The Crunch: Ireland v England Sunday 10th February 2013

First topic message reminder :

aka L'O'Choc: Irelande v Angleterre Dimanche le 10me Février 2013After going AWOL again yesterday, the French have most likely reduced the 6Ns title to a single game to determine the title.

Such a shame.

Discussion about the game - not about France going walkabout as originally intended.

Teams:

Greater Dublin Representative XXIII

15 - Rob Kearney (UCD/Leinster/42)
14 - Craig Gilroy (Dungannon/Ulster/2)
13 - Brian O'Driscoll (UCD/Leinster/121)
12 - Gordon D'Arcy (Lansdowne/Leinster/72)
11 - Simon Zebo (Cork Constitution/Munster/4)
10 - Jonathan Sexton (St.Mary's College/Leinster/35)
9 - Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster/15)
1 - Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster/36)
2 - Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster/63)
3 - Mike Ross (Clontarf/Leinster/25)
4 - Mike McCarthy (Buccaneers/Connacht/7)
5 - Donnacha Ryan (Shannon/Munster/24)
6 - Peter O'Mahony (Cork Constitution/Munster/10)
7 - Sean O'Brien (UCD/Leinster/23)
8 - Jamie Heaslip (Dublin University/Leinster/53) Captain

Replacements:

16 - Sean Cronin (St. Mary's College/Leinster/23)
17 - David Kilcoyne (UL Bohemians/Munster/3)
18 - Declan Fitzpatrick (Dungannon/Ulster/3)
19 - Donncha O'Callaghan (Cork Constitution/Munster/91)
20 - Chris Henry (Malone/Ulster/5)
21 - Eoin Reddan (Lansdowne/Leinster/48)
22 - Ronan O'Gara (Cork Constitution/Munster/126)
23 - Keith Earls (Young Munster/Munster/35)

The Perfidious Albion

15. Alex Goode (Saracens, 7 caps)
14. Chris Ashton (Saracens, 30 caps)
13. Brad Barritt (Saracens, 12 caps)
12. Billy Twelvetrees (Gloucester Rugby, 1 caps)
11. Mike Brown (Harlequins, 12 caps)
10. Owen Farrell (Saracens, 13 caps)
9. Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 29 caps)

1. Joe Marler (Harlequins, 6 caps)
2. Tom Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 5 caps)
3. Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers, 36 caps)
4. Joe Launchbury (London Wasps, 5 caps)
5. Geoff Parling (Leicester Tigers, 13 caps)
6. James Haskell (London Wasps, 46 caps)
7. Chris Robshaw (Harlequins, capt, 13 caps)
8. Tom Wood (Northampton Saints, 10 caps)

Replacements
16. Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints, 43 caps)
17. David Wilson (Bath Rugby, 23 caps)
18. Mako Vunipola (Saracens, 5 caps)
19. Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints, 16 caps)
20. Thomas Waldrom (Leicester Tigers, 4 caps)
21. Danny Care (Harlequins, 38 caps)
22. Toby Flood (Leicester Tigers, 54 caps)
23. Manusamoa Tuilagi (Leicester Tigers, 17 caps)

Thom Rog had one or two good kicks in the game. The rest he just gave the ball away.

He did alright with some of his kicking for territory, we were never goign to win with him, it was always going to be a "respectable defeat" if Sexton is out for another game or two and we are stuck with the geriatric then we are bollixed.

I think Farrell, Youngs and Robshaw all did quite welll. Farrell and youngs controlled the game well and Robshaw was just everywhere as usual.

Brilliant win for England. Looked far more mature then Ireland who were pretty clueless at times.


Hope Healy gets a very long ban.

Don't see anything to stop England win grand slam now.

Heaslip must have taken a bang to the head. He thinks ~England dominated possession and territory.

both teams immense in the defense.. the way the irish hit our backs!! was something that NZ or scotland couldnt do or even SA (in that game we just lost before it)

I know it really seemed like a display from kids fighting half the time and it was littered with errors and in a way its hard to say either team has moved forward from the last game..

But on the plus side- both teams were exceptional in defense.. It would have taken something remarkable from any team to get a try!

and this is england in dublin- its a war, not a game of rugby!!!

george doors wrote:Don't see anything to stop England win grand slam now.

France in 2 weeks and Wales on the last weekend more than capable of winning. Italy should not be.

yappysnap wrote:Brilliant win for England. Looked far more mature then Ireland who were pretty clueless at times.


Hope Healy gets a very long ban.

We were clueless from the start, in the first half an hour we got into the English 22 6 times and came away with absolutely no points, that is inexcusable.

"France in 2 weeks and Wales on the last weekend more than capable of winning. Italy should not be."

dont wanna blow me trumpet but i think more than capable is pushing it. Capable on there day maybe.. but thats it. England strong favs

Hartley showed that he has to start the next game, Youngs lineout skills were just terrible especially in the second half were he gifted Ireland momentum ans territory.

Thought Youngs, Robshaw, Farrel and Brown were all brilliant at playing to the conditions.

Wood definitely isn't an 8 by any margin, caused us so many issues in the scrum by not getting the ball out quick. Still not sure about Goode at 15 either, he just doesn't offer much. Waldron off the bench was anonymous too.

Damn, that was so close. Well done, England - just kept their heads, made fewer mistakes and had Farrell kicking. That made the difference.

Only saw last 30 minutes so I didn't see what Healy did.

Er, what did he do?

Awful game. Both sides looked poor but Ireland made far too many errors. England took their chances and ground out the win.

Congrats to England, it was an away win in bad conditions.

Zebo fractured his metatarsal apparently. Now bollixed for the Heineken Cup as well. Fockkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

healy stamped on coles leg- hard and it was clearly on purpose 0 he also was swinging his arms pounching every one in the rucks. with no provication..

If he isnt banned for about 6 weeks i will be shocked

Thomond wrote:Zebo fractured his metatarsal apparently. Now bollixed for the Heineken Cup as well. Fockkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ouch, sorry to hear that.

Healy deserves to be banned for the stamp, Cole shouldn't have been there and Healy is entitled to get him out of the way but not the way he did it. Some of the lads on this team need to grow up.

Was it Coles ankle that got studded by Healy ? I think it was and the scrums went far better for Ireland afterwards.....

The conditions certainly affected the game but RL defences now sadly dominate a once great game. England suffocated Ireland, who tried to play some rugby. As an Englishman I will take the result but the international game is going down the wrong path.

mystiroakey wrote:healy stamped on coles leg- hard and it was clearly on purpose 0 he also was swinging his arms pounching every one in the rucks. with no provication..

If he isnt banned for about 6 weeks i will be shocked

How long did Hore get for trying to kill the welsh guy? Healy's wasnt near as bad so it shouldnt be too long..

valjester wrote:The match ended as a contest when Sexton got injured. Congratulations England, still a lot of work to be done, but building nicely, hopefully the next Irish coach will see the value of putting his faith in youth like Lancaster.

This. The second I noticed Sexton leave the field I knew the game was lost. Anyone who still defends ROG playing for either Munster or Ireland are quite clearly deluded and hanging on to the old tradition of ROG and his 10 man rugby. He can't create a thing, it was frankly embarrassing watching him. He just looked totally amateur.

If Sexton is injured for the next game, will Kidney really be stupid enough to start ROG? Is he THAT much of a plonker?

mystiroakey wrote:healy stamped on coles leg- hard and it was clearly on purpose

It was right on the ankle - and tbh was lucky not to cause a break. Cole needed treatment before half time, and apparently a lot of treatment during the half-time break. Adrenaline got him through the second half, and Lancaster's lack of faith in Wilson was evident, and sadly there are suggestions that Cole may not be fit for France in two weeks time.

I agree with what Keith Wood has said - on first look seemed to be a yellow, but on repeat viewings looks like he will get a holiday. Andy nicol reckons it should have been an immediate red card.

They've just said Zebo has a metatarsal injury.

George Carlin wrote:Damn, that was so close. Well done, England - just kept their heads, made fewer mistakes and had Farrell kicking. That made the difference.

Only saw last 30 minutes so I didn't see what Healy did.

Er, what did he do?

Ran in to a collapsed maul to stamp on Cole's ankle and was lucky not to end his career.

Then decided to go into a whole load of rucks swinging and punching anyEngland players near to him.

I am stunned that the ref and TJ's missed those incidents and hope the Irish fans have the decency to treat him with the same contempt they treated Hartley last season (unlike the Irish pundit who wanted to gloss over it).

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

valjester wrote:The match ended as a contest when Sexton got injured. Congratulations England, still a lot of work to be done, but building nicely, hopefully the next Irish coach will see the value of putting his faith in youth like Lancaster.

This. The second I noticed Sexton leave the field I knew the game was lost. Anyone who still defends ROG playing for either Munster or Ireland are quite clearly deluded and hanging on to the old tradition of ROG and his 10 man rugby. He can't create a thing, it was frankly embarrassing watching him. He just looked totally amateur.

If Sexton is injured for the next game, will Kidney really be stupid enough to start ROG? Is he THAT much of a plonker?

ROG will start the next few games. Sexton should be out a while with a hamstring injury.

Recwatcher wrote:Was it Coles ankle that got studded by Healy ? I think it was and the scrums went far better for Ireland afterwards.....

The conditions certainly affected the game but RL defences now sadly dominate a once great game. England suffocated Ireland, who tried to play some rugby. As an Englishman I will take the result but the international game is going down the wrong path.

Conditions were awful - the ball in hand was a liability. I'm afraid it was a game of chance - England were lucky but probably had the edge in tactics.
Can't really expect good running rugby in weather like that.

Recwatcher wrote:Was it Coles ankle that got studded by Healy ? I think it was and the scrums went far better for Ireland afterwards.....

The conditions certainly affected the game but RL defences now sadly dominate a once great game. England suffocated Ireland, who tried to play some rugby. As an Englishman I will take the result but the international game is going down the wrong path.

so we have one weekend of great running pretty rugby, then 1 ugly weekend dictated by the weather ans suddenly the world of international rugby is going down the wrong path.

What is it with all the doom and gloom merchants on this forum.

Well, DK has an opportunity now if he will take it. He is going to be missing some regulars for the next game at least and should be looking to bring youngsters through. If he lost games in the attempt I think he'd be forgiven.

That was a very close run thing and I think Ireland had the wrong mindset from the off. It was as if they just wanted a scrap and the hell with the rugby. They had every chance up front to show the England pack up in all but the breakdown and even there they had their moments. Credit to the lads for keeping their heads and deserving the win. England will have got a lot out of that game and will learn again just as they have consistently done, win or lose.

Sort yourselves out Ireland, you're better than that.

Thomond wrote:Healy deserves to be banned for the stamp, Cole shouldn't have been there and Healy is entitled to get him out of the way but not the way he did it. Some of the lads on this team need to grow up.

Well said Thomond. Healy in particular was acting like a complete idiot. He needs to wise up, he is arguably the best loosehead in the world, there is no need for him to act like that. O'Mahony also just gets on my nerves with his constant attempt at his macho persona, thinking he needs to get involved in every little bit of handbags. I don't know who he thinks he is impressing but it is taking away from his game, which is quite sad really.

I'm not one to usually gut ROG but he had a shocking game when he came on today and is damaging a great reputation by continuing on. My heart sank when I saw his 1st kick for touch. However, the blame cannot be laid solely at his feet today inspite of some shocking kicking.

The setpieces went well for Ireland but outside of that very little else did. The number of dropped catches and knockons was simply embarrassing to look at. The forwards put in a huge shift I thought and Best was again the stand out player for me but there was just nothing doing in the backline at all. You can't blame the weather as England had to deal with it too. Was impressed with Farrell and Ben Youngs and Goode.

Thing is Cole wasn't even in the way. Best had the ball in his hands and was standing over Cole. It was a collapsed maul and Best was still upright at the back. Completely and utterly pointless. And it looks like he went down with another stamp after the first.

So will Earls start on the wing in the next match or will Fitzgerald get back into an Irish shirt?

Golden wrote:So will Earls start on the wing in the next match or will Fitzgerald get back into an Irish shirt?

Isn't the answer obvious?

Earls actually did well with the ball he got to be fair, to criticise him would be incredibly harsh in all honesty, he did good enough to warrent a spot in my opinion.

Lots of interesting things but a game for which the result is going to be remembered more than anything else. The best thing for me - the most fantastic thing - is the same thing that happened against NZ. England were a man down - Ireland had some momentum - but England responded fantastically well. They turned the screw and put more pressure on Ireland than they could handle.

This England team are getting harder and harder to beat

To be honest I also thought Ireland looked very nervous before kick off.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

Golden wrote:So will Earls start on the wing in the next match or will Fitzgerald get back into an Irish shirt?

Isn't the answer obvious?

It should be Earls, he was good today with limited opportunity. The major question is does Kidney have the balls to start Madigan, or Jackson, at 10.

valjester wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

Golden wrote:So will Earls start on the wing in the next match or will Fitzgerald get back into an Irish shirt?

Isn't the answer obvious?

It should be Earls, he was good today with limited opportunity. The major question is does Kidney have the balls to start Madigan, or Jackson, at 10.

I think we all know the answer to that. It won't matter who we pick on the wing as they won't see the ball anyway.

I agree Thomond especially when he 1st came on I was impressed but it just completely reinforced the view that he is not, and should stop thinking he's a centre. Top class wing wasting his time at 13.

Goode did look very assured at the back - had a better game than last week IMO.

Earls did well when he came on, when Sexton was still on the field. Plus he prevented Tuilagi scoring a try.

Yeah think id start Earls and have fitz on the bench

Madigan or Jackson will be on the bench but wont be used.

HammerofThunor wrote:Thing is Cole wasn't even in the way. Best had the ball in his hands and was standing over Cole. It was a collapsed maul and Best was still upright at the back. Completely and utterly pointless. And it looks like he went down with another stamp after the first.

Completely agree. That and the punches mean he can not be allowed to play any more 6Ns games.

Cant believe K Woods reaction though and trying to make out like it was nothing.

As bad as this game may have looked I can't see either team getting beaten from here on in..

Cheers Thomand.. It's a game we should celebrate. Beating you in Ireland is the hardest task for us English

mystiroakey wrote:healy stamped on coles leg- hard and it was clearly on purpose 0 he also was swinging his arms pounching every one in the rucks. with no provication..

If he isnt banned for about 6 weeks i will be shocked

Sounds bad - cheers Oakey.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Earls did well when he came on, when Sexton was still on the field. Plus he prevented Tuilagi scoring a try.

Yeah completely illegally though.

valjester wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Earls did well when he came on, when Sexton was still on the field. Plus he prevented Tuilagi scoring a try.

Yeah completely illegally though.

He was competing for the ball I thought but there are grounds for argument alright

ChequeredJersey wrote:Should be a great match, good luck to both sides (more to England). Let's show the Welsh and French how a match of rugby should be played, eh?

So much for that!

yappysnap wrote:

George Carlin wrote:Damn, that was so close. Well done, England - just kept their heads, made fewer mistakes and had Farrell kicking. That made the difference.

Only saw last 30 minutes so I didn't see what Healy did.

Er, what did he do?

Ran in to a collapsed maul to stamp on Cole's ankle and was lucky not to end his career.

Then decided to go into a whole load of rucks swinging and punching anyEngland players near to him.

I am stunned that the ref and TJ's missed those incidents and hope the Irish fans have the decency to treat him with the same contempt they treated Hartley last season (unlike the Irish pundit who wanted to gloss over it).

Sounds ugly - thanks Yappy.

All I can say re healey- I that he must have been on another planet pumped..

dont wanna say he was on some insane drug- but boy his adrenaline took him eslewhere- he looked like tyson during a bad day!

Lucky not to end his career is a bit dramatic I think, but he certainly deserves a ban 4 to 6 weeks would be enough. No one got banned for kicking Johnny in the face last week from what I know that was for more dangerous.

The fact that I care more about Zebo being out for the HC (10 weeks allegedly) shows how Deccie has drained the optimism out of Ireland.