The style of rugby in the AP

It seems to me there has been a real cultural shift over the last couple of years, with pretty much every AP side trying to play with ball in hand to a greater or lesser degree. When the pitches are sufficiently firm, and the weather reasonable, this is leading to a lot of entertaining rugby. Certainly the accuracy could still be better, but the intent is there and this can only be good news for the future of the game in England.

I credit Quins for showing that entertaining rugby can be effective rugby.

I don't watch a lot of aviva but i have noticed this change too in the hec during the last two years, with sides like Saints, Chiefs, Gloucester and Quins playing a lot more open rugby, Saracens not so much though.

Even Sarries are getting there. 6 months ago I despaired of them.

From Telgraph. as we might expect Quins with a high offload game have the most passes. I would say Wasps have a more flowing passing game though (based purely on watching). Interesting that Glaws are down in 11th spot.



Team Matches Passes
1 Harlequins 15 2148
2 Exeter 15 2001
3 Sale 15 1982
4 Saracens 15 1848
5 London Wasps 15 1825
6 Leicester 15 1732
7 Northampton 15 1651
8 Worcester 15 1637
9 Bath 15 1635
10 London Irish 15 1632
11 Gloucester 15 1533
12 London Welsh 15 1477

again Quins at the top. Glaws better at running than passing perhaps?

Team Matches Metres
1 Harlequins 15 6132
2 Exeter 15 6032
3 London Wasps 15 5768
4 Saracens 15 5367
5 Worcester 15 5205
6 Gloucester 15 5090
7 Sale 15 4887
8 London Welsh 15 4778
9 Leicester 15 4726
10 Northampton 15 4567
11 Bath 15 4555
12 London Irish 15 4269

Exeter usurp Quins for most defenders beaten and clean breaks:

1 Exeter 15 227
2 Harlequins 15 215
3 Gloucester 15 195
4 Worcester 15 192
5 London Wasps 15 189
6 Leicester 15 182
7 Sale 15 178
8 London Irish 15 174
9 Saracens 15 160
10 Bath 15 155
11 London Welsh 15 148
12 Northampton 15 130


Team Matches Clean breaks
1 Exeter 15 90
2 Harlequins 15 87
3 London Wasps 15 79
4 Saracens 15 73
5 Worcester 15 72
6 Leicester 15 66
7 Sale 15 65
8 Gloucester 15 62
9 Northampton 15 58
10 London Welsh 15 49
11 Bath 15 44
12 London Irish 15 42

But when it comes to tackling, Quins have made the least. Theypass most, run most and have to tackle least. Might explain why they are top of the table

Team Matches Tackles
1 Bath 15 1548
2 Leicester 15 1482
3 London Wasps 15 1453
4 London Welsh 15 1440
5 Saracens 15 1429
6 Sale 15 1407
7 Worcester 15 1397
8 Gloucester 15 1390
9 London Irish 15 1385
10 Exeter 15 1371
11 Northampton 15 1366
12 Harlequins 15 1186

Tackling the least just means you have the ball the most or Cipriani in your team (explaining why sale are so high)

Interesting club stats LT. THe only stat i was a little shocked at was Wasps at 5 for defenders beaten. With Wade & varndell both firing they tend to leave defenders eating their dust!

Interesting stats is Exeters low position in the league due to poor execution because on stats they should be just below Quins

rosbif wrote:Interesting stats is Exeters low position in the league due to poor execution because on stats they should be just below Quins

Exeter of later have been missing that last 10%, they haven't been turning there plays into points. I think they'll bounce back soon enough.

I think these stats show how Saracens aren't actually as boring as you would think. Just really poor at actually finishing moves off.

4th most passes, 4th most metres, 4th most clean breaks - yet the lowest try count.

Probably rather take the 3 points than go for 7.

The stats show how average Leicester have been this season.

nathan wrote:The stats show how average Leicester have been this season.

Yup

Yup poor old Leicester with their HC quarter final and 3rd in the AP table (with a clear top 3 as things stand). Leicester have been impressive. Kind of under the radar but up near the top yet again.

Ultimately it doesn't matter who tops the stats unless it turns into wins and bonus points.

beshocked wrote:Yup poor old Leicester with their HC quarter final and 3rd in the AP table (with a clear top 3 as things stand).

Ultimately it doesn't matter who tops the stats unless it turns into wins and bonus points.

True, but in previous seasons we were the top try scorers. It seams we may have gone back to the older style of play in recent times.

We are trying to play an expansive game - but our pass execution has been dreadfull. With the number of passes straight to touch I reckon we must have had lessons from JD2.

We have struggled our way through a lot of matches this season. That we are getting points is great, but things just are not clicking atm. Hopefully they will click as we head into the business end of the season.

nathan wrote:

beshocked wrote:Yup poor old Leicester with their HC quarter final and 3rd in the AP table (with a clear top 3 as things stand).

Ultimately it doesn't matter who tops the stats unless it turns into wins and bonus points.

True, but in previous seasons we were the top try scorers. It seams we may have gone back to the older style of play in recent times.

No less effective though. Most of the gushing has been over Quins but Leicester are always there in the mix battling. With your "attacking" style last season you failed to make the HC quarter finals, this time round with a tough harder edge you made it into the HC quarter finals in a tough group. Got to be in it to win it.

You have been relatively quietly been going about your business in the AP, winning matches.

Plus you have only scored 4 less tries than Quins. Only 2 more tries conceded than Saracens. 2nd lowest points conceded. Leicester's points difference is +99. 2nd highest I believe.

Quins are happy to concede more points but score more.

Saracens and Leicester both have low amount of points conceded. Low try count against them too.

Watching the televised matches this weekend was pleasing, because it is obvious that the AP teams are now playing some very good rugby, yes even those pesky Saracens seem willing to play an expansive game...

The Quins v Tigers match for example, both sides turned up to play and it made for an exciting match. I thought Wasps v Glaws epitomised this 'new style' of play, and Bath's come-back against LI was something to behold (one of the best tries i've ever seen scored in that match).

This does seem to be bearing fruit on the international scene too.

Most of the old impression were completely Love sacks. 6 or 6 years ago the premiership had more tries per game and closer scorelines than the Magners/Celtic league. People would just watch whatever games and when there was a Poopie one say "typical". If it was a good one then it would be "one off". The opposite seemed to be true for the Magners (and don't get me started on the T14, most of the games I've watched of those were boring as hell).

I does help that the RFU refs actually implement the IRB directives on emphasise on tacklers releasing and not getting in the way.

Yes, but there's no doubt in my mind that the typical AP sides is more expansive now than say 2 or 3 years ago.

Tbh Tigers game plan has been on the decline over the last few seasons, you're crazy run at the end of the season last year salvaging your stats from mediocrity.

This season has felt better as not only are Quins showing you can win silverware while running the ball but teams like Wasps, Exeter (until recently), Glos, Saracens and even Wuss have all bought in to attacking rugby rather then negative rugby. Just a shame Sale and LI can't manage their form of last seasons.

For me as a Quins fan those stats are nothing too special, we've nearly always played like that, what would be interesting to see for us now would be penalties won at the scrum and tackles missed. The first i'd hazard a guess at being higher then ever before for us, the second i'd also guess was very high as our style of play lends to opposition teams getting outside us but our cover tackling is very good.

Lastly i'd love to see stats for chances converted/missed, something like points taken from visits to the opposition 22, that'd be the most informative.

Quins and Wasps run the balls in very different ways. Quins do a lot of short passes and tend to keep the game very narrow while Wasps look to put a lot more width on the game.

Quins tendency to attack with a phalanx of runners in a narrow space does indeed make them very vulnerable to turnovers - especially if the opposition have pace on the wings.

The main difference between Quins and tigers is Quins pass before contact - while tigers attack has looked to drive into contact, recycle quickly then attack the space left over. This is why we fail so often against teams that match us physically as if they slow down our attacking ball - we are up the creek.

Oh and yappy, no need to be quite so disparaging - outside of the RWC we did much better than any othe club in the league (that is not just a crazy run at the end of the season) and it took a great display in the finale for Quins to win.

Sorry LT, didn't mean to come across so negatively. All I meant was that to me Tigers attack seems to have faultered a bit and you guys don't look quite as balanced as you were, except for that incredible run at the end of last season.

Obviously youll probably now thrash us in the final...

I think Conor O'Shea is working to a plan based on the idea that defences evolve very quickly in the modern game, so he's constantly trying to find something unexpected to do.

Last year it was about offloading out of the tackle and flooding the channel, this year it's about offloading before the tackle - sometimes so fast that it's only after the play you can work out where the ball is.

I think next year's style will be to suddenly move the ball wide once the defence has bunched up around the ball carrier - something that may account for the recent spate of interception tries.

Poorfour wrote:I think next year's style will be to suddenly move the ball wide once the defence has bunched up around the ball carrier - something that may account for the recent spate of interception tries.

Maybe, but I woudl say that Bell, Masi, Daly with Wade and Varndell on the wings have the skills and pace to play this kind of game.

Lowe can, but JTH, Hopper and Casson have other strengths. Monye is quick - but runs in straight lines, and the other wingers are decent but not inspiring.

LondonTiger wrote:

Poorfour wrote:I think next year's style will be to suddenly move the ball wide once the defence has bunched up around the ball carrier - something that may account for the recent spate of interception tries.

Maybe, but I woudl say that Bell, Masi, Daly with Wade and Varndell on the wings have the skills and pace to play this kind of game.

Lowe can, but JTH, Hopper and Casson have other strengths. Monye is quick - but runs in straight lines, and the other wingers are decent but not inspiring.

Hopefully we can use Walker or Chis on the wing

I'm looking forward to Walker breaking into the senior squad. He is seriously, seriously fast. And not forgetting that in the current squad we have Stegmann, Smith, OLH and Williams, who all know how to use a bit of space.

Anyway, isn't the aim of creating space out wide to make life easy for the wings?

I've said for a while that what we need is a wide game for when Casson and Hopper/Lowe are in the centres. Trying our usual punch and pass routine isn't as effective against the committed defences we're finding now, especially without just one or two key ball carriers (JTH and Marler).

Using a second five eighths style 12 to get the ball wide to Walker, Chis, Brown, Stegmann or Smith would be a very good variation.

Oh and this years tactics seem to be suffering a lot without Mo on top form or another wrecking ball with pace to help the crash bang wallop, Guest for all his pace just doesn't quite bring that defender bowling power that Mo had last season.