Bizzare Six Nations! Scotland v Wales 2013 biggest game for 20 years

First topic message reminder :

This has to be the best, most exciting, most bizzare opening 3 rounds of the Six Nations ever. For a neutral fan anyway!

As a Welsh fan I feel sick as a pig at the downright embarrassing disgusting first 40 minutes against Ireland. Dan Biggar's chargedown set in motion a ridiculous chain of events and a scoreline that was too heavy to fight back from.

Wales must be a good side with real potential as they didn't exactly play great rugby, but have managed 3 tries against Ireland and two wins away in France and Italy.

I wanted Scotland to win today, because pandoras box has well and truly been opened and any team (except France) could win the championship with just 6 points!

The horrible thing for me now is that Scotland will be absolutely buzzing and this will be the most difficult match for Wales v the Scots in a generation. Since the mauling by England the Scottish defence has improved dramatically. I am really worried that they will string some tries together against Wales. On the other hand it could be an entire penalty affair like in 2007.

Wales are architects of their own doom. They currently have a back 3 that are arguably some of the best finishers in NH rugby but they have a scrum half who is slow and kicks ball away, but also other players are kicking possession away. George North hardly saw the ball yesterday. What happened to old school passing all the way through the backs to the wings???


This is how I see the table finishing:

England: 5 wins or 4 wins
Wales: 4 wins or even 3 wins
Scotland: 2 wins
France: 2 wins
Ireland: 2 wins
Italy: 1 win

Wales v England too close to call. England are fantastic, but if Wales beat Scotland then home advantage and momentum counts, especially when it's to deny England slam.

Wales to beat Scotland
France to hammer Scotland
France to beat Ireland
Ireland to beat Italy
England to destroy Italy

I was getting annoyed at my posts getting lost in 'banter' over a couple of threads to be fair. I was sort of hoping you didnt mean me

RubyGuby wrote:It's Wales 5th away victory in the 6 Nations on the bounce - Can they make it a 6th?

try to stop being wrong.
As I said, it's Wales' 4th away win on the bounce, since they lost to France in Paris on the last day of the 2011 competition

tatterd wrote:

RubyGuby wrote:It's Wales 4th away victory in the 6 Nations on the bounce - Can they make it a 5th?

try to stop being wrong.
As I said, it's Wales' 4th away win on the bounce, since they lost to France in Paris on the last day of the 2011 competition

Haven't got a clue what you're talking about Tatt

LordDowlais wrote:In all due respect LordDowlais we have had a few occasions over the past 3-4 yrs where we have more than matched you and put for some serious injuries at important times we could arguably have won a few of them.

Flyhalf, seriously we can debate this properly without any swipes, you came close in cardiff about three years ago, where you lot definatley lost that game rather than us winning it, and you beat us in 2007 in a bore fest 21 - 9, I was up there for that game, what a waste of time that was, Gareth Jenkins had no idea what so ever, but this time around, other than the confidence of beating Ireland and Italy, where do you think you have the beating of Wales ? This is not a wind up question, I would really just like to know, as you should know your own nation better than anyone else. I see Wales stronger everywhere except in the line out, but that is just me with my Welsh glasses on.

This is a stronger scotland than in previous years - can you say the same for wales.

Where Scotland will edge it. Set piece and scrum half . I think and hope laidlaw will show Phillips up However for Scotland to win we need to contest the breakdown far more effectively than against Ireland or England - do to Wales what we did to Italy and Aus last year. 10 and centres is the main advantage Wales have I think. Back 3s pretty even stevens.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

Shifty wrote:I think Wales will tear Scotland apart.

Firstly the Welsh players will not fear Scotland at all. Scotland have beaten Wales just once in the last 10 years. Wales game plan is ideally suited to defeating Scotlands.

Secondly Wales will know all about Scott Johnsons coaching style and what he will want to do. Ireland already have figured out how to stop Scotland playing it was just a freak result that stopped them from winning the game.

Fairs, fair Scotland caught Italy cold, Italy didn't see Scotland’s fast paced style, but in truth the England game was a far more realistic assessment of Scotland’s skill and power. Ireland should of beaten them by a similar score, but without Sexton didn't have the control to score the points.

Wales simply have too much skill, speed and power for Scotland over the course of 80 minutes, if Scotland can do what Ireland did against Wales early on and catch us cold then it's their best chance of a win but if Wales start well I expect them to win by 10-15 points.

Straight off the bat

Not sure if this is a WUM or you just don’t watch much rugby.

Let’s start from the top:

“I think Wales will tear Scotland apart”.

What are you basing that on? The fact that Ireland tore Wales apart in the 6N opener and was repelled by the excellent Scottish defence at Murrayfield? Good start man.

“Scotland have beaten Wales just once in the last 10 years. Wales game plan is ideally suited to defeating Scotlands.”

Can’t argue with the facts in this comment, it’s true Scotland have struggled with Wales in their last encounters. However this Scotland team is a different animal. Players like Hogg, Visser and Maitland are coming to the fore and giving us credible attacking threats in the backs unlike our last encounters. The Scotland of this years 6N are nothing like the Scotland from last years or the last 10 years. No Southwells, No Parks, no Morrison, no DeLuca, no Danielli, No Walker… gone are the blunt instruments to be replaced by players with guile, flair and pace to back up our rightly feared pack.

“Secondly Wales will know all about Scott Johnsons coaching style and what he will want to do. “

That sword cuts both ways. Johnson will know a lot of the Welsh players and how they play the game.

“Scotland caught Italy cold”

Despite Italy beating France the week before?

“Wales simply have too much skill, speed and power for Scotland”

What part of the game are you talking about? The forwards? The backs? Or what? I certainly don’t see a mismatch in speed, power or skill anywhere across the park.

I reckon this game will be close, very close and tbh I wouldn’t want to call it just yet. There is litteraly nothing between these 2 teams.

You think that was an excellent Scottish defence? missed around 20 tackles

Laidlaw's a fine scrum half. He has the best rugby brain of any of the home nations' international scrum halves and he always seems to take the right option. I'm hoping you stick with Ruaridh Jackson outside him because I think Duncan Weir's a great little player.

Im honestly dumb founded by this confidence the Scottish fans have, they are a crap poor team with unfit players unable to string a decent play together without dropping the ball.
The same team and players that regularly fail against Wales.

But i guess they can always blame the ref after Wales thump them "as usual".

I fear Italy more than Scotland.

This match will be a huge test for Scotland. They made light work of Italy but with intercept tries the result flattered a bit.

When England, Italy or Ireland played some rugby Scotland struggled defensively especially at 10 and 12.

maestegmafia wrote:When England, Italy or Ireland played some rugby Scotland struggled defensively especially at 10 and 12.

And yet they won two of those games, which is all that matters. England didn't look world-class in their last two games, but they got the job done. Same as Wales in last year's competition.

Ben Evans had it spot on on Scrum V on Sunday: Scotland never give in and Murrayfield is a tough place to go. We'll fall on our faces if we go there thinking the game's won.

I see Hastings has tipped Laidlaw to oust Halfpenny of a Lions spot

Laidlaw couldn't get a place in a Welsh prem team let alone compete with Halfpenny.
The England fullback Goode and Kearney could oust Halfpenny but Greg?!

I'm pretty sure Gavin Hastings didn't say that. Hogg, yes, but not Laidlaw.

viewtothegym wrote:Im honestly dumb founded by this confidence the Scottish fans have, they are a crap poor team with unfit players unable to string a decent play together without dropping the ball.

It's carefully measured and delicately nuanced comments like this that make you such a respected poster, View.

This match should be fascinating, a real clash of the defenses. I do see a narrow Scottish victory, as Wales seem unable to create try scoring opportunities and rely on keeping the other team out, much like Scotland, but Scotland have shown that they are able to counter if the opportunity arises.

George Carlin wrote:

viewtothegym wrote:Im honestly dumb founded by this confidence the Scottish fans have, they are a crap poor team with unfit players unable to string a decent play together without dropping the ball.

It's carefully measured and delicately nuanced comments like this that make you such a respected poster, View.

Go easy on him GC, he's only a kid who's started watching the 6N for the first time this year. I don't think he's even realised they're playing with an oval ball yet

The 6N gets interesting for Wales now.

Have they upped their game from the dismal AIs and the steamrollering at the hands of Ireland? Or have they just been playing weaker opposition? How much of a test were a mis-selected/mis-firing France and a Parisse-less Italy?

Scotland have the power advantage in the 2nd and backrows, but apparently selected a revolving door in midfield against Ireland rather than two centres. If Hogg manages to catch the ball he can be a devastating attacking runner.

With some confidence back in the Scottish side, and at Murrayfield, this could be the game of the tournament so far. Depending on which Welsh side turn up?

Actually Hastings apparently said he'd have Laidlaw as kicker over Halfpenny. I don't agree with that either, but I suppose he will stick up for his own.

I've found it now. He doesn't favour anybody.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/rugbynation/rugby-news/2013/02/26/greig-laidlaw-can-rival-leigh-halfpenny-for-lions-kicker-gavin-hastings-91466-32879518/

I do think it'll be Halfpenny or whichever ten (not Laidlaw) and more than likely will be Halfpenny who gets the gig.

Laidlaw's goalkicking is a handy bonus to have, but you wouldn't have him as you first-choice goalkicker. I still think Farrell will be outside half and goalkicker, but I didn't think much of his off-the-ball stuff against France. He should just concentrate on his own game.

I think Scotland will win for the reason that Glasgow are second in the Rabo and have beaten the Welsh regions four out of the five games they've played against them. Also Cuthbert up against Visser sounds like a battle which could be decisive, whoever has to defend the least will have a field day. I don't think players like Roberts and Davies will be a fear for the Scottish midfield the players who've broken through it have done so through footwork and whilst the Welsh centres are magnificent in their own right they couldn't sidestep sloth. As for the forwards I don't think the Welsh second rows will cope and on form the Killer Bs are a match for any back row in the Northern Hemisphere. Our front row has destroyed the Italian scrum and the Irish so, whilst the Welsh front row is strong, they should at least gain parity. Now I move onto the half-backs, Phillips' pass is so slow he mights as well run and pass it to Biggar, who's solid if not inspirational against (hopefully) Duncan Weir who could kick the ball from Murrayfield to the Millennium stadium and seems to play with a ridiculous amount of passion for Scotland. That leaves North and Halfpenny who are the only Welsh backs aside from Davies who I think aren't overrated, North is a monster and Halfpenny vs Hogg will be a big battle seeing as both have been superior to Kearney in their games, North against Maitland will be very interesting as well.

Add to that the fact that the Murrayfield crowd seem to have found their voice again, either way it will be a great game.

So the fact that Glasgow have won 4/5 against welsh regions is a deciding factor here - Do you think the fact that Wales have beaten Scotland on 9 out of the last 10 meetings might play a part -

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Laidlaw's goalkicking is a handy bonus to have, but you wouldn't have him as you first-choice goalkicker. I still think Farrell will be outside half and goalkicker, but I didn't think much of his off-the-ball stuff against France. He should just concentrate on his own game.

He is very accurate - best stats around right now IIRC but he does not have great range.

viewtothegym wrote:Im honestly dumb founded by this confidence the Scottish fans have, they are a crap poor team with unfit players unable to string a decent play together without dropping the ball.
The same team and players that regularly fail against Wales.

But i guess they can always blame the ref after Wales thump them "as usual".

I fear Italy more than Scotland.

Apologies view, we scottish posters will go back to having no faith/joy/confidence in our rugby team. In fact we will disband our professional set up and ban ourselves from playing the sport in Scotland so that you vastly superior teams, that we never ever beat, can stop wasting your time with us!

Apologies again.

Scotland are a much better team this season, this is no easy game to look forward to....

As you can see confidence in them is high, again Wales are predicted to lose their next match by the larger majority in a 606 V2 poll.

SJ has an X factor, players want to play for him and i bet Ryan has instilled that dog that makes a team dig in and win by its fingernails...Scots don' look dangerous but they look like they would rather kill their grannies before giving way to the opposition. But Wales are much mor epotent in the backs and if we gain parity in the pack we shoudl win...i expect Scots to kickall day to target our awful lineout and i hope that every waking moment isspent on it...i expect AWJ, Warbs and James to start

But Wales are much mor epotent in the backs

Really? We will see.

100%beefy wrote:SJ has an X factor, players want to play for him and i bet Ryan has instilled that dog that makes a team dig in and win by its fingernails...Scots don' look dangerous but they look like they would rather kill their grannies before giving way to the opposition. But Wales are much mor epotent in the backs and if we gain parity in the pack we shoudl win...i expect Scots to kickall day to target our awful lineout and i hope that every waking moment isspent on it...i expect AWJ, Warbs and James to start

Ye cannae shove yir granny off a bus Beefy.

Everyone knows that.

Tattie Scones RRN wrote:

100%beefy wrote:SJ has an X factor, players want to play for him and i bet Ryan has instilled that dog that makes a team dig in and win by its fingernails...Scots don' look dangerous but they look like they would rather kill their grannies before giving way to the opposition. But Wales are much mor epotent in the backs and if we gain parity in the pack we shoudl win...i expect Scots to kickall day to target our awful lineout and i hope that every waking moment isspent on it...i expect AWJ, Warbs and James to start

Ye cannae shove yir granny off a bus Beefy.

Everyone knows that.

TJ wrote:

But Wales are much mor epotent in the backs

Really? We will see.

I am not saying Scots are impotent (Visser seems quite good)

Looking at the poll I am pleased to see our Scottish friends are pretty confident.Winning a few games has given them a boost which is great to see.
It will be a shame for Wales to pop their balloon.I just hope that
Ladbrokes won't take advantage and fleece their overly confident fans.
I have gazed into my crystal ball and can reveal a 12 point winning margin for the men in red.Off to do the Lottery now!

100%beefy wrote:

TJ wrote:

But Wales are much mor epotent in the backs

Really? We will see.

I am not saying Scots are impotent (Visser seems quite good)

Position for position - do the comparison very little in it at all - and Wales do have some weaknesses to attack - the speed and guile of the scots will trouble them

123456789 wrote:I think Scotland will win for the reason that Glasgow are second in the Rabo and have beaten the Welsh regions four out of the five games they've played against them. Also Cuthbert up against Visser sounds like a battle which could be decisive, whoever has to defend the least will have a field day. I don't think players like Roberts and Davies will be a fear for the Scottish midfield the players who've broken through it have done so through footwork and whilst the Welsh centres are magnificent in their own right they couldn't sidestep sloth. As for the forwards I don't think the Welsh second rows will cope and on form the Killer Bs are a match for any back row in the Northern Hemisphere. Our front row has destroyed the Italian scrum and the Irish so, whilst the Welsh front row is strong, they should at least gain parity. Now I move onto the half-backs, Phillips' pass is so slow he mights as well run and pass it to Biggar, who's solid if not inspirational against (hopefully) Duncan Weir who could kick the ball from Murrayfield to the Millennium stadium and seems to play with a ridiculous amount of passion for Scotland. That leaves North and Halfpenny who are the only Welsh backs aside from Davies who I think aren't overrated, North is a monster and Halfpenny vs Hogg will be a big battle seeing as both have been superior to Kearney in their games, North against Maitland will be very interesting as well.

Add to that the fact that the Murrayfield crowd seem to have found their voice again, either way it will be a great game.

Not sure I agree with a lot of that, the Scottish second rows were very good against Ireland, but the welsh 2nd rows have been the standout forwards of the welsh pack along with Faletau and now Ryan Jones. I dont think we'll have a problem 'coping', it'll be a very interesting battle. The scottish pack 'destroyed' those scrums, yet wales are just 'strong' despite decimating the italians in the scrum last week like no pack I've seen do.

As I've said before, I expect the scots to get the better at the lineout, and the welsh to nudge the scrum.

The backrow battle will be very interesting! More power with the scots but more speed with the welsh.

Phillips has been average for Wales (not as bad as people are making out in the current circumstances), Laidlaws been a lot better for scotland though.

Very harsh on Biggar in his first ever 6nations, he's done very well in every game if you ask me, and hes only going to keep improving as he adapts to the international game. Weir's done well, but hes not ahead of Biggar, they're both in the same boat at the moment.

Davies hasnt seen the ball since the irish game (and probably rightly so after those 2 passes) but with his only touches against Italy he scored a try that decided the game, hes a player who scores tries when given the ball. The scottish midfield defence is weak, and I expect that will be exposed as Wales only ever seem to attack through the midfield channels. As an opposite to that, Scotland have only really looked dangerous on the counterattack, which Wales will give them plenty of chances at as they love to kick the ball long and loose.

To say Wales havent scored tries is wrong after the games so far. They've scored tries in every game.

definitely a balance to the 'welsh one-liners'

It's Scotland's game to lose. If they can 'do an Ireland' with the 2nd and back rows carrying the ball then I don't see any way Wales (without Lydiate) can stop them getting over the gainline.

It all depends on whether the Scots can turn possession and pressure into points. If they don't, and the game is close going into the last 20mins, then it could get very interesting.

I think we would have blown them away long before that mate 9/10

Let's hope the fight for 2nd place results in a good game.

Scots to win by 5-10.

123456789 wrote:I think Scotland will win for the reason that Glasgow are second in the Rabo and have beaten the Welsh regions four out of the five games they've played against them.

This reminds me of 2009, it went something like "Scotland will beat Wales because Glasgow just beat Toulouse out in France."

Morgannwg

Wales are not playing at their best....Scotland are playing better than any one gave them credit for.

majesticimperialman wrote:Morgannwg

Wales are not playing at their best....Scotland are playing better than any one gave them credit for.

??

Im that confident Scotland wont win i will bet my user name, any takers?
If Wales lose this game you can rename me until the season is over,any name i will do it,but! you must bet your user name for me to select till the season is over when Scotland lose.

Any takers? anyone that confident or stupid enough to actually back Scotland to win?

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:Straight off the bat

Not sure if this is a WUM or you just don’t watch much rugby.

Let’s start from the top:

“I think Wales will tear Scotland apart”.

What are you basing that on? The fact that Ireland tore Wales apart in the 6N opener and was repelled by the excellent Scottish defence at Murrayfield? Good start man.

“Scotland have beaten Wales just once in the last 10 years. Wales game plan is ideally suited to defeating Scotlands.”

Can’t argue with the facts in this comment, it’s true Scotland have struggled with Wales in their last encounters. However this Scotland team is a different animal. Players like Hogg, Visser and Maitland are coming to the fore and giving us credible attacking threats in the backs unlike our last encounters. The Scotland of this years 6N are nothing like the Scotland from last years or the last 10 years. No Southwells, No Parks, no Morrison, no DeLuca, no Danielli, No Walker… gone are the blunt instruments to be replaced by players with guile, flair and pace to back up our rightly feared pack.

“Secondly Wales will know all about Scott Johnsons coaching style and what he will want to do. “

That sword cuts both ways. Johnson will know a lot of the Welsh players and how they play the game.

“Scotland caught Italy cold”

Despite Italy beating France the week before?

“Wales simply have too much skill, speed and power for Scotland”

What part of the game are you talking about? The forwards? The backs? Or what? I certainly don’t see a mismatch in speed, power or skill anywhere across the park.

I reckon this game will be close, very close and tbh I wouldn’t want to call it just yet. There is litteraly nothing between these 2 teams.

The whole package, I just can't see Scotland winning this one.

You beat Italy after going into the game as underdogs, and somehow fluke a win against Ireland, though 99 times out of 100 you'd lose that game, and suddenly your world beaters.

I'm expecting Scotland to do what they always do, have a little flash in the pan and go back to being dire and below average. Scotland will build themselves up and talk to talk, like you did in Murrayfield last time we played, and Wales will wipe you off the park.

I'd be amazed if this Scottish team could beat this Welsh one.

viewtothegym wrote:Im that confident Scotland wont win i will bet my user name, any takers?
If Wales lose this game you can rename me until the season is over,any name i will do it,but! you must bet your user name for me to select till the season is over when Scotland lose.

Any takers? anyone that confident or stupid enough to actually back Scotland to win?

I reckon Cyril the Milky Bar Kid should bet you.

Morgannwg wrote:

viewtothegym wrote:Im that confident Scotland wont win i will bet my user name, any takers?
If Wales lose this game you can rename me until the season is over,any name i will do it,but! you must bet your user name for me to select till the season is over when Scotland lose.

Any takers? anyone that confident or stupid enough to actually back Scotland to win?

I reckon Cyril the Milky Bar Kid should bet you.

He should, but i have the distinct feeling he lacks the balls to back himself in any aspect of life. He backs down when met head on, he much prefers the sly snide approach.

This will be close mark my words... Scotland are tenacious in defence, and were very disappointed with the attacking effort on Sunday. SJ and Ryan bollocked the guys afterwards.

I'd expect Weir, Barclay, Murray and potentially Dunbar all to come into the team. Jackson hasn't done much wrong but Dunc sped everything up when he came on and has such a good brain... Barcs made a mess of the breakdown vs Ulster and Murray for Cross is a no brainer. Lamont was at fault for 2 line breaks vs Ireland, and Dunbar has been excellent for Glasgow.

The two teams are pretty evenly matched:

Front Row - Grant, Ford, Murray vs Jenkins, Hibbard, Jones - Three similar guys, a LH who is everywhere in the loose, a rampaging hooker and a solid TH. Depends on who gets the upper hand in the first scrum/who the ref is...

Second Row - Gray, Hamilton vs Wyn-Jones, Evans - Gray has been much more involved in the dirty stuff and Hamilton has recovered from a mini slump, but both Evans and Wyn-Jones are classy performers. Lineouts mainly up to the respective hookers performing on the day.... (usually poorly)

Back Row - Brown, Barclay, Beattie vs Jones, Tipuric, Faletau - The Killer B's back in form and back together. Could be an almighty battle with Jones and Tips great in the dirt and Faletau Wales's most consistent performer in the forwards this 6N

Half Backs - Laidlaw, Weir vs Phillips, Biggar - Laidlaw controls the game from the base, good pass and always keeps the defence honest with his brain. Weir is passionate and has an almighty boot, but is regarded as less creative. Phillips is the archetype for a big SH, and has been a key part of the Welsh play this season. Biggar has done well, but hasn't put in a truly controlled performance so far.

Centres - Scott, Dunbar vs Roberts, Davies - Scott has been strong in defence and has tried to create in attack, while Dunbar has been a key attacking threat for Glasgow and leads the defensive line well. Roberts has been quiet this tournament, while Davies has recovered from his poor game vs Ireland.

Back 3 - Visser, Maitland, Hogg vs North, Cuthbert, Halfpenny - The Scottish back three are a potent counterattacking threat, but showed their defensive capabilities with a good performance vs Ireland. Hogg is a true talent at 15. North has been a good source of go forward ball for Wales, while Cuthbert has been uncharacteristically lax going forward and looks to be struggling with confidence. Halfpenny has been assured under the high ball and has an impressive boot from the tee and hand. Battle of the FBs will be one to watch.....