The Crunch: Ireland v England Sunday 10th February 2013

First topic message reminder :

aka L'O'Choc: Irelande v Angleterre Dimanche le 10me Février 2013After going AWOL again yesterday, the French have most likely reduced the 6Ns title to a single game to determine the title.

Such a shame.

Discussion about the game - not about France going walkabout as originally intended.

Teams:

Greater Dublin Representative XXIII

15 - Rob Kearney (UCD/Leinster/42)
14 - Craig Gilroy (Dungannon/Ulster/2)
13 - Brian O'Driscoll (UCD/Leinster/121)
12 - Gordon D'Arcy (Lansdowne/Leinster/72)
11 - Simon Zebo (Cork Constitution/Munster/4)
10 - Jonathan Sexton (St.Mary's College/Leinster/35)
9 - Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster/15)
1 - Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster/36)
2 - Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster/63)
3 - Mike Ross (Clontarf/Leinster/25)
4 - Mike McCarthy (Buccaneers/Connacht/7)
5 - Donnacha Ryan (Shannon/Munster/24)
6 - Peter O'Mahony (Cork Constitution/Munster/10)
7 - Sean O'Brien (UCD/Leinster/23)
8 - Jamie Heaslip (Dublin University/Leinster/53) Captain

Replacements:

16 - Sean Cronin (St. Mary's College/Leinster/23)
17 - David Kilcoyne (UL Bohemians/Munster/3)
18 - Declan Fitzpatrick (Dungannon/Ulster/3)
19 - Donncha O'Callaghan (Cork Constitution/Munster/91)
20 - Chris Henry (Malone/Ulster/5)
21 - Eoin Reddan (Lansdowne/Leinster/48)
22 - Ronan O'Gara (Cork Constitution/Munster/126)
23 - Keith Earls (Young Munster/Munster/35)

The Perfidious Albion

15. Alex Goode (Saracens, 7 caps)
14. Chris Ashton (Saracens, 30 caps)
13. Brad Barritt (Saracens, 12 caps)
12. Billy Twelvetrees (Gloucester Rugby, 1 caps)
11. Mike Brown (Harlequins, 12 caps)
10. Owen Farrell (Saracens, 13 caps)
9. Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 29 caps)

1. Joe Marler (Harlequins, 6 caps)
2. Tom Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 5 caps)
3. Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers, 36 caps)
4. Joe Launchbury (London Wasps, 5 caps)
5. Geoff Parling (Leicester Tigers, 13 caps)
6. James Haskell (London Wasps, 46 caps)
7. Chris Robshaw (Harlequins, capt, 13 caps)
8. Tom Wood (Northampton Saints, 10 caps)

Replacements
16. Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints, 43 caps)
17. David Wilson (Bath Rugby, 23 caps)
18. Mako Vunipola (Saracens, 5 caps)
19. Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints, 16 caps)
20. Thomas Waldrom (Leicester Tigers, 4 caps)
21. Danny Care (Harlequins, 38 caps)
22. Toby Flood (Leicester Tigers, 54 caps)
23. Manusamoa Tuilagi (Leicester Tigers, 17 caps)

Wow, that was such a dull game for a neutral.

Well done England, but Ireland were truly atrocious - I don't know how they will deal without Healy and Sexton

Healy deserves a lengthy ban but it'll probably be only 6-8 weeks,he had a discipline problem when he started out but seemed to have cut it out.That was a step back and he will hopefully cop himself on,it was dirty and if someone had done that to an Irish player I'd be screaming blue murder.

yappysnap wrote:

HammerofThunor wrote:Thing is Cole wasn't even in the way. Best had the ball in his hands and was standing over Cole. It was a collapsed maul and Best was still upright at the back. Completely and utterly pointless. And it looks like he went down with another stamp after the first.

Completely agree. That and the punches mean he can not be allowed to play any more 6Ns games.

Cant believe K Woods reaction though and trying to make out like it was nothing.

I think Wood was at least fair about the swinging arms in the ruck.

Hood83 wrote:

yappysnap wrote:

HammerofThunor wrote:Thing is Cole wasn't even in the way. Best had the ball in his hands and was standing over Cole. It was a collapsed maul and Best was still upright at the back. Completely and utterly pointless. And it looks like he went down with another stamp after the first.

Completely agree. That and the punches mean he can not be allowed to play any more 6Ns games.

Cant believe K Woods reaction though and trying to make out like it was nothing.

I think Wood was at least fair about the swinging arms in the ruck.

agree, if they made contact it should of been a red. But all we could see was a swinging arm, not if it's made contact.

I defy any two other sides to serve up a feast of rugby in those conditions. Very harsh to be too critical.

As most thought beforehand, there was very little between the units. The front row - a score draw. Ireland's boiler room - slightly better, I thought. The back row, perhaps England held a slight edge, but only a slight one.

The halves were where England looked far better. I though the younger Youngs, so to speak, had one of his most thoughtful and best games for England. Barritt was arguably the most effective centre on view. The conditions were made for him, and it is he who should be the first name on England's centre list, rather than either of the two fizzy stars.

Wasn't much of a day for back threes to shine, but Brown showed the benefit of a second full-back in the back 3 - why did Ireland not target Ashton more with the high kicks?

So, very little to choose between the sides. Why did England win? Composure and attention to detail, I'd say. The team with half the number of caps looked the more experienced side on the day, and that has won them the game, for me. I was surprised before the game when Keith Wood felt that the weather would favour Ireland - I thought that it played right into England's hands.

Congrats to England and good luck for your remaining games - well all but one of them so that Ireland still have a shot at the championship

Difference for me was Ireland's poor/aimless kicking combined with England dealing with said kicks well, and the error count for Ireland in the first half meaning we couldn't build any momentum when we had good territory. Credit to England though, you played in the right places and took your penalty chances when they came, better team on the day won.

Healey will and should get a ban that rules him out of all or most of the remaining games.

Another game of rugby largely spoilt by the weather.

Still I thought England deserved to win - they were pretty composed throughout. The 2011 rout seems a long time ago.

Healy will get 1 or 2 weeks if recent punishments are anything to go by.
Chuck in remorse, good character (ish), lack of injury to the player, making sure his fly is done up in the hearing etc.
Not a dirty player, but very stupid today I fear. Of course I wouldn't say that to his face.

Hood83 wrote:

yappysnap wrote:

HammerofThunor wrote:Thing is Cole wasn't even in the way. Best had the ball in his hands and was standing over Cole. It was a collapsed maul and Best was still upright at the back. Completely and utterly pointless. And it looks like he went down with another stamp after the first.

Completely agree. That and the punches mean he can not be allowed to play any more 6Ns games.

Cant believe K Woods reaction though and trying to make out like it was nothing.

I think Wood was at least fair about the swinging arms in the ruck.

Well I could see where Woods was coming from more than that pillock Inverdull when he ambushed him with the texts/tweets/emails from the wailing masses.

Healy lost his nut, that is the nature of these full-blooded test matches between Ireland and England, I'm pretty sure it will be sorted out between the two players over a few beers tonight, and by the appropriate disciplinary panel during the week. It goes with the turf.

But for a bell-end like Inverdull to berate Woods with the screechers from the home counties bemoaning how it would reflect on little Johnny and whether or not he would be allowed to play rugby any more?

Total disrespect. Woods has been there, had it done to him and done it to others, he knows the score and is an Ireland and Lions legend, I'd back his judgement over the Daily Wailers any day.

If little Johnny can't handle the punishment that tends to get meeted out (wrongly according to the Laws, I would add) when he's interfering at a ruck, he should go and get a more dishonest job, perhaps with daddy in investment banking.

Well done England. Very impressed with your young team`s cool under pressure and the influence Stu has had on the attitude of the squad.

Farrell stepped up as a young leader today as well. He's a young JW.

That squad will only get stronger and the timing is excellent for the RWC.

Was a shoite day for open-rugby or basic ball-handling on our part , but the fact is, England played the conditions far better than we did.

Love to see Madigan drafted into the squad now. He's a great attacking option and his kicking from the tee and from hand, has been as good as Sexton or ROG's. At least we would learn something new from this 6-N. And Fitz back in too now.

As for Ireland? A lot depends on whether Kidney stays or leaves. If we lose against a shoite France in Dublin, he should go

Silly post, PJH. Inverdale is there to represent the fans - in the red button discussion he did that calmly and reasonably. Wood agreed that on reflection a ban was in order, while Nicol stated he thought on first viewing a red card was deserved.


On a side note many thanks to the Irish fans on here. Balanced and reasonable posts guys.

LondonTiger wrote:Silly post, PJH. Inverdale is there to represent the fans - in the red button discussion he did that calmly and reasonably. Wood agreed that on reflection a ban was in order, while Nicol stated he thought on first viewing a red card was deserved.


On a side note many thanks to the Irish fans on here. Balanced and reasonable posts guys.

Don't patronise me LT, Inverdull is a BBC journalist and is therefore duty-bound to be impartial, it's his job to be an objective journalist NOT to "represent the fans", that's a "silly" post LT, very silly.

If he was being objective, or was any good at his job, he could have tackled Woods himself rather than resort to regurgitating the bile spouted from the annual 6N brigade.#

Bang out of order, both of you.

asoreleftshoulder wrote:Healy deserves a lengthy ban but it'll probably be only 6-8 weeks,he had a discipline problem when he started out but seemed to have cut it out.That was a step back and he will hopefully cop himself on,it was dirty and if someone had done that to an Irish player I'd be screaming blue murder.

I'm not sure if it was what tipped him over, but T Youngs had flown into a ruck (perfectly legally) at about a hundred miles an hour, he has a tendency to charge in from about 100 miles away. I think Healy reacted to that. Such a good player and I'd say definitely first choice for the Lions, but he didn't have a great day.

PJHolybloke wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:Silly post, PJH. Inverdale is there to represent the fans - in the red button discussion he did that calmly and reasonably. Wood agreed that on reflection a ban was in order, while Nicol stated he thought on first viewing a red card was deserved.


On a side note many thanks to the Irish fans on here. Balanced and reasonable posts guys.

Don't patronise me LT, Inverdull is a BBC journalist and is therefore duty-bound to be impartial, it's his job to be an objective journalist NOT to "represent the fans", that's a "silly" post LT, very silly.

If he was being objective, or was any good at his job, he could have tackled Woods himself rather than resort to regurgitating the bile spouted from the annual 6N brigade.#

Bang out of order, both of you.

Jeez man, get off your high horse and go and chill out man.

Zebo out for 10 weeks, Sexton with a hamstring tear (likely 4-8 weeks) Healy getting at least 4 for the stamp, Ryan, McCarthy, O'Brien and O'Driscoll all carrying knocks after that.

Assuming all fit for next time, with the injuries and Church's moment of madness I'd go for

1. Court 2. Best 3. Ross 4. McCarthy 5. Ryan 6. O'Brien 7. Henry 8. Heaslip 9. Murray 10. Jackson 11. Fitzgerald 12. D'Arcy 13. O'Driscoll 14. Gilroy 15. Kearney
16. Cronin 17. Kilcoyne 18. Fitzpatrick 19. Henderson 20. O'Mahony 21. Reddan 22. Madigan 23. Earls

nathan wrote:

PJHolybloke wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:Silly post, PJH. Inverdale is there to represent the fans - in the red button discussion he did that calmly and reasonably. Wood agreed that on reflection a ban was in order, while Nicol stated he thought on first viewing a red card was deserved.


On a side note many thanks to the Irish fans on here. Balanced and reasonable posts guys.

Don't patronise me LT, Inverdull is a BBC journalist and is therefore duty-bound to be impartial, it's his job to be an objective journalist NOT to "represent the fans", that's a "silly" post LT, very silly.

If he was being objective, or was any good at his job, he could have tackled Woods himself rather than resort to regurgitating the bile spouted from the annual 6N brigade.#

Bang out of order, both of you.

Jeez man, get off your high horse and go and chill out man.

My high horse?

We will have to agree to disagree. Inverdale is often not great - but I had no issues with how he handled things. Keith Wood also handled himself well. Phil Matthews during the commentary was silly in extreme.

alot of hate for someone who is very impartial..

i dont even notice him.

UlstermaninGlasgow wrote:Zebo out for 10 weeks, Sexton with a hamstring tear (likely 4-8 weeks) Healy getting at least 4 for the stamp, Ryan, McCarthy, O'Brien and O'Driscoll all carrying knocks after that.

Assuming all fit for next time, with the injuries and Church's moment of madness I'd go for

1. Court 2. Best 3. Ross 4. McCarthy 5. Ryan 6. O'Brien 7. Henry 8. Heaslip 9. Murray 10. Jackson 11. Fitzgerald 12. D'Arcy 13. O'Driscoll 14. Gilroy 15. Kearney
16. Cronin 17. Kilcoyne 18. Fitzpatrick 19. Henderson 20. O'Mahony 21. Reddan 22. Madigan 23. Earls

10 weeks, such a shame, I wanted to see more of Zebo in the 6 nations.

Excellent win for England, after last week’s off-loading game-plan we had a game full of dog.

As for the Healy stamp – any attempt at ending a player’s career shows what the man is all about: a disgusting cowardly creep. That’s his 6N over and hopefully his Lion’s done. We can’t have someone like that representing B&I. Really unimpressed by the apologist Wood and typical mealy mouth from Guscott.

LondonTiger wrote:We will have to agree to disagree. Inverdale is often not great - but I had no issues with how he handled things. Keith Wood also handled himself well. Phil Matthews during the commentary was silly in extreme.

I don't have a problem with you disagreeing LT, but I do have an issue with you patronsing me and labelling my post as silly, particularly as your main thrust was that Inverdale is paid to represent fans.

We all have opinions and are entitled to them (except for BBC journalists on the job that is), as far as I'm concerned Inverdale did not, in any way, balance his use of the tweets/texts/emails and that is a major journalistic sin, to do it to Keith Woods specifically when at the time the incident was initially discussed, neither of his felloiw panellists was calling for an instant red either, was nothing short of totally disrespectful.

But that's just my opinion.

10 weeks for a metatarsl? Blimey. Real shame - as I have seen very little of Zebo so far - and tbh not been blown away with what I saw. With all the rave reviews I was desperate to see more of him.

Barney McGrew did it wrote:Excellent win for England, after last week’s off-loading game-plan we had a game full of dog.

As for the Healy stamp – any attempt at ending a player’s career shows what the man is all about: a disgusting cowardly creep. That’s his 6N over and hopefully his Lion’s done. We can’t have someone like that representing B&I. Really unimpressed by the apologist Wood and typical mealy mouth from Guscott.

Oh get a grip man. It was a ridiculous thing to do, and he totally lost his head and will be deservedly punished for it, but what you say is just beyond stupid. Do you honestly think he was attempting to end the career of another player? Do you really think that after witnessing his mistake you can now make such claims about his character? Wise up and get off your high horse. You know nothing about the guy.

A rugby player should NEVER deliberately stamp on the joint of another player.

NEVER!

He should not have done it. I am very disappointed that he did it and he should have been carded.

But can someone show me the part where he tried to end someone's career? Cole wasn't even injured as far as I could see and played nearly the full match. I can see how a fully weighted stamp on an ankle could cause significant damage but I don't see this stamp as anything like that.

I repeat, shouldn't have done it. Should have been carded but career ending?

Perhaps a little less hyperbole would be in order, no?

MrsP, it's just as well Hartley didn't do it, eh?

Dead bloomin right!!!!

I know all I need to know – stamping on the ankle is a well worn path to putting a player out. I’m prepared to ignore his punching but not the ankle stamp. Really not interested in the apologist POV.

Well done to England. 10 year record gone. Another milestone in Deccie's glorious reign.

But once again, the pathetic performance annoys me much more than the result. Ireland were once a smart team. The provinces are still smart teams. Ireland are dumb. So often out-thought and yet again fail to adapt to the conditions.

Mind you I think England would have won in dry conditions too. Building nicely for the RWC. And we can't even make ourselves feel better by calling them arrogant anymore.

It was pre-meditated and he aimed for Cole's ankle, what the hell did he think he was doing if it wasn't to injure him? The ball had alrady been secured so the ONLY thing he could have been thinking was to cause damage to one of the most vunrable joints in the human body. If Cole's ankle had been broken which I'm surpised it wasn't that would have ruled him out for at least 9 months. The man is a disgrace and deserves a long long ban and does not deserve to pull on the red jersey of the B&I Lions.

Clueless.

The stamp wont end Cole's career - but its much harder to fix things like ankles than it is to fix peoples faces (bar the eyes)

The most famous ankle stamp I can think of was Jamie Joseph on Kyran Bracken -It didnt end his career but he was never rid of it - it is a serious business.

About Healy's cowardly stamp, I thought Cole was extremely lucky not to have his lower leg broken. Please be a lengthy ban, hopefully for the rest of the Six Nations.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

Clueless.

apologist

nathan wrote:

Recwatcher wrote:Was it Coles ankle that got studded by Healy ? I think it was and the scrums went far better for Ireland afterwards.....

The conditions certainly affected the game but RL defences now sadly dominate a once great game. England suffocated Ireland, who tried to play some rugby. As an Englishman I will take the result but the international game is going down the wrong path.

so we have one weekend of great running pretty rugby, then 1 ugly weekend dictated by the weather ans suddenly the world of international rugby is going down the wrong path.

What is it with all the doom and gloom merchants on this forum.

And there was nothing wrong with the scotland game as a spectacle

By those criteria young Moriarty sould be facing a charge of attempted murder then.

This is just silly.

He should NOT have done it but the suggestions about his intent to cause injury are unbelievable. I suspect that most prop forwards could have broken Cole's ankle in those circumstances if they had been of a mind to. If that was Healey's intention why was Cole uninjured?

If someone of Healy's size decides to break your ankle in those circumstances, your ankle would be broken.

I repeat. I am in no way condoning, excusing or justifying his actions but some of this stuff is just beyond the pale.

wrfc1980 wrote:It was pre-meditated and he aimed for Cole's ankle, what the hell did he think he was doing if it wasn't to injure him? The ball had alrady been secured so the ONLY thing he could have been thinking was to cause damage to one of the most vunrable joints in the human body. If Cole's ankle had been broken which I'm surpised it wasn't that would have ruled him out for at least 9 months. The man is a disgrace and deserves a long long ban and does not deserve to pull on the red jersey of the B&I Lions.

Open your other eye. Cole was clearly on the wrong side blocking release of the ball. these things always look worse than they are on slow motion the ball popped out as his leg was stamped on funny that. Short ban but quite possibly none - yellow card for careless use of the boot?

TJ wrote:

nathan wrote:

Recwatcher wrote:Was it Coles ankle that got studded by Healy ? I think it was and the scrums went far better for Ireland afterwards.....

The conditions certainly affected the game but RL defences now sadly dominate a once great game. England suffocated Ireland, who tried to play some rugby. As an Englishman I will take the result but the international game is going down the wrong path.

so we have one weekend of great running pretty rugby, then 1 ugly weekend dictated by the weather ans suddenly the world of international rugby is going down the wrong path.

What is it with all the doom and gloom merchants on this forum.

And there was nothing wrong with the scotland game as a spectacle

Very true indeed. I do wonder sometimes if people should just watch league or 7's.

Barney, have you ever played rugby to any sort of reasonable level? Ever played a competitive game?

Your comments suggest otherwise. In a game of such high intensity, a game based on contact and aggression, losing your temper CAN occur. That does not make it right, or justify it, but to start making such ridiculous accusations on the character of a person is ludicrous to the extreme. I think I can now see why Biltong gets so wound up about the constant digs made against the SA team for being dirty.

I am sure you are a person above any such acts though, and you are in the perfect position to make these judgement calls.

TJ wrote:

wrfc1980 wrote:It was pre-meditated and he aimed for Cole's ankle, what the hell did he think he was doing if it wasn't to injure him? The ball had alrady been secured so the ONLY thing he could have been thinking was to cause damage to one of the most vunrable joints in the human body. If Cole's ankle had been broken which I'm surpised it wasn't that would have ruled him out for at least 9 months. The man is a disgrace and deserves a long long ban and does not deserve to pull on the red jersey of the B&I Lions.

Open your other eye. Cole was clearly on the wrong side blocking release of the ball. these things always look worse than they are on slow motion the ball popped out as his leg was stamped on funny that. Short ban but quite possibly none - yellow card for careless use of the boot?

Blocking release of the ball? Best had it in his hands?

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Barney, have you ever played rugby to any sort of reasonable level? Ever played a competitive game?

Your comments suggest otherwise. In a game of such high intensity, a game based on contact and aggression, losing your temper CAN occur. That does not make it right, or justify it, but to start making such ridiculous accusations on the character of a person is ludicrous to the extreme. I think I can now see why Biltong gets so wound up about the constant digs made against the SA team for being dirty.

I am sure you are a person above any such acts though, and you are in the perfect position to make these judgement calls.

Hmmm, I'm fairly sure you've had some choice words about Hartley in the past.

TJ wrote:

wrfc1980 wrote:It was pre-meditated and he aimed for Cole's ankle, what the hell did he think he was doing if it wasn't to injure him? The ball had alrady been secured so the ONLY thing he could have been thinking was to cause damage to one of the most vunrable joints in the human body. If Cole's ankle had been broken which I'm surpised it wasn't that would have ruled him out for at least 9 months. The man is a disgrace and deserves a long long ban and does not deserve to pull on the red jersey of the B&I Lions.

Open your other eye. Cole was clearly on the wrong side blocking release of the ball. these things always look worse than they are on slow motion the ball popped out as his leg was stamped on funny that. Short ban but quite possibly none - yellow card for careless use of the boot?

Whatever - your opinions count for nothing on here

The stamp was awful. It's the most awful thing I’ve seen on a pitch since Clarke tried to snap that lads arm. I'm really glad that Cole was alright and that he was able to play on, for his and Healy's sake. I always thought that one of the unwritten rules of rugby was that you always ruck meat (arse, back, thighs) and never bone (joints and the head). From that moment in the game i wanted England to win and I’m glad they did. Healy has gone down in my estimation. Dreadful thing to do, it’s not part of the game.

All I know is this, when you play rugby as a forward, a good portion of your game enrgy is focussed on putting pain on your opponent in the tackle area, you want to hit your target so hard you knock the feckin granny out of him.

You do that so that two things might occur, the first is that he will learn that you are dangerous to him and he will respect you, the second is that he may be intimidated and not fancy carrying the ball much and will therefore feck up his game.

You expect your opponent to do exactly the same to you until one or neither of you gives up.

That element of the game requires a massive amount of discipline in order for the means of dispensing said pain, to remain on the legal side of the Laws, sometimes players cross the line.

Whenever players do cross that line, it causes people who do not understand that principle, to label them as Psychotic, homicidal thugs.

It is those people who are most out of order, the players are merely human, they make mistakes.

nathan wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Barney, have you ever played rugby to any sort of reasonable level? Ever played a competitive game?

Your comments suggest otherwise. In a game of such high intensity, a game based on contact and aggression, losing your temper CAN occur. That does not make it right, or justify it, but to start making such ridiculous accusations on the character of a person is ludicrous to the extreme. I think I can now see why Biltong gets so wound up about the constant digs made against the SA team for being dirty.

I am sure you are a person above any such acts though, and you are in the perfect position to make these judgement calls.

Hmmm, I'm fairly sure you've had some choice words about Hartley in the past.

You must have some memory then because I can't remember it myself. I am not sure how you would remember my posts though. You have done this on me before, digging up posts from 6 months earlier to try and prove me wrong. If you really have the time to do the same again, go ahead. Honestly I would love to hear what choice words I have apparently said regarding Hartley. If I have said anything similar to what has been said above regarding Healy I will happily admit to being wrong.

Ha ha nothing ever changes on here , not posted anything in well over a year and that was not very often .

Nice to see you all still getting along nicely .

PJHolybloke wrote:All I know is this, when you play rugby as a forward, a good portion of your game enrgy is focussed on putting pain on your opponent in the tackle area, you want to hit your target so hard you knock the feckin granny out of him.

You do that so that two things might occur, the first is that he will learn that you are dangerous to him and he will respect you, the second is that he may be intimidated and not fancy carrying the ball much and will therefore feck up his game.

You expect your opponent to do exactly the same to you until one or neither of you gives up.

That element of the game requires a massive amount of discipline in order for the means of dispensing said pain, to remain on the legal side of the Laws, sometimes players cross the line.

Whenever players do cross that line, it causes people who do not understand that principle, to label them as Psychotic, homicidal thugs.

It is those people who are most out of order, the players are merely human, they make mistakes.

+1 PJ

Healy did it in the heat of the moment. He'll regret it for the rest of the 6N when he's on the sidelines for 2 of the last 3 games. BUT he did not do it to purposely injury Cole.

It would be very interesting to hear Dan Cole's thoughts on the incident.

I suspect they would be pretty close to PJ's.

But now I'm the one trying to guess what is in a player's mind.

For what it is worth I am VERY disappointed in what Healy did, but I am not going to immediately start making ridiculous claims about what sort of person he is.

I would say many of the people doing so right now are being hypocritical to the extreme.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Barney, have you ever played rugby to any sort of reasonable level? Ever played a competitive game?

Your comments suggest otherwise. In a game of such high intensity, a game based on contact and aggression, losing your temper CAN occur. That does not make it right, or justify it, but to start making such ridiculous accusations on the character of a person is ludicrous to the extreme. I think I can now see why Biltong gets so wound up about the constant digs made against the SA team for being dirty.

I am sure you are a person above any such acts though, and you are in the perfect position to make these judgement calls.

Behave! Personnal insults and the "have you ever played" routine is for losers. As a former hooker I'm well versed in the cut and thrust of rugby. Gouging and ankle stamps have no place in test rugby. Do you know better than me his intent, maybe he's given you a call. My judgement is based on my 2 eyes. What's yours based on? Let's see what the citing procedure throws up.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Barney, have you ever played rugby to any sort of reasonable level? Ever played a competitive game?

Your comments suggest otherwise. In a game of such high intensity, a game based on contact and aggression, losing your temper CAN occur. That does not make it right, or justify it, but to start making such ridiculous accusations on the character of a person is ludicrous to the extreme. I think I can now see why Biltong gets so wound up about the constant digs made against the SA team for being dirty.

I am sure you are a person above any such acts though, and you are in the perfect position to make these judgement calls.

Accusations of character that are made against England players/fans routinely by other home nations. Yet although an Irish player is on the receiving end of it this time, I have no doubt that the dead horse of English being 'arrogant', 'cocky', blah, blah will be trotted out anytime it suits.

Today Healy was a thug. When he serves his ban, comes back, that's then. If Hartley had done the same thing on a Irish player? You'd be up in arms about it.