Wladimir Klitschko vs........

First topic message reminder :

http://www.eastsideboxing.com/2013/wladimir-klitschko-could-face-fres-oquendo-in-april-oquendo-says-talks-are-ongoing/

what do people think to this potential contest?

And why would he choose to fight Mitchell? Mitchell was untested and the first fight he had against a decent but not great opponent in Banks he lost.

Wlad would get slated for fighting a guy who his trainer has just beat.

Think about what you are saying before you say it.

I'm surprised you never mentioned Vitali as a possible opponent as you just seemed to name any HW you have heard of.

Why fight Oquendo when he's been beaten by an ancient Oliver McCall and Mormeck. All the names I mentioned are far more reasonable tests, only a blind man would suggest otherwise.

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Why fight Oquendo when he's been beaten by an ancient Oliver McCall and Mormeck. All the names I mentioned are far more reasonable tests, only a blind man would suggest otherwise.

Only a blind man believes he lost to mormeck.

Wlad wanted Solis but couldn't get him. I have already mentioned why the other fighters are not suitable. Wlad is 37 and has a big fight lined up against the best challenger in Povetkin.

So you honestly believe Oquendo is a better option than say Adamek purely because he was beaten by Vitali yet Oquendo was beaten by Ruiz, McCall, Toney, Holyfield and Byrd. Have you seen the Mormeck fight then Victor?

victorgarco wrote:

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Why fight Oquendo when he's been beaten by an ancient Oliver McCall and Mormeck. All the names I mentioned are far more reasonable tests, only a blind man would suggest otherwise.

Only a blind man believes he lost to mormeck.

Wlad wanted Solis but couldn't get him. I have already mentioned why the other fighters are not suitable. Wlad is 37 and has a big fight lined up against the best challenger in Povetkin.

The fact that Mormeck ran his close (and won) says a lot about Fres don't you think?

How do you know Wlad wanted Solis?

Imperial Ghosty wrote:So you honestly believe Oquendo is a better option than say Adamek purely because he was beaten by Vitali yet Oquendo was beaten by Ruiz, McCall, Toney, Holyfield and Byrd. Have you seen the Mormeck fight then Victor?

Just because Adamek is the better fighter does not mean that it is the better option for Wlad to take. Wlad would get heavily criticised if he fought Adamek because of what Vitali did to him. Also you have to ask the question would Adamek fight Wlad after what happened to him against the now less able brother Vitali? Boxing is not as simple as saying Wlad should fight Adamek or Arreola. there's a lot of politics involved.

I believe that 50% of the names you mentioned would not be suitable to fight wlad, either because they would say no or because the public would laugh at the fight eg Mitchell. the other 50% you mentioned are not exactly great fighters and some of them are ranked lower than Oquendo.

And as I said earlier this looks like a keep busy fight before Wlad takes on the number 1 challenger in povetkin. If the fight is just to keep wlad in shape then why should he go after a more dangerous opponent (not that any opponent would stand a chance against him). Wlad is 37 and is probably finding that he has to train more to keep in shape so maybe this fight is just to keep him in shape.

But just to remind you that the Oquendo fight has not been confirmed and I actually think it has been denied by the Wlad camp.

I hope Oquendo is a BS story, he is shot, with no power. Solis would be ok but the chances of him weighing less than 250 pounds are slim to none, i'm starting to come round to the idea of a rematch with Haye would at least bring a little bit of buzz back. Fair enough it was pretty one sided but Haye is dangerous and Wlad wants to KO him, obviously that's not an option as a keep busy fight but if the opportunity arose then there's far worse options that could be taken.

Adamek and Pulev are realistic options that would be willing to face Wlad I think.

Helenius still seems to be easing back into things after a bad injury. Fury/Price/Wilder dont want it. Doubt Boystov does either given hes yet to face pretty much any top challenger. Arreola I think is sitting in wait for the WBC belt and given his Hispanic backround should find it easy to get a shot when Vitali calls it a day.

Imperial Ghosty wrote:You could probably name at least 20 current heavyweights better than Oquendo, he lost to Mormeck for Christ sake.

Really puts him in to perspective as an opponent. It's slim pickings out there in the HW division, but this guy? Really?

I would LOVE to see Wlad fight Wilder, right now. It would mean that Wlad would have to face someone with no fear and half decent size and power who would have a go from the opening bell.

I have absolutely no doubts that Wlad would win, but at least it'd be entertaining!!

Mr Bounce wrote:I would LOVE to see Wlad fight Wilder, right now. It would mean that Wlad would have to face someone with no fear and half decent size and power who would have a go from the opening bell.

I have absolutely no doubts that Wlad would win, but at least it'd be entertaining!!

The thing is, Wilder and his team probably think the exact same thing!

Wladimir ain't losing to any tall, upright fighter at distance any time soon, which is why I'd probably like Pulev to step up out of all the emerging Heavyweight contenders more than any other, or at least once Wladimir's done away with the lingering presence of Povetkin. I'm not particularly convinced that Pulev can pull the upset, but he's a wee bit different from the other lumbering behemoths out there and does at least bring some speed, head movement and aggression to the party, although he'll need to sort his conditioning out.

Whether we rate them or not, it's very likely that the Pulevs, Furys, Wilders and Prices of this world will be sometime holders of the Heavyweight straps once Wladimir has departed, so taking a couple of them out before he hangs the gloves up will be worthwhile for his legacy.

So victor losing to Mormeck is better than losing to Vitali. Wlad would get slated far less for fighting Adamek that he would fighting Oquendo.

Imperial Ghosty wrote:So victor losing to Mormeck is better than losing to Vitali. Wlad would get slated far less for fighting Adamek that he would fighting Oquendo.

Actually read my posts before you reply.

I did it was mainly gibberish, who would be a better opponent for him, a simple name without the needless waffle will suffice.

Imperial Ghosty wrote:I did it was mainly gibberish, who would be a better opponent for him, a simple name without the needless waffle will suffice.

Seriously, you need to read posts more carefully otherwise you will continue to look clueless.

Just a simple answer will suffice instead of your usual inane ramblings.

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Just a simple answer will suffice instead of your usual inane ramblings.

You have just asked me the same question I have been asking you which you have not been able to answer. I asked you to name a better opponent than oquendo who is ranked 5th and who would be WILLING to fight Wlad.

You mentioned Adamek and i said that it would not be a fight wlad gets credit for as people view adamek as a blown up cruiserweight who got smashed by vitali in a 1 sided beating. Moreover Adamek has not come out and said he wants Wlad and he might refuse the fight due to the beating he sustained against vitali.

you said mitchell and I replied that Wlad would get laughed at for fighting a guy who his trainer knocked out.

banks- why would wlad fight his trainer?

Arreola- took a beating against Vitali and I beleive he is in a final eliminator fight and the winner faces Vitali. Why would he face wlad and get a beating and potentially ruin his career when he could rematch the now ageing and much slower vitali. Moreover Vitali will probably retire after 1 more fight meaning Arreola gets a shot at the WBC belt and does not have to face a Klitschko.

Negotiations against solis seemed to fail.

Wlad is fighting the number 1 challenger Povetkin later this year.

Who is there to fight? Instead of just plucking names out of the air like you have been doing maybe just accept that there are few fights Wlad can take due to fighters ducking him or other circumstances. Fighting a 5th ranked opponent as a warm up before facing an olympic champion and arguably the 3rd best HW in the division is not that bad a decision especially if all the other named fighters wont fight.

victor, you refusal to accept there are better fights for wlad at the moment do lead me to wonder if you have ever seen fres fight? this guy is used as a punch bag in sparring by haye, never won a meaningful fight really, and is 39 years old. he should be fighting price or fury or somebody about that level.

why do they need to be ranked 5th to be considered a challanger? as the other 3 fighters ranked 5th are haye, boystov and banks then i would suggest boystov, but even challengers like charr would be a better "keep warm" fight for wlad, who shouldn't even be having those type of fights if you think he is that much better even the best challangers out there.

eddyfightfan wrote:victor, you refusal to accept there are better fights for wlad at the moment do lead me to wonder if you have ever seen fres fight? this guy is used as a punch bag in sparring by haye, never won a meaningful fight really, and is 39 years old. he should be fighting price or fury or somebody about that level.

why do they need to be ranked 5th to be considered a challanger? as the other 3 fighters ranked 5th are haye, boystov and banks then i would suggest boystov, but even challengers like charr would be a better "keep warm" fight for wlad, who shouldn't even be having those type of fights if you think he is that much better even the best challangers out there.

I have stated in previous posts why a fight against other named opponents wont work. If you are naming Charr as an alternative you are scraping the barrel.

I'm not saying Fres is the best fighter out there but due to boxing politics and other cicumstances he is probably the highest ranked opponent Wlad could face in a warm up before facing the best HW challenger in Povetkin later this year.

We're talking about a guy who isn't within the top 20/30 heavyweights in the world.

victorgarco wrote:

eddyfightfan wrote:victor, you refusal to accept there are better fights for wlad at the moment do lead me to wonder if you have ever seen fres fight? this guy is used as a punch bag in sparring by haye, never won a meaningful fight really, and is 39 years old. he should be fighting price or fury or somebody about that level.

why do they need to be ranked 5th to be considered a challanger? as the other 3 fighters ranked 5th are haye, boystov and banks then i would suggest boystov, but even challengers like charr would be a better "keep warm" fight for wlad, who shouldn't even be having those type of fights if you think he is that much better even the best challangers out there.

I have stated in previous posts why a fight against other named opponents wont work. If you are naming Charr as an alternative you are scraping the barrel.

I'm not saying Fres is the best fighter out there but due to boxing politics and other cicumstances he is probably the highest ranked opponent Wlad could face in a warm up before facing the best HW challenger in Povetkin later this year.

im saying a dominant champion like wlad shouldn't be taking any "easy" fights of this sort at all really, but if he is going to at least give the shot to a contender who will give it ago and beleives he has a chance. if politics is getting in the way for the champion securing better fights then he needs to do what he can to change it, look at froch, forced to go on the road when he was champion but look at the respect he has earned from it.

Wlad would have to allow people to punch him without throwing anything back eddy

I think some of you are misrepresenting victor here. He's hardly championing Fres as a great fight. He's merely pointing out that, when you actually go down the list of possible opponents, there really isn't that many options. I know the immediate reaction is to cry 'this fight is a joke, there must be someone else'. Well the first part is true - it is a joke, but the second part - is there someone else? Remember this has to be an opponent in reality, not in a hypothetical sense as who could fight Wlad. Who do we have?

Povetkin
Pulev
Haye
Adamek
Arreola
Helenius
Boytsov
Chagaev
Arreola
Fury
Price
Banks
Wilder
Solis
Cunningham
Wach
Dimetrenko
Charr

As an opponent every one of these guys is better than Fres to varying degrees. I don't care if Arreola and Adamek were beaten by Vitali - they are still light years better than Fres. But, how many of them really want it - to the point where they will enter negotiations and sign on the line? Not many by the looks of it.

I hope to god Wlad makes more effort to negotiate with one of the better guys on this list rather than Fres, but you can see why the barrel is being scraped.

I don't buy into this idea at that Oquendo is the best available opponent, takes too big a leap of fate to believe that.

Imperial Ghosty wrote:I don't buy into this idea at that Oquendo is the best available opponent, takes too big a leap of fate to believe that.

Yes you are right Wlad is ducking Fury, price, Adamek and Arreola because there is no other legitimate reason why he is not fighting them. Especially how all those named fighters have been crying out that they want to fight wlad especially Fury who seems to be the most vocal one in telling everyone that he wants to fight wlad.

It's not about ducking anyone but I fail to accept that Oquendo is the best available fight out there, that would require me to acknowledge that 20 heavyweights are tied up elsewhere which I don't believe for a second.

victorgarco wrote:

Imperial Ghosty wrote:I don't buy into this idea at that Oquendo is the best available opponent, takes too big a leap of fate to believe that.

Yes you are right Wlad is ducking Fury, price, Adamek and Arreola because there is no other legitimate reason why he is not fighting them. Especially how all those named fighters have been crying out that they want to fight wlad especially Fury who seems to be the most vocal one in telling everyone that he wants to fight wlad.

I'm pretty sure that both Fury & Price have recently ruled themselves out, also both have other opponents lined up. Adamek & Arreola I couldn't comment on.

sohotnot wrote:

victorgarco wrote:

Imperial Ghosty wrote:I don't buy into this idea at that Oquendo is the best available opponent, takes too big a leap of fate to believe that.

Yes you are right Wlad is ducking Fury, price, Adamek and Arreola because there is no other legitimate reason why he is not fighting them. Especially how all those named fighters have been crying out that they want to fight wlad especially Fury who seems to be the most vocal one in telling everyone that he wants to fight wlad.

I'm pretty sure that both Fury & Price have recently ruled themselves out, also both have other opponents lined up. Adamek & Arreola I couldn't comment on.

Sorry I was being sarcastic.

Imperial Ghosty wrote:It's not about ducking anyone but I fail to accept that Oquendo is the best available fight out there, that would require me to acknowledge that 20 heavyweights are tied up elsewhere which I don't believe for a second.

You named some people and I replied why they wouldn'y be an option. All you seem to do is say that he should fight someone else but you can't actually say who. You just seem to pluck a random name out of the air and say he should fight this person or that person.

You replied why a couple wouldn't be an option and given some half arsed jibberish why Oquendo is a better fight than guys rated far higher than himself. If you wish to think he's the best available out there then that's your prerogative but it would take a huge amount of naivety and faith on my part to do likewise.

Imperial Ghosty wrote:You replied why a couple wouldn't be an option and given some half arsed jibberish why Oquendo is a better fight than guys rated far higher than himself. If you wish to think he's the best available out there then that's your prerogative but it would take a huge amount of naivety and faith on my part to do likewise.

Cos all you have done is pluck a name out of the air and say wlad should fight this guy. You named Mitchell a guy who Wlad's trainer knocked out. You named banks who is Wlad's trainer. You named arreola who is going to be a mandatory for the wbc which vitali will vacate soon. you named Adamek who looks to be avoiding the Klits.

Out of ll the names you mentioned have any come out and said they want to fight wlad? So far wlad has announced he will have a fight in 2 months and I have not heard anyone saying they want to be his opponent.

You can believe what you want Victor, it's not going to make me believe this is the best fight available.

So what Mitchell has been knocked out by Banks would still be a better option than Oquendo as would Arreola, a large part of it comes down to Wlad making the better fights happen not waiting around doing nothing fighting no marks.

Imperial Ghosty wrote:You can believe what you want Victor, it's not going to make me believe this is the best fight available.

So what Mitchell has been knocked out by Banks would still be a better option than Oquendo as would Arreola, a large part of it comes down to Wlad making the better fights happen not waiting around doing nothing fighting no marks.

This is a prime example of you just plucking names out of the air. Why would arreola fight wlad when he is in the wbc final eliminator for vitalis belt and will most likely fight for the vacant belt as vitali will retire.

Do you really think he will want to fight Wlad and get a battering and put his career back 5/6 fights or do you think he would rather win the wbc eliminator and fight a much less able opponent and become world champ (presuming vitali retires after 1 more fight which looks likely).

Imperial Ghosty wrote:I don't buy into this idea at that Oquendo is the best available opponent, takes too big a leap of fate to believe that.

You mean leap of 'faith'....

Oquendo definitely isn't the best opponent. But its not as if Wlad is making it look he is so that he can duck other fighters. Wlad would fight everyone on that list, but no one wants to fight him.

In fairness, it seemed like Wlad had targeted Solis for an April fight but the fight fell through. Solis was a credible opponent. Now he has been left rather short of options. Although there probably are about 20 heavyweights at least better and more desrving than Oquendo when you go through the list there actually isnt many at all that would either take the fight at this time, have a free schedule or have not already been beaten by Wlad. It doesnt make Oquenda a good fight, its a very poor one. But it highlights a lack of options.

You have a group a guys that are hovering about the WBC title that want to wait it out for Vitali to retire or become his mandatory and have a crack at the more ageing Klitschko. And you have a group of guys that are in no rush to fight Wlad.

Of the list of top 20 or so heavyweights the two that stand out as being most willing to fight Wlad would be Pulev and Adamek. They both recently came through eliminators there for Wlads IBF and will most likely face off to see who is Wlads next mandatory. Wlad could offer them fight now, but I suspect there is a strong chance that both guys would rather go into the fight with Wlad as a mandatory whereby they would be guaranteed more favourable terms.

The best option would be just to try and reschedule Povetkin for sooner rather than later.

Why are people so willing to offer up excuses for Wlad when they wouldn't do the same for other fighters.

I think he's doing the right thing by taking an easy voluntary and getting paid a shed load at the same time.

The fight's just tiding him over till something bigger comes along. It'll be a sell out crowd and only one of three fights he'll have in 2013. Easy money.

eddyfightfan wrote:victor, you refusal to accept there are better fights for wlad at the moment do lead me to wonder if you have ever seen fres fight? this guy is used as a punch bag in sparring by haye, never won a meaningful fight really, and is 39 years old. he should be fighting price or fury or somebody about that level.

why do they need to be ranked 5th to be considered a challanger? as the other 3 fighters ranked 5th are haye, boystov and banks then i would suggest boystov, but even challengers like charr would be a better "keep warm" fight for wlad, who shouldn't even be having those type of fights if you think he is that much better even the best challangers out there.

Excluding those who Wlad has beaten already. Heres the kind of availability open to him if he wants to fight in April:

Price - fight scheduled 23 Feb
Fury - fight scheduled v Cunningham TBA
Cunningham - see above
Boytsov - fight scheduled 18th Feb
Stiverne - fight scheduled 9th March
Arreola - fight scheduled 9th March
Dmitrenko - fight scheduled 9th March

So those guys arent available, and even if they were I doubt they would fight Wlad.

Then you have available:

Banks - Wlads trainer
Helenius - possible, but still rebuilding after a bad injury. I doubt he would want to jump in with Wlad at this time.
Pulev - possible, but is one fight away from mandatory
Adamek - possible, same situation as Pulev
Wilder - possible, but has yet to face anyone of note so seems unlikely to want it
Solis - offered a fight, couldnt agree terms

The rest of the mix probably arent signifiacantly of any more value than Oquenda. So while its a poor fight, its not like there a great number of much better ones out there that one can say for sure would be willing to fight.

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Why are people so willing to offer up excuses for Wlad when they wouldn't do the same for other fighters.

Because, in this case, the excuses Wlad has for taking a crap fight seem pretty valid. No one is happy about this matchup, and Wlad will rightfully be slated if he takes the fight. He should make extra effort to find someone else to fight. But, in the absence of any many obvious alternatives, it gets tough to be too annoyed.

rumours on twitter that it could in fact be Francesco Pianeta. Not great but marginally better.

spencerclarke wrote:rumours on twitter that it could in fact be Francesco Pianeta. Not great but marginally better.

Decent fighter. He is 6ft 5 in his 20's and is unbeaten in 29 fights which include victories over Skelton and McCall and a draw with Sosonowski. Would also be a big fight in Germany because both fighters are German.

Wlad isn't German.

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Wlad isn't German.

Technically Pientina is not German either as he was born in Italy to Italian parents. But both reside, train and fight out of Germany.

In which case your whole statement was factually incorrect as neither are German as you stated, would help to wikipedia Pianeta before you start talking about him. Going by his record he would be a significantly better opponent than Oquendo although still not a great choice.

It kinda shows how bad Oquenda is when we're looking at a guy who's best win is against Skelton, and thinking 'hey, that's an improvement'.

Imperial Ghosty wrote:In which case your whole statement was factually incorrect as neither are German as you stated, would help to wikipedia Pianeta before you start talking about him. Going by his record he would be a significantly better opponent than Oquendo although still not a great choice.

Pianeta is german tho as he has a German passport

Seems like you are trying to debate anything because you got embarrassed earlier in the thread by not thinking about fighters before mentioning them as possible opponents.

djlovesyou wrote:It kinda shows how bad Oquenda is when we're looking at a guy who's best win is against Skelton, and thinking 'hey, that's an improvement'.

His record is probably the same as Price's if you compare it. I think it is more the fact that he is in his 20's he is 6ft 5 and is unbeaten in 29 fights.

Still I agree it is not a great fight and I would much rather seem him fight Povetkin sooner rather than later. But I think we should wait and see who his actual opponent is before attacking him because so far oquendo and Pianeta are just rumours. I think the only confirmed info from Klitschko is that talks against a credible opponent in Solis fell through.

You bore me Victor and frankly you have absolutely nothing useful to say.

Imperial Ghosty wrote:You bore me Victor and frankly you have absolutely nothing useful to say.

Then stop replying to every one of my posts. It's like you follow me on this site.

spencerclarke wrote:rumours on twitter that it could in fact be Francesco Pianeta. Not great but marginally better.

I had actually never heard of this guy!