Saracens New Signings and Contract Extensions

Just saw this annouced on Twitter and is also on the Saracens site below.

http://www.saracens.com/news/view.php?Id=7345

Big signings for them with JJ and Billy Vunipola coming in

Not surprised by Billy V, but massively surprised by JJ. As he was already in the premiership he can't be Sarries marquee signing and he would have been offered a huge amount from the French clubs interested in him. I appreciate it is not all about cash, but it would be very interested to know what he feels Sarries could bring him that Quins can't. He certainly won't have come cheap and will only compound the Sarries flaunting the salary cap rumours. However, if I were a Sarries fan I wouldn't give a stuff; I'd be very excited about next season!

Thats a bit of a kick in the teeth for Wasps. Something special is happening!

You do wonder if the reported cash flow problems at Wasps played a part. The Daily Hate reported that Billy had re-signed a few weeks ago and they are normally pretty good.

I too wonder what Sarries can possibly offer that we won't. Can't see how it can be cash within the rules, won't be more gametime (he's our first choice, Sarries have Stevens and Nieto to fight with) and we look to be in at least as good a position to compete in the AP and HEC. Expected to lose him to France, feel a bit disappointed to lose him to a Club that is one of our rivals and on a similar standing

Does Billy coming in mean Joubert is on the move...

PS Im not so sure its a haymaker blow for Quins to lose JJ. Theyve got Sinkler to come in and take over...yes hes young but pretty damn good from all accounts. And is Lambert a TH aswell?

JJ has his moments...but im not sure hes worth breaking the bank to keep...

Other JJ Geordie

Have also just seen on Twitter that Wasps are 'fuming' and will release a statement regarding Billy Vunipola tomorrow.

Sarries front row options next year will be unbelievable even with the rumours of John Smit on his way out. Gill and M.Vunipola at LH, JJ and Nieto at TH with Stevens being able to cover both sides. Add to that Brits and George in the middle of the scrum.

I agree with above posters, not sure why JJ chose Sarries as Quins just as competitive across the board.

Shame to lose JJ, but we have Sinkler up and coming and Lambert will see this as an opportunity to step up.

It will sting a bit as he is a first choice prop, but it's certainly not a killer blow, just a bit of a shame. He's got to look after number 1 though, good luck to him.

Got to feel for Wasps, massive smack in the teeth...but I guess Sarries have the glory, facilities and money to attract players now and Mako is there....success breeds success...its also an England feeder club with Faz at the RFU...Still Billy will have to fight for the starting shirt with Ernst J, While at wasps he was really progressing nicely with week in and out rugby.

Sarries will have to shed some backrowers as its too congested joubert, wray, ross, brown, burger, fraser, saull, hankin,melck, vunipola !!

Pretty gutted about this. I thought B Vunipola has really come at Wasps. Saracens drill their pack superbly so he may improve even further, but I can't see his linking with the backs improving. Eurgh, sorry Sarries fans but as much as I respect your team watching them leaves me cold.

sirtidychris wrote:Got to feel for Wasps, massive smack in the teeth...but I guess Sarries have the glory, facilities and money to attract players now and Mako is there....success breeds success...its also an England feeder club with Faz at the RFU...Still Billy will have to fight for the starting shirt with Ernst J, While at wasps he was really progressing nicely with week in and out rugby.

Sarries will have to shed some backrowers as its too congested joubert, wray, ross, brown, burger, fraser, saull, hankin,melck, vunipola !!

It sounds like Saull is on his way out from the rumours flying around.

Wouldn't be surprised if saull went ...he's really dropped off the hype train.

Saracens are obviously using the pay a pound scheme to flex the cap even more. You have to wonder though how far beyond their income they can keep pushing things.

Wasps have done very well to build the side back up whilst virtually bankrupt but it's no great shock to see them unable to compete for hot properties.

Honestly can not belive that Johnston has left Quins to go to Saracens. I could understand France for the money and lifestyle and his bro plays there, but Saracens WTF?

I asked a while back how certain clubs could build the ubber squads that they have with the salary cap and these signings just show that Saracens are taking the p%*s.

Still Kohn has at least re-signed and I guess we'll have the funds now to address any other squad issues.

Rhys Gill is on his way to Cardiff Blues.

yappysnap wrote:Honestly can not belive that Johnston has left Quins to go to Saracens. I could understand France for the money and lifestyle and his bro plays there, but Saracens WTF?

I asked a while back how certain clubs could build the ubber squads that they have with the salary cap and these signings just show that Saracens are taking the p%*s.

Still Kohn has at least re-signed and I guess we'll have the funds now to address any other squad issues.

Lets have some evidence before we start accusing people Yappy. As we know Saracens have a very good retirement system with placements in the city available. They have to be one of the most attractive clubs for player support etc IMO. That may have influenced his decision. But I can understand your grievances as JJ was a big player for you and losing him to an AP rival must be a bitter blow.

As far as I understand things (correct me if im wrong) If you have a player in the EPS then england pay a chunk of there salary or at least there salary is supplemented by the RFU, as i remember tindall having to take a massive pay cut to stay at gloucester when he dropped out the EPS after the RWC 2011 as they couldnt afford his wage (forgetting that they may not want to pay him due to age etc...)

So sarries at the moment have
Mako V
Kruis
Botha
Wigglesworth
Tomkins
Billy V (soon anyway)
Fraser
Farrell
Barritt
Ashton
Strettle
Goode

All either in the main squad or second squad, so i wonder if this allows them to afford such a talented bunch of guys with so much extra wonga coming from the richest rugby body in the world.

yappysnap wrote:Honestly can not belive that Johnston has left Quins to go to Saracens. I could understand France for the money and lifestyle and his bro plays there, but Saracens WTF?

I asked a while back how certain clubs could build the ubber squads that they have with the salary cap and these signings just show that Saracens are taking the p%*s.

Still Kohn has at least re-signed and I guess we'll have the funds now to address any other squad issues.

Yeah, I was a bit surprised by Saracens as well tbh Yappy, but he's a journeyman, he doesn't owe any kind of allegiance to Quins. He didn't come through the academy, he's part of the Samoan RFU and will probably go back to Samoa once his card is called. He was paid the £££'s to do a job and he's done it admirably.

Odd decision as Sarries are a club that aren't necessarily in a better position than us to win anymore silverware and not guaranteed week-in-week-out games, but they have a sugar daddy and a good club ethos by all reports.

Now lets get the mileage out of him for the rest of the season eh? ....

sirtidychris wrote:As far as I understand things (correct me if im wrong) If you have a player in the EPS then england pay a chunk of there salary or at least there salary is supplemented by the RFU, as i remember tindall having to take a massive pay cut to stay at gloucester when he dropped out the EPS after the RWC 2011 as they couldnt afford his wage (forgetting that they may not want to pay him due to age etc...)

So sarries at the moment have
Mako V
Kruis
Botha
Wigglesworth
Tomkins
Billy V (soon anyway)
Fraser
Farrell
Barritt
Ashton
Strettle
Goode

All either in the main squad or second squad, so i wonder if this allows them to afford such a talented bunch of guys with so much extra wonga coming from the richest rugby body in the world.

The players can receive up to £100k a year, but this does not impact upon the salary cap or paid to the club (they receive separate payments). So it makes no difference which club the player plays for they'll receive the player will receive the money regardless.

Good news for the Saracens. They already have a strong, competitive squad and the academy is producing. The club will be up there with the best in europe on a regular basis for years to come. Are you keeping hold of guys like Britz, Botha and Joubert?

Manu's Boxing Coach wrote:

yappysnap wrote:Honestly can not belive that Johnston has left Quins to go to Saracens. I could understand France for the money and lifestyle and his bro plays there, but Saracens WTF?

I asked a while back how certain clubs could build the ubber squads that they have with the salary cap and these signings just show that Saracens are taking the p%*s.

Still Kohn has at least re-signed and I guess we'll have the funds now to address any other squad issues.

Lets have some evidence before we start accusing people Yappy. As we know Saracens have a very good retirement system with placements in the city available. They have to be one of the most attractive clubs for player support etc IMO. That may have influenced his decision. But I can understand your grievances as JJ was a big player for you and losing him to an AP rival must be a bitter blow.

If there was evidence we'd be having a very different discussion. JJ is only 26 and to my understanding does not have the educational background many players have, so I would be extremely surprised if one he is thinking about his retirement plans or would be picked up by a City firm - Tom Voyce thought he'd walk into a City job and the reality is that this rarely happens in rugby anymore. If he were considering his future he'd be far more likely to go to France. Jim Hamilton has explained his decision behind moving to France; if you are injured and retire you get your full contract paid in full plus a further 2 years salary on top. Therefore such a move is far more likely if someone is considering their future.

The reality is that Sarries are building a very strong side. They have a side that on paper many teams couldn't afford. Ashton & JJ both represent high profile moves, both of whom aren't eligible for the marquee signing. If Sarries aren't breaking the cap they are doing something that the bulk of other clubs don't appear to be able to do and it would be fascinating to know what that is.

Big loss for Wasps, though maybe not that surprising given his brother is there. Whatever people think of Saracens, it's certainly true that they take exceptional care of their players, something he's probably heard plenty about from his brother, as well as the facilities Sarries have and are developing compared to Wasps (they really need to push forward in that regard to attract/keep the best players). And with Saracens' rotation policy he knows that he'll get decent rest periods without having to worry too much about fighting for a place in the side, something that could be particularly relevant if he is to push in a sustained fashion for an England career.

Regarding Johnston, I wonder if in addition to money and player care already discussed, that the size of their squad means they have offered him assertions that he is able to pass on to the Samoan selectors regarding being available for extended periods in the lead up to and after all internationals.

He's a journeyman who may not have come from our academy but owes his change from an average at best prop into one receiving domestic and European acclaim to us, like Easter and to a lesser degree Care. If I saw the likely benefit to his career is be more understanding

Gutted that Billy V is going to Sarries. It seems harder to take when a great prospect who is still young and has come up through our academy system.

Wasps statement tomorrow will be interesting as will Quins re JJ.

Billy's dad is apparently his agent & he must be on some good money to have signed ' a long term contract'.

Good luck Billy V - I hope you get the first team action you deserve.

He was available and played for Samoa this year

ChequeredJersey wrote:He's a journeyman who may not have come from our academy but owes his change from an average at best prop into one receiving domestic and European acclaim to us, like Easter and to a lesser degree Care. If I saw the likely benefit to his career is be more understanding

Aye, that's the bit that stings a touch.

We all knew that Quins were unable to afford the sort of contract Johnston was after. The down side of developing players is that when they appear for England their pay goes up. New contracts for players like Evans, Brown, Care, Casson, Kohn, Marler, Lowe and others strip away the ability to pay Johnston.

That he went to Sarries is a surprise - but he will get more rest time there than staying at the Stoop or travelling to France.

HongKongCherry wrote:Other JJ Geordie

Damn you were too quick

I spotted my mistake and corrected it....

ChequeredJersey wrote:
He was available and played for Samoa this year

I know he was CJ, what my post was suggesting as a possibility was extra release beyond that required so that Samoa have him for as much time as they want building up to internationals. That may well not be the case, but I was trying to think of things that Saracens might possibly be in place to offer that Quins can't.

In the recent AIs for instance, the Samoan squad met up on Monday 29th October. Johnston didn't meet up with them until after Quins match against Gloucester on Saturday 3rd November, with their first match the next Friday.

HongKongCherry wrote:

Manu's Boxing Coach wrote:

yappysnap wrote:Honestly can not belive that Johnston has left Quins to go to Saracens. I could understand France for the money and lifestyle and his bro plays there, but Saracens WTF?

I asked a while back how certain clubs could build the ubber squads that they have with the salary cap and these signings just show that Saracens are taking the p%*s.

Still Kohn has at least re-signed and I guess we'll have the funds now to address any other squad issues.

Lets have some evidence before we start accusing people Yappy. As we know Saracens have a very good retirement system with placements in the city available. They have to be one of the most attractive clubs for player support etc IMO. That may have influenced his decision. But I can understand your grievances as JJ was a big player for you and losing him to an AP rival must be a bitter blow.

If there was evidence we'd be having a very different discussion. JJ is only 26 and to my understanding does not have the educational background many players have, so I would be extremely surprised if one he is thinking about his retirement plans or would be picked up by a City firm - Tom Voyce thought he'd walk into a City job and the reality is that this rarely happens in rugby anymore. If he were considering his future he'd be far more likely to go to France. Jim Hamilton has explained his decision behind moving to France; if you are injured and retire you get your full contract paid in full plus a further 2 years salary on top. Therefore such a move is far more likely if someone is considering their future.

The reality is that Sarries are building a very strong side. They have a side that on paper many teams couldn't afford. Ashton & JJ both represent high profile moves, both of whom aren't eligible for the marquee signing. If Sarries aren't breaking the cap they are doing something that the bulk of other clubs don't appear to be able to do and it would be fascinating to know what that is.

For every pound over the cap they are fined a pound, so the wages cost them double

LT, sounds like Quins are starting to understand the problems Tigers face every season when it comes to keeping their players they've improved.

At least Quins fans will get to see what O'Shea can do with some wage cap to spend.

I know he was CJ, what my post was suggesting as a possibility was extra release beyond that required so that Samoa have him for as much time as they want building up to internationals. That may well not be the case, but I was trying to think of things that Saracens might possibly be in place to offer that Quins can't.

AP clubs won't release players early because it would jepordise the deal they have with the RFU that is rather lucrative.

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:

HongKongCherry wrote:

Manu's Boxing Coach wrote:

yappysnap wrote:Honestly can not belive that Johnston has left Quins to go to Saracens. I could understand France for the money and lifestyle and his bro plays there, but Saracens WTF?

I asked a while back how certain clubs could build the ubber squads that they have with the salary cap and these signings just show that Saracens are taking the p%*s.

Still Kohn has at least re-signed and I guess we'll have the funds now to address any other squad issues.

Lets have some evidence before we start accusing people Yappy. As we know Saracens have a very good retirement system with placements in the city available. They have to be one of the most attractive clubs for player support etc IMO. That may have influenced his decision. But I can understand your grievances as JJ was a big player for you and losing him to an AP rival must be a bitter blow.

If there was evidence we'd be having a very different discussion. JJ is only 26 and to my understanding does not have the educational background many players have, so I would be extremely surprised if one he is thinking about his retirement plans or would be picked up by a City firm - Tom Voyce thought he'd walk into a City job and the reality is that this rarely happens in rugby anymore. If he were considering his future he'd be far more likely to go to France. Jim Hamilton has explained his decision behind moving to France; if you are injured and retire you get your full contract paid in full plus a further 2 years salary on top. Therefore such a move is far more likely if someone is considering their future.

The reality is that Sarries are building a very strong side. They have a side that on paper many teams couldn't afford. Ashton & JJ both represent high profile moves, both of whom aren't eligible for the marquee signing. If Sarries aren't breaking the cap they are doing something that the bulk of other clubs don't appear to be able to do and it would be fascinating to know what that is.

For every pound over the cap they are fined a pound, so the wages cost them double

Is that true PSW? Never heard of that before if so I am surprised it has not come out sooner and is good news for the likes of Bath etc with large benefactors who can probably afford the cost. But as it being called a cap I actually thought it was one not just a sum of money that if you go past fines will be administered......

AlastairW wrote:

ChequeredJersey wrote:He's a journeyman who may not have come from our academy but owes his change from an average at best prop into one receiving domestic and European acclaim to us, like Easter and to a lesser degree Care. If I saw the likely benefit to his career is be more understanding

Aye, that's the bit that stings a touch.

CJ and Alastair,

Yea that for me is the worst part, although not originally from the academy he had a huge amount of work done on him by Kingston and during that time he's become a firm fan favourite as well. And now he's left apparently for the money and rest (I can't think of anything else except he doesn't like playing every game and wants more money) and the club that he's signed for is no better and potentially worse (results/silverware wise) then us.

Oh and apparently there's been some words on Twitter between Brown, Easter, Robson and JJ. Seems like they didn't know that he was leaving either.

Still lets get the most out of him now and then look forward to seeing Synckler terrify the opposition next season (ANOTHER EQ player too).

Isn't Synckler an U20? Losing JJ would kind of set you back to where you was before (the time you played Toulon). Quins should look to recruit in this area if they want to stay at the top.

The fines on the salary cap are penalties for small errors. Large errors are supposed to incur points deductions.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

I know he was CJ, what my post was suggesting as a possibility was extra release beyond that required so that Samoa have him for as much time as they want building up to internationals. That may well not be the case, but I was trying to think of things that Saracens might possibly be in place to offer that Quins can't.

AP clubs won't release players early because it would jepordise the deal they have with the RFU that is rather lucrative.

Isn't the position that the players would be released if similar 'compensation' took place (something the Welsh & Scottish unions refused to do)? Are we certain that that 'compensation' can't be factored into an individual's contract, particularly as the Samoan union would never be able to afford such a thing for all its players? I can imagine Saracens being creative in what it needs to do to get their man. It'll be interesting to see if Johnston is training with Saracens or maybe at least rested the weekend before next year's AIs. If not, it really would just be down to money and player management.

Morgannwg wrote:Isn't Synckler an U20? Losing JJ would kind of set you back to where you was before (the time you played Toulon). Quins should look to recruit in this area if they want to stay at the top.

21 now, to be honest i'm not sure how many props there are out there that we could grab, they're a pretty scarce commodity.

Yeah true. It's just that it might be a tough couple years with JJ gone. Marler struggled when you were introducing him, but he's good enough now.

Isn't Collier ahead of Sinkler in the Quins hierachy? I think Sinkler is 19, so it's hard to see him being 1st choice TH. Quins will be looking for a new TH. I wonder if they could do something with Brookes, who isn't featuring for Tigers.

The real shame here is Vunipola. He was coming on really well and I don't like to see a club like Wasps develop an English player and then have him picked up by a rival just as he's starting to perform. Sarries have an excellent academy of their own, a promising young 8 in Jackson Wray, and should consider how they how they are perceived after doing something like that. And it's really not clear how they are complying with the salary cap.

DaveM wrote:Isn't Collier ahead of Sinkler in the Quins hierachy? I think Sinkler is 19, so it's hard to see him being 1st choice TH. Quins will be looking for a new TH. I wonder if they could do something with Brookes, who isn't featuring for Tigers.

The real shame here is Vunipola. He was coming on really well and I don't like to see a club like Wasps develop an English player and then have him picked up by a rival just as he's starting to perform. Sarries have an excellent academy of their own, a promising young 8 in Jackson Wray, and should consider how they how they are perceived after doing something like that. And it's really not clear how they are complying with the salary cap.

Pretty much my exact thoughts. But then Saracens have never been in the business of worrying about making friends.

Just thought I'd point out that although he owes his professional career to them Billy isn't solely a product of Wasps, he started off life at Bristol's academy & Castle School with his brother and had already established himself in the England U18 starting XV since 16yo by the time Wasps & Harrow jointly picked him up.

Well, we are rumoured to be in for PDJ, whom frankly I don't rate that highly but would fit our gameplan and I'm sure we could do a Marler/JJ on. Plus Collier and Lambert have actually filled in pretty well recently and Sinckler is in the pipeline

Manu's Boxing Coach wrote:

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:

HongKongCherry wrote:

Manu's Boxing Coach wrote:

yappysnap wrote:Honestly can not belive that Johnston has left Quins to go to Saracens. I could understand France for the money and lifestyle and his bro plays there, but Saracens WTF?

I asked a while back how certain clubs could build the ubber squads that they have with the salary cap and these signings just show that Saracens are taking the p%*s.

Still Kohn has at least re-signed and I guess we'll have the funds now to address any other squad issues.

Lets have some evidence before we start accusing people Yappy. As we know Saracens have a very good retirement system with placements in the city available. They have to be one of the most attractive clubs for player support etc IMO. That may have influenced his decision. But I can understand your grievances as JJ was a big player for you and losing him to an AP rival must be a bitter blow.

If there was evidence we'd be having a very different discussion. JJ is only 26 and to my understanding does not have the educational background many players have, so I would be extremely surprised if one he is thinking about his retirement plans or would be picked up by a City firm - Tom Voyce thought he'd walk into a City job and the reality is that this rarely happens in rugby anymore. If he were considering his future he'd be far more likely to go to France. Jim Hamilton has explained his decision behind moving to France; if you are injured and retire you get your full contract paid in full plus a further 2 years salary on top. Therefore such a move is far more likely if someone is considering their future.

The reality is that Sarries are building a very strong side. They have a side that on paper many teams couldn't afford. Ashton & JJ both represent high profile moves, both of whom aren't eligible for the marquee signing. If Sarries aren't breaking the cap they are doing something that the bulk of other clubs don't appear to be able to do and it would be fascinating to know what that is.

For every pound over the cap they are fined a pound, so the wages cost them double

Is that true PSW? Never heard of that before if so I am surprised it has not come out sooner and is good news for the likes of Bath etc with large benefactors who can probably afford the cost. But as it being called a cap I actually thought it was one not just a sum of money that if you go past fines will be administered......

I thought it was for every 3 pound over the cap you are 'fined' a pound, with a possible points deduction for a 'serious breach' of the cap. I don't believe there is a definition anywhere of what constitutes a serious breach. The whole cap issue is far to cloudy for me, and the RFU/Premiership or whoever administers it need to be far more transparent than they have been.

I'm really not sure about PDJ at all, as mentioned by DaveM Collier would be our next choice but while very solid he isn't an attacking player like JJ.

Sarries almost seem like a kid in a candy shop, just buying what ever takes their fancy whether they need that player or not.

I wouldn't go that far, though obviously we need to look at whatever they are doing to get around the cap and decide whether it's acceptable and viable to try the same. To be fair to Sarries, if they are losing Smit etc they will get a fair bit of space from that

Ozzy3213 wrote:

Manu's Boxing Coach wrote:

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:

HongKongCherry wrote:

Manu's Boxing Coach wrote:

yappysnap wrote:Honestly can not belive that Johnston has left Quins to go to Saracens. I could understand France for the money and lifestyle and his bro plays there, but Saracens WTF?

I asked a while back how certain clubs could build the ubber squads that they have with the salary cap and these signings just show that Saracens are taking the p%*s.

Still Kohn has at least re-signed and I guess we'll have the funds now to address any other squad issues.

Lets have some evidence before we start accusing people Yappy. As we know Saracens have a very good retirement system with placements in the city available. They have to be one of the most attractive clubs for player support etc IMO. That may have influenced his decision. But I can understand your grievances as JJ was a big player for you and losing him to an AP rival must be a bitter blow.

If there was evidence we'd be having a very different discussion. JJ is only 26 and to my understanding does not have the educational background many players have, so I would be extremely surprised if one he is thinking about his retirement plans or would be picked up by a City firm - Tom Voyce thought he'd walk into a City job and the reality is that this rarely happens in rugby anymore. If he were considering his future he'd be far more likely to go to France. Jim Hamilton has explained his decision behind moving to France; if you are injured and retire you get your full contract paid in full plus a further 2 years salary on top. Therefore such a move is far more likely if someone is considering their future.

The reality is that Sarries are building a very strong side. They have a side that on paper many teams couldn't afford. Ashton & JJ both represent high profile moves, both of whom aren't eligible for the marquee signing. If Sarries aren't breaking the cap they are doing something that the bulk of other clubs don't appear to be able to do and it would be fascinating to know what that is.

For every pound over the cap they are fined a pound, so the wages cost them double

Is that true PSW? Never heard of that before if so I am surprised it has not come out sooner and is good news for the likes of Bath etc with large benefactors who can probably afford the cost. But as it being called a cap I actually thought it was one not just a sum of money that if you go past fines will be administered......

I thought it was for every 3 pound over the cap you are 'fined' a pound, with a possible points deduction for a 'serious breach' of the cap. I don't believe there is a definition anywhere of what constitutes a serious breach. The whole cap issue is far to cloudy for me, and the RFU/Premiership or whoever administers it need to be far more transparent than they have been.

I think that's exactly right, which makes it odd that JJ would go to Saracens and they could afford him when he'd had offers of £300k from French teams.

ChequeredJersey wrote:I wouldn't go that far, though obviously we need to look at whatever they are doing to get around the cap and decide whether it's acceptable and viable to try the same. To be fair to Sarries, if they are losing Smit etc they will get a fair bit of space from that

I was more thinking that they had two talented young English hookers but baught in Smit, then as you say a young 8 but buy in Vunipola, they've already got two props but then purchase Johnston. Are these players really needed?

I believe Carlos Nieto is retiring from Sarries too - that probably free's up a big wedge of cash for them to poach JJ.
As a Quins fan I am dissapointed to hear that he is going - a real crowd favourite.
I just dont want to see us fall and stutter for a bit like we did when Ceri Jones and Mike Ross left in the same season.

I'm not all over the PDJ idea myself either, he just hasn't impressed everytime i've seen him play. Use what we have and develop them; look after them, and they'll look after us.

Look at the situation Sarries are in at the moment. They have just lashed out a truck load of cash for a top of the line new stadium to put down roots, and the bottom line is that winning games with the best players you can afford will put bums in seats. Why skimp on the players in the stadium after you've just paid for that fixed asset?