Ideas for next season
+7
dammit_chris
stnick88
Steven_Sharks
SirJohnnyEnglish
Fluxy
LukeLovesLuka
Ozzy3213
11 posters
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Ideas for next season
First topic message reminder :
If you have an idea for a change, please put it on here, with a heading saying what aspect of the game it relates to, and then in detail what the idea is.
If you have an idea for a change, please put it on here, with a heading saying what aspect of the game it relates to, and then in detail what the idea is.
Last edited by Ozzy3213 on Sun 26 May 2013, 5:47 pm; edited 1 time in total
Ozzy3213- Moderator
- Posts : 18500
Join date : 2011-01-29
Age : 48
Location : Sandhurst
Re: Ideas for next season
Always think the bottom clubs should get first dibs on some foreign players as generally top teams have more cash - is there a clear division at the bottom that people see? If so could we not let the teams at the bottom pick any player that isnt currently in the league?
Alternatively could we get some French teams making 'bids' for players in the league, with more money for lower teams?
Alternatively could we get some French teams making 'bids' for players in the league, with more money for lower teams?
dammit_chris- Posts : 8685
Join date : 2011-05-03
Re: Ideas for next season
Ok, so I am looking at this as a start for evening things up.
01/06/2013
Academy players who are born before 01/09/1991 must be placed into the senior squads or released, and senior squads must be within the squad limit of 40 (so seniors may need to be released to accommodate academy graduates).
02/06/2013
List drawn up of released players and some form of draft for the lower ranked teams (exact format to be determined)
14/06/2013
Structured foreign transfer window opens (draft format with only one team allowed to bid for a player at a time, possibly 2 rounds of this.)
14/07/2013
Open foreign transfer window, every man for himself.
(Squads must remain within the 40 limit at all times. If you go over then you will have one of your better players released automatically).
Thoughts???
01/06/2013
Academy players who are born before 01/09/1991 must be placed into the senior squads or released, and senior squads must be within the squad limit of 40 (so seniors may need to be released to accommodate academy graduates).
02/06/2013
List drawn up of released players and some form of draft for the lower ranked teams (exact format to be determined)
14/06/2013
Structured foreign transfer window opens (draft format with only one team allowed to bid for a player at a time, possibly 2 rounds of this.)
14/07/2013
Open foreign transfer window, every man for himself.
(Squads must remain within the 40 limit at all times. If you go over then you will have one of your better players released automatically).
Thoughts???
Ozzy3213- Moderator
- Posts : 18500
Join date : 2011-01-29
Age : 48
Location : Sandhurst
Re: Ideas for next season
Sounds bang on.
Fluxy- Aviva Premiership Commissioner
- Posts : 12117
Join date : 2011-01-28
Age : 33
Location : Isle of Wight
Re: Ideas for next season
Particularly like the foreign transfer format. Think it looks good on the face of it.
Steven_Sharks- Posts : 7528
Join date : 2011-04-19
Location : Chester/Manchester
Re: Ideas for next season
I'd go with 1 round of foreigns in the structured window on the 14th of June so we have players left to bid on in the open window! Apart from that looks spot on to me.
I'll have a look at my squad for the Lions/6 nations limit this evening/tomorrow morning but off the top see my back three improving either way. Bench would get better with 6 nations limit but not sure Lions limit would do much to it.
I'll have a look at my squad for the Lions/6 nations limit this evening/tomorrow morning but off the top see my back three improving either way. Bench would get better with 6 nations limit but not sure Lions limit would do much to it.
SirJohnnyEnglish- Posts : 8536
Join date : 2011-05-10
Age : 36
Location : Limerick
Re: Ideas for next season
How about LV players instead of Lions or Six Nations? So just the EQ and Welsh?
Fluxy- Aviva Premiership Commissioner
- Posts : 12117
Join date : 2011-01-28
Age : 33
Location : Isle of Wight
Re: Ideas for next season
that could be a good idea Fluxy.
i dont really think lower teams taking the higher teams released players would help.
like the foreign transfer structure though.
i dont really think lower teams taking the higher teams released players would help.
like the foreign transfer structure though.
stnick88- Posts : 5345
Join date : 2011-05-10
Re: Ideas for next season
Probably should stop getting rid of my Welsh players quite soon then!!!
dammit_chris- Posts : 8685
Join date : 2011-05-03
Re: Ideas for next season
LV doesn't work for me. Why pick Welsh as the only other nationality. Might as well go English and Irish or English and Scottish. At least with the Lions nations it keeps it a bit fairer for everyone.
Ozzy3213- Moderator
- Posts : 18500
Join date : 2011-01-29
Age : 48
Location : Sandhurst
Re: Ideas for next season
guys, if you need a manager at any time please PM me and I would take up the role
Guest- Guest
Re: Ideas for next season
Well like the lads have shown above, their teams just get stronger with a larger base to pick from. Whereas like myself it doesn't really make much of a difference. I get maybe one or two more to go into the quota, but I'm still struggling to fill it with quality players. Just my opinion there.
Fluxy- Aviva Premiership Commissioner
- Posts : 12117
Join date : 2011-01-28
Age : 33
Location : Isle of Wight
Re: Ideas for next season
7 lions qualified is a nonsense for me.
Might as well have no limits,
I would lose out massively as based my team around eq and Sh dynamite
Might as well have no limits,
I would lose out massively as based my team around eq and Sh dynamite
Guest- Guest
Re: Ideas for next season
why dont we have no limits then?
Is there any limits in real life?
Is there any limits in real life?
stnick88- Posts : 5345
Join date : 2011-05-10
Re: Ideas for next season
To be honest Matt, you could easily swap one or two players of calibre just to meet the quota. I'd still have to sign more players to fill it.
Fluxy- Aviva Premiership Commissioner
- Posts : 12117
Join date : 2011-01-28
Age : 33
Location : Isle of Wight
Re: Ideas for next season
for me, scrapping the EQ will help not only to level up the playing field and give those with less and worse EQ to field better sides but will increase transfer dealings as no-one wants to let english go at the moment which makes transfers a lot harder.
stnick88- Posts : 5345
Join date : 2011-05-10
Re: Ideas for next season
Reality is it will also make some of the strongest teams even stronger.
Not me probably, as the likes of Cole and Wilko are my best options, but Gloucester and Sale for example would become much, much stronger.
Not me probably, as the likes of Cole and Wilko are my best options, but Gloucester and Sale for example would become much, much stronger.
LukeLovesLuka- Posts : 5865
Join date : 2011-04-19
Age : 40
Location : London
Re: Ideas for next season
its going to be hard to agree on.
but i can almost guarantee that with the 5 EQ rule I will always be bottom 2/3 in the league as i will always have to play 2 of Dowson, Ward, Schofield, Short, Morgan, Barkley who heavily mark me down.
but i can almost guarantee that with the 5 EQ rule I will always be bottom 2/3 in the league as i will always have to play 2 of Dowson, Ward, Schofield, Short, Morgan, Barkley who heavily mark me down.
stnick88- Posts : 5345
Join date : 2011-05-10
Re: Ideas for next season
7 Lions, 4 of which have to be EQ.
Steven_Sharks- Posts : 7528
Join date : 2011-04-19
Location : Chester/Manchester
Re: Ideas for next season
It's a tough one as everyone has had different transfer/squad tactics, I've always spent a lot on young English players and got them instead of more established internationals.
It's a tough one to work out though because whatever happens it might end up increasing the gap at the top.
Lot of the issues also seem to be around teams that have changed managers a lot and the squads have had a lot of comings and goings, nearly always weakening the team by the time the new manager comes in.
Could there different rules for the bottom clubs in that they only have to have 8EQ's until their squads even out? Would also give them more money to improve depth of squads, liked Pete's suggestion of the transfer system.
It's a tough one to work out though because whatever happens it might end up increasing the gap at the top.
Lot of the issues also seem to be around teams that have changed managers a lot and the squads have had a lot of comings and goings, nearly always weakening the team by the time the new manager comes in.
Could there different rules for the bottom clubs in that they only have to have 8EQ's until their squads even out? Would also give them more money to improve depth of squads, liked Pete's suggestion of the transfer system.
dammit_chris- Posts : 8685
Join date : 2011-05-03
Re: Ideas for next season
Teams who finish in the HC places do t need more players.
Ban top 6 from any future foreigns - can only have domestic transfers?
Ban top 6 from any future foreigns - can only have domestic transfers?
LukeLovesLuka- Posts : 5865
Join date : 2011-04-19
Age : 40
Location : London
Re: Ideas for next season
I as I saw through the league, quite a few of the bigger teams an squads have a lot of players that are the threshold of the academy age or being in the full squad.
Therefore some times are going to have a decent clear out, therefore I reckon there could be more than a few decent players available.
Therefore some times are going to have a decent clear out, therefore I reckon there could be more than a few decent players available.
Fluxy- Aviva Premiership Commissioner
- Posts : 12117
Join date : 2011-01-28
Age : 33
Location : Isle of Wight
Re: Ideas for next season
But its difficult to judge where to draw boundaries like that. I'd argue that Bath's strongest side is better than mine, but my squad deals with international windows and injuries better yet they are in 9th.
If you took the top 6 as it was now that Saints, Irish and Bath would be the ones who saw the greatest benefit.
If you took the top 6 as it was now that Saints, Irish and Bath would be the ones who saw the greatest benefit.
Steven_Sharks- Posts : 7528
Join date : 2011-04-19
Location : Chester/Manchester
Re: Ideas for next season
it would have to be one rule to apply to everyone.
Most of the top EQ are at the top clubs though.
My EQ is Armitage, Dowson, Savage, Schofield, Short, Ward, Olly Morgan, Barkley. Hardly inspiring bar Armitage and Savage.
So with a 4/5 EQ rule I will always struggle. I do however have good Lions players though, Ryan Jones, Strauss, Beattie, Rennie, Peel, Wyn-Jones, Charteris.
Most of the top EQ are at the top clubs though.
My EQ is Armitage, Dowson, Savage, Schofield, Short, Ward, Olly Morgan, Barkley. Hardly inspiring bar Armitage and Savage.
So with a 4/5 EQ rule I will always struggle. I do however have good Lions players though, Ryan Jones, Strauss, Beattie, Rennie, Peel, Wyn-Jones, Charteris.
stnick88- Posts : 5345
Join date : 2011-05-10
Re: Ideas for next season
Bit harsh to cut the top 6 off from foreigns. My starting 23 is a match for anyone but I don't have the back up that some sides do. If I finish top 6 id be cheesed that I couldn't make any foreigns. Not a lot of difference between myself, Saints, Irish, Bath, Welsh but at least 3 of us won't make the top 6.
I like the look of the 6 nations limit (I have a lot of Frenchies!!)
I like the look of the 6 nations limit (I have a lot of Frenchies!!)
SirJohnnyEnglish- Posts : 8536
Join date : 2011-05-10
Age : 36
Location : Limerick
Re: Ideas for next season
I guess the reality is its three side that are cut adrift. But if you look at what the Sarries manager has done, he's proved any side can be turned round.
Maybe the bottom three sides are the ones who get dispensation on the EQ rule and foreigns?
Maybe the bottom three sides are the ones who get dispensation on the EQ rule and foreigns?
LukeLovesLuka- Posts : 5865
Join date : 2011-04-19
Age : 40
Location : London
Re: Ideas for next season
My Lions would be:
1. Jean Baptiste-Poux
2. Andrew Hore
3. Adam Jones
4. Matt Garvey
5. Mike McCarthy
6. Yannick Nyanga
7. Justin Tipuric
8. Ben Morgan
9. Ruan Pienaar
10. Nick Evans
11. JP Pieterson
12. Luke McCalister
13. Conrad Smith
14. Marland Yarde
15. Tom Homer
16. Hika Elliot 17. Matt Stevens 18. Brok Harris 19. Nick Kennedy 20. Mamuka Gorgodze 21. Jack Moates 22. Shane Gerghaty 23. Henry Trinder
1. Jean Baptiste-Poux
2. Andrew Hore
3. Adam Jones
4. Matt Garvey
5. Mike McCarthy
6. Yannick Nyanga
7. Justin Tipuric
8. Ben Morgan
9. Ruan Pienaar
10. Nick Evans
11. JP Pieterson
12. Luke McCalister
13. Conrad Smith
14. Marland Yarde
15. Tom Homer
16. Hika Elliot 17. Matt Stevens 18. Brok Harris 19. Nick Kennedy 20. Mamuka Gorgodze 21. Jack Moates 22. Shane Gerghaty 23. Henry Trinder
prop_lyd- Posts : 10387
Join date : 2011-01-28
Age : 36
Location : Rogerstone, Wales
Re: Ideas for next season
Steve made the good point earlier about also considering what the teams are like during the international windows, I struggle a lot there.
Quite like LLL's point on the bottom 3 sides having disensation, as there really isnt that much of a gap between the rest of the teams.
If we can get it to the point where everyone stands a chance of beating everyone else then should stop lower league placed teams managers leaving.
Quite like LLL's point on the bottom 3 sides having disensation, as there really isnt that much of a gap between the rest of the teams.
If we can get it to the point where everyone stands a chance of beating everyone else then should stop lower league placed teams managers leaving.
dammit_chris- Posts : 8685
Join date : 2011-05-03
Re: Ideas for next season
Right, I think we need to decide on where we are going with the EQ thing as I think not knowing is stopping people from being able to plan for next season.
Having thought long and hard about making it Lions qualified I cannot see that it would actually achieve what we want it to and close the gap between the teams.
I think whatever we do, there is a risk that the top sides get stronger, I do not think we can really do much about this, as I am not going for different rules dependant on where you are in the league, as I don't think that is fair on people who have done well with their teams and got themselves up the table.
My view is that we go with still 10 EQ in the matchday squad, but you only need 4 in the starting line up.
Thoughts?
Having thought long and hard about making it Lions qualified I cannot see that it would actually achieve what we want it to and close the gap between the teams.
I think whatever we do, there is a risk that the top sides get stronger, I do not think we can really do much about this, as I am not going for different rules dependant on where you are in the league, as I don't think that is fair on people who have done well with their teams and got themselves up the table.
My view is that we go with still 10 EQ in the matchday squad, but you only need 4 in the starting line up.
Thoughts?
Ozzy3213- Moderator
- Posts : 18500
Join date : 2011-01-29
Age : 48
Location : Sandhurst
Re: Ideas for next season
Happy with that.
Steven_Sharks- Posts : 7528
Join date : 2011-04-19
Location : Chester/Manchester
Re: Ideas for next season
Fine. Hope it helps teams lower down out.
LukeLovesLuka- Posts : 5865
Join date : 2011-04-19
Age : 40
Location : London
Re: Ideas for next season
Happy with that
prop_lyd- Posts : 10387
Join date : 2011-01-28
Age : 36
Location : Rogerstone, Wales
Re: Ideas for next season
4 starters would help, could we not also reduce it to 9 in squad? otherwise 6 out of 8 subs have to be EQ.
stnick88- Posts : 5345
Join date : 2011-05-10
Re: Ideas for next season
I don't mind whether it's 4 or 5 starters, it just needs to be the same for everyone.
DHLS07- Posts : 337
Join date : 2012-07-15
Location : Various
Re: Ideas for next season
I'd maybe lower it to 8/9 in a squad same as Nick. Just moving the EQ problem to the bench. Should look at how to spread the EQ going forward as well as poor Pete has no academy!
SirJohnnyEnglish- Posts : 8536
Join date : 2011-05-10
Age : 36
Location : Limerick
Re: Ideas for next season
Will look at how to spread going forward, just want to clarify the EQ limits early, as I think the not knowing is stopping people from dealing.
Ozzy3213- Moderator
- Posts : 18500
Join date : 2011-01-29
Age : 48
Location : Sandhurst
Re: Ideas for next season
I would suggest 4 EQ starters and 4 bench. 8 altogether.
stnick88- Posts : 5345
Join date : 2011-05-10
Re: Ideas for next season
I'm loathe to drop the matchday squad number from 10, as I think that will just strengthen the top sides even more.
Matchday will stay at 10.
Starting XV will be lowered to 4.
I'm open to suggestions on the academy issue, as I'm not sure how it can be addressed really.
Matchday will stay at 10.
Starting XV will be lowered to 4.
I'm open to suggestions on the academy issue, as I'm not sure how it can be addressed really.
Ozzy3213- Moderator
- Posts : 18500
Join date : 2011-01-29
Age : 48
Location : Sandhurst
Re: Ideas for next season
I'd open up the academies. No more calling someone up from the academy. Have it so that you have to bid on them in nationals. Gives everyone a chance to pick up decent prospects.
SirJohnnyEnglish- Posts : 8536
Join date : 2011-05-10
Age : 36
Location : Limerick
Re: Ideas for next season
I'm not sure how that would work practice. Where do we stand on players already listed in teams academy squads?
Ozzy3213- Moderator
- Posts : 18500
Join date : 2011-01-29
Age : 48
Location : Sandhurst
Re: Ideas for next season
I'd take the academies as they are at the deadline you have set for sorting squads out. Anyone not included in the 20 man academy at that date is then open ground for national league bidding. Not a short term fix but the game isn't short term either.
Puts more emphasis on cash throughout the season then as well.
Puts more emphasis on cash throughout the season then as well.
SirJohnnyEnglish- Posts : 8536
Join date : 2011-05-10
Age : 36
Location : Limerick
Re: Ideas for next season
I will draw up a draft set of rules for next season based on the suggestions made here, then we can all see it and decide if it needs any tweaks.
Ozzy3213- Moderator
- Posts : 18500
Join date : 2011-01-29
Age : 48
Location : Sandhurst
Re: Ideas for next season
Right, here is my first draft of the rules for next season. Any rule changes from this season I have put in italics...
Welcome to Season 6 of the Aviva Premiership fantasy rugby game. Below are the rules of the game which must be adhered to. If there are any situations that arise in the course of the game which are not covered by the rules, a final decision will be made by the RFU (Ozzy3213) as to how the situation will be resolved.
Let me know any tweaks that people think there need to be.
Welcome to Season 6 of the Aviva Premiership fantasy rugby game. Below are the rules of the game which must be adhered to. If there are any situations that arise in the course of the game which are not covered by the rules, a final decision will be made by the RFU (Ozzy3213) as to how the situation will be resolved.
Senior Squads wrote:
The maximum squad size is 40 senior players. If a team has more than 40 players in their squad then they will be fined £1 million per player over the permitted amounts per day for the first seven days. If after 7 consecutive days a team still has more than the permitted number of players then the team will be fined £2 million per player per day, and fined 1 league point per player per day for the next seven days. If after this time a team still has more than the permitted number of players in their squad, the RFU (me) will remove players at its discretion to bring them back under the permitted numbers. There will be no right of appeal to players being removed.
Be aware that all tier one international matches which are played during the season will count in the game, and players selected in the match day 23's for those matches will not be eligible to play for their clubs on that weekend, therefore you must give due consideration to the make-up of your squad.
Academy Rules wrote:
Each team will be allowed to have an academy squad of 20 players. Players who are in the academy must be born on or after 1st September 1991.
Any player, who is at any Premiership club in real life, either in their senior, academy or AASE squads, can be bid for on the domestic bidding page. Players who are at your own club in real life and are coming through the academy system must be bid for if you want them in your own academy.
Transfers wrote:
- Domestic (other AP Teams)
Each team has a budget to use in the purchase of players. Domestic transfers between AP clubs, regardless of nationality of player, should be negotiated between the respective managers, and then confirmed on the Domestic Transfer Confirmation Page.- Domestic (Championship and below)
Each team may during the season purchase no more than 5 players from the Championship or the National Leagues. These players must be bid for on the Domestic Transfer Bidding page, and each bid will be considered by me on its own merits before being accepted or rejected. No bid will be accepted until a minimum of 24 hours has elapsed from the time the bid was made, in order to afford other managers the opportunity to make a counter bid.- Foreign
To make a foreign transfer (i.e. from any club outside of the AP, regardless of whether the player is English) a bid should be made on the Foreign Transfers Page, which will be considered by me against the posted guidelines for purchase prices before being accepted or rejected. No bid will be accepted until a minimum of 24 hours has elapsed from the time the bid was made, in order to afford other managers the opportunity to make a counter bid.
There will be a summer foreign transfer window, which will run as follows.
Structured Window
No cash will be used and each team will get effectively free transfers by way of a draft, which will run 12th, 11th, 10th …… 1st, 12th, 11th,10th… 1st place side. This will run from 14th June 2013 until all teams have had their picks.
Open Window
Open transfer window, teams have unlimited bids provided they have the financial resources to cover them. Teams may only bid for one player at a time.
Prior to the foreign transfer windows opening, there will be a draft of released players for the 12th 11th and 10th placed teams. This will start on 2nd June 2013.
Player Releases wrote:
Managers may choose to release players from their clubs, for which they will be offered compensation
Compensation will be paid as follows
£2 million – current international (must have played international rugby in the previous 12 months)
£1.5 million – former international
£1m – top flight experience
£0.5m – other
All released players will be deemed to have joined a Championship side and can be bid for on the Domestic Transfer Bidding page.
Retirements wrote:
There will be no compensation for retiring players. Should a player who retires decide to come out of retirement and play again, then he will automatically go back to the club who he was playing for in the game when he retired.
Fixtures wrote:
There will be 22 Aviva Premiership games per season, plus the play offs. There will also be Heineken Cup, Amlin Challenge Cup and Anglo Welsh Cup matches. These games will take place once a week. A match thread will be put up every Monday. Home teams must be named by midnight on Tuesday. Away teams must be named by midnight on Wednesday. Both teams must provide tactics by midnight on Thursday. Predictions will be open from 00:01 hours on Friday and remain open until 20:00 hours on Saturday. Managers will post the scores that they think will happen from these games (apart from games in which they are involved). An average of all predictions will be taken, and then 0.5 points added to each teams score for each prediction that had them as the winner, and that will then be the final score.
Managers are asked to provide detail as to why they have predicted a result. To be considered a descriptive prediction this must be a full 3 lines long when entered into the text box. If you are not providing a descriptive prediction you will be restricted to predicting a 1 point win either way.
Teams wrote:
When naming your team, not only should you put the starting XV and replacements, but also tactics that your team will employ. Results will be affected by the tactics described.
In addition, each team must have the following:-
At least 10 England qualified players in your match day 23, and at least 4 of those must be in your starting XV.
At least 2 props and 1 hooker on the bench.
All players must be eligible (not injured or banned).
Failure to comply with these rules will result in forfeiting the match and a 1 league point deduction.
If you fail to submit a team for a match, then the other team will be automatically awarded a 30-0 bonus point win. If both teams fail to submit a team, then it will be scored as a 0-0 draw.
Injuries and Suspensions wrote:
Injuries in this game do NOT reflect real life, they will be generated by me.
Players banned in real life will be ineligible for selection in this game for the duration of the ban.
Inclusion of injured/banned players will result in them being replaced by players on the bench, and the bench not having eight players, which may result in punishment if it concerns the front-row.
Punishment for fielding an ineligible player will be loss of one match point for a first offence, two for a second offence and so on.
Financial Rewards wrote:
There will be no rewards for the result of an individual match, instead the managers will receive cash for predicting.
£1.5m for descriptive predictions
£0.25m for scores on the doors predictions
If you fail to predict without first advising me that you are unable to do so that week, you will be fined £1m for a first offence, £2m for a second offence, £3m for a third offence etc.
AP finishing positions.
Champions: 8m
Runners Up: 6m
Playoff Semi Finalist Losers: 5m
5th: 4m
6th: 3.5m
7th: 3m
8th: 2.5m
9th: 2m
10th: 1.5m
11th: 1m
12th: 0.5m
Heineken Cup
Losing Quarter Finalists - £2 million each
Losing Semi Finalists - £3 million each
Runners Up - £4 million
Champions - £5 million
Amlin Challenge Cup
Losing Quarter Finalists - £1 million each
Losing Semi Finalists - £2 million each
Runners Up - £3 million
Champions - £4 million
Anglo-Welsh Cup
Losing Semi Finalist - £1 million each
Runners Up - £2 million
Champions - £3 million
If your budgets falls below minus £10 million for any reason, the administrators (ozzy3213) will step in and players from within your squad will be released for the relevant financial compensation in order to bring your budget back above minus £10 million.
Let me know any tweaks that people think there need to be.
Ozzy3213- Moderator
- Posts : 18500
Join date : 2011-01-29
Age : 48
Location : Sandhurst
Re: Ideas for next season
Yes, as suggested by SJE to not disadvantage those managers with clubs with weaker or no academies.
Ozzy3213- Moderator
- Posts : 18500
Join date : 2011-01-29
Age : 48
Location : Sandhurst
Re: Ideas for next season
Good ruling that gives incentives for players to read up on academies
Guest- Guest
Re: Ideas for next season
Pleased with the times we have to announce teams.
LukeLovesLuka- Posts : 5865
Join date : 2011-04-19
Age : 40
Location : London
Re: Ideas for next season
Could the academies limit be upped to 25 with the new rule?
Steven_Sharks- Posts : 7528
Join date : 2011-04-19
Location : Chester/Manchester
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