Rumours on the Dragons terrace...

Now I've heard this rumour from 2 different sources so I wondered if any other Dragons fans have heard anything. The multi millionaire Mr Matthews who owns the Celtic Manor is expressing interest in the Dragons. Apparently he was interested if they could turn a profit this year that he would be willing to invest. I'm not sure where the investment would be directed or how much but I can't help wonder that if some of this maybe true. It would explain why the Dragons didn't recruit anyone on a high wage this season and concentrated their efforts on setting up a long term business plan. Also the debt of the new stand was of highest priority. Any one else heard about this?

...Again I will underline the fact that this is only a rumour.

It would be a complete reversal of his promise never to invest in anything related to Newport again after the problem he had with the council over a planning dispute about the 2012 course, he seemed quite adamant at the time that he was through with investing in the area.

It's feasible given that his son clearly has an insight into how we are performing off the field. Surprised I've not heard more about it though, if true. That kind of rumour would get people salivating.

You don't really "invest" in rugby, you have a hobby that burns cash.

Any help for the Dragons to help bridge the gap between them and the other regions would be fantastic though.

CEO Chris Brown advised supporters that Dragons were expected to show a small profit at end of year?

Hmmm interesting. Just seems too good to be true.
From what I gather we've increased our wage budget upto 3mil for next season (0.5mil under the cap).
If Mathews were to invest first thing is wack down contracts for Toby, Coombs and all our youngsters. Then sign two props and two locks.

& persuade Danny to stay!!!

Haha yes forgot about Danny!

Off topic but we have some real quality coming through at the Dragons getting regular game time. I can't help but think if I Jones, Dixon, Amos or J Evans were playing for another region they'd be getting two page spreads in the WM.

First I've heard of it. But if Matthews does invest, I hope we don't see too much money spent on foreign players who aren't worth it, who will only block the progress of the young players we have coming through. Having the money is one thing, spending it wisely is another.

youngguns6 wrote:Haha yes forgot about Danny!

Off topic but we have some real quality coming through at the Dragons getting regular game time. I can't help but think if I Jones, Dixon, Amos or J Evans were playing for another region they'd be getting two page spreads in the WM.

"He may be young but <insert name> is already setting the regional stage alight"

back on topic, it would be good news for the Dragons if they could get a big name backer to come in, and hopefully by the 50% off the WRU. Fingers crossed it is not just a rumour.

I've heard this rumour doing the rounds for ages, he was almost nailed on a few seasons ago to invest with a lot of others but with him at the head of the consortium, but apparently the WRU would not relinquish their half of the region and they kept putting up red tape, in the end he and his consortium just thought bollix to it and pushed on with the ryder cup instead.

What's the best way for investment money to be spent?

- Buying foreign players?
- Securing current players?
- Making it cheaper for fans to get to see Dragons play?
- Investing in training equipment/stadium?
- Bringing in new coaches?

LordDowlais wrote:I've heard this rumour doing the rounds for ages, he was almost nailed on a few seasons ago to invest with a lot of others but with him at the head of the consortium, but apparently the WRU would not relinquish their half of the region and they kept putting up red tape, in the end he and his consortium just thought bollix to it and pushed on with the ryder cup instead.

If that's true, and it wouldn't surprise me if it was, then what the Frak are they playing at? Do they want to keep one of the four regions hamstrung? Are they worried that with proper investment we might actually give the other three a run for their money?

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:I've heard this rumour doing the rounds for ages, he was almost nailed on a few seasons ago to invest with a lot of others but with him at the head of the consortium, but apparently the WRU would not relinquish their half of the region and they kept putting up red tape, in the end he and his consortium just thought bollix to it and pushed on with the ryder cup instead.

If that's true, and it wouldn't surprise me if it was, then what the Frak are they playing at? Do they want to keep one of the four regions hamstrung? Are they worried that with proper investment we might actually give the other three a run for their money?

Unfortunately Luckless, what it looks like is, they are willing to let the Dragons go until the North Wales region is ready then they will do a Warriors to you, if they allowed the Dragons to become a "force" then their hand would be forced on one of the darling regions, Scarlets or Blues to be looked at, and we cannot have that now can we.

What's the best way for investment money to be spent?

- Buying foreign players?
- Securing current players?
- Making it cheaper for fans to get to see Dragons play?
- Investing in training equipment/stadium?
- Bringing in new coaches?

Stag - from a Dragons point of view I would say all of the above bar being cheap to watch. The one thing the Dragons have always done is be aware of how much they can spend. I think an influx of money would be used wisely.

I don't think the WRU are looking at pinning the Dragons down until the RGC is ready, as IMO they could have ditched the Dragons, shifted the players up north (along with Rob McCusker, Andy Fenby, George North and a few other gogs) and started RGC up in Erias Parc already. It could be that they would rather have a region in their control to use to bring through coaches etc (you've had a few young 'promising' coaches). It could be they don't want to let go incase the new owners ditch you after a season or two etc.

Dowlais - you just know that we're going to end up with West Wales Warriors in time

ScarletSpiderman wrote:I don't think the WRU are looking at pinning the Dragons down until the RGC is ready, as IMO they could have ditched the Dragons, shifted the players up north (along with Rob McCusker, Andy Fenby, George North and a few other gogs) and started RGC up in Erias Parc already. It could be that they would rather have a region in their control to use to bring through coaches etc (you've had a few young 'promising' coaches). It could be they don't want to let go incase the new owners ditch you after a season or two etc.

RGC is nowhere near ready, they aren't even Premership ready, Rupert Moon was asked after the U20 game against Ireland and he said there was a five year plan, and for the moment they are just looking at getting into the Premership. It's all well and good shipping players up there, but they want to build a fanbase and a regional setup with all the clubs, otherwise the North wales region will be full of South Wales players because the clubs are not ready, trust me, North Wales will have a region, but it will come at a cost, and the cost will be one of the regions in the south, I know who I would be betting on.

red_stag wrote:Dowlais - you just know that we're going to end up with West Wales Warriors in time

Nah, the toys being thrown out by the sospans will be immense, like what happened at the start of regionalism, but I do not want to start that argument off. Like I said earlier the North will get their region, but it will come at a cost for one of the regions already in place, and as the Cardiff Blues and the Scarlets are the darlings of Welsh rugby it will not be them, the Ospreys are the more successful of the four so that just leaves one left.

Maybe its just an overly simplistic way of looking at it but surely things would have been fine if it went:

- North
- West
- East
- Valleys

Or is that just a bit too simplistic?

red_stag wrote:Maybe its just an overly simplistic way of looking at it but surely things would have been fine if it went:

- North
- West
- East
- Valleys

Or is that just a bit too simplistic?

That was the way, but certain fans started throwing their toy's out of the pram and the clubs threatend an already bankrupt WRU with court cases that WRU could not afford, so certain clubs had their own way.

2ndtimeround wrote:It would be a complete reversal of his promise never to invest in anything related to Newport again after the problem he had with the council over a planning dispute about the 2012 course, he seemed quite adamant at the time that he was through with investing in the area.

The promise he has already reversed by investing in the Alacrity Foundation via Wesley Clover? He was threatening this and that if he didn't get his way, which he did in the end.

Would love to see him get involved - he's got more money he could be potentially putting into the game than anyone else in Wales North or South but after his well-publicised misdealings with the WRU in the past could only see it if those clowns relinquish their half.

LordDowlais wrote:

red_stag wrote:Maybe its just an overly simplistic way of looking at it but surely things would have been fine if it went:

- North
- West
- East
- Valleys

Or is that just a bit too simplistic?

That was the way, but certain fans started throwing their toy's out of the pram and the clubs threatend an already bankrupt WRU with court cases that WRU could not afford, so certain clubs had their own way.

Ah say no more thats what happens when certain clubs are feeling BLUE and others get a bit RED in the face!

We won't mention any names

LordDowlais wrote:

red_stag wrote:Maybe its just an overly simplistic way of looking at it but surely things would have been fine if it went:

- North
- West
- East
- Valleys

Or is that just a bit too simplistic?

That was the way, but certain fans started throwing their toy's out of the pram and the clubs threatend an already bankrupt WRU with court cases that WRU could not afford, so certain clubs had their own way.

Dowlais - there is also the arguement about what would be classed as East, or West or Valleys etc, being from the far west I really get down in the dump with these debates as the country carries on for two full counties after the M4 finishes which seems to be ignored by many. Looking at the regions at the moment, there could be real concerns for all four of them. The WRU not wanting to let the Dragons go free, the Red Dragons (or whatever the Bluebirds are called now) looking to get promoted to the footballing prem could take the half-rumped fans off the Blues, the Swans wanting to expand the Liberty (wanting the Ospreys out), and the fact there is very little work in the west and the region is so rural and spread out for the Scarlets. Being perfectly honest IF any regions were to be axed, I could understand it being any one of them. That said I don't think that will happen honestly.


Anyway on topic it would make sense for the WRU to sell him their half, that way they could make further savings, and pay off their debt sooner. And more importantly the more regions that are fighting for the top of the RABO, and pushing for silverware in the RABO, HEC or Amlin the better, it will give 'Team Wales' far more options, and far less excuses.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

red_stag wrote:Maybe its just an overly simplistic way of looking at it but surely things would have been fine if it went:

- North
- West
- East
- Valleys

Or is that just a bit too simplistic?

That was the way, but certain fans started throwing their toy's out of the pram and the clubs threatend an already bankrupt WRU with court cases that WRU could not afford, so certain clubs had their own way.

Dowlais - there is also the arguement about what would be classed as East, or West or Valleys etc, being from the far west I really get down in the dump with these debates as the country carries on for two full counties after the M4 finishes which seems to be ignored by many. Looking at the regions at the moment, there could be real concerns for all four of them. The WRU not wanting to let the Dragons go free, the Red Dragons (or whatever the Bluebirds are called now) looking to get promoted to the footballing prem could take the half-rumped fans off the Blues, the Swans wanting to expand the Liberty (wanting the Ospreys out), and the fact there is very little work in the west and the region is so rural and spread out for the Scarlets. Being perfectly honest IF any regions were to be axed, I could understand it being any one of them. That said I don't think that will happen honestly.


Anyway on topic it would make sense for the WRU to sell him their half, that way they could make further savings, and pay off their debt sooner. And more importantly the more regions that are fighting for the top of the RABO, and pushing for silverware in the RABO, HEC or Amlin the better, it will give 'Team Wales' far more options, and far less excuses.

Scarlet this is not about what is classed as West though, it is the fact that Llanelli rfc threatened the WRU with legal action that they could not afford, not just Llanelli though.

Dowlais - there was far more to it than that, trust me when I say I have a 120 mile round trip every home game to see my local region, and I am far from alone in it. Sadly in order to keep a professional rugby side in west wales the only weapon that was available to us that the WRU would understand was cold hard cash. But lets not drag a thread that is meant to be about the Dragons possibility of a fresh new horizon be dragged bown by a decade old arguement about whose dad did what (after all thats what the clubs are really ain't it).

[quote="ScarletSpiderman"]Dowlais - there was far more to it than that, trust me when I say I have a 120 mile round trip every home game to see my local region, and I am far from alone in it. Sadly in order to keep a professional rugby side in west wales the only weapon that was available to us that the WRU would understand was cold hard cash. But lets not drag a thread that is meant to be about the Dragons possibility of a fresh new horizon be dragged bown by a decade old arguement about whose dad did what (after all thats what the clubs are really ain't it).[/quote]

That I will agree with you on.

red_stag wrote:Maybe its just an overly simplistic way of looking at it but surely things would have been fine if it went:

- North
- West
- East
- Valleys

Or is that just a bit too simplistic?

When you say that stag, do you mean North Wales, West Wales, East Wales, or do you mean south west and south east? Because if you're talking true compass west and east then you'd have to build new stadia. In fact, there's not much in east Wales really, apart from England! Which is why they went with the population/clubs/urban areas of the south. North is a good shout though.

Griff,

I was thinking along lines of:

West Wales - based in Swansea
East Wales - based in Cardiff
North Wales - based in Wrexham
Valleys Wales - based in Methyr Tydfil

Not rigid compass points but something like that always made sense to me.

red_stag wrote:Griff,

I was thinking along lines of:

West Wales - based in Swansea
East Wales - based in Cardiff
North Wales - based in Wrexham
Valleys Wales - based in Methyr Tydfil

Not rigid compass points but something like that always made sense to me.

I like your thinking Stag, I really do.

Sounds good stag. But not truly west and east, so those west and east may still feel they were getting a bum deal. In fact, I never understand Swansea being classed as west. It's pretty much dead centre south (from a compass point of view).

But if we are going for that sort of set up, as you suggest, then I see no point in the valleys one. They'd be covered by east and west. In fact they'd be surrounded like the wagons in a western movie, like a little regional enclave surrounded by the regional vultures of east and west. Why make them a special case? Not arguing with you, just curious! I guess it could be argued that the extra population in the south makes a valleys team viable to a certain extent over other areas of wales. May need to build a stadium there too??? Not sure. Maybe something exists in Merthyr already?

Griff wrote:Sounds good stag. But not truly west and east, so those west and east may still feel they were getting a bum deal. In fact, I never understand Swansea being classed as west. It's pretty much dead centre south (from a compass point of view).

But if we are going for that sort of set up, as you suggest, then I see no point in the valleys one. They'd be covered by east and west. In fact they'd be surrounded like the wagons in a western movie, like a little regional enclave surrounded by the regional vultures of east and west. Why make them a special case? Not arguing with you, just curious! I guess it could be argued that the extra population in the south makes a valleys team viable to a certain extent over other areas of wales. May need to build a stadium there too??? Not sure. Maybe something exists in Merthyr already?

Yes there is Penydarren park, ten thousand capacity if there are enough stewards.

red_stag wrote:Maybe its just an overly simplistic way of looking at it but surely things would have been fine if it went:

- North
- West
- East
- Valleys

Or is that just a bit too simplistic?

Yes. Very much too simplistic.

LordDowlais wrote:

red_stag wrote:Maybe its just an overly simplistic way of looking at it but surely things would have been fine if it went:

- North
- West
- East
- Valleys

Or is that just a bit too simplistic?

That was the way, but certain fans started throwing their toy's out of the pram and the clubs threatend an already bankrupt WRU with court cases that WRU could not afford, so certain clubs had their own way.

What fans would these be LD coz I don't recall any being given a say in anything whatsoever?

So you never moaned about merging with another club then ? You never protested about being stand alone region ?Because I remember a lot of shouting coming out of Cardiff at the time, or did you just embrace regionalism from the off ?

I can't see Matthews getting involved, for one he's had too much hassle with the council, then theres his issues with the WRU so he would never get into bed with them, and finally he isn't the type of guy to put anything into something he could'nt make on.

Matthews involvement would mean buying the WRU's share, then making money, rugby really isn't the sport where money is made, it's more long term loss for the love of the game.

Impossible Standards wrote:Now I've heard this rumour from 2 different sources so I wondered if any other Dragons fans have heard anything. The multi millionaire Mr Matthews who owns the Celtic Manor is expressing interest in the Dragons. Apparently he was interested if they could turn a profit this year that he would be willing to invest. I'm not sure where the investment would be directed or how much but I can't help wonder that if some of this maybe true. It would explain why the Dragons didn't recruit anyone on a high wage this season and concentrated their efforts on setting up a long term business plan. Also the debt of the new stand was of highest priority. Any one else heard about this?

...Again I will underline the fact that this is only a rumour.

Hope so.
A strong NGD is good for all.

thebluesmancometh wrote:I can't see Matthews getting involved, for one he's had too much hassle with the council, then theres his issues with the WRU so he would never get into bed with them, and finally he isn't the type of guy to put anything into something he could'nt make on.

Matthews involvement would mean buying the WRU's share, then making money, rugby really isn't the sport where money is made, it's more long term loss for the love of the game.

I think it was more about the legacy to be honest bluesman, when the Dragons venture failed because of the WRU he put all his effort into the Ryder Cup, and that is now his legacy not the Dragons.

LordDowlais wrote:So you never moaned about merging with another club then ? You never protested about being stand alone region ?Because I remember a lot of shouting coming out of Cardiff at the time, or did you just embrace regionalism from the off ?

Regionalism was utter tosh from the start.
I've never moaned once about merging with another club coz it was never going to happen. We laughed enormously about it at the time though when it was suggested. Cardiff/Ponty? Now that's funny. I mean, can you imagine Leicester merging with Northampton for instance to make up a team? Aint going to happen is it, ever? Two different businesses for a start.
When "regionalism" kicked off, Cardiff accidently ordered the wrong badges for the jersey. They had to have the right one's sewn on top. You couldn't make it up.
Regionalism is a myth and always has been.

Matthews & the Celtic Manor are already involved at the Dragons - Dylan is on the board & is overseeing the potential of the Bisley facility, by all accounts doing a great job.
Mr Matthews could by the 50% share held by the WRU because of his links to Newbridge,not sure he has tried to do this in the past & failed as has been mooted on here.

With Mathews son involved with the Dragons think it's realistic that he'd want to support his son and be involved with the Dragons too.

Hope there's some truth in this rumour - Welsh rugby needs a strong Gwent region.

If there is strength in the rumour, how much could Dragons improve?

Their rivals are Connacht, Edinburgh, Zebre and Treviso.

Given that its expected that Edinburgh should do better with a new coach next year, and should really be a top half of the table team, Connacht are better funded than years gone by and with Lam in improvement is expected again, Treviso are a decent side and will improve, and Zebre should improve.

It really means Dragons will have to improve to stand still.

They are not far off the pace at present, but they would need to improve more than the teams above them to climb up the table next year, and the teams above them seam to be getting better, (or have better prospects at present).

Without investment, it would seam Dragons would be in the bottom 2 again next year, with some improvement the 6-11 spots could become very close.

Kingshu - to be honest I think the Dragons are not far off the Blues at the moment, I believe the only real differnce between the two ofthem at the moment are the two games between them. So with a bit of investment, and one or two decent signings they could be pushing for the 2nd/3rd Welsh region place.

Dragons are close, not much between Connacht Edinburgh annd Dragons, and a win could see a jump up the table.

But as I see it, Connacht and Edinburgh currently have more potential to improve next season than Dragons currently do (unless this investment comes in).

I see Cardiff, Edinburgh, Connacht, Treviso and to an extent Zebre, being better teams next season than this, and therefore Dragons will need to be a better team next year than this, to stay at the same level.

if Dragons improve a bit more than these teams 7-11 positions in the table will be close, and there may not be the same divide we see at present between top 6 and bottom 6 (13 points between 6th and 7th).

Kingshu wrote:Dragons are close, not much between Connacht Edinburgh annd Dragons, and a win could see a jump up the table.

But as I see it, Connacht and Edinburgh currently have more potential to improve next season than Dragons currently do (unless this investment comes in).

Based on what? I'll be honest, I wish you wouldn't comment on Dragons threads, as I find you a little ignorant when you constantly suggest things like Dragons won't improve or will finish below Zebre. Are you privy to each teams signings or budgets? I'm genuinely confused how you seem to be able to assert things about the Dragons as you do.

Maybe I am a bit hard on Dragons, but I'm entitled to have an opinion on things, I don't have to be privy to each teams signings or budgets, to make predictions on how things will fare next year.

Dragons lost
Luke Charteris
Aled Brew
Jason Tovey
and didn't really replace them, ok some players have proved better than expected, and his summer they will lose Dan Lydiate as well.

the rivals I mentioned of Dragons,

Edinburgh, where last years h-cup semi finalists, and hence have the showing of a good team, they shouldn't be in the bottom third of the table, and next year with a new coach most people will expect they won't be.

Connacht and Treviso improved their first XV and squads last summer, can Dragons really say they improved from last year to this?

Of course I can't say how each team will do, Leinster could finish bottom next year, but judging by last summer and this year (all anyone can do).

I actually like the Dragons, and hope this investment does come in, but Edinburgh shouldn't be down in bottom 3rd next year, Connacht with increased funding from IRFU are improving each year, Treviso continue to improve, meaning that Dragons will have to improve by the same amount these teams do, just to stay still, I don't think thats insulting, I think thats realistic.

I think Dragons will improve, but will they improve more than these other teams, to overtake them and sit midtable next year? Could happen if they get investment it would be good to see, and Dragons fans would deserve it.

Dragons plan this year was to make RP a tough place to visit and 4/7 is pretty good so far they wil have been disappointed loing to Cardiff and Ospreys, they do have Scarlets to come and will want a derby win at home, Leinster, Munster and Glasgow also visit, its not all doom and gloom for me about them.

Rev
You can't really dispute Kingshu's perspective as an outsider, he isn't far out at all, and the performances and table would suggest he's pretty spot on.

I disagree Connacht have the potential to grow beyond the Dragons, although Enbra definately have and should be already!

Dragons are in a tough spot, and as it stands they are moving the wrong direction to Connacht who are definately on the up.

Any comparison to the blues is silly, as Thomas has the ability and form to sign players and turn the team around, IMHO a few decisions recently have really hampered them, and the sooner we get over the front row panic and get a decent coaching team in the better.

I would love nothing more than to see Matthews throw some financial clout behind his sons pocket money, sign some real quality WQ and NWQ and become a power in Wales and europe but does anyone see this happening in reality?

He is wrong to keep making predictions of what teams will do before signings are made etc. Dragons are a few handy signings away (in key positions) from an okay side.

Edinburgh have been at this level for the past two seasons (this and last) and I think it's a little silly to make predictions without seeing signings etc. Particularly ones like Dragons won't improve, when they're showing glimpses of potential at the minute and are proving that players that we allegedly haven't replaced are starting to step up (Steff for Tovey, Prydie for Brew, Coombs for Charteris).

thebluesmancometh wrote:
Any comparison to the blues is silly, as Thomas has the ability and form to sign players and turn the team around, IMHO a few decisions recently have really hampered them, and the sooner we get over the front row panic and get a decent coaching team in the better.

I would love nothing more than to see Matthews throw some financial clout behind his sons pocket money, sign some real quality WQ and NWQ and become a power in Wales and europe but does anyone see this happening in reality?

This is the key issue here, anyone who doubts the ability of Brown (recently heralded as one of the wealthiest men involved in pro rugby in the UK) and Matthews (who far from existing on Daddy's pocket money owns a large proportion of the family businesses, almost certainly dwarfing anything Brown has got) to invest in the team is frickin' crackers. They chucked £5m plus into the ground last season after all. They won't invest in the team because it's a fools game whilst the WRU persist in their agenda to turn us into the Northern Hemisphere's version of Argentina, let alone the fact they've had the bird from the WRU over the ownership, Ruddock etc worse than any of the others. The WRU won't let this happen because strong regions don't serve the short term interests of Roger and his pension fund.

[quote="Risca Rev"]He is wrong to keep making predictions of what teams will do before signings are made etc.quote]

Why? It's a forum, should people not make predictions on who will win the Lions series before the squad, never mind first XV is picked, bookmakers are accepting bets on peoples predictions, are these all wrong to do so?

People are making predictions on who will be in the H-cup final and even win it, before the Q-finals are played, its all part of the fun.