The Only Way is Up? Zebre v Dragons Thread

[Luckless Pedestrian]

I'm not suggesting there's ever a good time to lose 3 - 60 at home, but the Dragons' trouncing at the hands of Glasgow came the week before our trip to Zebre, the only side below us in the Pro12. I'm not sure the timing could have been worse. They say you have to hit rock bottom before you can start to recover; I'm wondering whether Friday's game was our rock bottom, or whether we still have further to fall this coming Sunday.

What changes would you make to the starting XV? Do you expect to see any changes to the gameplan? And who do you expect to win?

[Notch]

It's an amazing chance for Zebre. They still make far, far too many mistakes in a game. They do lots of hard work to put themselves in winning positions and then they give their opponents chances to beat them on a silver platter. There's a lot of good about their game but the sabotage it with a high error count.

But one thing they do have is lots of elusive runners in the backline and if you stand off them they can cause trouble and create chances. Defence needs to be organised and aggressive because once you apply that pressure when you don't have the ball, they are rushed and they make even more mistakes. Good team to try and play without the ball so long as you can find grass with your kicks and the chase is good.

[LeinsterFan4life]

They might be missing Bergamasco if Parrise is banned. Which would be a big blow to Zebre.

[Kingshu]

Its intresting, Dragons will be embrassed and will be wanting to put that right with a win, and will be fired up for it.

Zebre will seen this as one of there best chances of getting a win this season, home agaist the second bottom team, and will therefore be fired up for it also.

Zebre despite never winning have shown some promise in thier games so far.
Dragons are still a handy team though.

I'm going to predict a Zebre win, Dragons will be hurt by the Glasgow loss, but I don't see them being fired up to put it right untill the next home game in RP (Scarlets I think), they may still be suffeing from self doubt and Zebre may go in smelling blood.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

We'll need a good start on Sunday. If Zebre get an early try or two then they'll really smell blood.

I should add that I really want to see Zebre get their first win in the Pro12, I just don't want it to be this weekend!

[bedfordwelsh]

LP,

As I mentioned on the Dragons Glasgow thread I am not holding breath, we really need people to stand up and be counted after Saturday but a loss wouldn't surprise me.

[Kingshu]

I mentioned on another thread Dragons, aim this season was to turn RP into a difficult ground to travel to,
4 wins out of 8, (and some close losses) has restored that somewhat, however the loss to Glasgow really undid a lot of hard work.
I expect the loss will galvanise Dragons at home for the rest of the season,
Leinster first up and I expect Dragons to put in a good showing against them, a win would win back some pride at RP

But its a win against Scarlets I think Dragons will target to restore pride.

Leinster, Scarlets and Munster still to visit RP and I expect Dragons will be really fired up for them to restore pride, and undo the damge in reputation Glasgow did for RP. Away from home, I don't see them as being fired up and Zebre could pinch it.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

Unfortunately our 'home' game against the Scarlets will be played at the Millennium Stadium, not Dave Parade.

[bedfordwelsh]

kingshu,

We are playing the Scarlets at the MS in the double header so no home advantage there not that there seems to be much at RP at the moment.

I just think we need a win this weekend more than anything else.

[Kingshu]

I forgot about that double header.
Leinster and Munster at RP, Dragons will put it right against one of these two.

It may help them that there is a bigger crowd at MS, because a win against Scarlets would get more media coverage, and have a bigger crowd, it may be seen as the chance to restore pride back into the Dragons shirt.

[youngguns6]

It's a terrible time to be a Dragons fan. This season has been dreadful. Every year we loose our best players, this year will be no differnt and next year Toby will be off. How can any team look to build and compete when all our best players leave. Every season I think we're only two or three players away from being a very good side but then we go and loose a few. We have some very promising backs and some of the best backrow forwards in the country.. What we don't have is a front 5. Would Adam jones be getting any game time at any other team in the league? We just can't compete when our front five is destroyed.

Zebre will smash us.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

It's all my fault. We ended the 2010/11 season really well so I decided to get a season ticket - and that's when things started going downhill.

You're right about the front five. Ian Nimmo looks the part, but then so does a drawing of a fanny.

[Notch]

It's all my fault. We ended the 2010/11 season really well so I decided to get a season ticket - and that's when things started going downhill.

You're right about the front five. Ian Nimmo looks the part, but then so does a drawing of a fanny.

God.

[pioden gorllewin]

robin davey making his feelings know on twitter. one tweet about the wru taking over the dragons being the way forward the other tweet " forget about either touted 10 (or anyone else) joining the dragons. no deals even before the glasgow debacle - asking too much"

things do seem a bit bleak at the moment with the dragons. i hope they can turn things around, welsh rugby needs a strong gwent region.

on a side note has any dragon fans heard of a player heading west? a reasonably source on the scarlets forum has said gyppo is close to signing another prospect from the gwent region.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

I haven't heard anything, Pioden.

[pioden gorllewin]

luckless. not sure if it's a lewis rawlins type of signing on a development contract, or someone more significant.

[Brendan]

I do think that now is a better time to play Zebre then after the 6 Nations. I hope Zebre win.

Next year Dargons could be in trouble. The Italian Federation is only going to make Zebre stonger esp as there are more young itail players coming through.

Dargons seem to be getting less backing (akin to Connacht and the IRFU about five years ago). Only difference is that the WRU might not want to keep them, though from all acounts it is a hotbed for developing rugby.

I think whoever is ahead by more then a score will win it.

[Guest]

I really hope we do lose now. If our worst result in history isn't enough to convince our board that changes need to be made, then it may take a Zebre win on the weekend. I had a feeling Zebre might beat us, but I don't see how we can turn things round in a week without mass changes (players who fancy tackling or coaches who wish to offer up a game plan.

Sadly, I won't be about on here to discuss it as I'm away for three months, but I really am in the mindset that I hope we suffer a fair bit more humiliation to snap our board out of their slumber. I get that we are pretty restricted by the WRU, but there's no excuse for anybody from our region accepting mediocrity.

[bedfordwelsh]

We have always struggled up front but annoyingly we do have some good players in the squad and I think a bit more depth than maybe a few seasons back but for some reason or other, be it players attitude, coaches, set up etc we just seem to be going backwards.

I do wish someone would come out and let us know what really went on with Charvis leaving, I know he lost his licence for D&D but a train to Swansea and back few times a week wouldn't have been to hard to deal with.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

Rev, the problem is that if the board did decide to get rid of the coaches (and Robert Beale), who comes in?

[bedfordwelsh]

I really hope we do lose now. If our worst result in history isn't enough to convince our board that changes need to be made, then it may take a Zebre win on the weekend. I had a feeling Zebre might beat us, but I don't see how we can turn things round in a week without mass changes (players who fancy tackling or coaches who wish to offer up a game plan.

Sadly, I won't be about on here to discuss it as I'm away for three months, but I really am in the mindset that I hope we suffer a fair bit more humiliation to snap our board out of their slumber. I get that we are pretty restricted by the WRU, but there's no excuse for anybody from our region accepting mediocrity.

Rev,

As the saying goes harsh but fair, not only was it our worst result it was (unless mistaken) the biggest defeat margin wise since the leagues inception in whatever guise it maybe in.

I know there may not be the best relationship between some of the GWent clubs and the Region but I know for fact that there are young lads out and about the clubs that would love a crack at a Regional contract and on Saturdays showing they deserve it more than some of those on the pitch.

[bedfordwelsh]

Rev, the problem is that if the board did decide to get rid of the coaches (and Robert Beale), who comes in?

The coach himself should be thinking of his position let alone the board sacking him.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

True enough. Darren Edwards said the buck stops with him. Either he didn't mean it or he doesn't know what it means.

[Guest]

I would rather see Kingsley there, as at least his heart bleeds Gwent Rugby.

I also don't see how Greg Woods or Steve Law at Bedwas could do any worse, if we really are worried about spending coin

[Luckless Pedestrian]

It was our cluelessness when we had the ball that was as worrying as our defence on Friday. We had plenty of ball but it seemed like we didn't know what to do with it. I blame the players for their performance but I blame the coaches for the gameplan - and I'm not sure there was one. We played like strangers.

One other thing: I'm used to not seeing Darren Edwards in the dugout, but there was no sign of Rob Appleyard on Friday either (and I don't think he was there for the Treviso game). Something's definitely up.

[bedfordwelsh]

I would rather see Kingsley there, as at least his heart bleeds Gwent Rugby.

I also don't see how Greg Woods or Steve Law at Bedwas could do any worse, if we really are worried about spending coin

Rev,

After Turner went I always said they should have pushed the boat out and got kingsley in there, surely he could do a dual role even if he still wanted to be involved with Russia.

[Cardiff Dave]

It was our cluelessness when we had the ball that was as worrying as our defence on Friday. We had plenty of ball but it seemed like we didn't know what to do with it. I blame the players for their performance but I blame the coaches for the gameplan - and I'm not sure there was one. We played like strangers.

One other thing: I'm used to not seeing Darren Edwards in the dugout, but there was no sign of Rob Appleyard on Friday either (and I don't think he was there for the Treviso game). Something's definitely up.

Rob Appleyard fuming to Phil Steele after the game.........
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/21481863

[Luckless Pedestrian]

I saw that earlier. I heard that he spoke to Phil Steele during the game and was singling players out for criticism, which is poor. Even if they're playing like drains, you don't name and shame. How's that going to help morale?

[Taffineastbourne]

I hope that we show some guts against Zebre after the debacle against Glasgow.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

It was shocking, especially when you remember the heart we showed against Bayonne and Wasps recently. It's as if everything that could have gone wrong did go wrong.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

Hmm...

'Chairman Martyn Hazell admits the Newport Gwent Dragons coaches could be the "problem" after their record Pro12 defeat to Glasgow.

"We have to go through it with the coaches and see what they think is the problem, or they may be the problem anyhow," said Hazell.'


http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/21498765

[VinceWLB]

Pressure will be on Zebre, no doubt about it and from what i have seen from them they play better (particularly look more motivated) away from home than in front of their poor crowd, i think this will help the Dragons.

[pioden gorllewin]

Hmm...

'Chairman Martyn Hazell admits the Newport Gwent Dragons coaches could be the "problem" after their record Pro12 defeat to Glasgow.

"We have to go through it with the coaches and see what they think is the problem, or they may be the problem anyhow," said Hazell.'


http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/21498765

The thing is if Edwards is sacked, who's decision will it be to replace him? With the WRU owning 50% of the Dragons won't they want to be part of the selection process? Do have a vague recollection that they had a bit of involvement with the appointments of Edwards & Appleyard (Might be wrong though) Don't the Dragons run the risk that the WRU will want to appoint one of their own to develop. Rather that the job going to someone more qualified like Kingsley Jones.

On the subject of team morale, the Dragon players seem a close bunch. Even see them in convoy with their shopping trolleys in asda doing their weekly shop. But do question whether they have the balance right between the nandos, starbucks, xbox lifestyle instead of doing the extra hours on the training paddock or gym in their spare time for personal improvement. I know that may sound harsh as they are young men with a social life, but at times it does seem more of a boys holiday than a rugby career.

[Kingshu]

For the coach appointment Connacht (owned by IRFU) appointed Pat Lam, even though the IRFU said they would prefer an Irish qualifed coach.

I'm sure the appointment had to be rubberstamped by the IRFU, but if they can point out that someone is the best person for the job its better to hire them (the other 3 provinces all have non Irish coaches, so it would be unfair to insist Connacht had one).

If Connacht can select the best person for the job I'm sure Dragons can.

Worring news is Michael bradley is free this summer for a new job!

[youngguns6]

I think it's unfair to say the balence between training and a social life isn't right.
If one of the players tweets this evening that's he's off to nandos with the boys then who knows what he's been doing all day. You can't train 24/7.
they start early.

Not sure weather I'd be looking to bring in a 10. Anyone will struggle behind that front five. I really think any budget avalible should be used for front 5 forwards.

[Cardiff Dave]

Hmm...

'Chairman Martyn Hazell admits the Newport Gwent Dragons coaches could be the "problem" after their record Pro12 defeat to Glasgow.

"We have to go through it with the coaches and see what they think is the problem, or they may be the problem anyhow," said Hazell.'


http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/21498765

Also he says;
"The players didn't play, it was a good Glasgow side and we cannot take that away from them, but they [the players] didn't put their heart into it."

So according to Hazell the blame lies with the coaches and/or the players.
Hmm.

[Cardiff Dave]

I think it's unfair to say the balence between training and a social life isn't right.
If one of the players tweets this evening that's he's off to nandos with the boys then who knows what he's been doing all day. You can't train 24/7.
they start early.

Not sure weather I'd be looking to bring in a 10. Anyone will struggle behind that front five. I really think any budget avalible should be used for front 5 forwards.

May as well take Tovey back as he's having very little game time at 10 nowadays.

[youngguns6]

Yeah that move has worked well tov!

Me and some mates are off to Wales Italy this weekend and we may take in the dragons game... Il be checking myself into the physc ward Tuesday.

[Cardiff Dave]

Yeah that move has worked well tov!

Me and some mates are off to Wales Italy this weekend and we may take in the dragons game... Il be checking myself into the physc ward Tuesday.

Book beforehand to avoid disappointment although saying that surely the Drags can't play as badly again, can they?

[Luckless Pedestrian]

The last 20 minutes was a capitulation, but we had a decent spell of territory and possession at the beginning of the second half. We didn't ask as many questions of Glasgow's defence as we could have done, but if Zebre's defence isn't as solid as Glasgow's was, then we could have some success. I'm still worried that sometimes it doesn't look like we know what we're doing when we have the ball - there's do much shipping on of the ball, or forwards standing still in midfield and dying with the ball. Plus, how often do moves break down because of knock ons? Cutting out the unforced errors would be a start!

SUFTMOG, Youngguns.

[youngguns6]

No, we won't play that bad again but even a victory on Sunday doesn't wipe out last weeks game. Things need sorting out.

You're right, we don't know what to do with the ball. We never have runners, no moves it's just sooo predictable. How do we expect to score try's when we just ship it along hoping someone makes a break out of nothing?

Good backs being made to look very poor by
1 - bad coaching
2 - bad front five
3 - low confidence

[glamorganalun]

Good backs being made to look very poor by
1 - bad coaching
2 - bad front five
3 - low confidence [i]

How can you say "good backs", they were rubbish last week, the tackling, passing and catching skills were a joke. There were some nice touches but then let down the side by poor skill. The Dragons defence always looks poor when Smith is not playing and not only this year.

I can't see the Dragons winning this next game with that back line, only Prydie worked hard in defence, Dan Evans is an old school Scarlet, i.e., side steps tackles, not great for a FB.

I agree the front 5 were not great, it was probably the worst game I have seen A Jones play. I think Waters at 7 will inprove the Dragons defence when he gets back up to speed. The Dragons seem to have some depth in the back row but need to find some props fast.

[bedfordwelsh]

Whislt I admit out front five (espe ially front row) has been out achilles heel you cant blame them for the performance of the backs last week and the missed tackles and dropped balls poor passes.

[Cardiff Dave]

No, we won't play that bad again but even a victory on Sunday doesn't wipe out last weeks game. Things need sorting out.

Indeed and these "Things" have to be addressed.

[dragon999]

To me it seems obvious that the coaches have "lost" the dressing room & Fridays performance seemed to bear that out - Dragons aren't great but the ease that Glasgow scored their trys gave cause for questions to be raised.
Wonder if Martyn Hazel clocked the players feelings after his monday u turn that the coaches may be the problem?
These are my thoughts & i have no insider knowledge but i have seen this sort of thing before & things seem to be following a similar pattern? Players dislike/have no faith in current management team,play like a bunch of ..........,
coaching team gets fired & caretaker/new coach comes in & miraculously performance/results improve - that's how i see it

[Luckless Pedestrian]

Dragon, like I said earlier, I'm used to not seeing Darren Edwards in the dugout, but Rob Appleyard hasn't been there the last few games either. Not only that, he was up at Eirias Park working for the Beeb the same night the Dragons had an away game.

[pioden gorllewin]

the argus is reporting that hazell is looking at kingsley jones, a forwards coach & defence coach. With Appleyard heading for the exit door:

http://www.southwalesargus.co.uk/sport/10240695.Dragons_in_approach_to_Kingsley_Jones/

[dragon999]

Looks like Appleyard will go sooner rather than later & hopefully Beale too - Kingsley would be a step in the right direction i feel

[youngguns6]

Looking at doesn't mean a lot to me. I can't help but feel its a cop out by the board.
Offer KJ a poor contract which he will turn down - "we did all we could"

I won't hold my breath until I see him coaching the players.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

I can't see Kingsley agreeing to be subordinate to Darren Edwards.

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