Mike Brown's Left Foot

Anybody else thinking that Mike Brown would be better suited to playing on the right wing instead of his current no. 11 position?
One of Brown's biggest strengths, when playing fullback, is his big left boot and making long touch-finders from the back. Having watched the Eng-Sco game, and Brown's occasional indecisiveness and markedly poor hoof down Stuart Hogg's throat, I am wondering if he is concerned about slicing his clearances straight into touch.
It is very difficult kicking from close to the LH touchline off your left peg, and Brown, normally a fullback, wouldn't be too accustomed to the lack of space to work with.
I remember Andy Goode. in his Tigers days, always fluffing his kicks (right-footed) to the RH touchline and always got better distance/contact when kicking to the left.

I'm sure people will point to Hernandez's ridiculous banana-kick against NZ as an example of a clearance when close to the touchline and off the same foot, but no-one bar maybe Carlos Spencer has that sort of skill!

So maybe if the Brown-on-the-wing experiment were to be continued, he would be better on the right, where he could step in and use the better angle to clear

(Having said all that, Ashton is a better RW and Brown should be at fullback and I've always liked Varndell on the left)

Thoughts?

I agree. I believe he would have got the ball away if he had been on the other side of the pitch when he got pinged for hanging on to it.

I'd like to see him at FB too, but thats a different story...

We know that Stuart Lancaster likes a motivational speech, so to paraphrase Hugh Grant:


We may be a small country, but we're a great one, too. The country of Shakespeare, Churchill, the Beatles, Sean Connery Daniel Craig, Harry Potter. Mike Brown's left foot. Mike Brown's right foot, come to that. And a friend who bullies us is no longer a friend. And since bullies only respond to strength, from now onward I will be prepared to be much stronger. And Declan should be prepared for that.

LT, I never took you for a chic-flick devotee. Do you come out with quotes like that in the Crumbie?!


Mike Brown has an excellent left foot except when clearing the 22 to the Scots and when deployed as a winger. Everything is going quite well for SL at the moment and long may it continue, but please let him stop this 2 full back strategy, it's incredibly negative especially when you consider the plethora of talented wings we have at present.

Oh and welcome to 606v2 chargedowntotheface

I prefer Brown to Foden and Goode as a FB.

BUT it depends on the centres who plays FB.

If its
10 Farrell
12 Twelvetrees
13 Barritt
Then 15 should be Brown

If Its
10 Farrell
12 Barritt
13 Tuilagi
Then Goode starts as he can play receiver.

If its
10 Farrel
12 Twelvtrees
13 Tuilagi
Then id play Brown at 15.

I'd much rather see Brown at W and Goode at FB, as an Irish fan. Brown was caught out positionally for both the Scottish tries and you can imagine if Hoggy, who's not the biggest (6'0" and 90kgs) bounce over him... Kearney, Zebo and Gilroy would love to face him as a last man!

I honestly don't think Manu will start. He's not played in 4 weeks and has had a boot on for 3 of those... Imagine he'll be on the bench and the only change will be Haskell for Morgan.

HongKongCherry wrote:LT, I never took you for a chic-flick devotee. Do you come out with quotes like that in the Crumbie?!

I am banned from the Crumbie
They did not like my Ronan Keating impressions. Now the A&L/Goldsmiths crowd has to put up with me :


"The smile on your face, lets me know that you need me"


PS yes, am in a silly mood.

LondonTiger wrote:

HongKongCherry wrote:LT, I never took you for a chic-flick devotee. Do you come out with quotes like that in the Crumbie?!

I am banned from the Crumbie
They did not like my Ronan Keating impressions. Now the A&L/Goldsmiths crowd has to put up with me :


"The smile on your face, lets me know that you need me"


PS yes, am in a silly mood.

With that type of singing you sound like you could be a Sarries supporter!

Is mike brown doing his own version of the the brilliant film "my left foot" starring daniel day lewis?

HongKongCherry wrote:LT, I never took you for a chic-flick devotee. Do you come out with quotes like that in the Crumbie?!


Mike Brown has an excellent left foot except when clearing the 22 to the Scots and when deployed as a winger. Everything is going quite well for SL at the moment and long may it continue, but please let him stop this 2 full back strategy, it's incredibly negative especially when you consider the plethora of talented wings we have at present.

Oh and welcome to 606v2 chargedowntotheface

Would it be childish to say takes one to know one?

We should know the advice from thems in the know: 'Never go full-special'

Apparently 'ret' and 'ard' shouldn't be said in such a respectable community as this

yappysnap wrote:

HongKongCherry wrote:LT, I never took you for a chic-flick devotee. Do you come out with quotes like that in the Crumbie?!


Mike Brown has an excellent left foot except when clearing the 22 to the Scots and when deployed as a winger. Everything is going quite well for SL at the moment and long may it continue, but please let him stop this 2 full back strategy, it's incredibly negative especially when you consider the plethora of talented wings we have at present.

Oh and welcome to 606v2 chargedowntotheface

Would it be childish to say takes one to know one?

The quesion is, how did you know the quote came from a chick-flick?!

Bathman_in_London wrote:

yappysnap wrote:

HongKongCherry wrote:LT, I never took you for a chic-flick devotee. Do you come out with quotes like that in the Crumbie?!


Mike Brown has an excellent left foot except when clearing the 22 to the Scots and when deployed as a winger. Everything is going quite well for SL at the moment and long may it continue, but please let him stop this 2 full back strategy, it's incredibly negative especially when you consider the plethora of talented wings we have at present.

Oh and welcome to 606v2 chargedowntotheface

Would it be childish to say takes one to know one?

The quesion is, how did you know the quote came from a chick-flick?!

Yappy & Bathman I, erm, found it on, erm, Google... honestly

I guess you just went home, put the dvd on and had a little cry while consoling yourself with some chocolates after last saturdays game...

UlstermaninGlasgow wrote:I'd much rather see Brown at W and Goode at FB, as an Irish fan. Brown was caught out positionally for both the Scottish tries and you can imagine if Hoggy, who's not the biggest (6'0" and 90kgs) bounce over him... Kearney, Zebo and Gilroy would love to face him as a last man!

I honestly don't think Manu will start. He's not played in 4 weeks and has had a boot on for 3 of those... Imagine he'll be on the bench and the only change will be Haskell for Morgan.

Hogg ran over Goode not Brown and Brown was in position for te first try at least (can't remember the second try's specifics except it was a breakaway and the Scots kicked the ball downfield) but his rubbish kick meant there were no backs to defend inside him so he had to cover the outside men and Dan Cole, being a prop, couldn't get across quickly enough so Hogg ran between Brown and Cole and then through Goode as if he were Ronan O'Gara

ChequeredJersey wrote:

UlstermaninGlasgow wrote:I'd much rather see Brown at W and Goode at FB, as an Irish fan. Brown was caught out positionally for both the Scottish tries and you can imagine if Hoggy, who's not the biggest (6'0" and 90kgs) bounce over him... Kearney, Zebo and Gilroy would love to face him as a last man!

I honestly don't think Manu will start. He's not played in 4 weeks and has had a boot on for 3 of those... Imagine he'll be on the bench and the only change will be Haskell for Morgan.

Hogg ran over Goode not Brown and Brown was in position for te first try at least (can't remember the second try's specifics except it was a breakaway and the Scots kicked the ball downfield) but his rubbish kick meant there were no backs to defend inside him so he had to cover the outside men and Dan Cole, being a prop, couldn't get across quickly enough so Hogg ran between Brown and Cole and then through Goode as if he were Ronan O'Gara

Brown has to take a lot of blame for the 1st try. His brainless kick then being turned inside out by the Scottish attackers led to the try. Mostly down to kicking the ball straight down the Scottish attackers' throat. Goode was poor too but it was Brown who put England in that perilous position.

I agree but it wasn't his tackling that was the problem- it was either his decision making or kicking. On repeat viewing there wasn't much he could do to avoid being turned inside out- Hogg had two men outside him and if he committed to the tackle with Cole on his way attempting to cover, Hogg would have passed and it still would have been a try probably. However he wouldn't have had that problem if he hadn't made such an awful kick. The Quins fans think he was aiming for touch but missed it. Not sure if that's better or worse than deliberately kicking straight to the opposition FB though!

As a surgeon, I can say without doubt Mike Brown's left foot belongs attached to his left ankle. If it falls off, i can fix it (for a small fee, of course).

As an England Rugby supporter, I believe Mike Brown's left foot should be playing for Harlequins this weekend. For all his very apparent attacking talent, he also makes bad decisions as matches progress. I don't like him in an England jumper, even the one's which can be purchased in the overpriced shops at Twickenham. The full Mike Brown package is simply too unreliable for me.

The point I'm making is Irish fans who think Zebo might out jink, skin or out wit Brown at wing may have a point. Thinking could run through Brown is likely to result in a big straight on hit and a turnover

True Chequeredjersey. You might be able to run around Brown but it's difficult to run him over.

He's proved though that's he is not a left winger though.

I personally would either drop him completely or start him at 15.

I am worried that a back three consisting of Goode,Brown and Ashton is not defensively strong enough.

Bathman_in_London wrote:I guess you just went home, put the dvd on and had a little cry while consoling yourself with some chocolates after last saturdays game...

You're not far off the truth

I'm unsure of Brown on the Int stage tbh.

At club level, he's untouchable but just looks shaky for England.

Can we watch him in his actual position before we make that judgment I know technically he got to play a bit there after substitutions but it's hardly the same thing

I'm unsure CJ, the times he has slotted in there he's not been impressive (SA & late v Scotland).

As I said he's great for Quins but not sure he has the nous at Int level.

I thought he was OK in SA until he broke his thumb with an admittedly Poopie tackle on JDV

ChequeredJersey wrote:Can we watch him in his actual position before we make that judgment I know technically he got to play a bit there after substitutions but it's hardly the same thing

Completely agree. He NEEDS a run out at 15. When he's got ball in hand, I think he's probably one of our most dangerous runners- he deceptively quick now, and almost impossible to knock down. He simply has to be tried in his natural 15 position. What he's achieving playing out of position is a testament to his quality. Give him a run out at full back!

I genuinely think he is one of the most electric players in the Premiership, possibly even the NH.

Bring Foden in onto the wing spot, and move Brown to 15, shunting Goode out of the 23 until he's back to full fitness or improves his decision making.

Can't we bring Foden on the bench (he makes a much better winger than Brown but he's still an out and out FB too) and actually play a winger?

That would be even better, but who?

Personally, I don't think Strettle is offering anything at the moment. Like I've said, I really like him, but he looked slow and disinterested when he came on against Scotland.

Who though?

Nobody is screaming out really.

Wade - Still question marks, has been ok for Saxons
Strettle - just not good enough
Biggs - defensively weak
Sharples - as Biggs
May - needs game time, not great for Saxons

Monye?

Monye can be used well but if the gameplan doesn't suit him he is limited

Forgot about Monye, possibly but he's looked a bit off pace this season.

Has he lost a bit of gas CJ?

Yes, he's not the same speed as he was when he played for the Lions back in 2009, now he tends top use a mixture of his relative strength and decent speed. Very good defensive wing, and he can kick at wing but he's not a pace merchant these days

I'd love to see May involved

Think he could be the future to be honest Sgt Pooly.

I'd love to see him involved once he's fully fit again. He still seems a little off the pace- which is to be expected.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Forgot about Monye, possibly but he's looked a bit off pace this season.

Has he lost a bit of gas CJ?

Early in the season he looked like he was getting back to his 2009 form. He's bulked up a bit and last season was falling over quite a lot - seemed to have that sorted. Hasn't been quite so visible since the weather turned cold, but that might be me just blocking out his haircut, which is particularly daft, even alongside Danny Care and Joe Marler (who gets points back for his beard. That's a proper forward's beard, whatever SCW says).

England seem to have lots of wings who are quick going forward, but few who are good defensively. I think that's one reason why SL is keen on having 2 fullbacks - but that means a learning curve period while they adapt to the position.

Why are we so worried about playing a defensively weak winger when the alternative is a defensively weak full back out of position?

I agree. I say we test Zebo's defence. They can't expose any wingers' defensive frailties if they are too busy giving Sexton the ball for another restart

I'm another that would prefer Brown at FB than on the wing with Twelvetrees looking like he's reduced the need for the best aspects of what Goode brings to the side.

I likewise don't think there is a standout option to take the left wing spot though. Strettle does little for me, Foden & Joseph don't look in top form, and May & Wade the players who I ultimately see being in the EPS for wing spots haven't shown enough in their recent outings for the Saxons to suggest they're quite ready to make the step up (I'd be more inclined to promote Daly from the Saxons on recent form).

Very true assumptions about Brown on the left wing, the bottom line for me though is that as the best 15 in England he should be playing FB.

If Barritt and Tuilagi start in the centres there's an argument for Goode at FB as an extra first receiver but as I'd like to see 36 stay at inside centre that is irrelevant to my thought process.

For Sunday I'd like to see 9.Youngs 10.Farrell 11.Foden (pace) 12.Twelvetrees 13.Barritt 14.Ashton 15.Brown with Tuilagi on the bench.

In the future I'd like to see 9.Youngs 10.Farrell 11.May 12.Twelvetrees 13.Tuilagi 14.Ashton/Wade 15.Brown - obviously predictions like that are largely irrelevant due to form/fitness of players in the future.

timhen wrote:I'm another that would prefer Brown at FB than on the wing with Twelvetrees looking like he's reduced the need for the best aspects of what Goode brings to the side.

I likewise don't think there is a standout option to take the left wing spot though. Strettle does little for me, Foden & Joseph don't look in top form, and May & Wade the players who I ultimately see being in the EPS for wing spots haven't shown enough in their recent outings for the Saxons to suggest they're quite ready to make the step up (I'd be more inclined to promote Daly from the Saxons on recent form).

I'd definitely be interested in seeing him on the bench in the not too distant future. There are some similarities with Joseph - who hasn't been at his best of late. He can play centre or across the back 3, has plenty of pace, great feet, and is a creative player that picks nice lines and knows how to bring the players around him into play. Those more creative and vision aspects, similar to what JSD brings to the wide position, may well be a nice alternative to what the promising Wade or May offer on the wing given the stylistic strengths of Tuilagi at 13 and Ashton on the other wing. On top of his playing abilities he also seems to have very good temperament and is able to rise to the occasion, take the last minute pressure penalty from inside his own half as a 19yo to clinch a game towards the end of last season that effectively kept Wasps in the Premiership as an example.

Another strong game today from Brown on the wing but I still feel he's our best full-back. He's just so strong under the high ball. That said I thought Goode was very good as well today in pretty torrid conditions for a FB to deal with so I'd like to see both keep their places for France.

The main problem with the backs at the moment is purely the lack of pace IMO. The centres are looking better now 36 has been included and Barritt is showing up a bit more in attack - he's still very limited but is getting through more work now.

Due to that lack of pace I'd still like to see Foden get another shot on the wing at some point but with guys performing well it's hard to say when. Out of the youngsters like Wade, Daly and May the one I'd most like to see in the squad is Johnny May. Given the way Lancaster wants to pick two FB in the back three for solidity I think May could be a great fit and would add serious pace to the back 3.

May's turn of pace and elusive running was awesome against Saints yesterday!

Yea I think May will get in there before Wade now unless something crazy happens.

Over the summer I'd still love to see Wade and Varndell get played.

Brown's handling of a wet and greasy ball was quite something compared to the guys in green - Goode too (that one high ball where everyone messed up excepted)

yappysnap wrote:Yea I think May will get in there before Wade now unless something crazy happens.

Over the summer I'd still love to see Wade and Varndell get played.

Something crazy like Varndell top try scorer with 11
Wade second top try scorer with 7

Great player that May is those 2 tries arebI believe the first he has scored in the league this season.

What do they have to do to get picked