Bizzare Six Nations! Scotland v Wales 2013 biggest game for 20 years

This has to be the best, most exciting, most bizzare opening 3 rounds of the Six Nations ever. For a neutral fan anyway!

As a Welsh fan I feel sick as a pig at the downright embarrassing disgusting first 40 minutes against Ireland. Dan Biggar's chargedown set in motion a ridiculous chain of events and a scoreline that was too heavy to fight back from.

Wales must be a good side with real potential as they didn't exactly play great rugby, but have managed 3 tries against Ireland and two wins away in France and Italy.

I wanted Scotland to win today, because pandoras box has well and truly been opened and any team (except France) could win the championship with just 6 points!

The horrible thing for me now is that Scotland will be absolutely buzzing and this will be the most difficult match for Wales v the Scots in a generation. Since the mauling by England the Scottish defence has improved dramatically. I am really worried that they will string some tries together against Wales. On the other hand it could be an entire penalty affair like in 2007.

Wales are architects of their own doom. They currently have a back 3 that are arguably some of the best finishers in NH rugby but they have a scrum half who is slow and kicks ball away, but also other players are kicking possession away. George North hardly saw the ball yesterday. What happened to old school passing all the way through the backs to the wings???


This is how I see the table finishing:

England: 5 wins or 4 wins
Wales: 4 wins or even 3 wins
Scotland: 2 wins
France: 2 wins
Ireland: 2 wins
Italy: 1 win

Wales v England too close to call. England are fantastic, but if Wales beat Scotland then home advantage and momentum counts, especially when it's to deny England slam.

Wales to beat Scotland
France to hammer Scotland
France to beat Ireland
Ireland to beat Italy
England to destroy Italy

Being half Scottish half Welsh I usually dread these games and more I am even more. I don't want either to lose got different reasons. Scotland really need to keep the momentum up as it had been so long side we've had any success. Wales need to keep the momentum for a potential championship match against England.

God I love the six nations

Furthermore, I think Wales will win

t1000advancedprototype wrote:they have not scored a try since BOD's close range score after 45 mins in the game v Wales. Since that Ireland have been clueless

Good article, but I'd remove this part because... it isn't true.

As a Welsh supporter I don't trust our coaches/team selection, taking off the Wales captain playing 6 for Warburton who is not a 6 makes me think the next game Warburton will start at 6 and Jones will be back on the bench. R Jones who was most pundits MOTM against France and was the top tackler against Italy despite being taken off 15 mins from the end! Also, R Jones captained Wales to two away game victories and did not play in the disaster against Ireland, Sam was captain for that one.

If Sam starts instead of Jones against Scotland I suspect Wales will lose again. Wales back row was very good in the last two games, the back row tackle count against Italy was very impressive, also it was noteable that Wales were pushed back in the first scrum and penalised when Jones went off.

I think Coombes has done a great job but I think AW Jones will start the next game which could mean Coombes may be not even on the bench if R Jones moves to the bench as R Jones covers all the back 5 with two 7's on the pitch.

I believe Wales should only make one change AW Jones with Coombes on the bench as he covers back row and second row, Warburton at 6 is daft with two big packs to face in the next two games, I suspect Gatland may have something to do with this for Sam to go with the Lions. I may be wrong but there is a history of this management not picking on form/best players.

after Scotland's performance today I can't see them getting away with it for a third time. They need to choke Wales to win.

I'm going to say Wales by 10 points. Although if Scotland can pull another victory from their backside that'd be very welcome!

I can see Wales playing a very powerful pack with Paul James in for Gethin and AWJ for Coombs - Gethin had a great game but James is a more solid scrummager and we need the platform - Geth on around 50 mins depending on what's happening

I think that Wales will win it but again I reckon it'll be a very tight game. That said I also think the Scots have it in them to squeeze past the Welsh as they did the Irish. It will be interesting to say the least!

As a neutral observer I think it is just great seeing the wins being spread around.

It makes for interesting viewing and permutations.

I went for a Scotland win.

Simply based on todays game. Never expected Scotland to beat Ireland.

If they ply the same pressure against Wales as they did against Ireland. Then i see a Scotland win.

You went for Italy v Wales Maj so that's a good omen mate. Our players are gradually getting back, now if we can only have our coach back

With two games each to go you could have at the end of the season potentially a case a points difference title. IF England lose one and
Wales or Scotland win there last two.

majesticimperialman wrote:I went for a Scotland win.

Simply based on todays game. Never expected Scotland to beat Ireland.

If they ply the same pressure against Wales as they did against Ireland. Then i see a Scotland win.

Scotland will have to both defend better in the centres and score a try or two. Both things they are well capable of doing. I would still have scotland as slight underdogs I think

I'm not sure it's been that unusual a 6 Nations apart from France's abject performances in the first two games.

Maybe you're right.

What's unusual is that 3 games in, 5 teams could still win it!

Strange that Wales have 3 consecutive away games and Scotland have 3 consecutive home games.

I wonder if Scotland will use a proper 7 at some point and play their captain in his best position.

It would be fun if last game in Paris, Scotland need to beat France by say 24 points to win the title

I think Wales will tear Scotland apart.

Firstly the Welsh players will not fear Scotland at all. Scotland have beaten Wales just once in the last 10 years. Wales game plan is ideally suited to defeating Scotlands.

Secondly Wales will know all about Scott Johnsons coaching style and what he will want to do. Ireland already have figured out how to stop Scotland playing it was just a freak result that stopped them from winning the game.

Fairs, fair Scotland caught Italy cold, Italy didn't see Scotlands fast paced style, but in truth the England game was a far more realistic assesment of Scotlands skill and power. Ireland should of beaten them by a similar score, but without Sexton didn't have the control to score the points.

Wales simply have too much skill, speed and power for Scotland over the course of 80 minutes, if Scotland can do what Ireland did against Wales early on and catch us cold then it's their best chance of a win but if Wales start well I expect them to win by 10-15 points.

Shifty wrote:I think Wales will tear Scotland apart.

Firstly the Welsh players will not fear Scotland at all. Scotland have beaten Wales just once in the last 10 years. Wales game plan is ideally suited to defeating Scotlands....

That's an interesting take on it. Wales crumpled under the physical onslaught of the Irish and conceded a ton of points, but the Scots held out long enough to start clawing their way back.

Wales could do damage in midfield and out wide, but we haven't played that way in years.

Will kick/chase/defend be enough in Murrayfield? Or do Wales need to modify the gameplan slightly?

Casartelli wrote:

Shifty wrote:I think Wales will tear Scotland apart.

Firstly the Welsh players will not fear Scotland at all. Scotland have beaten Wales just once in the last 10 years. Wales game plan is ideally suited to defeating Scotlands....

That's an interesting take on it. Wales crumpled under the physical onslaught of the Irish and conceded a ton of points, but the Scots held out long enough to start clawing their way back.

Wales could do damage in midfield and out wide, but we haven't played that way in years.

Will kick/chase/defend be enough in Murrayfield? Or do Wales need to modify the gameplan slightly?

What does the term "out wide" mean? I am unfamiliar with this.

Shifty wrote:I think Wales will tear Scotland apart.

Firstly the Welsh players will not fear Scotland at all. Scotland have beaten Wales just once in the last 10 years. Wales game plan is ideally suited to defeating Scotlands.

Secondly Wales will know all about Scott Johnsons coaching style and what he will want to do. Ireland already have figured out how to stop Scotland playing it was just a freak result that stopped them from winning the game.

Fairs, fair Scotland caught Italy cold, Italy didn't see Scotland’s fast paced style, but in truth the England game was a far more realistic assessment of Scotland’s skill and power. Ireland should of beaten them by a similar score, but without Sexton didn't have the control to score the points.

Wales simply have too much skill, speed and power for Scotland over the course of 80 minutes, if Scotland can do what Ireland did against Wales early on and catch us cold then it's their best chance of a win but if Wales start well I expect them to win by 10-15 points.

Straight off the bat

Not sure if this is a WUM or you just don’t watch much rugby.

Let’s start from the top:

“I think Wales will tear Scotland apart”.

What are you basing that on? The fact that Ireland tore Wales apart in the 6N opener and was repelled by the excellent Scottish defence at Murrayfield? Good start man.

“Scotland have beaten Wales just once in the last 10 years. Wales game plan is ideally suited to defeating Scotlands.”

Can’t argue with the facts in this comment, it’s true Scotland have struggled with Wales in their last encounters. However this Scotland team is a different animal. Players like Hogg, Visser and Maitland are coming to the fore and giving us credible attacking threats in the backs unlike our last encounters. The Scotland of this years 6N are nothing like the Scotland from last years or the last 10 years. No Southwells, No Parks, no Morrison, no DeLuca, no Danielli, No Walker… gone are the blunt instruments to be replaced by players with guile, flair and pace to back up our rightly feared pack.

“Secondly Wales will know all about Scott Johnsons coaching style and what he will want to do. “

That sword cuts both ways. Johnson will know a lot of the Welsh players and how they play the game.

“Scotland caught Italy cold”

Despite Italy beating France the week before?

“Wales simply have too much skill, speed and power for Scotland”

What part of the game are you talking about? The forwards? The backs? Or what? I certainly don’t see a mismatch in speed, power or skill anywhere across the park.

I reckon this game will be close, very close and tbh I wouldn’t want to call it just yet. There is litteraly nothing between these 2 teams.

Casartelli wrote:

Shifty wrote:I think Wales will tear Scotland apart.

Firstly the Welsh players will not fear Scotland at all. Scotland have beaten Wales just once in the last 10 years. Wales game plan is ideally suited to defeating Scotlands....

That's an interesting take on it.

That must have taken some self-restraint!

t1000advancedprototype wrote:

Casartelli wrote:

Shifty wrote:I think Wales will tear Scotland apart.

Firstly the Welsh players will not fear Scotland at all. Scotland have beaten Wales just once in the last 10 years. Wales game plan is ideally suited to defeating Scotlands....

That's an interesting take on it. Wales crumpled under the physical onslaught of the Irish and conceded a ton of points, but the Scots held out long enough to start clawing their way back.

Wales could do damage in midfield and out wide, but we haven't played that way in years.

Will kick/chase/defend be enough in Murrayfield? Or do Wales need to modify the gameplan slightly?

What does the term "out wide" mean? I am unfamiliar with this.

It's a tricky one - Howley struggles with it - but you know those big massive blokes we have wearing numbers 11 & 14 that we send down the middle on the crash? There's nothing in the rules that says we can't pass the ball out to them on the wing occasionally.

Mad, crazy tactic that might just take the opposition by surprise.

Lots of todger size comparisons from our Welsh brethren which is good fun to see but interesting that nobody has pointed out that the majority of the Scottish squad come from Glasgow, who are currently second in the Rabo. I was much more wary of Ireland in this tournament than Wales and I still am. I have seen little that's been special in the Welsh regions so far in this domestic season.

In terms of the international set ups, Scotland will more than hold their own in the set piece, so where this will be won and lost is at the breakdown. Scotland clearly suffered against the Irish and so I would go so far as to say that if SJ doesn't realise this and stick a back to form John Barclay in there instead of Harley, it's highly likely that we will be a bit fecked.

He hasn't been drenched in the usual hyperbole but the best Welsh loose forward in the tournament so far has actually been Faletau and it's him that I fear the most. The Killer Bs back together again makes sense given Barclay's league form with Glasgow (Ulster could not cope with him last week) and the fact that Kellybrows is at his most effective at the blind.

If SJ selects the correct team, then it's looking like a pretty even match up to me - Welsh maybe edging the scrum and the Scots edging the lineout. The interesting thing is that a lot of the head to heads here will determine Lions pecking order. As with the Irish press, presumably the Welsh press will write off Ryan Grant, Sean Maitland, Stuart Hogg and Matt Scott. Just fine with us.

George Carlin I agree. The Killer Bs must be reunited.

beshocked wrote:George Carlin I agree. The Killer Bs must be reunited.

+1

They are all in form and have the perfect backrow balence.

Furthermore if Wales play a kick and chase game against Scotland they WILL get beaten. Kicking the ball away to Visser, Hogg and Maitland would be suicidal.

Wales I reckon will win if they throw Roberts and JD2 into the centre to punch holes in the Scottish defence, just like Marshall and Jackson did. A kicking game would favour Scotland rather than Wales.

Ok..so Paddy Power might have predicted a few things right in 'his' day...but who would have predicted that Ireland and France might be fighting it out for last place this year!

Bizarre year indeed.

Look, I will say this, well done Scotland on your victory yesterday, it was full of passion and endeavour and Kelly Brown playing with a broken nose for half the game summed it up for me. But, and this is a BIG but, Scotland will not enjoy as much dominance in the scrum against Wales and if they let Wales have as much possession as they let Ireland it could get messy. Wales do not have inexperienced centres and a no 10 who looks as though he should still be in my daughters class at school, Halfpenny will kick his points anywhere in Scotland's half,and a little bit of his own, and we will not go for the corners rather than squander an easy three pointer. All said though, this is Scotland's best chance in ages of beating Wales, what with the current coaching set-up we have and you cannot take away the confidence of yesterday's win either as that will count no ends. All in all though it will be a cracker, and I think that because the Scots will have a sniff they could end up being over cautious were as, if they were complete underdogs as they were against Ireland they could go in with no pressure on them at all, so for this reason only I am going for a Welsh win, not by much, but at least a 7-10 point margin.

Quite happy for Scotland to be written off by 7-10 points, especially since Wales lost at home to the team we just beat...

What's all the crap about biggest game for 20 years!! Don't get it; a reasonable Scotland versus a stuttering but standing Wales - May the best team on the day win - It could go any way although I'm sure the bookies will have Wales by 5-7 points - That will count for nothing - Good luck to all

PS - The championship has already been won by England anyways

RubyGuby wrote:What's all the crap about biggest game for 20 years!! Don't get it; a reasonable Scotland versus a stuttering but standing Wales - May the best team on the day win - It could go any way although I'm sure the bookies will have Wales by 5-7 points - That will count for nothing - Good luck to all

PS - The championship has already been won by England anyways

I agree, England are the winners but this is an important game for both Scotland and Wales. It gives Wales a chance to silence more critics and gives Scotland a chance to consolodate their 6N.

I said winning all our home games should have been the target this year, and so far we are 2thirds through it, and I always fancied our chances against Wales more than Ireland, based on Pro12 and HC form.

It's too close for me to call, but I reckon if wales win by that kind of Margin Scotland and the fans will be disapointed.

RubyGuby wrote:What's all the crap about biggest game for 20 years!! Don't get it; a reasonable Scotland versus a stuttering but standing Wales - May the best team on the day win - It could go any way although I'm sure the bookies will have Wales by 5-7 points - That will count for nothing - Good luck to all

PS - The championship has already been won by England anyways

Scotland have a chance to win three on the bounce and push for a top two finish and an outside chance at the title.
Wales are building up a nice run after an abysmal opening match.

This will be the toughest game for Wales v Scotland in a decade.

It's a big match.

RubyGuby

Probably right about the championship... I see ENG putting 20+ points on Italy meaning that the victor of Scotland Wales will need a massive dose of luck to win the championship.

I fancy us to take this one actually. Wales have won 2 away games which isn't to be laughed at but I haven't seen them put in a performance yet... perhaps they don't need to against us... but they certainly will be required to do so to beat England a few weeks later.

Not sure about the backrow balance overall... its working but with a bit of fortune.... We need more ball and need to retain possession better.

An outside chance of the title! You guys on pills or something or is it those deep fried mars bars

Not sure I'd call it the biggest game for them of 20 years but I think its important for each team in their current situation.

Scotland the perennial 'dark horses' but I've yet to see them win more than twice in the 6nations, this could see them push on and be sitting in the top half of the table come the final weekend.

Wales stuttering after stopping the rot of 8 losses in a row.

Scotland played with guts and determination, but they struggled to win the game against Ireland even with a bit of help from ROG. Their midfield defence looked weak, and thats where Wales like to attack. Their lineout was strong, and scrum went well though.

I'd imagine Scotland to get on top in the lineouts, about evens in the scrum, wales to shade the breakdown battle if RJ/Tips start on the flanks.

I'd expect Wales to send Roberts down the middle, followed by a few pods of forwards, followed by North or Cuthbert coming against the grain straight into the midfield again. Repeat.

Imo, Wales by 3-7 following a close, intense game, very similar to the scotland/ireland game or a game of 2 halves a la the ireland/wales game.

Wales will demolish Scotland in the first half just like Ireland, they will have at least 80% possession and Scotland will continue to be unable to put together 3 or more phases. Scotland may win.

I make that 4 away 6N victories on the bounce for Wales - anyone for a 5th? Will be v tough game against an always fit and committed Scotland side. PS anyone know if Lydiate will be available for either of the last 2 games? and actually, would people play him if he was, given his lack of game time?

Top wumming everyone, well done.

It's Wales 5th away victory in the 6 Nations on the bounce - Can they make it a 6th?

The past is the past, it was 2001 when we last won two 6Ns matches in a row, but we have done it now.

I think Wales will be going into this match as favourites if only that they were deserved to win playing away at italy, where we arguably deserved to lose playing at home against Ireland.

So we have the players as a team or individually to beat Wales but we have to be on top of our game to do so

Shifty wrote:I think Wales will tear Scotland apart.

If the Welsh team think that they could end up losing by 20 points.

George Carlin wrote:Top wumming everyone, well done.

Geroge, you may have to show me where I was wumming?

Comfort wrote:

George Carlin wrote:Top wumming everyone, well done.

Geroge, you may have to show me where I was wumming?

Comfort you were one of the few Welsh posters who havent wacked a few inflamatory "one liners" on this post

Its not unconceivable that we have an outside (albeit very slim) chance of winning the championship.

We have Wales at home, we are definitely not favourites, very much the underdogs, but if we click we have the one on one players who can win our next game handsomely. I think we have a better pack, specifically the front five (Murray back, Gray and Hamilton have been immense). I would even look at bringing the killer Bs back against our welsh cousins.

As far as the backs are concerned I think it will be something like this

15 Hogg v Halfpenny
14 Maitland v Cuthbert
11 Visser v North

13 Lamont or Dunbar v Davies
12 Scott v Roberts

10 Weir v Biggar
9 Laidlaw v Phillips

I would be confident with our backs to do the business if they have a platform to throw the ball around. We have played not much more than average this 6Ns and yet have won two games, so if we actually click then who knows could be like a few years ago in Cardiff when we were close on 20 pts up only to lose key and inspirational players midway in the first half (Evans, Patterson etc) and the game fell away from us.

Its going to be close but it all could come down to the final weekend

FHF, I think Scotland and Wales are in the same situation atm albeit they've got there via 2 very different paths.

Neither has played particularly well, both have shown strong defence, both have rather ground out the victories than throw the ball around with wild abandon but both have found a way to win 2 games.

Scotland have looked most dangerous counter attacking from deep, Wales have looked most dangerous from turnover ball in the middle 1/3rd. Anyone else think that both teams 'exit' strategy is playing into the others hands? Wales to kick it long, Scotland to run it back into the middle third, Wales to turn it over and kick it long again, Scotland to run it back to the middle third again, Wales to turn it over and so on....

Scotland have the guys to do damage out wide on Cuthberts side, Wales have players who can decimate the scottish midfield.

I would say that wales front 5 has really come on over the last 2 games and that will make for a real arm wrestle in the front 5. As I said earlier, scotland taking the spoils in the lineout and I think Wales will edge the scrum (but thats become a lottery of late).

I think the breakdown will be key and it'll be won by Wales unless Scotland get one of their 7's back in or make more of a commitment to getting numbers in there. Harley's done very well overall but he hasn't really troubled the rucks from a defensive side of things like Barclay/Rennie would and can do (I understand Brown's playing 7, but we all know he should be at 6).

It all makes for a very interesting game and certainly no real front runner for the win. As I said, wales by 3-7 if the game pans out how i assume.

If the game turns into a kicking duel, Wales by 7-10.

Comfort, that is exactly the way I see it, no wumming at all, as george carlin has accused us of. They way I see it, if Scotland play against us like they did against Ireland I cannot for the life of me see our backs leaving them off the hook. Also, Ireland decided for some strange reason to kick for the corners when the easy three points were on, a mistake Leigh Halfpenny will not make, even from inside our own half. I just think Scotland need to do a little extra against us in a fortnight, although they are capable of it and would not be surprised if they did beat us, as this is their best chance in a long time. But I just fancy us to win by at most 7-10 points.

Fancy Scotland to edge it. Both teams are fairly even and Scotland are at home, and will be full of confidence. I dont think Wales will be that confident, soundly beaten by Ireland, beat a pap French side that Italy and Eng(against better) both beat. And a win against Italy with no Parrisse.

LordDowlais wrote:Comfort, that is exactly the way I see it, no wumming at all, as george carlin has accused us of. They way I see it, if Scotland play against us like they did against Ireland I cannot for the life of me see our backs leaving them off the hook. Also, Ireland decided for some strange reason to kick for the corners when the easy three points were on, a mistake Leigh Halfpenny will not make, even from inside our own half. I just think Scotland need to do a little extra against us in a fortnight, although they are capable of it and would not be surprised if they did beat us, as this is their best chance in a long time. But I just fancy us to win by at most 7-10 points.

I am sure George didnt mean Comfort who is a decent poster, but have a gander at this post and you will fins many one liners from posters who as usual write a few words in order to start a mini war

"by 100%beefy Today at 1:28 pm
.
Wales will demolish Scotland in the first half just like Ireland, they will have at least 80% possession and Scotland will continue to be unable to put together 3 or more phases. Scotland may win."

In all due respect LordDowlais we have had a few occasions over the past 3-4 yrs where we have more than matched you and put for some serious injuries at important times we could arguably have won a few of them.

We probably wont play as poorly again this term

Comfort wrote:

George Carlin wrote:Top wumming everyone, well done.

Geroge, you may have to show me where I was wumming?

Not you, Comfort.

You are one of your fellow countrymen who do not get moist with hyperbole at the prospect of a game of rugby between two well matched teams and it's very much to your credit.

In all due respect LordDowlais we have had a few occasions over the past 3-4 yrs where we have more than matched you and put for some serious injuries at important times we could arguably have won a few of them.

Flyhalf, seriously we can debate this properly without any swipes, you came close in cardiff about three years ago, where you lot definatley lost that game rather than us winning it, and you beat us in 2007 in a bore fest 21 - 9, I was up there for that game, what a waste of time that was, Gareth Jenkins had no idea what so ever, but this time around, other than the confidence of beating Ireland and Italy, where do you think you have the beating of Wales ? This is not a wind up question, I would really just like to know, as you should know your own nation better than anyone else. I see Wales stronger everywhere except in the line out, but that is just me with my Welsh glasses on.

flyhalffactory wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:Comfort, that is exactly the way I see it, no wumming at all, as george carlin has accused us of. They way I see it, if Scotland play against us like they did against Ireland I cannot for the life of me see our backs leaving them off the hook. Also, Ireland decided for some strange reason to kick for the corners when the easy three points were on, a mistake Leigh Halfpenny will not make, even from inside our own half. I just think Scotland need to do a little extra against us in a fortnight, although they are capable of it and would not be surprised if they did beat us, as this is their best chance in a long time. But I just fancy us to win by at most 7-10 points.

I am sure George didnt mean Comfort who is a decent poster, but have a gander at this post and you will fins many one liners from posters who as usual write a few words in order to start a mini war

"by 100%beefy Today at 1:28 pm
.
Wales will demolish Scotland in the first half just like Ireland, they will have at least 80% possession and Scotland will continue to be unable to put together 3 or more phases. Scotland may win."

In all due respect LordDowlais we have had a few occasions over the past 3-4 yrs where we have more than matched you and put for some serious injuries at important times we could arguably have won a few of them.

We probably wont play as poorly again this term

fhf you must have a short memory.

Surely can't be that unable to get the clear irony in my post which was obviously a nod to the ridiculous game we witnesses at the weekend when sctoland were put through the mincer and yet came out on top. Good flaming luck to them they deserved it. Stop being so precious and taking yourself so seriously...this is a debating board where people may write things you don't agree with, doesn't mean they are trying to WUM/start a war and suggesting as such is in my view just as inflammatory. Read my post again.