Flood/Farrell Injury

So if Flood or Farrell was to get injured in the game against Scotland, who would England bring in as back up? Freddie Burns is injured for the foreseeable future, George Ford is the only 10 in the Saxons but is surely far too raw for international rugby. Twelvetrees has been playing at 12 for the past couple of seasons, although he could cover 10 on the bench if required.

Therefore, it would not be impossible to vouch for a recall for 'the messiah' himself: Danny Cipriani. After watching the Sale vs Scarlets game he was very impressive, his goal kicking, passing, game management, pace and eye for the gap made him the stand out player on the pitch. He has been unfortunate that he has been playing behind a weak pack this season. If he had joined a side such as Northampton or Bath he could have been much closer to an international recall.

Other options would include Lamb or Myler from Northampton, or moving Alex Goode to 10, a position he not completely unfamiliar with.

Thoughts?

Jonny

so who is ENG 4th choice FH?

In that case you'd rather bring back JW for an emergency cover. It would do no good for Ford to be thrown in.. given he hardly starts for his club so I've heard.

robshaw4england wrote:Therefore, it would not be impossible to vouch for a recall for 'the messiah' himself: Danny Cipriani. After watching the Sale vs Scarlets game he was very impressive, his goal kicking, passing, game management, pace and eye for the gap made him the stand out player on the pitch. He has been unfortunate that he has been playing behind a weak pack this season. If he had joined a side such as Northampton or Bath he could have been much closer to an international recall.
Thoughts?

My word he must have improved in the second half.

In the first he was totally and utterly incompetent - the worst display I have seen from a supposed international 10 in many a while. In defence Sale tried to hide him, which then caused other problems as props were covering his defensive duties. When asked to tackle he ran away, when trying to field a kick under any sort of pressure he panicked like Corporal Jones. His passing was hurried and inaccurate whenever he saw an opponent. He missed penalty kicks to touch and a couple of easy ones at goal.

I switched off at that point sure that no-one would be calling for him to be recalled.

Glad to hear he got better - even if that was Scarlets 3rd team.

Personally I'd rather see JW or Andy Goode over Cipriani.
I don't think he has the speed of thought for International rugby, hence the number of charge downs when he was wearing white.

I suppose in a real emergency Charlie or Jonny could come in temporarily.

Not convinced that Danny Boy has re learnt how to tackle.

How could I forget! yup - Charlie! The charge down king!

Rightly or wrongly, Ford is 4th in line. He did OK in Galway v Wolfhounds. Should they need a 10 on the bench, then I suspect he would get the nod. If Burns/Farrell/Flood were all injured - then I suspect that Lancaster would speak to the old stagers Wilkinson/Hodgson rather than throw Ford in to start.

For me I would rather see:

Hodgson, Wilkinson, Andy Goode, Rob Andrew and Stuart Barnes called up before Cips. Mind you I am now biased against him. (Hey and who wouldn't want to see Sqeeky or Barnes being smashed by Big Jim?)

LondonTiger wrote:
Hodgson, Wilkinson, Andy Goode, Rob Andrew and Stuart Barnes called up before Cips. Mind you I am now biased against him. (Hey and who wouldn't want to see Sqeeky or Barnes being smashed by Big Jim?)

I'd pay good money for that!

If not Ford then Hodgson would be the obvious one. Hes at least trained and played with the squad recently.
Mind if Twelvetrees is in the matchday squad they could just rely on him or even Goode as injury backup.

If they had any intention at all of including other fly halves they wouldve been picked for the Saxons. Cipriani is still a massive fruitcake, Andy Goode is far more consistent...but Hodgson has been class for much of the season.

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:Cipriani is still a massive fruitcake

Like that a lot!

Charlie

LondonTiger wrote:

robshaw4england wrote:Therefore, it would not be impossible to vouch for a recall for 'the messiah' himself: Danny Cipriani. After watching the Sale vs Scarlets game he was very impressive, his goal kicking, passing, game management, pace and eye for the gap made him the stand out player on the pitch. He has been unfortunate that he has been playing behind a weak pack this season. If he had joined a side such as Northampton or Bath he could have been much closer to an international recall.
Thoughts?

My word he must have improved in the second half.

In the first he was totally and utterly incompetent - the worst display I have seen from a supposed international 10 in many a while. In defence Sale tried to hide him, which then caused other problems as props were covering his defensive duties. When asked to tackle he ran away, when trying to field a kick under any sort of pressure he panicked like Corporal Jones. His passing was hurried and inaccurate whenever he saw an opponent. He missed penalty kicks to touch and a couple of easy ones at goal.

I switched off at that point sure that no-one would be calling for him to be recalled.

Glad to hear he got better - even if that was Scarlets 3rd team.

I was about to say the same thing.

The moment I realised he wasn't any where International grade rugby was when he avoided diving on the loose ball, and Scarlets scored from it.

Rugby is a game where your body is put on the line, first and foremost.

He's got great attacking potential and flair, but he has to prove he wants to play. At the moment, it all seems a bit lacklustre.

I think England would worry a lot more if Dan Cole was injured. Wilson is not anywhere near the same standard.

Andy Goode FTW!

mawhis wrote:Andy Goode FTW!

I would rather see him start for England than Danny Boy.

Myler of Saints was the Saxons 10 for a number of seasons.

In my mind - current 10's in pecking order

Farrell
Flood
Burns
Ford
Myler
Lamb

If above are injured - then
Charlie Hodgeson
J. Wilkinson
Cipriani

If Faz, Flood and Burns were injured forgetting what I want I would imagine that Lancaster would try to persuade Hodgson or JW to do a temporary job. Better that than stick someone who would be out of their depth in there when it they wouldn't be seeing a cap again for quite a while. I'm not sure that would be great for their development.

I still think that the worst thing that happened to Cipriani was getting dropped back in against NZ straight after coming back from that horrific leg break with no other game time. Confidence shot, media and boards against him. That was because of other injuries.

Other names you could add to that list would be Sam Vesty, Shane Geraghty or Rory Clegg.

mawhis - Tom May!

Not to mention guys that supposedly have versatility -

36
and I think I heard that Eastmond has or wants a crack at the 10 shirt!

What ever happend to Cleg, he was on the arisen for a while. Is he still playing?

As for Myler and Lamb? No i dont think so i dont think Ford should be chucked in the deep end either. But if push comes to shove, Then maybe England might have to rely on Ford.

Many apologies to Tom May, who is listed as a centre on Wikipedia, which is why I forgot him!

majesticimperialman wrote:What ever happend to Cleg, he was on the arisen for a while. Is he still playing?
As for Myler and Lamb? No i dont think so i dont think Ford should be chucked in the deep end either. But if push comes to shove, Then maybe England might have to rely on Ford.

He didn't start enough at Quins, and never seemed to shine when he had his chances when NEv was off, or benched in. Then we hired Botica last off-season who has shone in every game he's been involved in, which knocked R Cleg down the pecking order.

He was loaned to Leeds until the end of the season, with the option to stay there at the end. Shame really, I hope he regains confidence and form at Leeds.

My FH pecking order
Farrell
Burns
Flood
Myler
Ford
Lamb

If above are injured - then bring back
Hodgson
Wilkinson
Andy Goode

If they are all injured then move Alex Goode (would maybe put higher but like him at FB)

Then look at players from championship

Then and only then Cipriani

mawhis wrote:Other names you could add to that list would be Sam Vesty, Shane Geraghty or Rory Clegg.

You are right they all come way above Cipriani.

What about Botica / from Harlequins Evans understudy has played good for them this season and has pedigree.

rosbif wrote:What about Botica / from Harlequins Evans understudy has played good for them this season and has pedigree.

Although he has a UK passport and qualifies for quins as a local player - I have a feeling that as he also has a NZ passport then by IRB rules he does not qualify till he has served residency. May be wrong though.

twoeightnine wrote:

I still think that the worst thing that happened to Cipriani was getting dropped back in against NZ straight after coming back from that horrific leg break with no other game time. Confidence shot, media and boards against him. That was because of other injuries.

Hi comeback for England was against the Pacific Islands, a game England won by a distance. He then played against Aus and SA. he was a replacement for the final test of the series against NZ. Prior to that he had played in a couple of club games, so it was a long way from chucking him straight back in against New Zealand ..albeit a fairly rushed return (any different to Wilkinson who was expected to play everytime he was able to get out of his wheelchair)
Cirpriani himself had long been insisting he would be fit for these games despite the initial prognosis he wouldnt. A quick google shows plenty of interviews where hes talking up his availability and desire to play. He was hardly pushed into it, indeed following his later tantrums its quite possible leaving him out wouldve let to a massive sulk a few months earlier.

It may have been too early for him after the injury, but then his problems with charge downs and tackling had already manifested themselves in the 6 nations, but his wider game (espec vs Ireland) and the easier matches enabled that to be covered up.

In hindsight it was a mistake for him to be selected as starter for the Autumn internationals (we couldve ruined Floods career instead!), ironically Johnson mistakenly risk taking with his young flashy players, that didnt help him for sure. But it was his own reactions and own decisions to that drop in form that led to his long term exclusion. He chose to avoid the Saxons tour against the England teams advice. He chose to quit the Premiership (including an extended break ) despite being told it would harm his chances to play for England and despite being given a set plan to get back in from the cold.
So what we have now s the same player with the same flaws rather than one whos developed into a cracking all round international force. His own personality and choices has as much to do with that as the injuries ( Floods has more than his fair share of those). He never bought into the system and has consistently not taken good advice from those with his best interests at heart (including Josh Lewsey chinning him as a reminder to tackle). Instead we see a player whos own coach and team owner rants about in the press.

That cant entirely be lain at the door of a decision to back him and his talent in an Autumn series 4 and half years ago which he was more than a willing participant in.

IIRC Botica was born in England ,which is why he has a GB passport.

Peter S-B, I'm not blaming what happened to Cipriani on something four years ago but I do think it was a contributing factor to the tail spin that he has ended up in. Clearly he is someone who needs to be managed carefully and I think that he was hugely knocked by that. He is clearly a player who carries a big ego and I think playing against nations like Australia and SA (my memory wasn't quite correct) when he wasn't ready was a bad decision forced by injuries which has worked out badly.

Given that we are talking here about throwing someone young and possibly out of form in here (Ford) it can make for some interesting comparisons. Not suggesting they are the same but I think you can really set a young player back.

Surely the most logical choice, should this happen, is Charlie Hodgson or somebody else, Stephen Myler? Why Cipriani? He's still rubbish. I can't believe you would reference your choice to a low standard competition where Sale played a team with their first 26 players either rested, injured or with their international team...

Botica was born in NZ and brought up in Wales. Despite his UK passport, he is not EQ yet, his years here were not immediately prior to playing for Quins and his family are not English.

How would two flyhalfs who avoid tackling and running get injured?

viewtothegym wrote:How would two flyhalfs who avoid tackling and running get injured?

I don't know. How would two flyhalfs who avoid tackling and running get injured?

Flood runs and Farrell tackles

Farrell's a fecken great tackler. He's a seriously tough youngfellah for his age.

Mentally and physically.

viewtothegym wrote:How would two flyhalfs who avoid tackling and running get injured?

How is Preistland geting on?

Has Steenson ever been capped for the Wolfhounds? He's been here for donkeys and could certainly do a job if the top 4 were injured. (Don't laugh! He's blydi brilliant!!!!!)