Change to the scrum laws in RSA
+7
damage_13
LondonTiger
Bathman_in_London
prop_lyd
formerly known as Sam
Poorfour
AsLongAsBut100ofUs
11 posters
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Change to the scrum laws in RSA
http://springboksupporter.co.za/Mobi/Default.aspx?Type=SARU&aliasPath=/News/SARU/New-scrum-laws-for-schools-and-clubs-in-SA
Thought this was quite an interesting piece. It seems that the last line sums it up:
"The emphasis will revert back to scrumming after the ball is fed in as opposed to ‘hitting’ in on the opponent"
I would also be a fan of:
"The engagement call for these three categories will be “crouch, bind, scrum” and the distance between the packs pre-setting will be reduced to where the heads of the two front rows are aligned ear-to-ear and in the opposite channel."
and,
"Binding post-engagement between the two front rows has to be such that the elbows are not lower than the shoulder line."
These 2 could stop much of the reasons for collapse (and hence potential for injury) by taking away the big "hit" and making it harder to pull the opponent down.
What do others think, and it would be interesting to hear form our resident Boks, Biltong and fa, as to how it's working?
Thought this was quite an interesting piece. It seems that the last line sums it up:
"The emphasis will revert back to scrumming after the ball is fed in as opposed to ‘hitting’ in on the opponent"
I would also be a fan of:
"The engagement call for these three categories will be “crouch, bind, scrum” and the distance between the packs pre-setting will be reduced to where the heads of the two front rows are aligned ear-to-ear and in the opposite channel."
and,
"Binding post-engagement between the two front rows has to be such that the elbows are not lower than the shoulder line."
These 2 could stop much of the reasons for collapse (and hence potential for injury) by taking away the big "hit" and making it harder to pull the opponent down.
What do others think, and it would be interesting to hear form our resident Boks, Biltong and fa, as to how it's working?
AsLongAsBut100ofUs- Posts : 14129
Join date : 2011-03-26
Age : 112
Location : Devon/London
Re: Change to the scrum laws in RSA
Fully in favour of that. Shame there seems to be no intent to consider it for wider use.
Poorfour- Posts : 6428
Join date : 2011-10-01
Re: Change to the scrum laws in RSA
I've heard that similar is being used and has been for more than a season in the amatuer leagues in France.
formerly known as Sam- Posts : 21333
Join date : 2011-07-13
Age : 38
Location : Leicestershire
Re: Change to the scrum laws in RSA
I'm for the first bit as it brings back a lot of emphasis on technique and prop's reverting back to the size they used to be.
The 2nd part...yes it would take out the risk of quite a few collapsed scrums but also it would remove a few tricks of the front row trade.
I feel that the 2nd one would be very difficult for the referees to officiate with props at a different height so the smaller prop would be at an advantage....which I'm not complaining about!!
The 2nd part...yes it would take out the risk of quite a few collapsed scrums but also it would remove a few tricks of the front row trade.
I feel that the 2nd one would be very difficult for the referees to officiate with props at a different height so the smaller prop would be at an advantage....which I'm not complaining about!!
prop_lyd- Posts : 10387
Join date : 2011-01-28
Age : 36
Location : Rogerstone, Wales
Re: Change to the scrum laws in RSA
Interesting. Although a shame that its designed to build up to the 'hit' through the leagues, rather than being tested with a view to implament more widely.
It should mean a lot less re-setting (although in my experience this doesnt happen too much at amateur level) and make scrummaging technique more important again.
It should mean a lot less re-setting (although in my experience this doesnt happen too much at amateur level) and make scrummaging technique more important again.
Bathman_in_London- Posts : 2266
Join date : 2011-06-03
Re: Change to the scrum laws in RSA
If we simply enforce the current laws - no pushing before the ball comes in (removes the hit which causes so many collapses) and putting the ball in straight and bob's your uncle.
LondonTiger- Moderator
- Posts : 23485
Join date : 2011-02-10
Re: Change to the scrum laws in RSA
it means sweet FA if they don't put the ball in straight, because all you have there is three props pushing with no chance to compete for the ball and less chance to get penalties from forcing incorrect pushing or binding.
damage_13- Posts : 682
Join date : 2011-09-08
Location : Southampton, England
Re: Change to the scrum laws in RSA
damage_13 wrote:it means sweet FA if they don't put the ball in straight, because all you have there is three props pushing with no chance to compete for the ball and less chance to get penalties from forcing incorrect pushing or binding.
I think one of the benefits is that if you eliminate pushing before the ball goes in and minimise the hit, making it easier for props to get a bind, refs will have less to focus on at engagement and will be better able to police the straight put in. The over-emphasis on the hit we have today distorts the scrum, and anything that reverses that can only be a good thing.
Poorfour- Posts : 6428
Join date : 2011-10-01
Re: Change to the scrum laws in RSA
methinks this sounds like a trial of the current laws! Along with a few extra details thown in. Good idea. Look forward to see the results.LondonTiger wrote:If we simply enforce the current laws - no pushing before the ball comes in (removes the hit which causes so many collapses) and putting the ball in straight and bob's your uncle.
doctor_grey- Posts : 12349
Join date : 2011-04-30
Re: Change to the scrum laws in RSA
I fully agree with these proposals and I think they should be more widely adopted for the good of the game.
RuggerRadge2611- Posts : 7194
Join date : 2011-03-04
Age : 39
Location : The North, The REAL North (Beyond the Wall)
Re: Change to the scrum laws in RSA
I think if the ball had to be put in straight it would make the front row focus more on getting the ball then getting a penalty. If props had to focus more on keeping their hooker up so he can get the ball (it seems apart from Hartley we rarely see Hooker pinged.
All the scrum seems to be is the two opposing props in a one armed wrestle trying to get the other person to the ground and get the pen.
All the scrum seems to be is the two opposing props in a one armed wrestle trying to get the other person to the ground and get the pen.
Brendan- Posts : 4253
Join date : 2012-04-08
Location : Cork
Re: Change to the scrum laws in RSA
Poorfour wrote:damage_13 wrote:it means sweet FA if they don't put the ball in straight, because all you have there is three props pushing with no chance to compete for the ball and less chance to get penalties from forcing incorrect pushing or binding.
I think one of the benefits is that if you eliminate pushing before the ball goes in and minimise the hit, making it easier for props to get a bind, refs will have less to focus on at engagement and will be better able to police the straight put in. The over-emphasis on the hit we have today distorts the scrum, and anything that reverses that can only be a good thing.
+1.
The biggest factor in any scrum being stable is props being able to bind. The speed and force of the hit at the highest level combined with ridiculously tight shirts the front row now sport just make it a lottery half the time, particularly for the LH who doesn't generally have the option of (illegally) binding on his opponents arm. If they don't get a good bind, the shoulders smash into each other and the scrum goes down. Anything that starts the process of reversing this nonsense is a good thing. Props will always take scrums down if they are under pressure and can get away with it, that is their birthright, but at least being able to bind properly gives a) the prop getting the nudge on more chance to drive through and b) the poor old referee a chance to at least make a quicker judgement call on who is binding correctly.
I played hooker throughout my teens and early 20's and, granted this was back in the sequential binding days, the amount of re-set scrums was tiny. A few per game at most and that was normally down to nefarious tight-heads and not an unstable scrum. At international level, the situation is completely reversed. We now have a few scrums per game that are contested correctly from the first engagement. Most of them hit the deck before the fat-boys get a go at pushing each other. This is the cream of the sport and is currently a terrible advertisement for potential players, fans and worried parents who quiver at the thought of their kids playing 1 to 3. Hookers might actually revert back to being hookers as well, rather than auxiliary props who can throw a ball into a lineout.
Putting the ball in straight and no-pushing before it is fed are more more easy for a referee to enforce when the impact of the front rows isn't 100 miles per hour with the force of a herd of elephants. Give the props a chance to bind, the scrums will be more stable and the rest should be easy......
Mind the windows Tino.- Beano
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