England side for Saturday - According to the Telegraph

Interesting few changes according to the Telegraph and they are usually pretty accurate with their predictions. Always seen Lawes more as a six but an interesting time to do it. Thought putting an 8 in and moving Wood to 6 would have been the more obvious option. Injury to Billy V probably put paid to that but doesn't show a lot of faith in Waldrom.

Twelvetrees as the only cover for the back 4 also concerns me a bit. If he was that desperate to have him on the bench it probably should have been at the expense of a specialist 10.

Interesting.

England (probable): Goode, Ashton, Tuilagi, Barritt, Brown; Farrell, B Youngs; Marler, Hartley, Cole, Parling, Launchbury, Lawes, Robshaw, Wood. Replacements: T Youngs, M Vunipola, Wilson, Haskell, Waldrom, Care, Flood, Twelvetrees.

IF thats the team...

I have no issues with Lawes at 6...i understand its his favourite position...and he beings a physicality, immense defence and added lineout threat.
It does suggest they dont see Haskell as a starter anymore and merely an impact player.

The centres back to normal...i thought Twelvetrees has done very well..in two very different game types..so bit disapointing for him...and Marler would have held off Vunipolas challenge...

Will be interesting to see the actual team when its announced.

Reports of Haskell having flu which I would guess will limit his involvement. Don't want him having to play 80 mins with a virus like the AB's did do we..

As a Leicester supporter it pains me, but I'm just not sure about Tuilagi at this level really.

He's kind of a blunt instrument. He doesn't really engineer it so that he's taking the ball at pace. It seems like he relies on the opposition missing the first up tackle on him so that he can begin to build a head of steam up. If he does of course, he can be very effective, but the lack of finesse is a bit disappointing.

It is true that he does attract defenders onto him, which I suppose is a good thing, if the gaps can be exploited.

I'm OK with that team, except for Wood at 8. I think we need more beef at the back than Wood has. Against Ireland, he was game and did well apart from the scrum. He is athletic, quick and smart. Lawes at 6 might give a little more push to compensate. I also think at 6 he might end up as the leading tackler. If healthy, he can be a machine.

This line-up gives England how many line-out options????

Yeah the Haskell flu thing would explain the possible change, or the possible reason why they think that change may occur ( Lawes has been filling in for him at training)

Wood at 8 ...still not convinced. Infact with lawes there it would be a very makeshift backrow with non playing in the piositions they have for the majority of their careers. all fine players but is this "they can play anywhere" mentaility getting out of hand?


Tuilagi coming back in surpises me, but suggests they are worried about the attacking threat from Frances centers with Foffana likely back at 12. Or it may be that 36 just got the shirt last time because they were uncertain about Tuilagis 80 minute fitness.
A strong case could always be made for any combination of englands 3 centers,. Itll be interesting to see if Barritt back at 12 blunts the edge england had in attack in what should be far better conditions than the ireland game.

Has Lawes ever played at 8?

Nobbled, no that I can recall. Lawes has played 6 from time to time at Saints. Starting and also moving there as subs come on late. And has acquitted himself very well. Saints, however, prefer him in the second row since he is such a powerful presence there. And because they have very good choices at flanker.

With a little work I think he'd make a cracking 8. However, let's not get ahead of ourselves - he's primarily a lock, playingout of position.

Jimpy wrote:As a Leicester supporter it pains me, but I'm just not sure about Tuilagi at this level really.

He's kind of a blunt instrument. He doesn't really engineer it so that he's taking the ball at pace. It seems like he relies on the opposition missing the first up tackle on him so that he can begin to build a head of steam up. If he does of course, he can be very effective, but the lack of finesse is a bit disappointing.

It is true that he does attract defenders onto him, which I suppose is a good thing, if the gaps can be exploited.

Jimpy, yes I thought much the same, but Tui changed my mind a little in the AIs esp the AB game. He did all that blunt running sure enough, but also started to work in some some cunning offloads and 'back of the hand' passing. He set up the Barritt try with a neat well timed offload, having drawn the remaining ragged defence. This change made me wonder whether Catt had been speaking to him in training.

Wouldn't mind those 3 changes personally. Lawes could be a perfect 6, Hartley is simply a better hooker than Youngs at the moment, and Tuilagi is simply our best centre and has to start.

gregortree wrote:

Jimpy wrote:As a Leicester supporter it pains me, but I'm just not sure about Tuilagi at this level really.

He's kind of a blunt instrument. He doesn't really engineer it so that he's taking the ball at pace. It seems like he relies on the opposition missing the first up tackle on him so that he can begin to build a head of steam up. If he does of course, he can be very effective, but the lack of finesse is a bit disappointing.

It is true that he does attract defenders onto him, which I suppose is a good thing, if the gaps can be exploited.

Jimpy, yes I thought much the same, but Tui changed my mind a little in the AIs esp the AB game. He did all that blunt running sure enough, but also started to work in some some cunning offloads and 'back of the hand' passing. He set up the Barritt try with a neat well timed offload, having drawn the remaining ragged defence. This change made me wonder whether Catt had been speaking to him in training.

I know he was probably a bit rusty after returning from injury, but he missed a sitter at Quins that would have won the game for Tigers. Hmmmm, he just seems a bit erratic to me.

With the allegedly thousands of players at our disposal you’d think we could find a no 8 that’s a no 8, a blindside that’s a blindside, and a winger that’s a winger. Especially in such a technical and pivotal position as no 8 – look at the outstanding players that play there at test level. I’m not a supporter of the universal-rugby-player approach. At least he’s picked a hooker at hooker. Just as long as he doesn’t put Tom Youngs at wing, and 12T at prop.

Tuilagi also set up Ashtons try with the bruising run...and perfectly timed pass ...throwing a slight dummy/delay during execution...

It might be harsh on Barritt...who i am actually a fan of...but i'd like to see 12 Telvetrees
13 Tuilagi
at some stage this 6n.

With 36 there i dont believe we actually lose that much defensively..infact isnt he the leading centre in regards to turnovers etc. Or hes certainly up there...but he just potentially adds another dimension to Englands attack...something i dont believe Barritt (who has shown some improvement in recent weeks ) can offer.

I think its testament to the French that England have decided to recall 3 of their most physical players in Hartley, Lawes and Tuilagi.

The French at their best are monsters upfront and I expect Lancaster is forecasting an almighty battle.

Tuilagi for twelvetrees makes sense... Barritt is the defensive rock in the backline and you need him there as Tuilagi isn't as astute as Barritt.

ENG still have Goode to act as 2nd receiver so the loss of Twelvetrees in not so great. If he can shore up his defence to that of Barritts then ENG will have a very dangerous centre partnership on their hands.

GeordieFalcon wrote:Tuilagi also set up Ashtons try with the bruising run...and perfectly timed pass ...throwing a slight dummy/delay during execution...

It might be harsh on Barritt...who i am actually a fan of...but i'd like to see 12 Telvetrees
13 Tuilagi
at some stage this 6n.

With 36 there i dont believe we actually lose that much defensively..infact isnt he the leading centre in regards to turnovers etc. Or hes certainly up there...but he just potentially adds another dimension to Englands attack...something i dont believe Barritt (who has shown some improvement in recent weeks ) can offer.

+1

Especially in such a technical and pivotal position as no 8 –

Is it though?

Aside from the scrum..where good feet and a good reading of the game is required...what does an 8 do that a 6 or 7 doesnt...back rowers now must all do the same jobs...
Run with the ball
Catch in the lineout
Tackle tackle tackle
Hit the breakdown
Be a linkman
etc

Infact id go so far as to say that the back row along with the wing three quarters are the one positions in a team that are almost the same now as the game moves on...

Duty281 wrote:Wouldn't mind those 3 changes personally. Lawes could be a perfect 6, Hartley is simply a better hooker than Youngs at the moment, and Tuilagi is simply our best centre and has to start.

It strikes me they've brought Hartley back as much for his scrummaging as his throwing. Fair enough given France's scrum, but we'll lose A LOT at the breakdown without Youngs. I think it's a mistake. We need to be blasting the French players off the ball not getting there late and arm-wrestling people like Picamoles and Dusatoir, I can't see us winning that battle.

fa0019 wrote:I think its testament to the French that England have decided to recall 3 of their most physical players in Hartley, Lawes and Tuilagi.

The French at their best are monsters upfront and I expect Lancaster is forecasting an almighty battle.

Tuilagi for twelvetrees makes sense... Barritt is the defensive rock in the backline and you need him there as Tuilagi isn't as astute as Barritt.

ENG still have Goode to act as 2nd receiver so the loss of Twelvetrees in not so great. If he can shore up his defence to that of Barritts then ENG will have a very dangerous centre partnership on their hands.

I think Tuilagi was always going to be favoured when fit (i agree with a previous poster that he's still a little one dimensional), Lawes seems to only be in because Haskell has the flu. On Hartley though, yeah, I agree, looks like they're going to try and give us a bit more bulk in the scrum.

I understand the reasoning but i think it's flawed. Our recent wins have been a result of better accuracy and speed at the breakdown not overwhelming physical fire-power. Wood, T Youngs, Robshaw and Launchbury aren't going through people, they're outlasting them and playing at a high-tempo. I think this approach is a promising development for England and should be built on.

GeordieFalcon wrote:

Especially in such a technical and pivotal position as no 8 –

Is it though?

Aside from the scrum..where good feet and a good reading of the game is required...what does an 8 do that a 6 or 7 doesnt...back rowers now must all do the same jobs...
Run with the ball
Catch in the lineout
Tackle tackle tackle
Hit the breakdown
Be a linkman
etc

Infact id go so far as to say that the back row along with the wing three quarters are the one positions in a team that are almost the same now as the game moves on...

Watch Parisse play. Or Dean Richards. They're always positioned to pick up loose ball. Even Morgan is showing that positional awareness. And poor control at the base of the scrum can mess up plenty of plays, or expose a team in defense. Just look at Haskell in his early MJ days at no 8. And when has Wood made the rollicking runs of Morgan or Heaslip.

I suppose it depends if you want a hooker who is stronger at the set piece or the one who is better at the breakdown and around the park.

Hartley should certainly strengthen our set piece which was actually very poor vs Ireland.

T.Youngs coming off the bench should add some more dynamism.

I think 36 is getting a lot of hype surrounding him. Sure he did have a very good game vs Scotland but he was pretty average vs Ireland (other than Ashton he was probably the weakest back on the day.

Let's get some perspective - he's only got 2 caps and already there are calls for him to replace one of either our most consistent centre or our most exciting centre.

36 will get his chance but I don't he's done enough yet to oust Barritt or Tuilagi.

Possibly 36-Tuilagi combo should be tried against Italy though.

But Wood is a different player...if we have Haskell at 6...then he has made many big carriers...

Look at Irelands lad...SOB makes huge carries...and Ferris...

Hood83 wrote:

Duty281 wrote:Wouldn't mind those 3 changes personally. Lawes could be a perfect 6, Hartley is simply a better hooker than Youngs at the moment, and Tuilagi is simply our best centre and has to start.

It strikes me they've brought Hartley back as much for his scrummaging as his throwing. Fair enough given France's scrum, but we'll lose A LOT at the breakdown without Youngs. I think it's a mistake. We need to be blasting the French players off the ball not getting there late and arm-wrestling people like Picamoles and Dusatoir, I can't see us winning that battle.

I honestly think you've missed a lot of what Hartley does, when he Youngs plays he carries all day long and tackles everything that moves, using his mobility to get around the park. Hartley is solid in the lineout and does A LOT of ruck work, in fact, i'd go so far as to say that on defence and attack his main job is attacking rucks. Admittedly he's not as dynamic as youngs but he is way more solid in the setpiece (which will be key against the French) and his ruck work is very good, Youngs also makes a very good impact sub.

Not a fan of no lock sub on the bench, moving a player from flanker (one of the most exhausting positions on a pitch if you do your job properly) to lock (also not a walk in the park, physically) is not the same as having a fresh player to come on. Drop Waldrum and bench an actual lock if we're going to play Lawes at 6

Just out of curiosity, what has happened to Croft? Is he injured orjust out of the running? I thought in the early part of his career he was going to turn into antoher Spies type player. Superb athlete but didn't stand out in a game. Then there was a good run of form and he started doing the work in tight and looked dangerous when he ran. So what happened?

Wood for my mind works best at 6 but then there seems to be players favoured above him there, Robshaw is the captain and can't be replaced at his equally comfortable position (well slightly less) and number 8 seems the worst position for the backrow. Have him as cover but not starting at 8 in my opinion. Lawes seems to be an experiment and I wonder whether this is the right game to experiment. Especially when you face one of the best 6s in world rugby in Dusatoir (even though he wears 7). Ryan Jones has shown it's possible to interchange 6 and lock and there have been others who have made the move. But Lawes to 8 sounds a bit like Chabal moving around and 8 was probably the least convincing he looked in his moves around the pack. I don't think the skills are that transferable between 6 and 8.

Croft suffered a serious neck injury last April against Harlequins. That kept him out of all rugby until last month. Even now his return to rugby has to be managed - so he plays one week then rests the next. He is still in SL's plans as he was retained in the England Performance Squad - but released to tigers for his rehab and Billy vunipola drafted in as a temporary replacement.

Sorry to hear that. Glad to hear he's coming back though, albeit little by little. With a neck injury you can't be too cautious. Is Morgan injured as well or is he no longer flavour of the month?

Morgan ankle injury vs Scotland - hopefully due back vs Italy. Sounds like Bully Vunipola would have made the bench for the weekend only he did his ankle in training.

Croft did his neck trying to tackle Nick Easter with his head. Taking a long term view he was very lucky. I think he is a terrific player and really hope he gets back in the mix, just when he is ready.

Morgans a shorter term injury, expected to be back for Italy.

Glad to hear it. It wasn't so long ago that England had a crisis at centre but positions across the park seem to have depth now with Lancaster so that is very encouraging. The problem SL now faces is does he think these players all need some match time and will the dreaded rotation word come in or will he continue to put out his best squad and further cement positions? It's a good position to be in but sometimes it's hard for players who don't get a look in if you don't rotate players and sometimes combinations can be lost if you spread the players round or mix them up too much. A welcome dilemma but a dilemma nonetheless.

Its a squad of 23 plus some fringe players so there are always going to be opportunities and subs performances. Personally I hope SL will be hard edged about these things. Replacing good players with better ones is always healthy.

Kia

Most England fans are quite optimistic about the short to mid term future - for the first time in a long time we have a team where we would all pick about 12 of the first choice XV and largely the same bench. Other than Parling (who's 29), iirc our first choices are all 26 or younger. Oh, and we've been winning games like a much more experienced side (iirc, our starting XV against Ireland had fewer caps than BOD and ROG combined).

Probably the biggest areas of discussion are over the centre pairing and the back 3 - I think most of us would like to see the attacking potential of 12trees and Tuillagi playing together, but don't really want to lose Barritt's solidity and leadership in defence. Similarly, I would like more outright pace from the back 3 than Goode, Brown and Ashton offer - Ashton's genuinely quick, but Brown isn't really winger pace (much improved though he is) and Goode lacks a bit of foot speed. My solution, if fit and on form (which is not the case at the moment) would be for Brown to revert to full back and bring Foden back on the wing (so continuing SLs preferred option of playing 2 full backs). Just needs Foden to regain some form after his injury lay-off.

As for the extended squad, we seem to have adequately good cover for most positions with the possible exceptions of tighthead and arguably 8. There are solid tightheads coming through, but are very young so Wilson is still in the squad as the best available back-up at the moment - hopefully the summer tour will give someone else a chance to get some experience as Cole should be with the Lions.
8 - I think it's obvious that Lancaster doesn't really rate Waldrom and that he doesn't see Haskell as an 8, otherwise why go for the option of playing Wood out of position? Crane has probably missed his chance now (untimely injuries having hindered his progress and allowed others ahead in the pecking order), and probably lacks a yard of pace to fulfil the role that Morgan does in terms of open field running.

You are right to an extent about the need to rotate players, but we are in the advantageous position this summer of having a tour to Argentina where we will inevitably be missing about half the first choice team because of the Lions - should give an opportunity to a few of the younger players to get some quality game time and test themselves against a decent opposition.

Great summary dummy.

Its also wroth pointing out that Englands EPS is 64 (well 65 currently) players, and that the although the Saxons do play some games are much more closely integrated now with the senior 32/3 than previously. Lancaster directly controls them.

So yes england have a pretty settled matchday 23. Theres a few players within the next 9/10 who drop in and out of that. After that theres a big pool of players who are being groomed as replacements or available as cover.

Many of those will play in the Summer tour.

England have been lucky to avoid too many injuries, certainly the numbers previous regimes (and Wales recently) had to cope with. This makes the task of building a team, and settling a 23 far far easier.

If this rumoured side does play it shows a lot of changes, far more than youd expect from a side thats won its last 3. I dont think we can say that players havent been rotated or given a chance. If anything lancaster has been quick to change in some cases and maybe guilty of some flip flopping ( Youngs/Care Flood/Farrell Hartley/Youngs ...who exactly is first choice?) The side is fluid within the core group.

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:The side is fluid within the core group.

For me that is exactly how it should be. Players know that once you are in the core group if you perform you will stay in that group and get your chance, but nobody starts to feel to cosy about their starting shirt as they know that Lancaster is happy to swap and change within the group. It emans you have stability and remain competitive with everyone busting a gut to play.

I am really keen to see how we go at the weekend against what will undoubtedly be a very fired up French side. Barritt and Tuilagi being reunited in midfield is 100% the right decision in my book, as is Hartley staring over Youngs. Lawes at 6 could prove a good option, although I am less convinced by this one. I think it is a move made out of necessity rather than choice, with Wood having to play at 8. Had Billy V not turned an ankle I suspect that he may have got a start here, with Wood at 6 and Lawes on the bench.

I don't think Lancaster has been guilty of flip-flopping. The pattern he follows seems to be: if a player gets a chance and takes it, then the shirt is theirs until they give an indication that they might not be the best person for the next challenge.

Hartley/Youngs is a good example. Youngs did really well (much better than I expected) in his first starts, and has been allowed to keep the jersey even with Hartley fit and in form. However, against a really gnarly pack in Dublin he looked a little off the pace in both throwing and hooking, and Hartley made a good impact as a sub. The French have, if anything, an even more effective pack, so Hartley gets the starting berth (and I'd expect him to keep it until he gets injured or makes a mistake).

Same with Care and Youngs. Youngs has done the job well, despite Care being in stunning form. He keeps the shirt.

By the way, a couple more specialist things that a No 8 does that are different from a flanker:
- Quite often, the No 8 triggers the engage at the scrum (because everyone else can feel his move)
- The No 8 also drops back in defence earlier than other forwards, and will sometimes be alongside the full back fielding a kick
- Generally, the No 8 will be moving away from the set piece slightly later than the flankers and therefore needs to think more carefully about his positioning rather than just chase the action. Deano was the past master at this and would frequently head away from the action only to be exactly where the ball ended up. Which said, the current crop of England back rows are all very good at this (a huge relief after the era of Croft and others being stood like lemons in midfield while England lost another breakdown)

Poorfour wrote:- Generally, the No 8 will be moving away from the set piece slightly later than the flankers and therefore needs to think more carefully about his positioning rather than just chase the action. Deano was the past master at this and would frequently head away from the action only to be exactly where the ball ended up. Which said, the current crop of England back rows are all very good at this (a huge relief after the era of Croft and others being stood like lemons in midfield while England lost another breakdown)

Good point. I saw Deano at Murrayfield in the early '90s when on that day, he seemed to be a ball magnet. The English contingent were moved to start chanting 'Deano, Deano' every time he got the ball, which was often. He once caught the high ball alongside the FB (Dr Webb I think) and instead of passing to a kicker, took an almighty clearance kick himself to a massive English cheer.

As a footnote to my earlier post, I have serious doubts that Lawes will start at 6 - suspect the DT journalist saw him filling in their while Haskell was too ill to train, and had jumped to the wrong conclusion.

If Haskell really had flu (rather than a cold), there's no way he'd have been retained in the match day 23, and if he's in the squad he should be fit enough to start.

As for poorfour's comments regarding the role of an 8, I noticed that against Ireland it was often Robshaw that had dropped deep to field the kicks (then again I think there was more than one of him on the pitch...).

Of course Dean Richards had to be good at reading the game - he had all the pace and acceleration of a tectonic plate. Of course his 'get out of offside free*' card also helped him be a very effective player.

* Now in the possession of Richie McCheat, having passed through the hands of Neil Back...

dummy_half wrote:I noticed that against Ireland it was often Robshaw that had dropped deep to field the kicks (then again I think there was more than one of him on the pitch...).

Of course Dean Richards had to be good at reading the game - he had all the pace and acceleration of a tectonic plate. Of course his 'get out of offside free*' card also helped him be a very effective player.

* Now in the possession of Richie McCheat, having passed through the hands of Neil Back...

Dedicated Robshaw-watchers regularly spot several of him on the pitch at the same time, though they are frequently invisible to other fans (and, on very good days, the referee). But I don't think it's a coincidence that he emerged into the Quins 1st XV during Deano's reign as DoR.

Poorfour wrote:By the way, a couple more specialist things that a No 8 does that are different from a flanker:
- Quite often, the No 8 triggers the engage at the scrum (because everyone else can feel his move)
- The No 8 also drops back in defence earlier than other forwards, and will sometimes be alongside the full back fielding a kick
- Generally, the No 8 will be moving away from the set piece slightly later than the flankers and therefore needs to think more carefully about his positioning rather than just chase the action. Deano was the past master at this and would frequently head away from the action only to be exactly where the ball ended up. Which said, the current crop of England back rows are all very good at this (a huge relief after the era of Croft and others being stood like lemons in midfield while England lost another breakdown)

Good summary, although it seems to be any of the back row that drop back alongside the fullback in recent times. Like dummy-half I also noticed against Ireland that Robshaw (or one of his many clones ) seemed to be one to do this, which made sense to me although he was probably the slowest of the 3 back row players who started. Happier to have someone do it who has a cool head under pressure than maybe a Haskall who would just put his head down and run, potentially getting isolated etc.

My concerns with Wood at 8 are the early engagement at the scrum caused by Wood going early (can't remember this happening too much when he switched against Scotland or against the Irish) and his positioning. Generally Wood likes to be (and is most effective) in the middle of the breakdown so not sure he can adjust his game accordingly. I'm not 100% sure but I think I read he played most of his age grade rugby for England at 8 mind so maybe I'm doing his a dis-service.

Happy to see Lawes at 6 if that is the case (that utterly reliable super accurate publication the Daily Fail is also reporting the same team as the Telegraph). Needs to keep a coll head but personally have always thought it suits his skill-set best. My guess is he will be charged with stopping Picomoles from getting on the front foot as much as possible. If the French start with Nyanga, Dusitour & Picomoles then that is a very handy back row he will be up against.

Robshaw was fielding some clearance kicks in the AIs as well. I remember one in particular against NZ where he passed it infield to Ashton and then received a hospital pass in return almost immediately.

As awful as the Telegraph's rugby writing (Moore and Greenwood aside) and the Daily Mail as a whole are, they do seem to have an inside track on England team selections. That said, the photo on the Telegraph article shows Tuilagi running at Haskell and Youngs - both wearing bibs - so it's not implausible that they've just worked out the three changes from watching a training session.

lostinwales wrote:Morgan ankle injury vs Scotland - hopefully due back vs Italy. Sounds like Bully Vunipola would have made the bench for the weekend only he did his ankle in training.

Croft did his neck trying to tackle Nick Easter with his head. Taking a long term view he was very lucky. I think he is a terrific player and really hope he gets back in the mix, just when he is ready.

he was very lucky indeed, very close to being paralysed.

Bizarre to think that in the couple of days after the incident the Leicester camp were talking about the stretcher being precautionary, and how they were confident he'd be back soon.

Makes a change from whinging about the referee

thomh wrote:Bizarre to think that in the couple of days after the incident the Leicester camp were talking about the stretcher being precautionary, and how they were confident he'd be back soon.

Well with potential neck injuries the stretcher is always precautionary, I think the back soon message is just a standard press message.

thomh wrote:Robshaw was fielding some clearance kicks in the AIs as well. I remember one in particular against NZ where he passed it infield to Ashton and then received a hospital pass in return almost immediately.

Just because Robshaw has a bit of something between his ears it doesn't unfortunately guarantee that those around him will have as well (and I'm a Ashton fan!).

B91212 wrote:

thomh wrote:Robshaw was fielding some clearance kicks in the AIs as well. I remember one in particular against NZ where he passed it infield to Ashton and then received a hospital pass in return almost immediately.

Just because Robshaw has a bit of something between his ears it doesn't unfortunately guarantee that those around him will have as well (and I'm a Ashton fan!).

Cmon be fair to Ashton, Captain Decisive Robshaw had probably said "Can i change my mind?" after passing to him

nathan wrote:

thomh wrote:Bizarre to think that in the couple of days after the incident the Leicester camp were talking about the stretcher being precautionary, and how they were confident he'd be back soon.

Well with potential neck injuries the stretcher is always precautionary, I think the back soon message is just a standard press message.

I think for a while the "be back soon" message was genuine - I covered the game for Come All Within and Cockers' view in the press room was (as verbatim as I can remember) "He just got his head the wrong side. His neck's a bit stiff but he'll be OK in a couple of days - he's a bit embarrassed about it really and will get some stick in training on Monday".

And then a few weeks later at the final I bumped into him (TC not RC) in the car park wearing a very serious looking neck brace.

I would be quite surprised if that is the team. Be interesting if it is though. The Haskell having flu theory makes a lot of sense to his demotion.

Tuilagi in to counter Bastereaux with like for like force. Barrit the defence general to keep a very close eye on the dangerous Fofana. Makes Sense.

Hartley to beef up the front row also makes sense against the French.

Always think Haskell plays his best off the bench so ok with that. Lawes at 6? well let's see, SL does seem to know what heis doing. Shame about Billy V.