green to Ollie le Roux to Stan Wright to Nathan White before finally signing the Irish qualified Mike Ross for the 2010 season. Their efforts to develop the once promising Jamie Hagan has been laughable and another tight head prop has been signed in Michael Bent.

Up until last week Hagan was the no2 tight head at the three time Heineken cup champions. He got one start in the Heineken last year and did pretty well despite coming off at halftime. I think he got a few minutes in the earlier HC games this year but not enough to make an impression. He has shown up well in the Rabbo this year and his all round game and particularly fitness is much improved from when he came from Connacht.
Enter Michael Bent. Leinster would hae been mad to let the opportunity to sign him go. It may well be that Hagan has to moe on to get regular gametime at a higher level but to call his development laughable is just childish.
We have four professional clubs with three international class tight heads. Ross and Bent (so far so good) at Leinster and Fitzpatrick at Ulster. Yes Leinster brought in Ross but Munster didn't want him. The next best option in my opinion is Hagan, ahead of Archer at Munster and Loughney at Connacht (who is a decent LH but no TH).
You're lauding Munster sending young props out on loan for 3 months. Leinster allowd Hagan and Stuart Maguire to go to Connacht on permanent deals.

red_stag wrote:ASLS, I believe they are doing it badly. I believe there are too many gaps being plugged for me to beleive they are doing a good job of coaching young players into quality professionals.

There will always be those who fall through the cracks but at some stage its a a pattern not a coincidence.

I have to say I think your expectations are a bit ridiculous.

To criticise Leinster for the players you have named is one thing but then you seem to be suggesting that players Sexton,Luke Fitz,SoB,Healy,McLoughlin,O'Malley,Madigan and Dave Kearney fell through the cracks seems very unfair.

“Give a man a fish, you have fed him for today. Teach a man to fish, and he will sit in the boat and drink beer all day"

Did someone say sit and drink beer all day???

I'm in!

red_stag wrote:Ozzy,

Honest answer is I don't know. I know that for the top guys on central contracts they answer direct to IRFU and same with "project players" I believe they are contracted to IRFU.

The big rumour Im hearing is that the IRFU are keen for Mike Ross to replace BJ Botha at Munster on a central contract.

That would be a great idea considering Munster don't have that many good TH's and there good one is NIE. Leinster have Bent now and still have Hagan, Furlong and Moore coming up too.

I think that would be a great move for Irish Rugby

“Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime”.

Or the Welsh version:

Give the man a fish and he'll get a taste for it, teach him how to fish and he'll steal a rod.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:Soon in the backs we should see Adam Byrne, Harrison Brewer(son of former all black Mike Brewer. There is a lot of hype around this guy already and he's only 17. He's being built as the next big thing) and Tom Daly in the academy.

All three are being hyped up and they are still in their teens. So it shouldn't be too long until we start producing the backs again.

Agreed. Remember the hype around Conway and Macken though when they were 17. Absolutely not writing either of them off in any way, but they have had a dip from their "Legends in the making" schools form.

It can be hard to tell sometimes with underage rugby

I've seen a real improvement in Macken this year. He looks more willing to take on players. He has the pace, power and step to be a really good player. He just needs to sort out his tackling. I don't think he's far off from being a top player.

+1
Has looked really dangerous with ball in hand and fades on the outside really well. I like him a lot until defending is thrown in to the mix

I think Leinster have one of the best academies in europe for developing young players personally. Look at Healy as a prime example, he is one of the best looseheads in the world and is still very young.

I agree that some guys have been "blocked" as it were. Maybe Conway would get more time if Isa wasn't there (Conway has got a lot of time anyway), maybe McGrath would get more time if VDM wasn't there, maybe Toner would get more time if Thorn/Hines weren't there.

Our Toner, mcGrath and Conway good enough for HCup rugby? If you are thinking of pool games against weak opposition then yes, if you are thinking of semi finals against Clermont then no.

I do think it is unfortunate that some guys have been "blocked" by older players: McFadden could be playing 12 for Ireland now if he had got ahead of Darcy. EOM could be playing for Ireland in the 6N if he had been fit over the last few months, Ruddock may have got better if McLaughlin/SOB weren't there.

One thing I would say about Leinster bringing in players who have learned their trade elsewhere: we are probably the best team in the world at refining guys.

Look at Ross in his first season, fat, unfit, unable to play "rugby" and now he is much fitter and a better footballer. Boss was a good scrumhalf without being anything more than good but Leinster have improved his passing game and applied tactics that suit his strengths to develop him further.

I firmly believe that if Ross had gone back to munster he would not have been anywhere near as good as he is now.

The provinces are as lacking in confidence in lower levels and imagination as the Regions. It's stupid that the 'A' sides compete in the B & I Cup.

Glas a du wrote:The provinces are as lacking in confidence in lower levels and imagination as the Regions. It's stupid that the 'A' sides compete in the B & I Cup.

I don't understand what you mean Glas.

Do you mean that the Ravens et al are too good for the B&I?

Yes and what does it say to your club sides "don't bother"?