England Changes Vs Ireland?

First topic message reminder :

I thought it was a good all round team performance from England against the Scots, particularly in the pack but I do not think anyone had a bad game as such. England showed the intent to move the ball quickly throughout the game, this did leave them open to turnovers and counter attacks, as a result of this the likes of brown and Goode were stretched defensively. So despite what could be perceived as flaky defensive displays I think Lancaster will continue with, what has been his policy up to this point, and try to pick the same team next week.

At this point I have to say that Mike Browns positioning and decision making out on the wing was directly responsible for the Scots first try, in a game where England are not so dominant up front it is errors like this that could lead to crucial scores. I thought Brown was excellent again in attack and want to see him in the team vs Ireland. I am sure im not the only one who would like to see brown at full back and a winger brought in but I dont think Lancaster will do this as there are no wingers in the squad demanding selection. Wade should be in the squad.

Apart from that we have the potential return of Tuilagi. Now, a fit and firing tuilagi is a certain starter but the policy is play your way back in, and he should be given every opportunity to do so from the bench, if he does come back firing then the question of who he replaces will be asked on the next test weekend.

The only other selection questions may come from injuries and knocks that tend to emerge in the days after a test match but the only one I have heard is Morgans ankle and nothing to suggest he is not fit, if he isnt, its Haskell for me. Haskell is unfortunate not to be in the side anyway, different player to morgan but against a strong Irish back row it could be a benefit having him there.

EnglishReign wrote:What if it's the 80th minute, last phase of play? Swallow dive and pipe playing to win the game.

At least he would get his head kicked in. I'd be happy enough with that. You really think the Irish lads need an excuse to slap Ashton?

EnglishReign wrote:What if it's the 80th minute, last phase of play? Swallow dive and pipe playing to win the game.

86th minute, 43rd phase of the move. Ashton scores the winning try and celebrates with:

Swallow dive
Throwing the ball into the crowd (hitting someone in a wheelchair)
Pipe Playing
And finally pulling a moonie to show images of Cromwell and Churchill on his buttocks.

Or is that just a bit too silly

...I jest by the way though I think it would be quite funny to see him try to do it. One way or another I dont think it would be a smart move.

LondonTiger wrote:

EnglishReign wrote:What if it's the 80th minute, last phase of play? Swallow dive and pipe playing to win the game.

86th minute, 43rd phase of the move. Ashton scores the winning try and celebrates with:

Swallow dive
Throwing the ball into the crowd (hitting someone in a wheelchair)
Pipe Playing
And finally pulling a moonie to show images of Cromwell and Churchill on his buttocks.

..why not pull out a union jack, cup of tea and a cuecumber sandwich out of his shorts and have a picnic on the halfway line while he is at it.

With Ashton it would more likely be Fish and Chips

Shame its not in Croke parke he could make the shape of a machine gun and shoot into the crowd as a celebration instead if he scored a try. Now that would really offend some people.

LondonTiger wrote:

EnglishReign wrote:What if it's the 80th minute, last phase of play? Swallow dive and pipe playing to win the game.

86th minute, 43rd phase of the move. Ashton scores the winning try and celebrates with:

Swallow dive
Throwing the ball into the crowd (hitting someone in a wheelchair)
Pipe Playing
And finally pulling a moonie to show images of Cromwell and Churchill on his buttocks.

Ah sure Andy Trimble does that every weekend up at Ravers..... thats why he got dropped for Zeeeebbboooo....

Also I am guessing that the orange boots some of the lads have worn may not be the best idea?

LondonTiger wrote:Also I am guessing that the orange boots some of the lads have worn may not be the best idea?

Not sure anyone would care. Its just a colour.

LondonTiger wrote:

EnglishReign wrote:What if it's the 80th minute, last phase of play? Swallow dive and pipe playing to win the game.

86th minute, 43rd phase of the move. Ashton scores the winning try and celebrates with:

Swallow dive
Throwing the ball into the crowd (hitting someone in a wheelchair)
Pipe Playing
And finally pulling a moonie to show images of Cromwell and Churchill on his buttocks.

. Think even I'd join in beating him up

It could be cold, maybe the irish lads should wear balaclavas?

Lets face nothing Ashton could do could ever top Johnno vs the President

Why do so many of you get up in arms over a swallow dive?

I don't think anyone has had a go at Ickle Shane for his somersault when scoring one of his last international tries vs Australia. Also he did a somersault vs the Dragons too.

Plus Cipriani's silly little dance after he scored for the Rebels.

Beshocked, he's just a cocky little working class northerner and has no place being in the England setup and to make matters worse he's a former League player. I am surprised he's not criticised for breathing.

aitchw wrote:Beshocked, he's just a cocky little working class northerner and has no place being in the England setup and to make matters worse he's a former League player. I am surprised he's not criticised for breathing.

Nowt wrong with t'lad bein northern. Bein a lancastrian now...

beshocked wrote:Why do so many of you get up in arms over a swallow dive?

I don't think anyone has had a go at Ickle Shane for his somersault when scoring one of his last international tries vs Australia. Also he did a somersault vs the Dragons too.

Plus Cipriani's silly little dance after he scored for the Rebels.

maybe cause he has the most slappable face in rugby.

GunsGerms wrote:

beshocked wrote:Why do so many of you get up in arms over a swallow dive?

I don't think anyone has had a go at Ickle Shane for his somersault when scoring one of his last international tries vs Australia. Also he did a somersault vs the Dragons too.

Plus Cipriani's silly little dance after he scored for the Rebels.

maybe cause he has the most slappable face in rugby.

More so than Gavin Henson and Danny Cipriani?

beshocked wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

beshocked wrote:Why do so many of you get up in arms over a swallow dive?

I don't think anyone has had a go at Ickle Shane for his somersault when scoring one of his last international tries vs Australia. Also he did a somersault vs the Dragons too.

Plus Cipriani's silly little dance after he scored for the Rebels.

maybe cause he has the most slappable face in rugby.

More so than Gavin Henson and Danny Cipriani?

Or Sexton (if you're Sin e )

aitchw wrote:Beshocked, he's just a cocky little working class northerner and has no place being in the England setup and to make matters worse he's a former League player. I am surprised he's not criticised for breathing.

Most of us are, aren't we?

Sexton does have a bit of a slappable face too.

aitchw wrote:Beshocked, he's just a cocky little working class northerner and has no place being in the England setup and to make matters worse he's a former League player. I am surprised he's not criticised for breathing.

Lol, but your from Leeds?

nathan wrote:

aitchw wrote:Beshocked, he's just a cocky little working class northerner and has no place being in the England setup and to make matters worse he's a former League player. I am surprised he's not criticised for breathing.

Lol, but your from Leeds?

I think he might be being sarcastic too?

Tiger, Ash being Lancastrian is hard to forgive but Im working on it. Main reason I would never wear an England replica shirt with the red rose on it, now if it had been the Tudor Rose I could have just about lived with it.

Biltong, don't know any more about that. The class thing is very fluid for most people, seems to depend more on money than background these days unless, of course, yours is a priviledged one then it just means that in the dim and distant your line is from thugs, thieves and Normandy.

Class is a bullshoite issue in rugby is mostly brought up as a stick to beat the English with. In a country of over 53 million people how can we all be quaffing champers with quail eggs and caviar?

Also I don't get the overall dislike of Chris Ashton, he does seem to wind everyone up though. I reckon he's a decent lad who likes a laugh and can (most importantly) laugh at himself. If England are winning and Asthon is crossing the line to put them out of sight, I think we all could forgive him for swallow-diving!

Agree with you Sugarlump regarding Ashton. In all his interviews, he comes across as actually a really nice, down to earth bloke. He even seems a little quiet. I'm not sure where this hatred of him comes from, but it's all just a little petulant. There are certainly more players in the game that are far more arrogant on the pitch, and in celebrating their tries, but Ashton seems to get all the hate.

bluestonevedder wrote:Agree with you Sugarlump regarding Ashton. In all his interviews, he comes across as actually a really nice, down to earth bloke. He even seems a little quiet. I'm not sure where this hatred of him comes from, but it's all just a little petulant. There are certainly more players in the game that are far more arrogant on the pitch, and in celebrating their tries, but Ashton seems to get all the hate.

I think its down to how the English are viewed in the world, it's like we should only pat each other on the back and say something like 'good show'. When players celebrate unconsciously and do something wild or flamboyant the world would be more comfortable for us to be joyless, expressionless, automatons as they are easier to dislike. And there's always the 'you're country are responsible for this and for that, you're lot killed Xnumber of natives in cold blood etc' . On that point when is everyone gonna a have a go at Mongolia, they've been laughing at us since Genghis Khan's shenanigans?!

Of course the Welsh dont have these same problems with celebrating victories.

People hate the Splash because he looks like Hartley - who everyone hates more.

I don't hate Hartley, but then my soul is evil

Sugarlump wrote:Class is a bullshoite issue in rugby is mostly brought up as a stick to beat the English with. In a country of over 53 million people how can we all be quaffing champers with quail eggs and caviar?

Also I don't get the overall dislike of Chris Ashton, he does seem to wind everyone up though. I reckon he's a decent lad who likes a laugh and can (most importantly) laugh at himself. If England are winning and Asthon is crossing the line to put them out of sight, I think we all could forgive him for swallow-diving!

I wont.

GunsGerms wrote:

Sugarlump wrote:Class is a bullshoite issue in rugby is mostly brought up as a stick to beat the English with. In a country of over 53 million people how can we all be quaffing champers with quail eggs and caviar?

Also I don't get the overall dislike of Chris Ashton, he does seem to wind everyone up though. I reckon he's a decent lad who likes a laugh and can (most importantly) laugh at himself. If England are winning and Asthon is crossing the line to put them out of sight, I think we all could forgive him for swallow-diving!

I wont.

Lighten up, don't take it so seriously.

Some of the people that slag Ashton seem to take it very seriously indeed

Sugarlump wrote:I don't hate Hartley, but then my soul is evil

Ha ha

cheers stub

AlastairW wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

Sugarlump wrote:Class is a bullshoite issue in rugby is mostly brought up as a stick to beat the English with. In a country of over 53 million people how can we all be quaffing champers with quail eggs and caviar?

Also I don't get the overall dislike of Chris Ashton, he does seem to wind everyone up though. I reckon he's a decent lad who likes a laugh and can (most importantly) laugh at himself. If England are winning and Asthon is crossing the line to put them out of sight, I think we all could forgive him for swallow-diving!

I wont.

Lighten up, don't take it so seriously.

Its a very serious matter.

I would be quite happy to see Billy V start on Sunday. Haskell played well enough when he came on but I have a bit of a question mark over starting a game with Wood at 8 when he is clearly not (as it seems they might given last weekend). I would prefer a traditional no.8. I also feel Haskell plays best as an impact sub (no facts to back that up). Then again it did go ok with wood at 8 so perhaps I am worrying over nothing.

I think I am more sure in the centres. I would start with the same as last week. Bring Tuilagi on as an impact sub. That means Barrit is there to Marshall the defence whilst BOD is fresh and Manu can take care of their tired defence. Then again perhaps Barrit is needed more when we get tired and Manu early against the choke tackle. Who knows

Finally I would like to see Brown at FB, but given the players released that would mean Strettle on the wing. Not convinced by that......

Ah, in the end perhaps I am happiest to leave it all to SL

It was good to see Haskell so reinvigorated. Looked like all that experience has now soaked in and hes back to his best

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:Of course the Welsh dont have these same problems with celebrating victories.

Now that Sir, is comedy.

Might have to go back on what i said earlier about Tom wood...the guy is 26, 6ft 5 and near 18stone, he is built like a number 8 perhaps he could be a bloomin good one if given a chance especially considering we have tom croft and James haskell at 6...Still its a nice conundrum to have especially with Morgan and Vunipola pushing hard for the 8 shirt..too. I spose Vunipola and Morgan offer more go forward but they offer alot less at the breakdown and at the lineout and there effectiveness over 80 minutes of interntional rugby has to be questioned as well (the fatties !)

England seem to be finding a whole generation of good young players now keenly vying for places in the senior squad. These lads would have been say, 11 -12 years old when England won the RWC, and just starting senior school rugby at around that time.
10 years later and are we seeing the fruits of the inspiration they may have then been given ? England has been getting so much earache about the size of England player pool, and the lack of commensurate successes since 2003. Is the young player pool now finally coming of age 10 years on ?

Armchairexpert wrote:I would be quite happy to see Billy V start on Sunday. Haskell played well enough when he came on but I have a bit of a question mark over starting a game with Wood at 8 when he is clearly not (as it seems they might given last weekend). I would prefer a traditional no.8. I also feel Haskell plays best as an impact sub (no facts to back that up). Then again it did go ok with wood at 8 so perhaps I am worrying over nothing.

I think I am more sure in the centres. I would start with the same as last week. Bring Tuilagi on as an impact sub. That means Barrit is there to Marshall the defence whilst BOD is fresh and Manu can take care of their tired defence. Then again perhaps Barrit is needed more when we get tired and Manu early against the choke tackle. Who knows

Finally I would like to see Brown at FB, but given the players released that would mean Strettle on the wing. Not convinced by that......

Ah, in the end perhaps I am happiest to leave it all to SL

I would bring the two Vunipola bros and Tuilagi all at the same time from the bench to hopefully cause some carnage with 20 minutes to go.

OP and Changes:

My major concern v Scotland was how easy they found it to attack through or over the England left wing. Brown is a good player, but is not comfortable on that wing. This will not have gone unnoticed in Ireland, and so I hope, the England camp. I hope Lancaster fixes that this week.

Didn't they only make one attack down that wing, set up because Brown muffed his kick?

Chequers
yes, that was one attack. Muffed kick and then followed by poor defensive positioning by Brown for 1st try.
And 2nd try down the same wing. The whole left wing / space behind thing made me feel nervous for a lot of the game.

Once again, I thought Brown's positioning was off when I first watched the match two. On replay, once he's given Hogg the ball with men outside him, there was nothing he could do, someone has to cover the overlap and Cole was on his way to tackle Hogg. Brown was at Fullback by the second try, no? On the other hand, I agree in that I'd play Brown at 15 or send him back to the Stoop

'Causing carnage' assumes that England have the ball.

The key to winning this match for Ireland is to successfully employ the 'choke tackle' at the breakdown. If they can starve England of quick posession at the ruck, as Scotland failed to do, then Tuilagi will be taking the ball static again and the Irish defence will be all over the English midfield. I dispute that Vunipola is capable of stopping this - or rather, that he is capable of making a big difference for the better.

Monye has been mentioned, maybe Chris Wade.
SL will announce the team later, or maybe tomorrow.
Just hope we see a specialist winger there.
Brown is a good player, but not there.

Jimpy they are big guys - big ball carriers. they can at least try and generate some momentum and make some ground.

beshocked wrote:Jimpy they are big guys - big ball carriers. they can at least try and generate some momentum and make some ground.

We can hope so, but it does beg the question from another article - are they experienced enough at international level to be able to exploit their strengths?

Sure you have heard of the saying.

"Because kids are fearless".

Sometimes using kids is refreshing... sometimes it backfires. Its a delicate balance. Depends on the individual player and their confidence levels.