Zebre not doing to bad really. Could this week be their first win.

So when we look at Zebre and see they have no wins. They have 6 LBP from 13 games in the league so just under half their games have been lost by seven or less. they came close against a few of the big teams and if it wasn't for a the last five mins of the game they would be sitting on 12-15 pts and be right up there with Dragons.

This week they face the team that gave Aroini their first win. They are a strong team playing a tean that are the best worse travels of any team in Europe. Zebre will turn this into a dog fight and I think that it could be nevre for the french till the end.

I also think that Zebre will pick up one or two wins before the season is over.

So yes they are still to win a game but they have been close in nearly half their games.

Newport Gwent Dragons 37 - 6 Zebre Rodney Parade 4,540 poor result

Zebre 17 - 30 Connacht Rugby Stadio XXV Aprile 2,025 poor result, ok attendance

Edinburgh Rugby 41 - 10 Zebre Murrayfield 3,541 poor result

Glasgow Warriors 22 - 19 Zebre Scotstoun 3,313 Really good result, could have won

Zebre 16 - 34 Ospreys Stadio XXV Aprile 2,500 ok result, ok attendance

Munster Rugby 29 - 3 Zebre Thomond Park Stadium 14,738 poor result, but not bad compared to others

Scarlets 22 - 13 Zebre Parc y Scarlets 5,757 good result, esp as it was the last few minutes and the bounce of a ball that lost tem the game and then the bonus point

Zebre 25 - 27 Ulster Rugby Stadio XXV Aprile 2,550 great result, should have won, ok attendance

Zebre 7 - 14 Cardiff Blues Stadio XXV Aprile 700 ok result, poor attendance


Leinster Rugby 37 - 7 Zebre Royal Dublin Society 15,894 poor result, but not bad compared to others

Zebre 3 - 10 Benetton Treviso Stadio XXV Aprile 3,000 A bit disappointing result, ok attendance

Benetton Treviso 26 - 18 Zebre Stadio di Monigo 5,000 A bit disappointing result, ok attendance

Ospreys 16 - 15 Zebre Liberty Stadium 7,891 great result, should have won possilbly
[b]

I certainly hope so, unfortunately they don't have a fanbase yet so they don't really benefit of the home advantage.

Hard to believe their only win was in a friendly against Saints. Also, think their 1st loss to the Dragons really hampered their confidence.

They shouldve beaten the Scarlets away, Ulster at home and Ospreys away. Lack of experience was why they lost. They seem to be progressing well. I wish Canale would go back to Italy instead of playing in the pro D2.

"they would be sitting on 12-15 pts and be right up there with Dragons."



Unless that was tongue in cheek.

And no disrespect to the Dragons, who seem to have a hard enough time of it.

Dragons have been doing this since the start of professionalism. Zebre have been doing this since the start of this season! If they were anything other than rock bottom it would be a result.

The way i worked out 12-15 points as pointed out they should have won two-three games so

if they had won 3 games it would be 4pts x 3wins plus 3lbp (6-3) = 15pts
if they had won 2 games it would be 4pts x 2wins plus 4lbp (6-2) = 12pts

So no not tongue in check.

I did not say they were as good as Dargons but that they would be up there with the dargons as the dargons are on 14pts.

To be fair to Zebre they get slagged off as one of the worst teams having zero wins, but Sale only have 2 wins and Mont de Marsan only have one win in Top 14,

In comparision the worst team in the Pro 12 is doing about the same as the worst teams in Aviva and Top 14.

Zebre are getting better each game, and next season, I think it will be a real battle between them and Dragons to not finish bottom of the table. One that I see Zebre winning.

Kingshu wrote:To be fair to Zebre they get slagged off as one of the worst teams having zero wins, but Sale only have 2 wins and Mont de Marsan only have one win in Top 14,

In comparision the worst team in the Pro 12 is doing about the same as the worst teams in Aviva and Top 14.

Zebre are getting better each game, and next season, I think it will be a real battle between them and Dragons to not finish bottom of the table. One that I see Zebre winning.

I agree Kingshu. I thought they weren't doing amazing but then I looked and saw in the league they had got a lbp off nearly half their games.

Sale 2 wins plus 3 lbp from 13
Irish 3 wins plus 4 lbp from 13

Mont de Marsan 1 win 4lbp from 15
Bordeaux-Begles 3 wins 6bp from 15

Dragons 3 wins 2bp from 13

If Zebre had the two wins they would be like any other team. Also it appears that they have been close in six games where as sale is 5, Mont is 5 and Dragons 5, but they have got wins.

Before I do start, I wouldn't be surprised if Zebre beat us in Feb.

However, Do people mentioning the Dragons in this think that Zebre are the only ones down the bottom who have been unlucky with results? We've had two games with the Blues, we could/should've won for a start.

To say that Dragons have been "doing this since the start of professionalism" is a massive over exaggeration too. I also love the prediction that Dragons will be bottom of the league next season, when there's been no squad changes yet and such like.

Risca Rev wrote:Before I do start, I wouldn't be surprised if Zebre beat us in Feb.

However, Do people mentioning the Dragons in this think that Zebre are the only ones down the bottom who have been unlucky with results? We've had two games with the Blues, we could/should've won for a start.

To say that Dragons have been "doing this since the start of professionalism" is a massive over exaggeration too. I also love the prediction that Dragons will be bottom of the league next season, when there's been no squad changes yet and such like.

Rava don't take me the wrong way, dargon have had some poor luck esp against the blues. Also injury to some key players would have ye and the blues all around the same. It is just that Zebre even with no wins have come close a few times as shown by their LBP of 6. If they had one win people wouldn't be so hard on them esp from outside the league.

They are definately doing better then Aronini ever did in their first year, even if they don't have a win yet.
Some attendances have been poor eg against the blues and aginst Treviso (as its a local match) but as long as they put on 250people per year we will happy.

Risca Rev no disrespect to Dragons as I like the team, the reason I said that I think Zebre wil finish above them next year (and I think it will be close) is that Dragons seam to currently be going backwards, they are losing some of thier best players and not replacing them with players of the same quality.

next season they will lose Dan Lydiate and prob Toby Faletau, and they don't have the budget to replace them,

Zebre will prob hang onto Mauro Bergamasco and Daniel Halangahu and will likley strengthen thier squad in the summer. Zebre seam to have the better non national qualified players as well.

I think that Dragons are struggling to stand still at present and would even say without a mircle in the summer are in decline, Zebre are a team on the up, and next year I'm predicting they will overtake Dragons, which I don't think is that outrageous.

Kingshu wrote:Risca Rev no disrespect to Dragons as I like the team, the reason I said that I think Zebre wil finish above them next year (and I think it will be close) is that Dragons seam to currently be going backwards, they are losing some of thier best players and not replacing them with players of the same quality.

next season they will lose Dan Lydiate and prob Toby Faletau, and they don't have the budget to replace them,

Zebre will prob hang onto Mauro Bergamasco and Daniel Halangahu and will likley strengthen thier squad in the summer. Zebre seam to have the better non national qualified players as well.

I think that Dragons are struggling to stand still at present and would even say without a mircle in the summer are in decline, Zebre are a team on the up, and next year I'm predicting they will overtake Dragons, which I don't think is that outrageous.

I think it could be closer but I think Zebre will need a second year at the bottom before they challange Dragons. I do wonder if Blues will keep falling or if they have stopped the rot. Edinburgh who knows

What kind of sides are teams putting out against Zebre?

They could have beaten us earlier in the season, but it was the weakest Glasgow side I have seen in a while, all things considered.

Kingshu wrote:Risca Rev no disrespect to Dragons as I like the team, the reason I said that I think Zebre wil finish above them next year (and I think it will be close) is that Dragons seam to currently be going backwards, they are losing some of thier best players and not replacing them with players of the same quality.

next season they will lose Dan Lydiate and prob Toby Faletau, and they don't have the budget to replace them,

Zebre will prob hang onto Mauro Bergamasco and Daniel Halangahu and will likley strengthen thier squad in the summer. Zebre seam to have the better non national qualified players as well.

I think that Dragons are struggling to stand still at present and would even say without a mircle in the summer are in decline, Zebre are a team on the up, and next year I'm predicting they will overtake Dragons, which I don't think is that outrageous.

How do you know their budget? Are you Tony Brown or Martyn Hazell? How do you know the budget? We are likely to strengthen our squad too and have already been promised an increased budget. Plus, we aren't likely to lose Faletau next season, but even if we do how often do we have him in our squad?

The amount of rubbish spouted on here about the Dragons is untrue. They seldom get televised, so how people can gauge a true opinion on how they're meant to be in decline is beyond me.

These predictions before next season are a load of nonsense.

you still have to rotate against teams. yes it was a weak Glasgow team but the still expected to get 5pts from it not 4pts with a nail bitting finish. That point would have them two pts clear of third not one

Risca Rev your making it seam I have something again Dragons, I don't.

But look at the players last year

In
Daniel Evans from Scarlets
Ian Nimmo from Cornish Pirates
Ieuan Jones Academy
Tom Prydie from Ospreys
Tim Ryan from Cavalieri Prato
Hywel Stoddart from Newport RFC
Josh Tyler from UWIC RFC
Nic Cudd from Llanelli RFC
Owen Evans from Llandovery RFC
Liam Davies from Scarlets

Out
Aled Brew to Biarritz
Rhys Buckley to Doncaster
Royce Cadman to Doncaster
Luke Charteris to Perpignan
Hugo Ellis to Rosslyn Park
Keiron Jenkins to Pontypridd
Rhys Jenkins to Newport RFC
James Leadbeater to Newport RFC
Scott Morgan Coventry
Martyn Thomas to Gloucester
Jason Tovey to Cardiff Blues
Gethin Robinson to Newport RFC
Tom Riley Cornish Pirates
Gavin Thomas retired
Joe Bedford to Doncaster

and you can say that Dragons didn't replace the top players, they have one of the smaller squads, and look to be losing some top players again. Zebre look to have better NIQ players than Dragons NWQ players.

Where's the budget increase coming from (Brown, WRU, bigger crowds this year)? Will it make a significant difference? Other Welsh fans slate the Dragons acamady as not being that great as well.

Zebre on the other hand are backed by the FIR, and draw players from the Italian Rugby Federation Academy.

All I'm saying unless something special happens at Dragons, I predict that next year they will be in a tight battle with Zebre (and maybe a few others) at the bottom of the the table.

Dragons have never finished bottom, so I may be wrong, but I do recon that the bottom of the table will be a lot closer next year, and while it looks to me Connacht, and Zebre are moving forward Dragons are running to stand still.

Zebre have been terrible. You can say oh well they are a new team etc but 0 wins no matter how you paint it is terrible.

You could oh well they have been close a few times but that's not the same as winning.

Saying losing is a great result is pretty patronising in my opinion.

Most of the Zebre side came from Aironi so it's hardly a completely scratch side.

Whoever you are - not winning matches is poor.

beshocked wrote:Zebre have been terrible. You can say oh well they are a new team etc but 0 wins no matter how you paint it is terrible.

You could oh well they have been close a few times but that's not the same as winning.

Saying losing is a great result is pretty patronising in my opinion.

Most of the Zebre side came from Aironi so it's hardly a completely scratch side.

Whoever you are - not winning matches is poor.

please guys do not respond to this.

Leinster4life what do you disagree with?

I like Zebre. I want them to do well but patting themselves on the back after a narrow loss would be the wrong attitude. You go out to win. You take the positives sure, but you should be gutted.

When Saracens lost to Leinster at Wembley I didn't say oh well we only lost by 2 points. I was very disappointed.

Zebre should be winning matches. Got to keep positive of course but you have to be realistic too.

By saying that Zebre are not bad for losing all their games it proves how rubbish you think they are.

Winning 0 out of 13 matches can never be labelled as "not bad".

Its not the results, its the performances people are looking at. They lost by 1 point away to the Ospreys, they nearly beat both the Scarlets amd Glasgow away and shouldve beaten Ulster at home. A lack of experience cost them in all them games. Which is understanable because they are a new team.

If they can build a team around Van Schalkwyk, Hangalau and Tebalde then they will improve over the next few seasons and begin to pick up wins. I hate all this negativity towards Italian rugby. They need these club sides for the national team to improve. Look at Treviso, they were once whipping boys. Now they are a really good team.

I have been really impressed with Tebalde. Why was he dropped from italy or was it just for the AIs.
He always look like a standout player for them.

does anyone think that Zebre will win. I would love to say yes but I think that Biarritiz won't make the same mistake twice and they can't afford not to come second. to finish below Connacht would be bad enough but they might need the Amlin to make the HC again.

Well, you've got to consider that Zebre are improving, but it appears to be fairly gradual. In comparing teams between leagues, you have to consider the relative strength of the leagues.

The bottom line is that Zebre have scored 46 points in 4 HC games and conceded 167 in what is probably one of the weakest pools.

There are 4 English teams that, on ability, deserve to be in the HC more, probably 7, possibly more. 5 french teams, probably 7, possibly more. Possibly 3 Irish provincial A teams.

Begs the question as to the definition of "too badly".

Dubbelyew L Overate wrote:Well, you've got to consider that Zebre are improving, but it appears to be fairly gradual. In comparing teams between leagues, you have to consider the relative strength of the leagues.

The bottom line is that Zebre have scored 46 points in 4 HC games and conceded 167 in what is probably one of the weakest pools.

There are 4 English teams that, on ability, deserve to be in the HC more, probably 7, possibly more. 5 french teams, probably 7, possibly more. Possibly 3 Irish provincial A teams.

Begs the question as to the definition of "too badly".

How is Zebre's improvement gradual? This is their first season. I would say they are developing quite nicely when you see that they were hammered by the Dragons at the start of the season and then last week lost to the ospreys away by a point and really should have won that.

Im sick of defending Italian sides. Do we not want to see rugby develope to other nations?

You have a point with the Ospreys result, we shall see if they can back that up in the rest of the season.

Yes, we want to see rugby develop in other countries, but not to the extent of ascribing a status of "not too bad" to performances of abject failure to compete. When Zebre perform well, even in defeat, and we can praise them despite being handicapped by being Italian, with a small pool of players and poor support, then we can say that European rugby is broadening its ability.

In my opinion, that time has not yet arrived.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

beshocked wrote:Zebre have been terrible. You can say oh well they are a new team etc but 0 wins no matter how you paint it is terrible.

You could oh well they have been close a few times but that's not the same as winning.

Saying losing is a great result is pretty patronising in my opinion.

Most of the Zebre side came from Aironi so it's hardly a completely scratch side.

Whoever you are - not winning matches is poor.

please guys do not respond to this.

Why should people not respond?

Not winning is 'not winning' however you want to dress it up with losing (I stress 'losing') bonus points.

Not one Italian team has managed a win in European cup competitions this season 24 games played and 24 defeats. Even the Spanish (Gernika) and Romanian (Buchuresti) teams have managed two wins apiece.

For whatever reason the Italian teams seem largely incapable of making any impact on European club rugby, although Treviso have had their moments.

It must be gutting for Dragons' fans to finish above Zebre in the league, yet not qualify for the HC.

You guys really do have some high expectations for newly formed teams.

Brendan wrote:I have been really impressed with Tebalde. Why was he dropped from italy or was it just for the AIs.
He always look like a standout player for them.

does anyone think that Zebre will win. I would love to say yes but I think that Biarritiz won't make the same mistake twice and they can't afford not to come second. to finish below Connacht would be bad enough but they might need the Amlin to make the HC again.

Ye I was shocked that Tebalde wasn't starting or even in the squad when you consider the problems they have at half backs. He is like a Morgan Para style SH. He tries to control games. He is what Italy need

LeinsterFan4life wrote:You guys really do have some high expectations for newly formed teams.

There are high expectations for teams competing in the elite European competition - it would be a travesty not to do so, whether they are newly formed or well established.

Kingshu,

People who slate the Dragons academy show their ignorance. I have shown elsewhere previously that a Welsh u18 squad had loads of Dragons in.

I actually fully agree that people are going a bit overboard with Zebre, they aren't a team that have new players, they are a rebranded Aironi. Furthermore, that Ospreys game was a bit of a red herring, as Ospreys rotated a fair bit, were poor (while Zebre played very well) and yet they still didn't win. Narrow defeats are still defeats.

Risca Rev wrote:Kingshu,

People who slate the Dragons academy show their ignorance. I have shown elsewhere previously that a Welsh u18 squad had loads of Dragons in.

I actually fully agree that people are going a bit overboard with Zebre, they aren't a team that have new players, they are a rebranded Aironi. Furthermore, that Ospreys game was a bit of a red herring, as Ospreys rotated a fair bit, were poor (while Zebre played very well) and yet they still didn't win. Narrow defeats are still defeats.

Risca what Kingshu who is saying or the way I understand it is that Dargon can't keep hold of any players they get. From the list Kingshu gave it would appear to me that they are bring through alot of players. The problem is once they show the player to be good the players get taken and the WRU does nothing.

Zebre before the start of the season people had them down for lossing every game and being rooted to the bottom of the table with not even coming close. This has not been the case and I think they are view simillar to dragons, connacht and endinburgh where they can rest players and still get results.

Only one person has said they were doing great and I think that was tongue in check, must is ok or better then expected. Zebre are poor but are not that far away from being a decent side. but we didn't expect much anyway.

From July thread

Kingshu "Going to be hard to attract fans to a team that loses nearly every home game. They need to be winning these to get fans through the door, who wants to watch a team that constantally loses, and when big teams come over they are able to send out virtual 'A' sides and still win." he did go on to say when they added Masi and Mauro that they were more dangerous

Gowales "Feck me. They are going to get smashed for the next 2 years at least"

I am sure there are plenty more but most had them down as Aronini lite eg not any good.
There atendandance has been to bad either except for the Blues game

also going through match threads they seem to have been getting more praise as time goes on and being seen as a harder and harder challange.
After the dragons game there were alot who had them do as being in trouble as they lost by so much.

Dubbelyew L Overate and Hound of Harrow thanks for agreeing.

I know it seems negative and doom and gloom to say Zebre are doing badly but let's be honest it's just realism. You get measured on results ultimately.

If in the 6 nations for example Scotland or Italy lost all their games but only by a few points everyone would say they are plucky but ultimately that would still be 5 losses.

Italy have got very close to beating England on a few occasions but the record reads - 0 from 13. A win is what they crave and that is what will gain them the plaudits. Just as their win vs France not too long ago was excellent.

Sure losing to most sides is to be expected but sides like Edinburgh,Connacht and Dragons should be realistic beatable opposition.Especially at home.

Not that far away from a decent side?

I think some fans have a different definition of what a decent side is.

I want Zebre to do well but you should acknowledge they should be doing better.

I wouldn't go so far as to say they are a rebranded Aironi, as they have moved base, stadium and training and have a lot of new players.

Part of home advantage is familarity, you know where you are going, what your routine is, where you have breakfast as a team etc etc, this all helps keep players calm and focused on the game. For Zebre they will only be finding that familarity about now.

about 2/3 of the squad came from Aironi, 1/3 are new, if any team replaced 1/3 of their squad we would expect it to take time for them to bed in, recently with Saracens, and now Sale.

I don't think they are doing better than expected, in fact they are doing worse that I expected, (thought they would have nicked a win somewhere by now) but they are the bottom club in the Pro 12, and if we compare them to the bottom teams in Aviva Prem and Top 14, they are sitting about par with them. They are not way worse that the bottom teams in the other leagues at present and thats the point.

In fact they are not far worse than the bottom teams in the other leagues and are showing very positive signs that they are improving, Aironi in their second year picked up 4 wins, I expect Zebre to do better than this in second year.

I did say "Going to be hard to attract fans to a team that loses nearly every home game. They need to be winning these to get fans through the door, who wants to watch a team that constantally loses, and when big teams come over they are able to send out virtual 'A' sides and still win."

and thats still true think it was 200 fans V Cardiff Blues, this is a building year, a few wins near the end may excite people, for next year, but to build support they do need wins.

Kingshu it didn't take long for Saracens to bed in. In the 2009/10 season with a new squad they started really strong - 10 match unbeaten run with basically new a coaching set up and team.

It was actually a freak occurrence. Saracens went from a mediocre,underachieving side to a top four side and haven't looked back since.

Sale haven't bedded in because they are taking the Steve Diamond approach (aka wrong). They have no structure.

Zebre need to work on their culture. Put down the foundations first. Fabio Ongaro should really be asking advice of his old club to be honest.

No Zebre are not par with Sale. Sale have two wins.

Sale points conceded 355, Zebre 345 Mont de Marsan 410 (played 2 more)

Ok 5 points behind Sale and 2 behind Mont de Marsan (who have played 2 more games)

sored 16 tries same as Sale, conceded 35 to Sales 29.

All i'm pointing out is they are bottom of pro 12 as expected, but they were expected to be really far at the bottom, and I'm saying they are not much further back than the other bottom teams in Europe.

beshocked wrote:

No Zebre are not par with Sale. Sale have two wins.

So if they get the same points as Sale or Mont de Marsen then you will be ok.

Also were Sale worse then Zebre when they were on less points then Zebre.

Kingshu I think Saracens try count shows the irrelevance of that stat.

They are 8 points off Dragons which is a lot.

I am sure Mont De Marsan and Sale wouldn't be saying they are doing not too bad really.

Also don't forget the English and French sides are performing better than their Pro12 counterparts in the HC and Amlin this season.

Saying it's ok for Zebre to do badly because Sale and Mont De Marsan are doing badly is missing the point. They are all doing terribly.

Zebre have 0 wins. You would expect them to have 0 wins? Really?

Brendan wrote:

beshocked wrote:

No Zebre are not par with Sale. Sale have two wins.

So if they get the same points as Sale or Mont de Marsen then you will be ok.

Also were Sale worse then Zebre when they were on less points then Zebre.

No, not necessarily. They are both doing terribly. The clear difference is Sale have 2 wins, Zebre have 0. Both are still poor but 2 out of 13 is better than 0 out of 13.

If Zebre at least win a match it will give them a little confidence - whoever they beat.

Beshocked its not about wins and losses its about pts.

So by your logic you would rather be on Sarries points then on Quinns points because you have lost less games. Sadly you are in the minority. Yes Zebre are on less points and I accept that but you say just because they haven't won any they must be rubbish. Also you are not taking into account where they are starting from.

Wasps and LW are doing great even though they are not winning the league but have exceed last year and expectations. So have Zebre and as I said in the opening post with a win or two it could have been much different. Losing by a point is far better then being played off the park.

Last five game average

After For Against Dif
5 13.6 32.8 -19.2
6 13.0 31.2 -18.2
7 12.2 29.8 -17.6
8 15.2 27.0 -11.8
9 12.8 25.4 -12.6
10 11.0 26.0 -15.0
11 11.0 22.2 -11.2
12 12.0 22.8 -10.8
13 10.0 20.6 -10.6

Interesting thing is that thier pts against is coming down. Their for is also coming down but their first 3 games were against the 3 teams that are directly above them in the league. So yes their for has come down but they have been playing better teams

Its a building process it takes time. Treviso were whipping boys not so long ago. Now look at them. It took a last minute penalty try for Leicster to beat them and they were winning for most of the game against Tolouse. They have also beaten Biarritz and the Ospreys in Europe.

We need to let this team develope. The Italian national side need these teams or else they won't get better.

Brendan it is about wins and losses. That's what makes all the difference.

Yes I would rather be in Saracen's position. Saracens are only two points behind Quins. Quins still have to play Saracens away.

Ultimately it comes down to those decisive games that you win or lose.

E.g. 2009/10 AP final both teams played great but Saracens lost. 2010/11 AP final Saracens didn't play as well but won the AP.

Losing pluckily might win you friends but it doesn't win you respect. Winning even ugly won't you friends but it's what gets you silverware and respect.

Teams look for success.

Zebre need to learn to win those tight matches because that turns a poor/mediocre one into a team that can win silverware.

Look how many tight games Quins and Saracens win.

Leinsterfan4life Treviso drew to Ospreys. They should have won that match.

It only takes one season to improve. Look at Wasps last season and this season.

Good recruitment and decent academy products has meant an upturn in fortunes.

People including myself thought LW would go down. LW are earning people's respect in the AP by winning matches. They are not bottom of the AP as expected.

They refuse to believe this notion that because they came from the championship they should be rubbish.

Look at Exeter who came up from the Championship.

beshocked wrote:Brendan it is about wins and losses. That's what makes all the difference.

Yes I would rather be in Saracen's position. Saracens are only two points behind Quins. Quins still have to play Saracens away.

Ultimately it comes down to those decisive games that you win or lose.

E.g. 2009/10 AP final both teams played great but Saracens lost. 2010/11 AP final Saracens didn't play as well but won the AP.

Losing pluckily might win you friends but it doesn't win you respect. Winning even ugly won't you friends but it's what gets you silverware and respect.

Teams look for success.

Zebre need to learn to win those tight matches because that turns a poor/mediocre one into a team that can win silverware.

Look how many tight games Quins and Saracens win.

Leinsterfan4life Treviso drew to Ospreys. They should have won that match.

It only takes one season to improve. Look at Wasps last season and this season.

Good recruitment and decent academy products has meant an upturn in fortunes.

The good thing about Treviso is that their attendences are getting better now. They have a higher average attendence than Glasgow and Edinburagh this season. They nearly sold out their stadium when they played us in the Pro12 at the start of the season.

beshocked wrote:Brendan it is about wins and losses. That's what makes all the difference.

Yes I would rather be in Saracen's position. Saracens are only two points behind Quins. Quins still have to play Saracens away.

Ultimately it comes down to those decisive games that you win or lose.

E.g. 2009/10 AP final both teams played great but Saracens lost. 2010/11 AP final Saracens didn't play as well but won the AP.

Losing pluckily might win you friends but it doesn't win you respect. Winning even ugly won't you friends but it's what gets you silverware and respect.

Teams look for success.

Zebre need to learn to win those tight matches because that turns a poor/mediocre one into a team that can win silverware.

Look how many tight games Quins and Saracens win.

Leinsterfan4life Treviso drew to Ospreys. They should have won that match.

It only takes one season to improve. Look at Wasps last season and this season.

Good recruitment and decent academy products has meant an upturn in fortunes.

as has been stated elsewhere nothing was expected of Zebre, they weren't even expected to compete. they are competing therefore they are exceeding expectation therefore they have to be doing ok.

Sale were meant to be pushing for tha top four not fighting it out for relegation.

Brendan wrote:

beshocked wrote:Brendan it is about wins and losses. That's what makes all the difference.

Yes I would rather be in Saracen's position. Saracens are only two points behind Quins. Quins still have to play Saracens away.

Ultimately it comes down to those decisive games that you win or lose.

E.g. 2009/10 AP final both teams played great but Saracens lost. 2010/11 AP final Saracens didn't play as well but won the AP.

Losing pluckily might win you friends but it doesn't win you respect. Winning even ugly won't you friends but it's what gets you silverware and respect.

Teams look for success.

Zebre need to learn to win those tight matches because that turns a poor/mediocre one into a team that can win silverware.

Look how many tight games Quins and Saracens win.

Leinsterfan4life Treviso drew to Ospreys. They should have won that match.

It only takes one season to improve. Look at Wasps last season and this season.

Good recruitment and decent academy products has meant an upturn in fortunes.

as has been stated elsewhere nothing was expected of Zebre, they weren't even expected to compete. they are competing therefore they are exceeding expectation therefore they have to be doing ok.

Sale were meant to be pushing for tha top four not fighting it out for relegation.

Sale pushing for top 4? No. I knew that was a foolish expectation long before Sale's awful results. Unrealistic expectations. You think it is unrealistic to expect Zebre to have won 1 or 2 games in 13?

Define competing? They can't even beat the other weak sides in the Pro12. People on these forums have said how poor Dragons are yet Zebre can't beat them.

Surely by showing that Zebre are close to beating these sides they should at least 1 win under their belt?

You could look at it another way - 6 of these matches have been close losses. 7 have not been close losses. Still all losses.

beshocked wrote:

Brendan wrote:

beshocked wrote:Brendan it is about wins and losses. That's what makes all the difference.

Yes I would rather be in Saracen's position. Saracens are only two points behind Quins. Quins still have to play Saracens away.

Ultimately it comes down to those decisive games that you win or lose.

E.g. 2009/10 AP final both teams played great but Saracens lost. 2010/11 AP final Saracens didn't play as well but won the AP.

Losing pluckily might win you friends but it doesn't win you respect. Winning even ugly won't you friends but it's what gets you silverware and respect.

Teams look for success.

Zebre need to learn to win those tight matches because that turns a poor/mediocre one into a team that can win silverware.

Look how many tight games Quins and Saracens win.

Leinsterfan4life Treviso drew to Ospreys. They should have won that match.

It only takes one season to improve. Look at Wasps last season and this season.

Good recruitment and decent academy products has meant an upturn in fortunes.

as has been stated elsewhere nothing was expected of Zebre, they weren't even expected to compete. they are competing therefore they are exceeding expectation therefore they have to be doing ok.

Sale were meant to be pushing for tha top four not fighting it out for relegation.

Sale pushing for top 4? No. I knew that was a foolish expectation long before Sale's awful results. Unrealistic expectations. You think it is unrealistic to expect Zebre to have won 1 or 2 games in 13?

Define competing? They can't even beat the other weak sides in the Pro12. People on these forums have said how poor Dragons are yet Zebre can't beat them.

Surely by showing that Zebre are close to beating these sides they should at least 1 win under their belt?

You could look at it another way - 6 of these matches have been close losses. 7 have not been close losses. Still all losses.

Zebre have only played the Dragons once though and that was their first game of the season. Also its unfair to compare them to the Dragons as they have been around for years whereas this is Zebres first season.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

beshocked wrote:

Brendan wrote:

beshocked wrote:Brendan it is about wins and losses. That's what makes all the difference.

Yes I would rather be in Saracen's position. Saracens are only two points behind Quins. Quins still have to play Saracens away.

Ultimately it comes down to those decisive games that you win or lose.

E.g. 2009/10 AP final both teams played great but Saracens lost. 2010/11 AP final Saracens didn't play as well but won the AP.

Losing pluckily might win you friends but it doesn't win you respect. Winning even ugly won't you friends but it's what gets you silverware and respect.

Teams look for success.

Zebre need to learn to win those tight matches because that turns a poor/mediocre one into a team that can win silverware.

Look how many tight games Quins and Saracens win.

Leinsterfan4life Treviso drew to Ospreys. They should have won that match.

It only takes one season to improve. Look at Wasps last season and this season.

Good recruitment and decent academy products has meant an upturn in fortunes.

as has been stated elsewhere nothing was expected of Zebre, they weren't even expected to compete. they are competing therefore they are exceeding expectation therefore they have to be doing ok.

Sale were meant to be pushing for tha top four not fighting it out for relegation.

Sale pushing for top 4? No. I knew that was a foolish expectation long before Sale's awful results. Unrealistic expectations. You think it is unrealistic to expect Zebre to have won 1 or 2 games in 13?

Define competing? They can't even beat the other weak sides in the Pro12. People on these forums have said how poor Dragons are yet Zebre can't beat them.

Surely by showing that Zebre are close to beating these sides they should at least 1 win under their belt?

You could look at it another way - 6 of these matches have been close losses. 7 have not been close losses. Still all losses.

Zebre have only played the Dragons once though and that was their first game of the season. Also its unfair to compare them to the Dragons as they have been around for years whereas this is Zebres first season.

Not really a new team though - sure a bit of re branding but sounds like just an excuse for being poor. There is not a gulf in class in regards to player quality - there shouldn't be anyway.

They have played the Dragons once and lost. Ok compare them to London Welsh - first season in the AP and they are handling the transition alright.

You seem to be under the impression that because they are a "new" side and Italian they should be pleased with no wins.

Don't worry guys. Losing is ok because it's our "first" season.

Yes they are a new team. A lot of their team was playing in the Italian league last season. The two best players Aironi had are now in the Aviva Premiership.

Your expectations for a new side are quite frankly crazy If Wales or Scotland put in a new side they would be of a similar standard to Zebre, if not worse because Zebre have a couple of internationals in their side and made a couple of good signings.

Who is saying they should be pleased with losing? All we are saying is that we are pleasently surprised at a few of their results and performances. After they got hammered by the Dragons at the start of the season, I was really worried about how they would get on. But they seem to be building now.
I know for a fact the players aren't happy with the loses. They looked devestated after the Ulster game. A game they should have won.


Edit: I count 17 players in the Zebre squad were playing in the Italian league last season. Another one was playing his club rugby in Argentina