France v Wales: Build-up and match thread

[Ospreydragon]

First topic message reminder :

A very interesting opening weekend in the 6N. Good wins for Ireland and England, and a great one for Italy, who showed some nice touches and are devloping their play (unlike Wales).

Here's a typically hyperbolic journalist (or sub-editor's headline) in today's Express:

"Rob Howley Planning to Dump Failures"

http://www.sundayexpress.co.uk/posts/view/375256/Rob-Howley-planning-to-dump-failures

Nothing in the article to state who is going to be dumped, and no surprise there.

Will Howley have the cojones to drop some players? Jenkins, Shingler, and one of the centres? We'll see!

[maestegmafia]

Punching a scrum half?

That's like hitting a small, asthmatic schoolgirl in a wheelchair in real money.

Yes, but Arwel was smaller than him.

When the touch judged fingered Arwel for the punch the ref didn't believe him.

[BlueNote]

Arwel Thomas had a lively side to him, he also had Craig Gillies taken off to be stitched up when Gillies tried to hassle him off the ball. He must have boxed?

[Glas a du]

Must have.

I agree, Huw Ike was having kittens when JJ was condoning him

"the Frenchman hit him first!"

Ah, the good old days of baggy jerseys, beer and violence...

[Luckless Pedestrian]

That was Wales's last game at the Parc des Princes, I think. Or as a Welsh fan they interviewed before the game called it, the 'Parc des France'.

[whocares]

last game in the parc des princes was in 1997 ie just prior the footy world cup and just one year before a certain result in wembley

currently its 43 win for France, 44 for Wales and 3 draws. let's make it even

[Guest]

What an absolute joke of a comment by Edwards. Must be good to know you have that luxury. Edwards is supposed to be a hard buzzard too (like Cement Head Gatland), but that is such weak management. One poor game should be rewarded with one way ticket back to club or region, otherwise it would suggest we have no depth.

[Glas a du]

last game in the parc des princes was in 1997 ie just prior the footy world cup and just one year before a certain result in wembley

currently its 43 win for France, 44 for Wales and 3 draws. let's make it even

Two years

[Luckless Pedestrian]

Rev, it would be a joke of a comment even if that genuinely was the coaches' rule and applied evenly to all players, but it's not. Some of the starting XV from Saturday have been allowed the luxury of far more than two bad games and retaining their places in the side; and just you watch, Dan Biggar and Andrew Coombes, two players who had good (although not faultless) Six Nations debuts, will be dropped for the game in Paris.

[Glas a du]

They will pick:
Halfpenny
Cuthbert
JD2
Roberts
North
Hook
Phillips

James
Hibbard
Jones
Evans
Kohn
Jones
Faletau
Warburton

My team would be:
Byrne
Walker
North
Roberts
Halfpenny
Biggar
Phillips

James
Hibbard
Jones
Evans
Ryan Jones
Coombes
Faletau
Tipuric.

[whocares]

last game in the parc des princes was in 1997 ie just prior the footy world cup and just one year before a certain result in wembley

currently its 43 win for France, 44 for Wales and 3 draws. let's make it even

Two years

well done Glas. selective memory can be of some use I guess...Interestingly, in the 1998 game your captain was a certain Rob Howley

[GunsGerms]

Anyone know if there were any citings after the Ireland Wales match?

[Glas a du]

That's a loaded question if ever I saw one!

[Luckless Pedestrian]

Interestingly, in the 1998 game your captain was a certain Rob Howley

Ah yes. 51 - 0. The most humiliating result in Welsh rugby history.

(Although it was a masterclass from Thomas Castaignede!)

[GunsGerms]

That's a loaded question if ever I saw one!

Ha ha not really. I guess you think Im referring to Tipuric? I watched the incident and honestly couldnt see any contact from the angle I was looking at so really cant comment on it. Im just curious.

[whocares]

Interestingly, in the 1998 game your captain was a certain Rob Howley

Ah yes. 51 - 0. The most humiliating result in Welsh rugby history.

(Although it was a masterclass from Thomas Castaignede!)

yes you are right about Castaignede , vintage performance back then. now we have flaky Michalak who on a bad day, cannot decide , cannot kick and hardly can pass!

[AlastairW]

Interestingly, in the 1998 game your captain was a certain Rob Howley

Ah yes. 51 - 0. The most humiliating result in Welsh rugby history.

(Although it was a masterclass from Thomas Castaignede!)

yes you are right about Castaignede , vintage performance back then. now we have flaky Michalak who on a bad day, cannot decide , cannot kick and hardly can pass!

Yeah, Michalak didn't have his finest hour at the weekend. I presume the French press have been going a little ape sh1t at them? Or are Les Bleus getting a pass due to an awesome Autumn?

[Norfolklass]

What will it take for Rob Howley to resign, or get pushed?

[Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler]

Interestingly, in the 1998 game your captain was a certain Rob Howley

Ah yes. 51 - 0. The most humiliating result in Welsh rugby history.

(Although it was a masterclass from Thomas Castaignede!)

So not the time they shipped 96 points to SA then? Or given the opposition; 62 to one of the worst England sides assembled in the professional era (we can perhaps forgive them for shipping 50 points to England in 2002)? Or losing to Canada?

[GunsGerms]

Interestingly, in the 1998 game your captain was a certain Rob Howley

Ah yes. 51 - 0. The most humiliating result in Welsh rugby history.

(Although it was a masterclass from Thomas Castaignede!)

So not the time they shipped 96 points to SA then? Or given the opposition; 62 to one of the worst England sides assembled in the professional era (we can perhaps forgive them for shipping 50 points to England in 2002)? Or losing to Canada?

How about 3 February 2002, Lansdowne Road - Ireland 54 – 10 Wales.

[maestegmafia]

I cant see Ryan Jones going in to the team at Lock or Number eight, he will be in as a blindside flanker if anything.

Meaning Shingler, Warburton or Tipuric will bench.

[maestegmafia]

I would like to see

James
Hibbard
Jones
Evans
Coombs
Ryan
Tips
Faletau
Phillips
Biggar
Halfpenny
Roberts
Jd2
North
Byrne

Reps
Bevington
Rees
Mitchell
Kohn
Warburton
Lloyd
Hook
Liam Williams

[Luckless Pedestrian]

Interestingly, in the 1998 game your captain was a certain Rob Howley

Ah yes. 51 - 0. The most humiliating result in Welsh rugby history.

(Although it was a masterclass from Thomas Castaignede!)

So not the time they shipped 96 points to SA then? Or given the opposition; 62 to one of the worst England sides assembled in the professional era (we can perhaps forgive them for shipping 50 points to England in 2002)? Or losing to Canada?

No, none of those. It was the nil as much as it was the 51 conceded.

[maestegmafia]

Interestingly, in the 1998 game your captain was a certain Rob Howley

Ah yes. 51 - 0. The most humiliating result in Welsh rugby history.

(Although it was a masterclass from Thomas Castaignede!)

So not the time they shipped 96 points to SA then? Or given the opposition; 62 to one of the worst England sides assembled in the professional era (we can perhaps forgive them for shipping 50 points to England in 2002)? Or losing to Canada?

No, none of those. It was the nil as much as it was the 51 conceded.

Then in 1999

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yEGtwLDUFKs

[Liam]

We're gonna need a strong front 5 to cope with the French and give our backs and most importantly, Phillips a platform to work off. That means picking our strongest scrummages in:

1. James
2. Hibbard
3. Jones

Then, I would stick with Coombs who really looked to put the ball up his jumper so to speak, and take it to the Irish. We'll need that sort of commitment against the French, he deserves his spot.

4. Coombs
5. Evans

Ryan is back and we need a big ball carrying 6 and some weight added to the scrum. Tips is the form 7 and has been outstanding this season. Deserves to start regardless whether Warbs is the captain. In fact, give the captaincy back to Ryan.

6. Jones
7. Tipuric
8. Faletau

Biggar did ok last game and recovered well from the charge down. Deserves to keep the 10 jersey. If we want to open it up second half, bring Hook on earlier than 70 mins, simples.

9. Phillips
10. Biggar

Roberts for me has offered very little of late and does not deserve, despite his excellent defence to keep the 12 jersey. Scott Williams has played well alongside JD2 for region and country. Give him a start I say. People calling for JD2 to be dropped after one poor game are bonkers. Him and 1/2p have been one of the few players who have played well in the last 12 months. One bad game does not warrant him being dropped for me.

12. Williams
13. JD2

Back 3 is an interesting call. I believe 1/2p is so much suited more to the wing position, but at FB he's been superb. However, Byrne is in great form atm and on form he's one of the best FB in the world. 1/2p to the wing for me. North to keep his spot over Cuthbert, as he for me has the better defence and did look quite threatening when eventually brought into the game by the other players.

11. North
14. 1/2p
15. Byrne

Replacements:

16. Gill
17. Owens
18. Mitchell
19. Kohn
20. Shingler
21. Williams
22. Hook
23. Cuthbert

[whocares]

Yeah, Michalak didn't have his finest hour at the weekend. I presume the French press have been going a little ape sh1t at them? Or are Les Bleus getting a pass due to an awesome Autumn?

PSA is one bad result away from being in the same category as Marc Lievremont. The game against australia is clearly saving his a$$ rigth now. His problem is that his entire game plan relies on Michalak so that might be a bit dangerous.... I personally blame as much the players as the coach : the selection was odd and the coaching was very strange but mainly the players didnt gave 100% in the contact phases...

[Luckless Pedestrian]

Liam, you're spot on with that XV - the bench too. But we both know that's not the match day squad we'll see announced on Thursday.

[majesticimperialman]

Shaun Edwards made a comment today that some of the top stars of the Wales team are only 2 games from being dropped from the team.

Why 2 games? Why not drop some of the so called stars for this week ends game?

It just baffles that they would rather keep the same players week in week out,
rather than make changers for the next game.

[Glas a du]

Because you keep a losing team and tinker with a winning team, see?

[Ospreydragon]

"It just baffles that they would rather keep the same players week in week out" -- Howley has clearly stated that he is totally in charge and can make all the decisions as head coach, including team selection. He lacks the experience to make bold decisions, and to drop players with a big reputation who are not in form and haven't been for a long time.

Look at the team selected against Ireland:

Jenkins -- should not even have been in the matchday 22 or the squad. James should have started. Rhys Gill should have been in the squad instead of Jenkins.

Rees -- Owens should have started (given Hibbard's injury -- Hibbard has been by far the best hooker in Wales this season).

Coombs -- had a decent debut, showed some grunt and effort, but small for a lock and is really a 6. Kohn should have started -- to have a big front 5.

Warburton -- luck to have his place. No evidence of leadeship against Ireland. made poor decsions, and isn't setting the world on fire. Tipuric should have played instead of him. on the basis of form. Warbs could have been given a chance at 6 with a big front 5 -- or Coombs could have played there. That would have been a better pack to start.

Biggar -- has played well but I think Hook is the better player.

Byrne-- has been the form FB and should have started. Not even in the 23!

Halfpenny -- form player, but not a FB, and should have played instead of Cuthbert, who is still learning the game (given that he's pretty new to rugby in general and 15 a side in particular).

At international level, the best coaches are ruthless. Howley is not. And he won't be when he names the team on Thursday either. He is too loyal to players' reps and former achievements.

[Knowsit17]

We can do it but not unless they pull their heads from their backsides first half. I can easily see a 50+ humiliation on the cards unless they play with the fire and ferocity it took them 50 mins and 30 pts to actually find against Ireland.

[maestegmafia]

Im sure Edwards, Howley and the lads will be giving the boys a full kick up the Backside this week.

No matter Paris is a tough city to take a win for any team.

[George Carlin]

Paris is tough but at least Lee Byrne won't have to travel far to sit and watch a team that he should definitely be playing in.

15. Byrne, 14. Halfpenny and 11. North would actually be the form back three at the moment. I am willing to acknowledge that I may not understand that various nuances but I think that broadly ignoring exiles is a mental policy.

[Ospreydragon]

George Carlin, I don't think they're ignoring exiles, even though they trumpet a players_in_Wales-first policy. Jenkins (when he plays) plays in France, as does Mike P. The coaches have their favourites and keep picking them. The likes of Byrne and Hook are clearly not favourites. Even if they played in Wales, the situation would be the same.

[Knowsit17]

The thing with Hook and Byrne is that, despite being very good on form, they have a tendency of folding and going into disarray at sudden odd moments. And when they do they become massive liabilities to the whole team. Who remembers Hook's kicking display in the RWC semi?

The least you'd have to concede in Phillips and Jenkins' favour is that they have been central to all major Welsh success from 08 onwards, even if they're not playing well at the minute. Players like Hook and Byrne have not. And I've had it up to here with players who promise much and then go missing when they're needed most.

[Ospreydragon]

"Who remembers Hook's kicking display in the RWC semi?" -- Hook is always expected to save the day. When Biggar got the nod a lot of the time at the Ospreys and played badly or the O's were losing, Hook would invariably be asked to take over and save the day. The same has happened with Wales. He needs to be give the confidence to play and a proper run in the 10 shirt, liek Priestland was. You cannot expect a player to perform at 10 at intl level when they hardly ever play at 10 at intl level.

I suspect that Biggar will be given a full run in the shirt for this 6N, to show what he can do. I just wish Hook had been given the chance. If a player fails, then he should be dropped and then another gets given a chance. Priestland should not have been the 10 in the Autumn.

[George Carlin]

George Carlin, I don't think they're ignoring exiles, even though they trumpet a players_in_Wales-first policy. Jenkins (when he plays) plays in France, as does Mike P. The coaches have their favourites and keep picking them. The likes of Byrne and Hook are clearly not favourites. Even if they played in Wales, the situation would be the same.

In that case, I'm starting to understand why Howley seems to be regarded as a selector of Andy Robinson-esque crapulence.

[Jimpy]

Shaun Edwards made a comment today that some of the top stars of the Wales team are only 2 games from being dropped from the team.

Why 2 games? Why not drop some of the so called stars for this week ends game?

It just baffles that they would rather keep the same players week in week out,
rather than make changers for the next game.

It seems like the English plan to get Edwards installed within the Welsh team and wreak havoc, is finally beginning to pay off. Did you know that Howley is really called Robert St-John Smyth, and is from Surbiton?

[maestegmafia]

George Carlin, I don't think they're ignoring exiles, even though they trumpet a players_in_Wales-first policy. Jenkins (when he plays) plays in France, as does Mike P. The coaches have their favourites and keep picking them. The likes of Byrne and Hook are clearly not favourites. Even if they played in Wales, the situation would be the same.

In that case, I'm starting to understand why Howley seems to be regarded as a selector of Andy Robinson-esque crapulence.

"Favourites" or you could say Mike Phillips is our best scrum half, Jenkins and james offer different games but are our two best tight heads, and a call between Byrne and Halfpenny for the fullback birth is tough as both are very good with Halfpenny being a kicker he is the better option.

Re-Hook and Biggar, close call too.

It's not the Coaches that are the problem it's the players not playing to the standard they can. They started slow and three stupid defensive mistakes cost them dearly.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

Jenkins and james offer different games but are our two best tight heads

No, Gill and James are our two best looseheads.

Also, you don't mention Roberts and Warburton in your defence of Howley's selection.

[Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler]

The likes of Byrne and Hook are clearly not favourites. Even if they played in Wales, the situation would be the same.

Which is funny because pre Preistaland everyone used to moan that they kept getting picked due to favouritism.

[maestegmafia]

Jenkins and james offer different games but are our two best tight heads

No, Gill and James are our two best looseheads.

Also, you don't mention Roberts and Warburton in your defence of Howley's selection.

I disagree that Gill is better than Jenkins and Bevington, he has just recovered from injury and he has been playing half a game at most for the last few months. Not that Jenkins has played many more, but Jenkins fitness is better than Gills, as Jenkins hasn't been injured.

Didn't mention Warburton or Roberts because both have been playing well recently, why mention them. Are they worthy of Critique? Warburton played well, Roberts didnt play well saturday.

Those players who you or i define as playing well or not may differ, but my point stand that it is those players making mistakes on the pitch, those players not playing as well as they can on the day and not Howley or the other coaches missing the tackles.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

Maes, the coaches are responsible for selection and tactics. If they're getting either of those wrong, that's a problem, but when they're getting both wrong, we're in trouble.

[maestegmafia]

BBC


The Welsh management are picking the brains of their France-based players as they prepare for the Six Nations trip to Paris on Saturday.

Four members of the Welsh squad currently play in France, and backs coach Mark Jones says that could be used in Wales' favour.

"We've had conversations with those players [playing in France]," he said.

"You've got Wesley Fofana down in Clermont so we've been picking Lee Byrne's brains about his strengths."

Clermont full-back Byrne was the only one of the Welsh squad members currently plying their trade in France to miss out on the 22-30 loss against Ireland in Cardiff .

Prop Gethin Jenkins (Toulon) and scrum-half Mike Phillips (Bayonne) both started against the Irish, while James Hook (Perpignan) came on as a second-half substitute.

And Jones, who has been drafted in from the Scarlets coaching team for the duration of the Six Nations, believes their inside knowledge could be used on the pitch too.

"You might say [Wales should be] playing some of those players against them [France] as well," he said.

"They know their weaknesses even more, that's something else that comes into the equation and one that we're certainly thinking about."

Jones, who won 47 caps on the wing for Wales, believes the team will need that extra edge against a French team smarting after their shock 23-18 defeat by Italy in Rome.

"They [France] are a fantastic rugby team and they've got the potential to win very badly and win very well, that's how good they can be," said Jones.

"I'm never very happy to play France because they are a quality outfit, but I think it's a good game for us. It will focus the mind, we're very aware of how good France can be and I think it will make sure we prepare well."

[Casartelli]

Panic over.

Mark 'Sir Clive' Jones has devised an 'ask the French based players about the French' masterplan. WRU cutbacks mean they couldn't afford any footage of Top 14 games.

Howley is now going to play Gethin Jenkins on the wing, as he met Fofana once while on the bench at Toulon, and Hooky is going to prop against Mas. They go for a Starbucks together after training in Perpignan.

[LondonTiger]

Latest news suggests that Rob Howley will make only minimal changes to the line-up.

"They are quality players and deserve the chance to make amends" he will say, before announcing a team with two changes - Andy Powell in at 6 instead of the injured Aaron Shingler and James Hook replacing JD2 at outside centre.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

It makes perfect sense for them to speak to the France-based players about the French, but they shouldn't be telling them anything they don't already know. Even if they do, the coaches should already have a decent idea of how France will play.

Should the fact that a player plays in France mean he gets selected? Only if it means we're going to call up Richie Rees for the game at Murrayfield and bring in Gavin Henson for the England game.

[Casartelli]

Mark Jones: "Byrney, analyze Fofana for the guys?"

Lee Byrne: "Boys, he is wicked fast and stuff."

Mark Jones: "Yeah, err, thanks Lee."

[maestegmafia]

Panic over.

Mark 'Sir Clive' Jones has devised an 'ask the French based players about the French' masterplan. WRU cutbacks mean they couldn't afford any footage of Top 14 games.

Howley is now going to play Gethin Jenkins on the wing, as he met Fofana once while on the bench at Toulon, and Hooky is going to prop against Mas. They go for a Starbucks together after training in Perpignan.

There you go problem solved

Gives Howley a good reason not to pick any France based players, then the French will know little or nothing about our team.

[Casartelli]

Latest newsflash.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/21340759

In addition to the insider info from the 'French Connection' Mark Jones has revealed the top secret training techniques that are set to surprise France.

"We've been getting the guys to run up and down the pitch, with a ball.' said the ex Llanelli flyer.

"Then one will pass it to the guy running next to him, then he passes it to the next one along, and so on and so forth. It's something the guys in France have been doing in the French league and to be honest, it's blowing our minds."

Jones, who once nearly scored a great try against France, also revealed that almost all the players are taking to the new tactic like ducks to water.

"Yeah, well, all except Jonathan Davies. We've had to ask the French to issue crash helmets for any fans sitting in the first ten rows of the stands in Paris. To comply with some eurozone Health & Safety laws, or something."

[ChequeredJersey]

Our team's scrum half was carded for being punched in the face once. Interesting refereeing call, that

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