internet and commentary has ruined wrestling

if you think about the "attitude" era and before that with ecw wcw etc you cant help but notice that todays wwe product is bland and boring with the same storylines with different "superstars" repeated over and over e.g the shield (believe in the shieeelllld!!!!) and the corre and nexus are a rip off of former groups like the four horsemen and nwo whereas back in the good times you had dx which was something new and innovative people hadnt seen before with the vulgarity and nudity and sex references and the crotch chop which is now known world wide.....and you had the wwe "universe" cheering and jumping out of their seats for so many matches and great moments which have been shown on this forum many times e.g chris and eddie hugging at the end of wrestlemania 20 with people clapping and cheering.........(one of my favourites) whereas if that happened nowadays people would just sit there silent with the commentary being something like

king: "aww their hugging"
cole: "oh please"

there's nothing to get excited about anymore and i think part of this is the commentary quality has evidently dropped ALOT over the years so much so that i dont pay any attention to it on raw or smackdown anymore although smackdown is abit more bearable due to jbl but not much better.....but i also think the growth of the internet is to blame as most things can be predicted and reported on and information about it leaked by the media before they happen thus taking away the excitement when it occurs e.g hamilton going to mercedes this year or van persie signing for man utd. so i want your guys opinions. what do you think is the reason for wrestling in general not being as exciting as it was during the "attitude" era and before?

so we need Haymen and good ol' JR back on commentary? And what about the Spanish announcers? Are they ruining it too?

Don't necessarily need the old guys back, but some insight and enthusiasm from the current batch would be lovely instead of pedantry and slagging each other off.

Jbl has really enhanced my viewin experience, enjoy his commentary-
Builds people up and is excited at the big moments.

dallym wrote:so we need Haymen and good ol' JR back on commentary? And what about the Spanish announcers? Are they ruining it too?

no the spanish guys are fine

Do you watch wrestling purely for nudity, vulgarity, sex references and crotch chops?
Is the product enhanced by nudity, vulgarity, sex references and crotch chops?

For me the Attitude Era was succesful not because of the above. Stone Cold Steve Austin never once got nude or he never crotch chopped. Mick Foley rarely went near a vulgar reference, perhaps an occasional hint but nothing more than Cena would do today.
The Attitude Era was succesful not due to the allowing of Miss Kitty's boobs, Katie Vick storyline or Xpac gesticulating towards his groin. It was succesful due to having a load of guys that were fantastically over at the same time, Austin, Rock, HHH, Foley etc.

Hero wrote:Do you watch wrestling purely for nudity, vulgarity, sex references and crotch chops?
Is the product enhanced by nudity, vulgarity, sex references and crotch chops?

For me the Attitude Era was succesful not because of the above. Stone Cold Steve Austin never once got nude or he never crotch chopped. Mick Foley rarely went near a vulgar reference, perhaps an occasional hint but nothing more than Cena would do today.
The Attitude Era was succesful not due to the allowing of Miss Kitty's boobs, Katie Vick storyline or Xpac gesticulating towards his groin. It was succesful due to having a load of guys that were fantastically over at the same time, Austin, Rock, HHH, Foley etc.

think you missed the point.......i meant it was a group that did something different whereas today when a group forms its the same thing random attacks for money

there hasn't been any genuinly new storylines in nowadays wwe that hasnt been a rip off of something

sjh5678 wrote:there hasn't been any genuinly new storylines in nowadays wwe that hasnt been a rip off of something

Do you still view the product on a regular basis?

Wrestling, just like any other form of entertainment, will have very little innovation at this point. It's hard to create a totally original idea in any form of entertainment, most TV shows, films, songs and books will have taken parts of others, very little are original. Wrestling is no different, I'm sure if you looked at the Attitude Era, a lot those stories would be very similar to those that came before it. Arguably a lot of the more extreme moments of that era were stolen from ECW, and ECW will have taken them from somewhere else.

I don't think something has to be totally new to still be enjoyable, for example, I love Rocky IV, it takes almost all it's key elements from the other three films before it, but this doesn't harm my viewing experience. In the same way, the similarities between certain storylines today doesn't harm my enjoyment.

I do however agree with your points about commentary. At the moment I think it is actually harming the product rather than enhancing it. They'll often talk over big moments in matches or just don't react to fairly big things. I think Jerry Lawler is currently the worst as he just seems bored and he's been phoning it in for years. Michael Cole has become a bit too arrogant, and I don't mean as a character, it's quite clear that he thinks he's an amazing play by play guy being the "voice of the WWE", but he's actually woefully inadequate. If anything, the added experience has made him a worse commentator, as he was better without any real character just calling the action with a JBL or Tazz providing the colour commentary with real character.

I'm not sure how you can be so down on wrestling.

Personally I think the whole industry is in the best health it's been in, in a long time. WWE's 3 hour Raw's, while perhaps a bit of a challange to watch live at times, has put greater emphasis on mid-undercard and tag teams than it has in a long time. Their talent roster is also the strongest it has been in years, especially when compared to the dark days of the late 00's, HHH's recruitment drive is picking the best on outside talent regardless of background, and NXT can now boast one of the strongest talent roster anywhere in the world.

TNA showed last year how right they can get things if they do it properly. Their in a bit of a slump right now (IMO anyways) with the A&8's storyline, but their card is chock-a-block with real talent, Aires, Roode, Storm, Joe, Magnus, Styles, Kazaniels...I could go on. As always with TNA some over paid veterans are stifling some real talent, but it's certainally far from unwatchable and is probably superior to WCW at its worst.

ROH seems to be finding it's feet again, their were rumblings of discontent under the Cornette regime but Hunter 'Delerious' Johnson seems to know what the fans want and the wrestling is always of a high standard, with Steen providing a real freshness and shot in the arm as champion with his high intensity brawling and dynamic mic style.

Around the rest of the indies, PWG, DGUSA and Evolve are churning out some astonishing wrestling, I don't see it all obviously but from what I have seen and from what I'm reading the standard of at least in-ring activity is some of the highest that has ever been seen, PWG in particular, never seem to put on a bad card. Alongside these wrestling cards, Chakira continues to provide their own blend of wresting and comedy while CZW is there for the garbage wresling fan, if you like that sort of thing.

Over in Japan, NJPW, despite what I've heard of some rumblings of discontent among the gajin, is having a resurgence of late, IWGP Champion Hiroshi Tanahasi has probably established himself as a real legend up there with the likes of Kobashi, Misawa, Kawada, Turuta, Fujinami, Muta etc (aplolgies if any of those are spelt wrong) and they've recently established Okada as real wonderkid talent. Alongside the rest of a talented crew they recently drew their biggest full paying crowd in years (around 29k) and their venture onto IPPV has reportedly been very sucessful though I don't have any exact figures for you.

Dragon Gate also continues to dish out their unique and fantastically exciting brand of wresting with the brand expanding into the US and to a lesser extent the UK and Europe in recent years.

Speaking of the UK, I'm no means an authority on the local product (to my eternal shame), but various promotions are able to host regular shows, drawing healthy loyal crowds, obviously it'll probably never again reach the heights of the World of Sport days, as well as this some of the talents produced are fantastic, my favorites from what I've seen are El Ligero, Scotland's own Wonderkid Noam Dar, All the members of The Leaders of the New School (Scurll and Sabre Jr) and Project Ego (Travis and Kirby) and Jack Gallagher. These guys are outstanding wrestlers and will hopefully join the ever growing list of brits making their way across the Atlantic.

So with all that said, I'm more than happy about the state of wrestling at the moment.

Looking back about the Attitude era, obviously it's all about perception and personal opinion but I often hear people say it was the vulgarity, nudity, swearing, blood and hardcore that is missing from wrestling today, but for me WWF at the time had a phenomenal cast of performers at the top of its card, Austin, Rock, HHH, Foley, that is a freak collection of all time great talent that will probably never be assembled again. I don't think that era would be remebered half as fondly if those guys never turned up.

The attitude era also gave rise to one of my least favorite parts of wrestling, car-crash booking, it's ruined many a good wrestling promotion and while todays WWE is far from perfect, I am much happier with the 'bland and boring' storylines that you described, that are slowly starting to appear (and how you can describe the Shield as boring is beyond me, it's one of the boldest, strongest and most origional pushes of new guys that WWE has attempted in years).

One place where I will agree with you is that commentary has gone downhill in recent years is commentary, King and Cole don't measure up to the greats of old and Matthews over on Smackdown is bland. JBL for me is a bit of an enigma, at his best he's like Heenan at his best, quick, funny and ensightful, at his worst he's like Heenan at his worst, argumentative, belittling and detracting from whats meant to be going on in the ring. I like Regal on NXT and when he teams up with JR for the main events it's a world class commetary team.

Sorry if this was a bit of a long winded reply, but to sum up, personally I don't believe wrestling is ruined, in fact I haven't been more positive about the product in a long time, both on a large and small scale, nothings perfect for sure, but if it was what would we moan about?

Oh and for the record as for the Spanish announce team, Marcelo Rodríguez is dragging the team down, he should never have replaced Hugo Savinovich who was like JR, Heenan and Ventura all rolled into one (all be it speaking a language I can't understand)

ECW did take alot of it's inspiration from FMW in Japan.

Crimey wrote:Wrestling, just like any other form of entertainment, will have very little innovation at this point.

Exactly. There comes a time where originality is no longer original.

So what if we've seen it before. If we enjoy it we enjoy it regardless.

If John Cena does turn heel there'll be an initial "wow" moment followed by an inevitable "it's been done before..blah, blah, blah.."

You can solve one problem by ignoring the dirt sheets. I write on bleacher, but I wish I hadn't started to cos the spoilers, the leaks, the rumours are so in your face that its hard to ignore. Plus you can't write an article only to find yourself behind the news. But if you don't need to read them then don't waste your time. I avoid this site on Tuesdays if I haven't watched Raw yet, just so I can't steal a hint of a story. Also, try to ignore wrestling hipsters.

I love wrestling, but there are problems.

A lack of competition. TNA have too much of a complex and WWE are too dominant.

Commentary. JR is kept from us, King should retire and WWE have forgotten his best work was the loveable heel character. Is JBL good or is the standard so low he seems good? I'm still not sure. There is old midcard talent they could find to make a fresh team, but laziness stops them. Cole is forced to play a character because there is so little going on at that desk.

Characters. There isn't enough character in the roster. Ricardo shows how important it can be. WWE seems to squash anything natural out of people.

Long term storytelling outside the main event is almost always awful, if evident at all.

JBL is fantastic, he's the best colour they've had since Jesse Ventura

Dr Gregory House MD wrote:

TNA showed last year how right they can get things if they do it properly. Their in a bit of a slump right now (IMO anyways) with the A&8's storyline, but their card is chock-a-block with real talent, Aires, Roode, Storm, Joe, Magnus, Styles, Kazaniels...I could go on. As always with TNA some over paid veterans are stifling some real talent, but it's certainally far from unwatchable and is probably superior to WCW at its worst.

there's an understatement! I think TNA circa 2011-2013 has been better than WCW circa 1999-2001 and I genuinely think eventually TNA will shake off the elephant in the room that is the memory of WCW and supercede it. TNA are improving and even though they've made some radical changes this year, I think they are positive ones. Once TNA gets on the road in march I expect the product will improve again with better crowds.

talkingpoint wrote:

Dr Gregory House MD wrote:

TNA showed last year how right they can get things if they do it properly. Their in a bit of a slump right now (IMO anyways) with the A&8's storyline, but their card is chock-a-block with real talent, Aires, Roode, Storm, Joe, Magnus, Styles, Kazaniels...I could go on. As always with TNA some over paid veterans are stifling some real talent, but it's certainally far from unwatchable and is probably superior to WCW at its worst.

there's an understatement! I think TNA circa 2011-2013 has been better than WCW circa 1999-2001 and I genuinely think eventually TNA will shake off the elephant in the room that is the memory of WCW and supercede it. TNA are improving and even though they've made some radical changes this year, I think they are positive ones. Once TNA gets on the road in march I expect the product will improve again with better crowds.

Personally I think TNA have some fundemental areas they need to improve on, the X, Tag and Knockout divisons have gone from unique selling points to after thoughts and they need to be adressed/bolstered, the Hogan's are overshadowing the product with little to no impact on ratings/ppv buys and for me anyways A&8s are possibly the worst faction in wrestling history and the sooner that storyline is given a mercy killing the better.

4 PPV's a year is a good move (possibly too little if anything) and going on the road and getting away from the impact xome is all kinds of win.

The X-Division is fine if you ask me, it catapulted Aries into the main event and RVD is a good gatekeeper champion for the midcard. It's been a good way to break Kenny King and Christian York into the roster. The One Night specials will help to restore some of that uniqueness to the x-division hopefully. The tag division does need some rethinking but TNA seem to have a skill at creating great tag teams - who would have thought Joe and Magnus would have made such a great time last year? Kazaniels have been a great duo and Aries & Roode could work magic too. Aces & Eights aren't the worst faction imo they just need direction. Unfortunately Hogan is overshadowing the main event at times, he's never going to change now though.

My issue with the X Division at the moment is that there's no one at all that seems to be coming close to be being built up to challenge RVD and that he in himself is a lazy champion. Joey Ryan they could have easily got behind but he's not even on air again despite only recently getting the Gutcheck push. Zema Ion is looking a really decent X Division star but again is ushered aside despite often putting on the best performance of the roster in his matches.

Tag wise who is there as a face team that anyone gives a rats about?

FreekShow wrote:

sjh5678 wrote:there hasn't been any genuinly new storylines in nowadays wwe that hasnt been a rip off of something

Do you still view the product on a regular basis?

no not that much....if theres anything from the shows that i think looks interesting like a return or something i might have a look but other than that no

sjh5678 wrote:

FreekShow wrote:

sjh5678 wrote:there hasn't been any genuinly new storylines in nowadays wwe that hasnt been a rip off of something

Do you still view the product on a regular basis?

no not that much....if theres anything from the shows that i think looks interesting like a return or something i might have a look but other than that no

Then I don't understand how you expect to enjoy the show, you can only get full enjoyment of it if you follow it. Watching only for surprises is ridiculous.

Especially when you've already read the spoilers on them.

like i put before im just not that excited about it anymore........ok il try and watch full shows til wrestlemania which is supposed to be the biggest ppv of the year then il see how i feel after that

If you get chance also try and catch NXT, that showcases how diverse the guys they are bringing through now in comparison to 5 years ago when they were cookie cut straight from the Orton mold.

Hero wrote:My issue with the X Division at the moment is that there's no one at all that seems to be coming close to be being built up to challenge RVD and that he in himself is a lazy champion. Joey Ryan they could have easily got behind but he's not even on air again despite only recently getting the Gutcheck push. Zema Ion is looking a really decent X Division star but again is ushered aside despite often putting on the best performance of the roster in his matches.

Tag wise who is there as a face team that anyone gives a rats about?

agree they now need to push someone, I fully expect there to be an x-division match at Lockdown and would not be surprised if RVD finally dropped the belt - 6 months is a decent stretch as champion, unless they are going to defend the x-division title at the one night stands. Hernandez & Chavo make a good tag team, although not the most popular. But TNA have a knack of creating tag teams with chemistry and should they put some thought into it I'm sure they could easily create a new tag team to challenge Roode & Aries.

I must admit I now stay away from all spoilers now and I'm enjoying it more and i don't go on any wrestling websites, like most news media outlets they report on the most pointless story

Kay Fabe wrote:JBL is fantastic, he's the best colour they've had since Jesse Ventura

Sometimes, but then other times he is as guilty as the others for ignoring the ring and he needs to stop repeating the same researched facts.