Wales vs Ireland - Six Nations

First topic message reminder :

Date - Saturday 2nd February 2013, KO 13:30
Venue - Millennium Stadium, Cardiff Wales

Coverage - Watch live on BBC One NI, BBC One HD
Internet - http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/
Radio - BBC Radio Ulster
Replay the Game - BBC iPlayer

Wales Team

15 L Halfpenny
14 A Cuthbert
13 J Davies
12 J Roberts
11 G North
10 D Biggar
09 M Phillips
01 G Jenkins
02 M Rees
03 A Jones
04 A Coombs
05 I Evans
06 A Shingler
08 T Faletau
07 S Warburton (capt)

Replacements

16 K Owens
17 C Mitchell
18 P James
19 O Kohn
20 J Tipuric
21 L Williams
22 S Williams
23 J Hook


Ireland Team

01 Cian Healy
02 Rory Best
03 Mike Ross
03 Donnacha Ryan
05 Mike McCarthy
06 Peter O'Mahony
07 Sean O'Brien
08 Jamie Heaslip (c)
09 Conor Murray
10 Jonathan Sexton
11 Simon Zebo
12 Gordon Darcy
13 Brian O'Driscoll
14 Craig Gilroy
15 Rob Kearney

Replacements

16 Sean Cronin
17 Dave Kilcoyne
18 Declan Fitzpatrick
19 Donnacha O'Callaghan
20 Chris Henry
21 Eoin Reddan
22 Ronan O'Gara
23 Keith Earls



TOURNAMENT RECORD

MATCH FACTS

HEAD-TO-HEAD
These two nations have clashed on 118 occasions since 1882. Wales have 65 wins; Ireland 47.

Wales have won their last three Tests against Ireland; two in the Six Nations, one at the 2011 Rugby World Cup.

Since 1985 Ireland have won 10 and drawn one in Cardiff, with Wales picking up just two wins.

Legendary Irish fly-half Ronan O'Gara has scored 100 points in 14 appearances against Wales. O'Gara and centre Brian
O'Driscoll are the record caps holders for Ireland against Wales.

WALES

Have lost their last seven games, their worst run since 2003 (when they lost 10 on the spin).
Should Ireland win this fixture, Wales would have lost five consecutive home games for the first time in their history (they lost four at home during that 10-defeat run back in 2003).
Have scored just seven tries in their last seven matches.
The Wales pack retained possession at 96% of their own put-ins during last season's Six Nations. However, they did win just 22 scrums across the whole tournament - fewer than any other side.
Alex Cuthbert made seven clean breaks in last season's Six Nations, more than any other player.

IRELAND

Prior to the win over Argentina in their final match of 2012 Ireland had lost five straight Tests, scoring just two tries in the process (this excludes XV versus Fiji). It was their worst run since 1998.
Ireland were top points scorers in last year's Six Nations, racking up 121 in total (an average of over 24 per match). This included 13 tries, the most they had scored in the competition since 2007.


Games played between Ireland and Wales: 118 18.13%
Games won by Wales: 65 55.08%
Games lost by Wales: 47 39.83%
Games drawn: 6 5.08%

Most wins in a row for Wales over Ireland: 5

Most wins in a row for Ireland over Wales: 5

Average Pts Per Game 13

Heaviest Defeat 3rd of Feb 2002 Ireland 54 - 10 Wales

Recent Record between Ireland and Wales

2012 - Ireland 21-23 Wales
2011 - Ireland 10-22 Wales (RWC)
2011 - Wales 19-13 Ireland
2010 - Ireland 27-12 Wales
2009 - Wales 15-17 Ireland
2008 - Ireland 12-16 Wales

Gone for a Wales win. Nothing to do with selection or demoting Trimble and Henry. Still would fancy wales with those guys in the team. I would just regard the Argentina game as a one off until proven otherwise and Wales will be very very angry after the AIs

The Welsh were born angry Stand. Feic em. Its not our fault they are 2nd-div English. Its theirs for accepting it.

Either way, its time to get back to doing them on their patch, as of old. Used be a Shay.

And we will. Even with two token Ulstuurmen in the team.

It will work. Despite the coach.

Believe.

Permian1988 wrote:

Morgannwg wrote:

wales606 wrote:Warburton to start at 6, Tips 7 according to some Blues people

If so then it is fundamental that Kohn and Phillips (he will start) start for Wales. Do you think Faletau fits in well with that back-row though?

JUst to chip in morg. I would like a real heavy front 5 with kohn and evans 2nd row. James , hibbard and jones starting.

WE could hammer the ireland scrum.

I agree. While Healy is decent and probably the Lions FAV at LH he can be got at. The combination of a technically gifted 3 who in addition to his own considerable balast will have the monster that is Kohn up his harse driving 40 stone through the a TH will ruin Healy eventually. For me Kohn must start, Ryan fills in admirably at SR but that is all he is doing. Kohn is a monster playing with the confidence that success brings. England smashed Ireland by destroying their scrum, if Howley is brave we might as well.

What am I saying Howley will do f-all and we will lose

Bless em.

I think that Kidney, in selecting SOB and O'Mahoney, has decided that Best, Healy, D'Arcy and Bod will pick up the slack on the ground. Our back row might be unbalanced but we needed to balance our pack. The big ball carrying forwards we have are Healy, O'Mahoney and SOB. Henry would have left us lacking in that department. I think it was always going to be a 50-50 call between O'Mahoney, SOB and Henry and Kidney has decided to try to use his back row to attack the backs and free up space for the outsie backs.

If we included Henry and Trimble, as some have suggested, we would be vulnerable in areas we are now stronger and stronger in areas we are now vulnerable. One of Trimble's strengths is running through the middle which would have been negated by Davies and Roberts strength. Henry would have allowed the Welsh defense to line up on our other carriers and render them ineffectual. Its all a matter of deciding which areas we are going to be weaker.

Gibson wrote:The Welsh were born angry Stand. Feic em. Its not our fault they are 2nd-div English. Its theirs for accepting it.

Either way, its time to get back to doing them on their patch, as of old. Used be a Shay.

And we will. Even with two token Ulstuurmen in the team.

It will work. Despite the coach.

Believe.

Unfurtunately Master G you are going to feel a lot of angry roth on Saturday and I feel this will be a seminal day for Ireland. A big defeat will serve you well in the long run both from a coaching perspective and from the fact that BOD and Darcy are yesterdays men. The statistics actually suggest that normality has returned to this fixture over the past few years - However, when Wales play Ireland "normality" is the last thing we can expect. The dragon is breathing fire and the ball boys have been well versed. As a Munster man I wish you well for the weekend but I would urge you to look at the bigger picture when hopefully Ireland can get back to being an exciting and abrasive force. You know us celts can get blinded by emotion so I just thought I'd bring the usual balance and perspective to the thread

You shouldn't tease him about his secret adoration of Munster. Is it Copenhagen Syndrome or something?

New balls please!

Should be a cracker... or could be a slow bakin' potata. Hoping it's the former.

The Wales pack will be out to prove their worth in the light of the current injury holes but I believe Ireland's pack is a lot more settled and will be more than handful for the Welsh defence.

I haven't seen much of recent HC/Pro 12 form but the gist I'm getting is that Ireland is on the up more so than Wales on a provincial level mostly and they'll be keen to bite back after recent losses to Wales.

However, we come back to the same age-old questions:

Can this success be delivered by the national team in the MS cauldron?

Or can Wales somehow muster up enough 'home town' positive energy to counter or even surpass an Irish team which will be busting itself to show their latest derivation of 'know-how rugby' via their current form and success on the European/provincial rugby field?

Glas a du wrote:You shouldn't tease him about his secret adoration of Munster. Is it Copenhagen Syndrome or something?

Copenhagen Syndrome was a Dutch prog band from the seventies. Gibbo played the spoons on their classic album 'Have a Word'.

Sometimes he played them so fast it left burn marks, or that's what he told Mrs G anyway...

So how confident are you guys? More so than Gibbo.... deep down?

You could pull it off... depending on whether they were silver, wooden or plastic spoons.

thureb wrote:I think that Kidney, in selecting SOB and O'Mahoney, has decided that Best, Healy, D'Arcy and Bod will pick up the slack on the ground. Our back row might be unbalanced but we needed to balance our pack. The big ball carrying forwards we have are Healy, O'Mahoney and SOB. Henry would have left us lacking in that department. I think it was always going to be a 50-50 call between O'Mahoney, SOB and Henry and Kidney has decided to try to use his back row to attack the backs and free up space for the outsie backs.

If we included Henry and Trimble, as some have suggested, we would be vulnerable in areas we are now stronger and stronger in areas we are now vulnerable. One of Trimble's strengths is running through the middle which would have been negated by Davies and Roberts strength. Henry would have allowed the Welsh defense to line up on our other carriers and render them ineffectual. Its all a matter of deciding which areas we are going to be weaker.

You lack ball carriers and so leave out your only winger (nay, only back) who has the size to truck it up. If ball carrying is such a preoccupation for Kidney then why pick O'Callaghan over Henderson on the bench? One is dynamic, the other isn't. We went other. I suspect O'Mahoney is in for his line out prowess

So much hinges now on the makeup of our pack, Breaker.

Howley has the advantage of knowing Ireland's XV in advance so there'll be no excuse for a duff selection.

LP,

Like said we know Warburton will start and I reckon we are at least looking at

James Hibbard A Jones
?? ??
Warburton (6 or 7) Faletau ?? (depending where Warburton plays)

I reckon Ireland must be due a bit of luck against Wales at this stage. I think we'll edge it.

That front row's a given, I think.

When is the Welsh team announced?

Leaning towards Wales just now especially with the Weather conditions forecast.

Wales should have the better scrum, better place kicker and better kicking game. They also have bigger ball carriers spread throughout the team. All of this will give them a huge advantage if the conditions are poor.

Our back 3 looks very exciting and if we can get them ball in space then they could cause big problems for Wales but defensively our backs could be exposed, especially if we can't get parity up front.

The big worry for me is the scrum. Our second row pairing are very lightweight, as is the backrow, Ross hasn't been in great form and there is no real backup tight head unless Fitzpatrick can stay fit. Everything hinges on the scrum for me.

The team's announced tomorrow, Rodders.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:That front row's a given, I think.

A lot will obviously depend on Evans and R Jones if one or both are fit then thats a big boost for us. If both are fit I would be tempted to put Evans and one of the young guns in 2nd row and Jones at 6.

I'm not sure we should play Ian Evans even if he's fit. He's had no rugby for ages and it's a bit much to expect him to be up to Test level just like that.

Rodders,

With regards kickers I thought Sexton was pretty damn reliable or am I wrong.

I guess we have the advantage in that we should (hopefully) have Halfpenny and Biggar on field at same time, who is Sextons' back up?

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:I'm not sure we should play Ian Evans even if he's fit. He's had no rugby for ages and it's a bit much to expect him to be up to Test level just like that.

LP,

I would normally agree but I do think its a case of needs must, maybe if R Jones and Shingler are fit then case could be made for Jones and young gun with Shingler at 6

rodders wrote:When is the Welsh team announced?

Leaning towards Wales just now especially with the Weather conditions forecast.

Wales should have the better scrum, better place kicker and better kicking game. They also have bigger ball carriers spread throughout the team. All of this will give them a huge advantage if the conditions are poor.

Our back 3 looks very exciting and if we can get them ball in space then they could cause big problems for Wales but defensively our backs could be exposed, especially if we can't get parity up front.

The big worry for me is the scrum. Our second row pairing are very lightweight, as is the backrow, Ross hasn't been in great form and there is no real backup tight head unless Fitzpatrick can stay fit. Everything hinges on the scrum for me.

Is the Welsh scrum that much better? Jones back is a hugh boost, but they were beaten up by the Argentina front row i thought, and Ireland looked after them pretty well. And that was with the same props and locks as we're starting at the weekend, with Rory Best added in.

Looking at the two backlines it seems to be a case of 'Welsh Muscle' Vs 'Irish Flair'.

Considering the Welsh rugby team has such a strong tradition of flair, attacking creativity and moments of individual brillance it seems something of a turnaround.

Does this bother Welsh fans? Is it just as pleasing to see North steamroll someone as watching Williams jink out of impossible situations?

It is intersesting that the player who has been likened in style (and it is obviously far too early to compare them) to Shane Williams is Gilroy.

James Hook, probably the stand out flair player of recent times doesn't seem to be anywhere near anyones starting XV. A sign of the times?

bedfordwelsh wrote:Rodders,

With regards kickers I thought Sexton was pretty damn reliable or am I wrong.

I guess we have the advantage in that we should (hopefully) have Halfpenny and Biggar on field at same time, who is Sextons' back up?

No Sexton is good but can have off days and as a tactical kicker I think Biggar and Halfpenny will have the edge, certainly in terms of range. ROG is on the bench but imo doesn't have the range or reliability he once had in kicking from hand.

Tactical kicking from hand is an area were Wales have really dominated us over the last few meetings I think.

Mickado wrote:

rodders wrote:When is the Welsh team announced?

Leaning towards Wales just now especially with the Weather conditions forecast.

Wales should have the better scrum, better place kicker and better kicking game. They also have bigger ball carriers spread throughout the team. All of this will give them a huge advantage if the conditions are poor.

Our back 3 looks very exciting and if we can get them ball in space then they could cause big problems for Wales but defensively our backs could be exposed, especially if we can't get parity up front.

The big worry for me is the scrum. Our second row pairing are very lightweight, as is the backrow, Ross hasn't been in great form and there is no real backup tight head unless Fitzpatrick can stay fit. Everything hinges on the scrum for me.

Is the Welsh scrum that much better? Jones back is a hugh boost, but they were beaten up by the Argentina front row i thought, and Ireland looked after them pretty well. And that was with the same props and locks as we're starting at the weekend, with Rory Best added in.

I fear they might be Mick, especially with Ryan and McCarthy packing down behind the props. Healy struggles against Jones at the best of times so it is an area were they could really attack us.

rodders wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:Rodders,

With regards kickers I thought Sexton was pretty damn reliable or am I wrong.

I guess we have the advantage in that we should (hopefully) have Halfpenny and Biggar on field at same time, who is Sextons' back up?

No Sexton is good but can have off days and as a tactical kicker I think Biggar and Halfpenny will have the edge, certainly in terms of range. ROG is on the bench but imo doesn't have the range or reliability he once had in kicking from hand.

Tactical kicking from hand is an area were Wales have really dominated us over the last few meetings I think.

Is there anyone on the field who could take over place kicking if Sexton was just having bad day with boot that didn't warrant bringing Biggar on?

bedfordwelsh wrote:

rodders wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:Rodders,

With regards kickers I thought Sexton was pretty damn reliable or am I wrong.

I guess we have the advantage in that we should (hopefully) have Halfpenny and Biggar on field at same time, who is Sextons' back up?

No Sexton is good but can have off days and as a tactical kicker I think Biggar and Halfpenny will have the edge, certainly in terms of range. ROG is on the bench but imo doesn't have the range or reliability he once had in kicking from hand.

Tactical kicking from hand is an area were Wales have really dominated us over the last few meetings I think.

Is there anyone on the field who could take over place kicking if Sexton was just having bad day with boot that didn't warrant bringing Biggar on?

No. Rob Kearney would be the only option but I don't see that happening.

Bringing ROG on I meant lol

I guess then hab=ving our two on field would be one advantage

Its crazy that kearney hasnt been primed as a second/long range kicker. Very near sighted by both Ireland and leinster management. Drives me mad. He has a massive boot and is very accurate. No reason why he couldnt do as good a job as 1/2p does for Wales.

Who's the referee for Saturday? I think I read that it was Romain Poite but I can't find it online.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Who's the referee for Saturday? I think I read that it was Romain Poite but I can't find it online.

It is Poite...........worth 10 points to Wales before we start

John Cregan wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Who's the referee for Saturday? I think I read that it was Romain Poite but I can't find it online.

It is Poite...........worth 10 points to Wales before we start

Well there you go then. Head says Wales to win this one and us to (hopefully) win our remaining games and hope a few other results go our way....

Heart still yearns for the slam and hopes for the rub of the green on Saturday ......

rapidsnowman wrote:Looking at the two backlines it seems to be a case of 'Welsh Muscle' Vs 'Irish Flair'.

Considering the Welsh rugby team has such a strong tradition of flair, attacking creativity and moments of individual brillance it seems something of a turnaround.

Does this bother Welsh fans? Is it just as pleasing to see North steamroll someone as watching Williams jink out of impossible situations?

It is intersesting that the player who has been likened in style (and it is obviously far too early to compare them) to Shane Williams is Gilroy.

James Hook, probably the stand out flair player of recent times doesn't seem to be anywhere near anyones starting XV. A sign of the times?

Rapid - you are assuming so much - Go back to last years game and watch the flair to go with that power for Foxy Davies's try. Forget Mcfadden being bounced into the south stand - look at the soft hands and the subtlety of the offload at pace - These giants also posess grace and poise and they are coming to blow Ireland away

rodders wrote:

John Cregan wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Who's the referee for Saturday? I think I read that it was Romain Poite but I can't find it online.

It is Poite...........worth 10 points to Wales before we start

Well there you go then. Head says Wales to win this one and us to (hopefully) win our remaining games and hope a few other results go our way....

Heart still yearns for the slam and hopes for the rub of the green on Saturday ......

Rodders - with my new found Irish status I am considering changing my 606 name to EmeraldGuby - Watcha think?

Well change it quick Guby otherwise you'll miss out on the fun slaggin kidders and the provincial warfare on here on Saturday night!

RubyGuby wrote:

rapidsnowman wrote:Looking at the two backlines it seems to be a case of 'Welsh Muscle' Vs 'Irish Flair'.

Considering the Welsh rugby team has such a strong tradition of flair, attacking creativity and moments of individual brillance it seems something of a turnaround.

Does this bother Welsh fans? Is it just as pleasing to see North steamroll someone as watching Williams jink out of impossible situations?

It is intersesting that the player who has been likened in style (and it is obviously far too early to compare them) to Shane Williams is Gilroy.

James Hook, probably the stand out flair player of recent times doesn't seem to be anywhere near anyones starting XV. A sign of the times?

Rapid - you are assuming so much - Go back to last years game and watch the flair to go with that power for Foxy Davies's try. Forget Mcfadden being bounced into the south stand - look at the soft hands and the subtlety of the offload at pace - These giants also posess grace and poise and they are coming to blow Ireland away

Sure what would a Munster man know about grace and poise?

Keep running Golden, you look like Zebo trying to catch up with George - It's gonna be a nailbighter - probably ugly but we both need the win, us more than you as you can redeem yourselves V England whilst we'll be well and truly fecked if we lose

Its not keeping up with him so much as getting out of his way that id be worried about. Hopefully the lads feel differently on saturday

rodders wrote:

John Cregan wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Who's the referee for Saturday? I think I read that it was Romain Poite but I can't find it online.

It is Poite...........worth 10 points to Wales before we start

Well there you go then. Head says Wales to win this one and us to (hopefully) win our remaining games and hope a few other results go our way....

Heart still yearns for the slam and hopes for the rub of the green on Saturday ......

Good to see you getting your excuses in early Rodders Lets hope for a great game with the right outcome - for the home side of course lol

I have extremely low expectations of this 6N's for Wales.If we get two wins I will be surprised.Ireland by about 10 points at best,could be even worse if selection is pants.

Taff,

I am like you in that if we don't get a win (of any sorts) this weekend then we will be battling for spoon and as we would then have our (likely) two main competitiors away I fear for us.

Right can we get some agreement as to who the chippy underdog is here....

Us lol

Ireland fans don't like Poite then? I was kinda hoping Kaplan would be refereeing, with Peter Allan helping him out.

bedfordwelsh wrote:Us lol

Feic off we're worse than you.....

The bookies have Wales odds on for the win - what the feck do they know

Taffineastbourne wrote:Ireland by about 10 points at best,could be even worse if selection is pants.

I don't know about that, Taff, our defence is usually good and when we lose it tends not to be by much.



I've jinxed us now, haven't I?

LP,

Noooooooooooooooo thats well and truly fecked it now damn you lol

I can see this game going one of two ways...

1/ Kidney is smack on, his ball carrying options will destroy our underbelly, then the wider boys of Gilroy/Zebo will score for fun - Ireland by 7+

2/ Kidneys got it all wrong, Wales ground work will strangle Irish posession, the ball carriers will be ineffective as the ball will be slow and useless - Wales by 1-3.

So big Irish win or narrow welsh win, the scary part is with the 2 packs facing off, for the first time in a long time the Irish have a clear advantage up front and the game is in their hands!