Jonny Sexton - Lions 10 certainty

First topic message reminder :

Ok at this point its early days and the 6 nations is yet to come but in the last few months every article Ive read, every former or current player "my lions team" selection have him as a nailed on test starter. Whereas no other player seems to be making evey list.

Is he really the best option right now?

Wilkos stock is certainly rising but surely his lack of International game time wont help.
Priestland seems to have lost his mojo.
Farrell is good but maybe a little inexperienced?
Hodgson just dosent make it happen enough.
Cips plays for Sale and is mad as a brush.
Biggar doesnt get a look in with Wales often enough.
Too soon for Burns.
Flood is a viable option but possibly not quite as good.
O'Gara way past it.
No standout Scot option. Laidlaw is currently playing 9?!?

GunsGerms wrote:Id love if OGara wasnt picked for the 6n too.

I'd love if he wasn't picked this weekend against Edinburgh.

I did the 606V2 Podcast thing last night and one of points I made was the amount of power ROG has especially in Munster.

The Munster CEO asked his advice on which coach to hire. There isn't a snowballs chance in hell that he will ever be dropped by Munster for the next season and a half. For Ireland he is an automatic pick. Its baffling.

Its funny from time to time but by and large its just amazing one player can have such sway.

Munsters strenght has always been in that it values the strenght of the team over one player. We were so good because it didnt matter which player pulled on the red shirt. Now O'Gara is bigger than the team it seems.

The point I was making was that Gatland may have a preconceived plan about how to beat Australia, but if it's the same plan that he uses when Wales play them, then it's been proved to be ineffective.

Mickado wrote:The point I was making was that Gatland may have a preconceived plan about how to beat Australia, but if it's the same plan that he uses when Wales play them, then it's been proved to be ineffective.

Though wasn't Rob Howley the coach for most of those games.

Gatland broke his ankles and didn't go with them in the Summer when they played 3 games against Australia. He also took charge of the team during the November Internationals.

It was still Gatland's gameplan, though.

He's beaten them once during his tenure with Wales, but it was in 2008. They've lost 8.

But Howley is not strong in the force and cannot use Gatland mind tricks.

To me the gameplan is easy. Gatland must pick a pack with a strong set piece. Great scrum, even better lineout and choose a flyhalf who can plug for territory and kick the goals when the opportunities come. Rush defence and shut down the threat in 9 and 10 and don't let them run. Seek an advantage in the midlfield as this is where the Lions can gain an edge because Deans has a knack of shifting AAC everywhere else on the pitch other than where he should be: OC.

If you have a backrow with players like SOB or Ferris who are great stealers and also players like Healy who can be used as an extra loosie, you can gain an edge or at least parity in the breakdown. You must cut down their space in the backline and provide enough thrust in your own backline to break their line and put doubt into their minds. That responsibility lies chiefly with the flyhalf and he must be able to mix it up and not give ball away needlessly. Plugging the corners is fine but no deep kicks with poor chasing. The Aussies will lap that up. The Lions must create pressure through territory and possession. They don't need to run in tries but they do need to score regularly when the opportunities present themselves. Goalkicking, therefore, is key.

red_stag wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:Id love if OGara wasnt picked for the 6n too.

I'd love if he wasn't picked this weekend against Edinburgh.

I did the 606V2 Podcast thing last night and one of points I made was the amount of power ROG has especially in Munster.

The Munster CEO asked his advice on which coach to hire. There isn't a snowballs chance in hell that he will ever be dropped by Munster for the next season and a half. For Ireland he is an automatic pick. Its baffling.

Its funny from time to time but by and large its just amazing one player can have such sway.

Munsters strenght has always been in that it values the strenght of the team over one player. We were so good because it didnt matter which player pulled on the red shirt. Now O'Gara is bigger than the team it seems.

A few players in Leinster were consulted over Schmidt too I think. O'Gara obviously has incredible intrapersonal skills. He must be very pursuasive and very convincing type of character. Did you read Quinlans piece in the Irish Times. Very interesting I must say re EO'S and his dynamic with the players. Was delighted when the times signed up Quinlan and he hasnt disapointed. He isnt a journalist but really does give great insight into what it was like playing for Ireland.

Oh F#*K SAKE I just remembered Howley is coming on the Lions Tour as coach!! AAAGGGGGGGHHHHH that has actually really annoyed me!

kiakahaaotearoa if that's the case then the best choices would be Sexton,Farrell and Wilkinson for that approach.

Let's be honest the most important thing is how the Lion pack performs. If they set up a decent platform for either Sexton,Farrell or whoever starts the Lions should win.

Whoever is fly half will struggle if the pack loses their battle.


Farrell Sr should help instill a good kick chase strategy.

Forget about Wilkinson. Gatland will only be looking at test players and Farell and Sexton are the frontrunners at the moment. The pack is indeed the key but it won't be enough to gain an advantage up front and in the set piece and think the game's won. You have to do something useful with the ball you get and you need to be playing in the right part of the field. That's where the flyhalf comes to the fore. The Wallabies are masters of living off scraps. They know how to tick the scoreboard over. That's something the Lions must do. They must hold onto possession and kick any points that come from infringements. You can only apply real pressure if you put points on the board at regular intervals. It sounds over-simplistic to say that but too often in test rugby teams fail to do it.

All games are won up front. But all games are decided by how in the backs and by the goalkicker. If Gatland chooses the wrong flyhalf for the wrong game plan, it won't matter how much ball the forwards win.

Besides, my point about space and time was more about the service from the halfback. Phillips is great at taking on the line and adding some thrust around the fringes but his service is ponderously slow, always looking to skip out the flyhalf for Jamie Roberts. The Wallabies will have seen that all too often. What they need is someone new with a bit more spark about him clearing away the ball and a gameplan that isn't looking to penetrate the backline from inside centre but more with Tuilagi at OC which requires a different set of tactics. A flyhalf who can stand flat and run at the line sending looking to set people around him into space through a pass or a kick is what will break the Wallaby backline. If they stand deep and look to bully their way through the Wallaby backline, it will be all too easy for the Wallabies.

red_stag wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:Id love if OGara wasnt picked for the 6n too.

I'd love if he wasn't picked this weekend against Edinburgh.

I did the 606V2 Podcast thing last night and one of points I made was the amount of power ROG has especially in Munster.

The Munster CEO asked his advice on which coach to hire. There isn't a snowballs chance in hell that he will ever be dropped by Munster for the next season and a half. For Ireland he is an automatic pick. Its baffling.

Its funny from time to time but by and large its just amazing one player can have such sway.

Munsters strenght has always been in that it values the strenght of the team over one player. We were so good because it didnt matter which player pulled on the red shirt. Now O'Gara is bigger than the team it seems.

I think you are making a bit of a big deal about the Munster CEO asking his advice - the Munster CEO would have talked to all the senior players about the coach.

The Leinster players got together and said they wanted a technical coach and it was Isa Nacewa who recommended Joe Schmidt (as he had coached him at the Blues). Leo Cullen & Sexton actually interviewed Schmidt! (I suppose that is why neither are dropped ).

Edit: Your last point about Munster's team ethos is illogical bearing in mind that for 14-15 years O'Gara has backboned that team and its only now his egotistical side has taken over. (By the way, POC was also asked for his opinion). Woody was behind Gatland getting sacked & Eddie O'Sullivan appointed as Ireland coach - do you think that made Woody less of a team player?

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:Forget about Wilkinson. Gatland will only be looking at test players and Farell and Sexton are the frontrunners at the moment. The pack is indeed the key but it won't be enough to gain an advantage up front and in the set piece and think the game's won. You have to do something useful with the ball you get and you need to be playing in the right part of the field. That's where the flyhalf comes to the fore. The Wallabies are masters of living off scraps. They know how to tick the scoreboard over. That's something the Lions must do. They must hold onto possession and kick any points that come from infringements. You can only apply real pressure if you put points on the board at regular intervals. It sounds over-simplistic to say that but too often in test rugby teams fail to do it.

All games are won up front. But all games are decided by how in the backs and by the goalkicker. If Gatland chooses the wrong flyhalf for the wrong game plan, it won't matter how much ball the forwards win.

Besides, my point about space and time was more about the service from the halfback. Phillips is great at taking on the line and adding some thrust around the fringes but his service is ponderously slow, always looking to skip out the flyhalf for Jamie Roberts. The Wallabies will have seen that all too often. What they need is someone new with a bit more spark about him clearing away the ball and a gameplan that isn't looking to penetrate the backline from inside centre but more with Tuilagi at OC which requires a different set of tactics. A flyhalf who can stand flat and run at the line sending looking to set people around him into space through a pass or a kick is what will break the Wallaby backline. If they stand deep and look to bully their way through the Wallaby backline, it will be all too easy for the Wallabies.

I agree about Tuilagi. He was incredible vs NZ but surely replicating that kind of performance will be difficult. Still if the Aussies focus on him it should create opportunities for others.

Sin,

Cullen and Sexton aren't dropped by Schmidt because they are the best in their position so I dont get the wink there.

So do you also agree ROG isn't deserving of his place with Munster and his bench spot with Ireland???

the-goon wrote:Sin,

Cullen and Sexton aren't dropped by Schmidt because they are the best in their position so I dont get the wink there.

So do you also agree ROG isn't deserving of his place with Munster and his bench spot with Ireland???

Cullen is showing his age bigtime. You'd think Schmidt would have recruited a replacement rather than bringing in players like Thorn to help him out.

As for Sexton - doesn't Madigan deserve a chance?

I think the bench spot for Ireland is a bit over-rated. Sexton doesn't take kindly to being substituted so it is of no benefit to any young player to sit on the pine for 5 internationals to get about 20 minutes gametime.

Keatley hasn't done enough in Munster to displace O'Gara. That is the bottom line.

Sin é wrote:

the-goon wrote:Sin,

Cullen and Sexton aren't dropped by Schmidt because they are the best in their position so I dont get the wink there.

So do you also agree ROG isn't deserving of his place with Munster and his bench spot with Ireland???

Cullen is showing his age bigtime. You'd think Schmidt would have recruited a replacement rather than bringing in players like Thorn to help him out.

As for Sexton - doesn't Madigan deserve a chance?I think the bench spot for Ireland is a bit over-rated. Sexton doesn't take kindly to being substituted so it is of no benefit to any young player to sit on the pine for 5 internationals to get about 20 minutes gametime.

Keatley hasn't done enough in Munster to displace O'Gara. That is the bottom line.

2012-2013 season

Madigan - Played 17 (15 starts)
Sexton - Played 10

Mickado wrote:

Sin é wrote:

the-goon wrote:Sin,

Cullen and Sexton aren't dropped by Schmidt because they are the best in their position so I dont get the wink there.

So do you also agree ROG isn't deserving of his place with Munster and his bench spot with Ireland???

Cullen is showing his age bigtime. You'd think Schmidt would have recruited a replacement rather than bringing in players like Thorn to help him out.

As for Sexton - doesn't Madigan deserve a chance?I think the bench spot for Ireland is a bit over-rated. Sexton doesn't take kindly to being substituted so it is of no benefit to any young player to sit on the pine for 5 internationals to get about 20 minutes gametime.

Keatley hasn't done enough in Munster to displace O'Gara. That is the bottom line.

2012-2013 season

Madigan - Played 17 (15 starts)
Sexton - Played 10

Those 17 were not at outhalf. And none in the big games. (Keatley has started more games than ROG as well - at 10).

Sin é wrote:Edit: Your last point about Munster's team ethos is illogical bearing in mind that for 14-15 years O'Gara has backboned that team and its only now his egotistical side has taken over.

Wow ease up on the ROG bashing Sin! ... ....

Poor old Sexton. A thread gets written about him being a dead Lions cert and he still can't avoid having this gobshoite O'Gara, who has no chance of being in the Lions tour , becoming the centre of attention. Shame because O'Gara has his own proud legacy. It's just that his time in the sun has come. Now he's hanging around like a persistent summer shower dampening people's spirits and causing a few eternal optimists to be convinced of seeing rays of sunshine popping out from the clouds and we aren't quite done with this day yet. Well I hate to break it to you but I'm tired, I'm cold, I'm peed off and I want to go home.

the ireland out half pecking order
sexton, jackson, rog, keatley, madigan. jackson is a superior all round player but still doubts about his goal kicking. madigan has simply not played enough serious rugby at 10 to be in the reckoning. he has the potential to be an excellent attacking 10 but it will not be fulfilled if he gets no HC gametime there.

the Lions out half pecking order
sexton,farrell,burns,biggar,

a very interesting few months rugby coming up. Looking forward to it

Not sure Burns would be picked ahead of Toby Flood. He has a real chance of making the tour. Ban or no ban.