Change needed....Wales

Not the first time I have suggested what I am about to suggest. It was met be by comments about me being reactionary. Well 6 months further on and my view remains the same.

Wales' coaching team needs to change.

Gatland who is known as a dictator has 3 weaklings under his ever growing shadow. People will point to success in Grandslams and the World cup but as many know the majority of this story is one of inconsistency and a lack of imagination.

Wales' gameplan has been the same for the last 6 years. It was tweaked slightly for the World cup only for Wales to return back to type. Gatland apparently has this mantra over the players though it seems, NONE of his other coaching staff seem to have.

Where does this lead? To a same old same old gameplan, a complete lack of imagination and a team, shorne of its only leader, low on confidence and looking for a first win in 9 matches.

People may point to the narrow losses against Australia. Really? A team completely descimated by injury. Please.

Gatlands job with the Lions has pinpointed the fact that while short-term success with new young players is only followed by a team low on confidence, lacking quality coaching and inspiration. Howley and co's lack of understanding of the teams current frailties only highlights these points.

A team possessing such young players' have completely lost faith in the coaching team. Can you blame them? For me we need a clear out of the coaching team in its entireity. Gatland can stay. But he needs smooth operators who will challenge his authority and gameplan and inspire the players to greatness.

WRU get your money out. Scour the Earth for coaches with experience, balls & invention.

Start with Leinsters Schmidt as backs coach please.

Amen

All good points and Howley has never filled me with confidence but would someone like Schmidt want to be anything other than the top man?

Morning bedford, That is something that may be the case. But my thoughts on this, is would you get his influence on the creativity of the team if he was anything other than attack coach.

Smichdt is an excellent coach and Gatland and him could work in tandem.

I think the term backs coach is often misleading. The best teams in the world have attack cooaches that blend forward and back play. Wales often look disjointed in transition between back and foward play as if they were two seperate entities.

What you think?

Yh I think we are to rigid in the approach and whilst its been said before but they are to stuck to the numbers on their back.

Why not JD and Roberts swap on occasions or when Halfpenny and Liam Williams played etc.

Lets say Hook and Biggar started at 10 and 12 then swap about during game try keep opposition thinking etc.

Everyone knows when Roberts gets ball hes going to smash it up

bedfordwelsh wrote:Yh I think we are to rigid in the approach and whilst its been said before but they are to stuck to the numbers on their back.

Why not JD and Roberts swap on occasions or when Halfpenny and Liam Williams played etc.

Lets say Hook and Biggar started at 10 and 12 then swap about during game try keep opposition thinking etc.

Everyone knows when Roberts gets ball hes going to smash it up

Yes it is very true. What bemuses me is that now we have a 7 that is Martyn Williams & Sam Warburton is why we dont play him. Yes he doesnt have the size but I watch him every opportunity possible because he makes things happen. He carries the ball, has great football ability, fantastic hands and is very clever at the breakdown.

Warburton needs to lose the captaincy. I would give it to Phillips. A player who won't lie down.

In regards to hook and biggar. I think Hook is a player who is finished at international level. Neither a world class 10/12/13/15. We need to start looking more at beck and roberts. Whisper it queitly. Hensons passing was the best in international rugby from 12.

Forwards attacked to close to the ruck yesterday. Made it easy for ireland to put numbers in the tackle. As for Evans running into contact higher than the Statue of Liberty, well, that cant be forgiven.

Problem is a number of areas...

Firstly Howley seems to posess such a small amount of tactical nous it's crazy. Before the Argy and Samoan games I remember hearing his interview and commenting that he was highlighting the wrong same old tired stereotypes of them being physical, needing to target the set peice etc, then yesterdsay morning all he seemed to want to talk about is the Irish wing threat and BOD, WTF didn't this guy get that it was all about stopping Ireland at source, stopping their lineout drive and scrum, then not allowing the ball carriers to come around the corner and presenting Murray with an armchair ride ala 1st half???

Is this all Howleys fault though? He stopped playing and his mates gave him a backs coach position for a season and a half before being offered the position with Wales. In his very short career where has he learnt how to tactically assess teams, how has he shown he can make changes to effect outcomes? He hasn't and thats why we saw the same old faces in the front and back row, when someone who doesn't have an answer they revert to type, and we can all agree that team selection was 12 months old!!

Now we have the same issues with Mark Jones, backs coach for a little while then BANG, promoted to international honours!! How scary would it be to see Mark Jones lead us out in the summer? Then why should Howley be any different?

I could name 20 names that have a far better understanding of being the top dog, 20 names that have head coach experience, a proven track record and some actual tactical nous!

IMHO Kidney made a mistake in his selection too, but Howleys mistakes were far more dangerous, they were born of not wanting to make any decisions at all!!

thebluesmancometh wrote:Problem is a number of areas...

Firstly Howley seems to posess such a small amount of tactical nous it's crazy. Before the Argy and Samoan games I remember hearing his interview and commenting that he was highlighting the wrong same old tired stereotypes of them being physical, needing to target the set peice etc, then yesterdsay morning all he seemed to want to talk about is the Irish wing threat and BOD, WTF didn't this guy get that it was all about stopping Ireland at source, stopping their lineout drive and scrum, then not allowing the ball carriers to come around the corner and presenting Murray with an armchair ride ala 1st half???

Is this all Howleys fault though? He stopped playing and his mates gave him a backs coach position for a season and a half before being offered the position with Wales. In his very short career where has he learnt how to tactically assess teams, how has he shown he can make changes to effect outcomes? He hasn't and thats why we saw the same old faces in the front and back row, when someone who doesn't have an answer they revert to type, and we can all agree that team selection was 12 months old!!

Now we have the same issues with Mark Jones, backs coach for a little while then BANG, promoted to international honours!! How scary would it be to see Mark Jones lead us out in the summer? Then why should Howley be any different?

I could name 20 names that have a far better understanding of being the top dog, 20 names that have head coach experience, a proven track record and some actual tactical nous!

IMHO Kidney made a mistake in his selection too, but Howleys mistakes were far more dangerous, they were born of not wanting to make any decisions at all!!

Bluesman...I agree.

I have to say though can we expect anything to come of this. The WRU have always appointed this mantra as jobs for the boys as well as places for the boys throughout the age grade, regional and premiership system.

Will we see any changes? Can we force any changes?

In fact Schmidt and Nigel Davies (Gloucester) would do better jobs as attack coach.

Well Schmidt wouldnt be interested in an interim backs position, and thb would Nigel want to be associated with this coaching regime?

Howley clearly has some technical ability, and the backline is proven scary with him around, but implimenting your bosses gameplan and then trying to concoct your own are 2 different things.

I expect to see Howley under pressure next week, talk about the French scrum, flair and inconsistency pre game and revert to the same old names who are letting the team down right now... Jenkins, Rees, Warburton, maybe try to rush in Ryan Jones, and one of our injured locks!

What I would rather see is Howley to say 'right we're going to France, we're on a losing streak, we need a game changer. My side is here to score tries and win 58 - 57'
Then see names like James (preferGill though) Hibbard, Tipuric, Hook, stick with Coombs and maybe go for King to partner him (He must be inspired watching Coombs do so well). But expect us to be cautios and nervy!

Bluesman...

Sorry I didnt make myself clear. I would like Schmidt as head coach and Davies as attack coach.

I agree. Next week we should really go for it.... my team, if all well and fit....

1. James
2. Hibbard
3. Jones
4. Coombs
5. Kohn
6. Warburton
7. Tupuric
8. Faletau
9. Phillips
10. Biggar
11. North
12. Beck
13. Roberts
14. 1/2p
15. Byrne

16. Owens
17. Bevington
18. Mitchel
19. Evans
20. King/Jones
21. Williams
22. Hook
23. Cuthbert

Mind you I could change one or two there based on injuries. I think Howley will do as you say though.

I'd go similar except JD2 would definately be in my team, especially as there are still question marks over Beck at this level. JD2 seems to be getting flack for 2 passes which were massively overrun, and out of character (not like he was the only thrower of an air pass)

Also as much as I like Byrne I think 1/2p was once again top class, and I also think that if Cuthberts defence is that pathetic how is giving Walker a shot a risk?

I'd like to see Hook in at 10 too.

James
Hibbard
Jones
Coombs
King
Warburton
Tipuric
Falatau
Phillips
Hook
North
JD2
Roberts
L. Williams
1/2p

I thought James and Owens were good when they came on (although the lineout fell apart) but what do you expect when Evans went off for Kohn who found out the calls last week?!

i want the same team this week that i wanted for the ireland game, rewarding coombs with a bench spot, will it happen though? probably not.

1. James
2. Hibbard (Rees if unfit)
3. Jones
4. Evans
5. Kohn
6. Warbs
7. Tuperic
8. Faletau
9. Phillips
10. Biggar
11. North
12. Roberts
13. JD2
14. Cuthbert
15. Halfpenny

16 Rees (owens)
17. Bevington
18. Mitchell
19. Coombs
20. Ryan Jones
21. Ll. Williams
22. Hook
23. Byrne

This may as well be the Wales 23 for France thread then. I don't think Biggar did badly, apart from taking a damned age with that kick, but it could be worth starting with Hook as France is his playground. He could do a better job. Same with Byrne and shift Halfpenny to wing in place of North. Cuthbert should be the worse of the two wingers but his work and strike rates say otherwise. Coombs also did well, but I'd be tempted to swap him with Kohn so he can help stand up to the French pack. Shingler looks set to miss this game through injury but Hibbard and Ryan Jones are said to be coming back in.

James, Rees, Jones, Kohn, Evans, Warburton, Tipuric, Faletau - Phillips, Hook, Cuthbert, Roberts, Davies, Halfpenny, Byrne. Bench - Hibbard, Jenkins, Mitchell, Coombs, R.Jones, Williams, Biggar, North/S.Williams.

Morgannwg wrote:This may as well be the Wales 23 for France thread then. I don't think Biggar did badly, apart from taking a damned age with that kick, but it could be worth starting with Hook as France is his playground. He could do a better job. Same with Byrne and shift Halfpenny to wing in place of North. Cuthbert should be the worse of the two wingers but his work and strike rates say otherwise. Coombs also did well, but I'd be tempted to swap him with Kohn so he can help stand up to the French pack. Shingler looks set to miss this game through injury but Hibbard and Ryan Jones are said to be coming back in.

James, Rees, Jones, Kohn, Evans, Warburton, Tipuric, Faletau - Phillips, Hook, Cuthbert, Roberts, Davies, Halfpenny, Byrne. Bench - Hibbard, Jenkins, Mitchell, Coombs, R.Jones, Williams, Biggar, North/S.Williams.

That's probably close to our strongest possible team (on paper at least - it could all fall apart on grass). I'd swap Hibbard for Rees though. We're badly lacking in power 'up front'.

I don't think we lack power with Rees starting. I suppose Hibbard could start but I thought it more sensible to bring him off the bench since he's coming back from injury. It's a strong bench so it actually needs to be unloaded. One thing that annoys me is Wales only seem to bring on the subs when we've 'thrown in the towel' to give those guys a 5 minute workout.

Did you notice Howler cowering in the management box after we were 20 points down? Says it all really.

Anyone notice how rarely the backs ran straight and passed before drawing the man? It was excruciatingly painful to watch.

We definitely need some brains at 12. The passing from JD was also sub standard.

Morgannwg wrote:I don't think we lack power with Rees starting. I suppose Hibbard could start but I thought it more sensible to bring him off the bench since he's coming back from injury. It's a strong bench so it actually needs to be unloaded. One thing that annoys me is Wales only seem to bring on the subs when we've 'thrown in the towel' to give those guys a 5 minute workout.

Did you notice Howler cowering in the management box after we were 20 points down? Says it all really.

It won't make any difference on its own, but Hibbard keeps his legs pumping in contact, commits defenders and gets over the gainline. Rees just isn't that type of player. We are loaded with 'containing/solid/dependable' types up front but don't have anyone who will challenge a decent defence. Maybe if Hibbard carries a bit, Kohn (does he do that?), Tipuric then runs at space (which he's brilliant at) - all of a sudden things might open up and Faletau starts coming in to his own in broken play. Faletau will charge it up all day but if we're just sending him in to collisions then he gets nowhere.

If we persist with the same personnel and tactics that we showed in first half against Ireland, we might as well accept the wooden spoon now. Wouldn't matter who we had in the backs.

i would select the two young williams at center and on one wing from the "bash it up" players of cutherbert north roberts they are all too similar they add more dimensions to the attack and proven a handful i think roberts north cuthbert are overrated and never really delivered on that promise to overwhelm the opponents with their physicality so the experiment should end and remember that wales have been at there best with smarter footballers of the golden ages and recently with shane. look at your best player now is leigh halfpenny.

THE BACKLINE ISN'T THE PROBLEM!!!

The game was lost up front in the first 40, how exactly is changing the backline going to change that?

We have a few backs with flaws, 1/2p's height, Cuthberts defence, but in general if our backs are presented with ball we score and win.

The Cuthbert / North thing interests me. I loved the line Cuthbert took for his try, and certainly he had more of the ball yesterday.

BUT

His defence for the Zebo try was obviously awful, if it was isolated it could be passed over as a single mistake, however it's always been an issue with him. Secondly, the chance he bombed not passing out to Roberts with a 2 on 1 is unforgivable, he just seems blinkered into going himself too much.

Personally I would go for a back 3 of 11.North, 14. Halfpenny, 15.Byrne.

Look I'm not saying changing the backs is the answer. If it was then surely I'd be calling for a new centre partnership... If Byrne, Halfpenny and Hook are in the team then it gives us better options. Halfpenny and Byrne are exceptional under the high ball, have a good boot and are good in attack. JR and JD2 are usually pretty solid when big guys are charging at them. That and actually playing some rugby is how we stand a chance of beating France. Changes in the pack are essential first and for a big French team that involves a chopper at 6, big ball carriers like Kohn, Hibbard and our best LH to start the game.

Lots of posters calling for Hibbard, there was a story amongst the Ospreys Acedemy plays at my Rugby club on Friday night that Hibbard was fit to play against Ireland but was not picked! He certainly catches the eye playing for the Ospreys but is yet to show form at International level, and also has more than the occasional brain fart. Rees is the most physical of the three and Owen certainly gets around the park. Apart from some dodgy ref calls at the scrum and some confusion with the calls at two successive lineouts (probably down to Kohn being new to the squad) both hookers played OK.

I would go with James at 1, Kohn in place of Coombes, Ryan at 6. Behind the scrum, I would stick with Biggar but try to get him to vary the depth of attack, Wales 3/4s were too flat across the field so no one was running onto the ball. I would also contemplate dropping Cuthbert and picking Byrne at 15.

Tough on Cuthbert, he is rightly being blamed for the Zebo try, but look again at the pass that O'Driscoll "bent" around him! The explaination is simple, it was at least 2 yaers forward!

I didn't think Kohn got onto the pitch...

Sea,

I think its very harsh on Coombs if he gets dropped and if you put R Jones in at No6 then that means Warburton stays at No7 because we know he won't be dropped.

Dropping Coombs would be harsh but he (eventually) had a succesfull debut, is he ready to go to France? Or would he be better off missing out and chomping at the bit for Italy?

If R Jones comes back next at 6n. Dont you think that Tipuric should be brought in at 7?

If so that would mean that Howely would need to drop Warburton. If he (Howely )did drop Warburton who would take over as captain?

We may have to get used to Howley because in my opinion Gatland won't be back after the Lions.

Why would he. He openly admitted going for job in NZ and only turning it down because the money wasn't good enough.

After the Lions what is left for him to do in the NH. He will have coached a winning English Premiership side. Coached 2 of the 6 nations teams and won Grand Slams. And coached the Lions hopefully successfully.

I think a NZ coaching position will be the next thing on his radar so why come back to Wales where it looks like a little bit of the shine is being eroded from his legacy.

Contract? Isn't he signed until 2015?

Warburrton should be on the bench we will get killed with two 7's against France I would go for R Jones at 6 and Coombs at 4 or the other way around or start with Kohn at 4 and Coombs on the bench we were lacking grunt against Ireland we will need more against France. I go along with LB and FB and 1/2 Penny on the wing. I don't believe JD2 can be as bad again but why was not S Wiliams not brought on, clueless by Howley.

France play with two sevens themselves.

The balance of tipuric and warburton together is not right and it leaves your backrow pretty lightweight esp. In the lineout.

Is Ryan jones fit... If so I would bring him in and play with tipuric and faletau.

I would also drop cuthbert... All good scoring tries but if your leaking more then you score you're not worth it your place. He doesn't have a rugby brain either in attack or in defence.

Jenkins and Rees has to go too... If not then Wales will be destroyed in the scrum, start a procession of yellow cards and put them on the backfoot.

fa0019 wrote:The balance of tipuric and warburton together is not right and it leaves your backrow pretty lightweight esp. In the lineout.

Is Ryan jones fit... If so I would bring him in and play with tipuric and faletau.

I would also drop cuthbert... All good scoring tries but if your leaking more then you score you're not worth it your place. He doesn't have a rugby brain either in attack or in defence.

Jenkins and Rees has to go too... If not then Wales will be destroyed in the scrum, start a procession of yellow cards and put them on the backfoot.

Rees is Wales strongest scrumaging hooker by far. Hibbard excells for the Ospreys but has never shown that kind of form for Wales, he is also a bit of a liability. I agree on Cuthbert, not much between Tipuric and Warburton on Saturday, Tipuric is being bragged up because he came on when Wales were playing well.

Ryan almost made the Irish game, he will be fit for the France game unless something goes wrong. If I had my way I would have the whole Ospreys back row based on form up to the Irish game also they have a "winning mentality". I believe the Ospreys pack is better than the Wales pack when all are fit, only James would get in their team apart from the Osprey players in the Welsh team. I was impressed with Coombs but he is a 6 for me he did a very good job but at 4 but against the powerful French, English and even Scotland we will suffer in the scrum. We were expected to out power the Irish but that did not happen and with two 7's it will be worse. Looking at the Cardiff Blues they have two 7's just look at their results also Warburton is outplayed by his partner at the Blues just like the second half last Sat.

The Blues back-row with Copeland at 8 causes mayhem for the opposition. Their poorer results are down to a weak front 5 and a clueless monkey running the team.

thebluesmancometh wrote:THE BACKLINE ISN'T THE PROBLEM!!!

The game was lost up front in the first 40, how exactly is changing the backline going to change that?

We have a few backs with flaws, 1/2p's height, Cuthberts defence, but in general if our backs are presented with ball we score and win.

Disagree. Think it has become a problem. Watching the two matches on Saturday, the ponderous predictability of our back play in the 1st half was frightening. The other teams - Scotland included - looked faster, sharper, trickier. They looked like they had been COACHED.

As for the Zebo try - 3 welsh backs vs. 2 irish and zebo waltzed round under the posts without a hand laid on him. Shocking.

Not a forward pass by the way. Simply class play by BOD against naive and panicky defenders. Check it out -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMLgRb4jtCQ

That's not to say there aren't serious problems up front though. In the first half, we were also outmuscled in the scrums and butchered some line-outs and got nowhere in the loose.

A lot to think about. When the ABs put 30 on us by halftime unanswered, that was one thing. The Irish doing it is another thing entirely. Games between us have always been close. This one wasn't. It was over after 50 mins.

It seems the problem from a few years ago has arisen again in which we start giving it a go when its too late score board wise. When our backs were up against the wall, we gave it our all as we had nothing to lose. If we had the mentality we showed after Ireland's third try from the first minute, we wouldn't mind ourselves 20 points down by 42 mins.

Tupuric has to start next week. He did more when he came on than Warbs has done all year. Such a threat at the breakdown and with ball in hand, gave us some real 'go forward' ball.

Coombs did well on debut so I wouldn't drop him. His confidence will be high after a solid debut and he showed real commitment out there on saturday. I'm still in shock how Jenkins got in ahead of James, he has to start next week otherwise the game will be lost up front once again. Hopefully Ryan will be back also, I'd bring him in at 6 and then Warbs on in the second half also at 6 to replace him.

Phillips still annoys me. His distribution is just so slow, we would benefit from a rees/peel type who could get us quick ball rather than having to take a step, then look up and then play a poor pass. For all his good work at the breakdown and in defense, its costing us quick ball and ultimately try scoring opportunities.

My team next week:

1. James
2. Hibbard
3. Jones
4. Coombs
5. Evans
6. Jones
7. Tupuric
8. Faletau
9. Phillips (ideally Rees/Davies/Peel but not going to happen)
10. Biggar
11. North
12. Roberts
13. JD2
14. 1/2P
15. Byrne

16. Owens
17. Mitchell
18. Bevvington
19. Kohn
20. Warbs
21. Williams
22. Hook
23. S.Williams

Guys,

We can go on as much as 'we' want about Warburton shouldn't start BUT we all know he will its just a matter of where, Howley hasn't got the minerals to drop him.

The first half Ireland played well but we defended worse than I have seen in a decade. When we had the ball we made stupid mistakes, resulting in turning over possession to scrums and line outs.

Set piece wasn't bad, considering the second row.

Second half Tips, Lloyd added pace. We cut down on errors and played confidently.

I don't think we will win in France but I think we will play better. We started very slowly again...! The players are better than the account they gave.

I think that Wales need just one change Gatland for Howley..
Wales still have the players to win the Championship but not the Head Coach to lead them..

I'm sorry but at every poster who mentions the 9 or backline as a serious problem I just stop reading straight away.

How is Phillips to blame if at every breakdown he is having to wrestle with Irishmen, drag the ball from under bodies and lift players out of his way? Wiliams had to do the exact same thing except he then passed like a prop to boot!!

And how can the backline look clueless when we didn't see any ball first half, if a backline is starved for long periods they get itchy, and when they do see some ball they try too hard to do something with it, it's called nature.

We all saw the 2nd half right? As soon as the pack managed some parity the physicality of the backline took control of the game, 3 tries in one half says so.

I'm not saying there weren't mistakes, Cuthbert has no defence whatsoever, JD2 made some poor decisions, but it all stems from our forwards getting their ar5e handed to them.

I thought Phillips was as composed and played as well as anyone on the pitch, but IMHO this Welsh team are overly structured, have ran too many plays without a reactional response and underprepared.

The difference between the first and 2nd half was that the form guys entered and managed to do somehting, Tipuric, James and Owens were instrumental, even though the lineout fell apart (it was always going to, a team who can't function a lineout anyway who loses it's best 4/5 operators were always going to struggle) the scrum gained dominance, and all of a sudden we were the better team.

Also just want to mention that every point Ireland scored came directly from a basic error from Wales...

Losing our own lineout, penalty at the scrum = try.

Biggar charged down = try

Disagree about Phillips, a number of times he takes too long to get to a ruck and his control of forwards in a maul is ponderous. He also tries to break around the ruck when the ball needs to go wide. I agree that he's not getting good ball delivery but look at the 2nd half when we had an overlap and BOD managed to tap the arms of phillips causing a knock on, reason he was taking 3 steps from the ruck when he should have passed from the base.

hahahaha what exactly do you think Phillips controls in a maul?

Phillips does what every good scrum half should, cause the fringe defence to watch him and stay honest, if that means he makes a few half breaks himself then so be it, but like I said there were mistakes, and the BOD slap down was a huge one by both Phillips and the ref, BOD was a yard offside and the ball never went forward.

That said if you look at Phillips body language he is clearly the organiser and when Wales are running the structured 3 phase pod in an attempt to qiucken ball you can't blame the 9 for doing exactly that!

Look at other teams and you'll see the 10 controlling the attack, Murray doesn't have to think he just hits the loudest forward or Sexton constantly, Phillips doesn't have that option, and Wales constantly take a while to set their play.

thebluesmancometh

Yet you don't get front foot ball primarily from the scrum.. there were over 200 rucks in the game and only 12 scrums.... whilst scrum dominance is important.... ruck dominance is far far more important... but yes when Tipuric & James came on it did tip the balance more in Wales' favour.

I do however think that Phillips does put a lot of pressure on his backline and does them no favours.

Why is it that all Wales flyhalves seem to be unfit for test rugby... that they get charged down, intercepted, struggle with the pressure etc... from Hook, Priestland to now Biggar??? I do think part of the blame should lie with the forwards supplying slow ball and Phillips' own involvement and service.

For me Phillips is a luxury player, for the Lions I would prefer Care or Youngs because they are better all round scrumhalfs (albeit not necessarily better overall players).

hahahaha what exactly do you think Phillips controls in a maul?

When to use and when not to use the ball. Mostly evident in the summer tour down in Aus.

Even Bigger used to joke about not getting quick ball from Phillips on scrum V but you knew he was actually serious! But hey what does an international flyhalf know eh?

For me Phillips is a luxury player, for the Lions I would prefer Care or Youngs because they are better all round scrumhalfs

Agree, I thought they were excellent for england, very sharp and good service. Helped by good ball presentation from the dominant forwards though but still very quick decision making.

Tipuric and Warbs have better hands than JD2 and the Doc so why not swap them around?Might just work!

thebluesmancometh wrote:hahahaha what exactly do you think Phillips controls in a maul?

Phillips does what every good scrum half should, cause the fringe defence to watch him and stay honest, if that means he makes a few half breaks himself then so be it, but like I said there were mistakes, and the BOD slap down was a huge one by both Phillips and the ref, BOD was a yard offside and the ball never went forward.

That said if you look at Phillips body language he is clearly the organiser and when Wales are running the structured 3 phase pod in an attempt to qiucken ball you can't blame the 9 for doing exactly that!

Look at other teams and you'll see the 10 controlling the attack, Murray doesn't have to think he just hits the loudest forward or Sexton constantly, Phillips doesn't have that option, and Wales constantly take a while to set their play.

Yes good points, but Phillips doesn't read the game well. What he does well works but he doesn't adapt to the tempo well. He can deliver very quick ball he can keep the opposition backrow honest, his kicking has always been a weaker part of his game in my personal opinion.

What Wales needed in the second half on saturday was quick ball, and a steep backline. First half attacks we were too flat. The forwards who entered the game definitely helped get the right ball. The backs re-aligned and looked threatening.

I do agree with points above about Gatland as he does give the boys a good riling up before a game and they start faster and more accurately with him in charge.

But what noone seems to get is that Phillips can only provide from the platform he is given!!

Someone mentioned Biggar, Hook and RP not being good 10's, how can you possibly blame Phillips when RP was playing very well for ages, and Jones has been immense for Wales with Phillips at 9 for years!!!

Biggars charge down was simply because he hasn't adjusted to int pace, he took 3 steps too many and allowed a hooker to catch him, not only that but he doesn't react and barely gets back for the next phase, any 10 worth his salt who is charged down like that stops Best dead as soon as the ball drops.

I AM NOT A PHILLIPS FAN, but comments like he doesn't read the game, he is too slow and his delivery is bad are all nullinvoided by the circumstances...

He doesn't read the game = He is playing to an overstructured gameplan, he is performing his orders perfectly, it's just those orders aren't very good.

He is too slow = He is in a constant fight on our side of the ruck to even get to the ball, let alone play it quickly.

His delivery is poor = His delivery is actually poor, but in comparison to Williams he is slick.

His kicking is awfull, but can you blame him for taking control when his 10 has already been charged down once, and offered little in attack. Jones never used to allow him to get away with a poor box because he delivered security.

The problems in that first half were clearly down to 2 points...

Howleys selection of inferior players because they can perform in training - Jenkins, Rees, Evans, Warburton, Shinglar.

AND

IMHO Wales overly structured and over routined game plan.

Wales look like a team who cannot respond to the smallest indentations on a strategy, when things go well (ie Cuthberts try) we look ok, but when things break up and there is a reaction needed we are all at see, that isn't a player problem, it's a team problem. JD2, Roberts, Biggar, Warburton, Rees all threw airballs and shovel'd on shoite at times, and there was one attack in our own half where we had a 4 on 2 on the right and both Coombs and Shinglar I think shoveled the ball on to make it a 2 on 2!!

We were always going to struggle up front with our injuries, we needed form players playing well in the right positions to be competitive, and Howley got it all wrong... again.

Does anyone not worry when you hear Howley talk pre game, he tends to focus on exactly the wrong things!!HOWARE ZEBO AND GILROY THE BIG THREAT WHEN THEY HAVE SELECTED 6/7 OF THEIR BEST BALL CARRIERS AND WE HAVE NO FIT LOCKS?!?!?!?

Similar he was very worried about the Argy and Samoan physicality but hoping our set peice and control would take us over the line in the last 20, THIS IS NOT 1996 YOU F*****G MUPPET!!!

thebluesmancometh wrote:
He doesn't read the game = He is playing to an overstructured gameplan, he is performing his orders perfectly, it's just those orders aren't very good.

Absolute BS...!

By saying this you give Mike an excuse and charge the coaches with the responsibility for players not performing as well as their opposition.

A good reader of the game is a scrum half like Danny Care, he keeps a tempo that relates well to the oppositions performance and the abilities of his own team.

Phillips doesn't, he doesn't empathise well with the game happening around him.