back row for the lions

First topic message reminder :

Is it just me or does the back row selection for the lions the hardest postions to pick, even with the injured players.

Robshaw
Sean O'Brian
Sam Warburton
Tipric
Tom wood
Steven Ferris
Kelly brown
Jonnie Beattie
toby faletau
Dan lydiate
Jamie heaslip

Any others I have missed and add your opinions for and you they should be picked and shouldn't

Easter (and Croft for that matter) are players who could be absolutely superb if the style of play Gatland wants fits their particular qualities.

Croft is great if the other two in your back row (and your other forwards) can get through enough dirty work that he can roam the wide open spaces a bit. That would require quite a specific sort of pack - maybe Healy, Youngs, Cole in the front row, Launchbury as the enforcer and Robshaw plus a versatile 8.

Likewise Easter. In an odd sort of way, he's like a 16-stone scrum half (NOT Mike Phillips) - isn't going to punch through a solid defence like Morgan or Faletau might, but if there's a hint of a gap or broken play he'll make the most of it, and will probably get the offload away to keep the move going. That would mean having a blindside who could do the primary carrying duties - SOB, perhaps?

Either would be a bold pick at this stage, and would suggest a very specific game plan in mind.

gleesonisgod wrote:Robshaw and SOB have been the clear outstanding backrowers of the past few months end of.

If either one of Ferris or Lydiate return and get picked for the Lions I would have one of them to start aswell.

Nobody else has put their hand up to the extent that the top 2 have but Wood, Faletau, Jones, Brown, Tuperic, Morgan, are all looking good.

Wood's put his hand up to the extent of being MOTM against the All Blacks and few would have argued if he'd picked up either of Robshaw's MOTM's in the 6N. They are a seriously good combination, especially given Wood has been out of position for two games.

Robshaw and SOB have been the clear outstanding backrowers of the past few months end of.

Robshaw yes, but what has SOB actually done except fail to link up or fall over when through and give away stupid penalties...

SOB is getting too much praise on here - Has flattered to deceive in 3 games so far IMO

Poorfour wrote:
welshboii15's point about club form has some merit. It would be interesting to know what posters think their players' club form is like. I can only really comment on Robshaw, whose club form is monotonously excellent. Quins are invariably a better side with him on the pitch. Barring injury, he will travel.

What's odd is that Luke Wallace usually plays very well in Robshaw's absence, but Quins just seem to lack a huge amount of physicality and direction without him. The end of the game against Wasps was a good example. Quins were in their half and just needed to go through the phases to hopefully force a penalty, but there was no one stepping up to make the simple but difficult carries to get it going. We ended up going 20m backwards by aimlessly strolling about with the ball and then losing it.

I've made the point before but I really think the idea of a one man mission to nullify Pocock is a bit of a myth. Look at the way England have approached the breakdown recently. Robshaw has been a big part of it, but so have Wood, Launchbury, Cole, Youngs, Tuilagi etc. It's never a one man job.

The current England model at the breakdown is to have 13 men who are willing to commit to securing or slowing the ball, plus a scrum half, plus Chris Ashton.

This was what they adopted after losing out to the Aussies at the breakdown in the autumn. Seems to work, mostly, but for Australia I possibly would replace Ashton with someone else who will commit.

Easter? No chance - too slow.

Ironically, Easter is having a great season at Quins. He won't ever feature for England again, or at least as long as Lancaster is in charge. The only way he gets back in Twickenham is in the uniform of someone selling beer.

But he would be a rock at number 8 and would lock down the scrum. Won't happen, however.

Easter to my mind is one of those players who looks great in the club game but ordinary in internationals.

Like Ben Morgan you mean?

Glas a du wrote:Like Ben Morgan you mean?

A few around

I think Nick will definately feature in April

Glas a du wrote:O Brien has played himself out of contention in my view. The 'Maori side step' on Halfpenny in the Wales match, the ridiculous penalty against Scotland when he'd lost his scrum cap and was lucky not to be carded. The yards he makes can be nullified with good tackling technique as he's top heavy. He has little football and for a big guy you'd think he could terrorise rucks and mauls more than he does.

The first two examples are fair enough, but I really have to wonder what you have been watching with the other comments. I think he has beaten more defenders and made more metres than nearly every back rower in the tournament. A whole lot more than any 7 has too, and he is probably not playing his best position. The irish back row is pretty weak as a whole, and at times he has literally just ran into a brick wall defence of about 3 players and got isolated but unfortunately that is more telling of how weak the irish attack is. However I especially don't understand how you can criticise his abilities in the rucks or mauls. He hits them like a train.

What is it that he is doing wrong may I ask? Or rather what is he doing more wrong than anyone else? Robshaw is the flanker of the tournament for me so far, as is Brown (who hasn't been mentioned enough) but apart from those two, who else has been better? Both are playing in a better back row too.

http://www.thisisleicestershire.co.uk/steam-ahead-Tom-Croft-given-clean-health/story-18265629-detail/story.html#axzz2M5XSP766

Only 3 months to go but you never know, he has the ability to bring something completely different to the squad and has already performed brilliantly at this level

killer938 wrote:http://www.thisisleicestershire.co.uk/steam-ahead-Tom-Croft-given-clean-health/story-18265629-detail/story.html#axzz2M5XSP766

Only 3 months to go but you never know, he has the ability to bring something completely different to the squad and has already performed brilliantly at this level

Good news for Croft and England, but I think this Lions tour will come a bit too soon for him - it's not so much a case of being fit (which can be worked on in the gym) but of regaining the match sharpness that leads to top form. As a rule of thumb, I reckon for every month you are out you need a week playing just to work on getting back into the speed and intensity of the game.

I think Leicester have done the right thing in giving Croft a game every other week for the last few, just to ease him back in and to let him gain confidence that the neck injury is fully sorted.

The other point is that the Lions are definitely not short of options at blindside even without risking Croft.

Yeh, I know, it is more out of hope than anything because I am a huge fan of what he bring to the team but I realise that there is little to no chance of it actually happening.

The good news is he played well against Saracens, definitely seemed to look sharper, especially with ball in hand which is great news for Tigers with the end of the season coming up.

If he isn't good enough to get picked for England, despite coming back from injury, why is he even being mentioned here. Brown, Jones and Wood are all playing much better.

A bit left field but this would be my back row:

6. SO'B
7. Justin Tipuric
8. Chris Robshaw

SOB provides so much go forward in the loose and even though he is currently playing 7, 6 or 8 is his best position. At six he could steam roll Cooper or Barnes or who ever is playing at 10. If Ferris was fit though he would be my choice here.

Robshaw is currently playing 7 but he is probably a better 8 and playing too well right now to leave out. He is a good all rounder and has obvious leadership qualities. Doing a great job with England right now.

Tipuric is an excellent 7 and would add a nice balance to the backrow. He is a nuisance in the ruck and while the Lions front row who will likely be made up of Cole, Best and Healy who are all expert breakdown operators I just feel a guy like Tipuric may be needed to slow down or steal Aussie ball and neutralise their backs.

IMO, and picking only from those that have played in the 6N's so far the obvious Lions backrow would be Wood, Robshaw and Heaslip. Beattie, R Jones, Tipuric and Faletau have played well at times and Haskell did well as an impact. O'Brien has not had a good tournament so far. It will be interesting to see how well Lydiate does when he returns, but I'd be happy with Wood, Robshaw and Heaslip on their current form.

100%beefy wrote:Don't forget Gtaland knows Sam and Dan better than the other players...if Lydiate is fit he will travel...best 6 since Richard Hill

I don't even know where to begin with how inaccurate this statement is.......

A while ago I would have said Heaslip, Lydiate and Warburton would be the backrow.
However now, it would be hard to make a case for any of them in many ways.

I agree with some of the posters above that it isnt about selecting 1 player t nulify Pocock, you can't man mark in rugby. What is needed is a commited team who will challenge at the ruck area for the full 80 minutes as part of the game plan.

At the moment in my mind the front runners are Robshaw, Wood, Brown, Beattie and Jones. Better performances from other 7's and 8's is needed. (Brown is a 6 I think).

Personally I don't feel any of the other players have really stood out at all (except in terms of mistakes). Of course the Lions is a one off series, so potential has nothing to do with it, the squad will be one to do a job in Australia.

6. Wood
7. Robshaw
8. Faletau

Bench: O'Brien

That'd be my starting backrow for the Lions at current.

A while ago it would have been something like:

6. Ferris
7. Warburton
8. Denton

Shows how things change quite considerably. It's the peaks and troughs of form.

Denton I think is trying too hard, and Beattie is playing really well for Scotland at the moment. We have only really seen him rampaging around in open field a couple of times this 6N which is a bit disapointing but he has been tackling well and making a lot of the tighter carries.

It would be nice to see him as 1st reciver from quick balls at the rucks though.

Faletau has been excellent though and he offers soemthing differant from the 8s that seem to relish the contact (Beattie, Haskell & SOB) by being probably a wee bit quicker and a lot more elusive.

Yeh, Denton's disappointed me a little since his return. But he's still so young.

Beattie is such a devastating 8 when he's on the front foot. I love his style of play. He's pushing Faletau hard. I think he could really flourish with two grafters on the flanks like Wood and Robshaw, but I reckon he needs a big last 2 games to oust Faletau for now.