v2 G.O.A.T Round 2 Group 8

In the final group of Round 2 cricket, boxing, athletics and cycling face off for your votes.

Please vote for the participant you believe has achieved the most in sport

Please leave a comment as to why you voted.

Don Bradman- Cricket- Championed by Fists of fury

"Sir Donald Bradman
Australia
Test record: 6,996 runs in 80 innings at an average of 99.94 (29 centuries)

It is a rare phenomenon indeed where an individual can be undisputedly and universally acknowledged as the finest to have ever participated in a sport. It is rarer still for that individual to be recognised as the greatest there ever will be, despite seemingly no human being beyond Mystic Meg and the recently unmasked Eric Bristow possessing the gift of foresight.

For Pele, there is Maradona. For Nicklaus, there is Woods. For ‘The Don’, there is no rival. He stands alone.

Such are the statistics of Donald George Bradman. Plying his trade throughout the 1930’s and 40’s in the famous ‘baggy green’ of Australia, Bradman compiled a record almost twice as formidable as anyone else in the history of Test cricket. In a sport harking back to 1877, that is an astonishing feat. Bradman’s final Test average of 99.94 grows all the more impressive when you consider that the widely recognised barometer for a modern batsman attaining greatness is, in comparison, a mere 50. For a sportsman to be so far afield of his predecessors, contemporaries and successors is surely unique.

Perhaps indicative of the supremacy asserted almost every time The Don walked to the crease, former Australia captain Bill Woodfull proclaimed Bradman to be “worth three batsmen to Australia.” Where a team scoring 300 in one day is classed as operating at a fairly brisk pace, Bradman once single handedly made 309 on the first day of a Test against England at Headingley. Such dominance of bat over ball was unusually rare in the age of uncovered pitches, and remains so in today’s comparatively batsman friendly era.

Despite being the holder of records that will likely never be challenged in anger, let alone broken, statistics are but one facet of what makes a great sportsman. It often takes a truly inspirational individual to transcend the sport within which they participate. Much as Muhammad Ali transcended the sport of boxing, Don Bradman transcended cricket. Bradman emerged during a period of great economic hardship in Australia, and through the sheer force of his on-field performances it is said gave happiness and hope to a populace in the midst of depression.

You can't tell youngsters today of the attraction of the fellow. I mean, business used to stop in the town when Bradman was playing and likely to go in - all the offices closed, the shops closed; everybody went up to see him play. – England bowler Bill Bowes, 1983

Bradman would go on to exhibit a further trait of any world class sportsman: success in the face of adversity. After scoring an extraordinary 974 runs at an average of 139.14 in the 1930 Ashes tour of England, Bradman was infamously targeted by hostile and aggressive ‘Bodyline’ bowling during the 1932-33 return series in Australia – a theory designed with the sole intention of taking Bradman’s wicket, whereby the English fast bowlers would deliberately target the body of the batsman with a packed leg-side cordon of fielders lying in wait – The Don was almost rendered mortal with a series average of 56.57 (still a world class average by anyone’s standards). It was his own controversial tactic of combating bodyline by backing away and hitting the ball in an unorthodox manner in to the vacant off-side that won Bradman plaudits for attempting to find a solution to Bodyline.

It should be noted that, despite the whole of Australia being in uproar over the “vicious and unsporting” tactics employed by the English captain Douglas Jardine, and despite his own misgivings, Bradman conducted himself with dignity throughout and fought the onslaught in the way he knew best – by scoring runs. ‘Bodyline’, or ‘fast leg theory’ as it was also known, would later be outlawed.

Somewhat ironically, and perhaps unfortunately, the great Don Bradman is as much remembered for his final innings than the unsurpassed genius that had carved a path of destruction through the cricketing world wielding but a plank of willow in the preceding years. Striding to the crease at The Oval in 1948, Bradman required a mere 4 runs from his final Test innings to ensure an overall perfect Test average of 100. Whether through the emotion stirred in The Don through the adulation of the English crowd and opponents as he walked out that day (as much cheers of relief that his utter dominion over England’s bowlers was nearing an end, perhaps?), or the cricketing Gods inflicting a cruel twist of fate as if to reclaim the immortality they had lent him, Bradman was bowled for a duck by Warwickshire leg-spinner Eric Hollies, thus ending his career with that infamous average of 99.94 – a now magical figure in its own right. It will never be bettered.

Next to Mr. Winston Churchill, he was the most celebrated man in England during the summer of 1948. His appearances throughout the country were like one continuous farewell matinée. A miracle has been removed from among us. So must ancient Italy have felt when she heard of the death of Hannibal – cricket writer R.C. Robertson-Glasgow upon Bradman’s retirement, 1949

Sir Donald Bradman died in February of 2001 aged 92. It would have come as a surprise to many that he failed to get out of the 90’s. There are numerous others with a rightful claim to being the greatest sportsman that ever lived, but in Bradman there has surely never been another so superior to their peers. A genius, an icon and a gentleman; The Don satisfies all of the criteria.

Sir Donald George Bradman was, without any question, the greatest phenomenon in the history of cricket, indeed in the history of all ball games. – Wisden Almanack"

Mohammed Ali- Boxing- Championed by 6oldenbhoy

"When I offered to take part in this exercise I was originally asked to champion another fighter. I had my reservations as, in my opinion, this man’s aura was built more on the reputation he had acquired rather than his in ring achievement (though I must admit he did achieve a heck of a lot). I had no such qualms with the second option, the self proclaimed ‘Greatest’ Muhammad Ali. At this point I must admit that, although I have been a fight fan for many years, some of my earliest memories are of watching Michael Carruth and Wayne McCullough in the Barcelona Olympics and no Saturday night was complete with watching the boxing on ITV, I have never been a massive fan of Ali. I have seen almost all of his fights, viewed all the major documentaries and read various articles on the man but I've always had an almost take it or leave it attitude towards him. However, upon undertaking this activity, I have found an admiration and respect for the man who would be a worthy winner of this accolade. His career encompassed everything, monumental highs, catastrophic lows, triumph in the face of adversity, not to mention controversy all now tinged with tragedy. To fit all of this into an article would be an impossible task, such was the effect he had on Boxing and the World around him.

Cassius Marcellus Clay Jr was born on the 17/1/1942 to a Methodist father and Baptist mother. Few could have predicted what this child would go on and accomplish. The story begins when at the age of twelve young Cassius had his bicycle stolen. A thirst for revenge drove him to his local boxing gym where he should such aptitude for the sport that in a mere six years he was crowned Olympic Light Heavyweight Champion in Rome in 1960. Nino Benvenuti, the darling of his home crowd, won the Val Barker Trophy but many thought this accolade belonged to Clay.

Upon returning home he promptly turned profession under the tutelage of Angelo Dundee. He quickly developed into a boxer fleet of foot with a stinging jab,lightning reflexes and with more than adequate power. Nineteen straight wins led to a title shot against the fearsome Sonny Liston. Going into the contest Clay was a 7/1 underdog, but won the title when Liston retired on his stool at the end of the sixth round. The rematch wouldn’t last as long, Liston going down in the first. Some claimed Liston took a dive, others claim it was a legitimate punch. The fight did create one the most iconic sporting images of the twentieth century, where Ali (shortly after the Liston fight he had changed his name to Cassius X, then to Muhammad Ali) stands over his fallen opponent screaming at him to continue. Ali went on to defend the title a further eight times.

Muhammad was stripped of his title soon after his final defense against Zora Folley. His boxing license was also revoked and was sentenced to five years in jail. He appealed and remained on bail but was unable to box for three and a half years. Eventually given a license to fight in Atlanta, Ali won the first of two comeback fights before challenging Joe Frazier for the undisputed Heavyweight Championship, in a bout now known as “The Fight of the Century”. It was a thriller from start to finish, Ali starting the faster, but Frazier slowly walked him down. Frazier was ahead on all scorecards going into the final round when he unleashed a tremendous left hook that put Ali on the canvas. Ali bravely rose and heard the final bell but lost a unanimous decision. It was noted that Ali did not have the usual bounce in his step and one could argue showed the effects of three and a half years out.

Ali would not challenge for the World title for another three years. He won thirteen of his next fourteen fights, avenging the only loss he suffered in this period. A win over Joe Frazier set up a bout with Big George Foreman. This was to be Ali’s finest hour. Going into the bout, entitled the “Rumble in the Jungle”, nobody was giving Ali a chance. Ali had suffered losses to both Ken Norton and Joe Frazier whereas Foreman had knocked both of the out in them in the second round. Ali started brightly enough, but then adopted a tactic of lying on the ropes and absorbing punishment from Foreman. Foreman punched but Ali blocked them, shooting out counters of his own at every chance. This tactic, which Ali would later describe as “Rope-a-Dope” would have been seen to be suicide to many but becoming increasingly effective as Foreman threw haymaker after haymaker to down Ali, but Ali took them and answered back with his own. Entering the eighth Foreman was visibly exhausted. Ali pounced, trapping him on the ropes pummeling him with a barrage of blow that put Foreman down. He was unable to answer the count and a New Champion was crowned. Ali defended the title a further three times before facing Joe Frazier in the final installment of their classic trilogy.

The “Thrilla in Manila” took place, funnily enough, in the Filipino capital in front of crowd of 28,000. What followed was fourteen rounds of unsheathed brutality before Frazier was retired on his stool. Frazier’s eyes were so badly swollen that he claimed he couldn't see the punches coming, yet still protested when Eddie Futch withdrew him from the contest. Ali led from the front punishing Frazier with hooks, jabs and uppercuts wobbling Frazier frequently. Frazier gamely fought back every time and in the mid rounds unleashed one of his trademark left hooks right to Ali’s jaw. This punch looked like it could have felled a tree, yet Ali took it and stayed on his feet. By the end of the fight Frazier was taking continuous punishment. In the fourteenth, Ali landed punch after punch on a more and a more helpless Frazier. It was a mercy when the fight was stopped. Ali described the contest as the closest thing to dying he had experienced, whilst showing humility, describing Frazier as the toughest man alive. A further six defenses of the title followed before he lost the title to “Neon” Leon Spinks. He won the title back in the return before retiring. A brief comeback last two fights, both defeats, though Ali was a shell of his former self by this stage.

When people talk of athletes transcending sport, Ali is the one who first comes to mind. When you ask the common man or women on the street who they most associate with the sport of Boxing, Ali’s name will be said most frequently. As big a fan as I am of the Klitschkos, the average person on the street would struggle to name either of them as Heavyweight Champion of the world. When Ali was Champion, it was the exact opposite. He was one of the most recognized faces in the world, never mind sportsmen. This was the reason Sports Illustrated named him Sportsman of the Century, as did the BBC. The Heavyweight Championship of the World was once talked of as the greatest prize in sport and it was fighters like Muhammad Ali that made it so. This is a sport that has so little margin for error. Moving your head even fractionally may have devastating results. As former Heavyweight title challenger Tex Cobb once said ""If you screw things up in tennis, it's 15-love. If you screw up in boxing, it's your ass."" Ali excelled at this sport even when he had returned a faded fighter physically from his imposed exile. However like all greats at any sport he found other ways to win. His in ring intelligence set him apart from his contemporaries when he had lost the bounce in his step and his reflexes had dulled. It must not be forgotten that he displayed all these skills and attributes in what was the golden period of Heavyweight boxing. While he is remembered for his talents by some, others will recall him for his mouth. Ali was the ultimate showman. The press loved him and although he could be vulgar and downright disrespectful to his opponents at times, it could be said that this hyped fights and helped him to get that mental edge on his opponent. As I alluded to in my opening paragraph, I had my doubts when I was asked to champion another fighter due to his record, I find Ali to be the complete package. His record stands alone as far as Heavyweights go, while he had the showmanship and charisma that contributed to his everlasting legacy on sport. Long after we are all gone people will still talk of Ali. The Ali of today has been ravaged by Parkinsonism, an unwanted souvenir of a career spanning twenty one years inside the ring. Yet to see him light the Olympic flame at the Atlanta games was a one of the most iconic moments of the 20th Century. To this day he continues to battle his condition with just as much courage as he exhibited throughout his career in the ring. It takes a brave man to step through those ropes and Ali has shown both through his career and the aftermath, that he is right up there with the bravest of them all.
"

Brain Lara- Cricket- Championed by VTR

"We can all look at statistics when we try to decide who is the greatest but sometimes seeing with our own eyes is the only way to judge. Bradman’s average, Tendulkar’s runs, Sober’s all-round feats are all there in the record books, but for sheer aesthetics there is the man with the high back-lift and flashing blade that made batting look so elegant you knew you were witnessing something special: that man is Brian Charles Lara.

Equally as devastating when facing fast, spin bowling or anything in between, Lara had the ability to dominate any attack in any part of the world. With a Test career spanning 1990-2006, playing at a time when opposition bowling attacks were almost universally strong (Wasim & Waqar, McGrath & Warne, Donald & Pollock), here was a batsmen who would have all in the ground enthralled as he played every shot in the book with such panache you would think he was playing a different game to everyone else. As an opposition supporter you’d somehow want him to stay in and get out at the same time; you knew the damage he could do, yet you would always want to watch more.

And it’s not as if the style was lacking in the way of substance. Far, far from it. In 1994 Lara destroyed a capable England attack to help himself to 375 runs and take the record for the highest individual Test score, overtaking Sober’s 365 which had stood for 36 years. This was merely the start of a purple patch of an incredible 7 hundreds in 8 first-class innings, culminating in a record that could, like The Don’s Test average stand forever: an innings of 501 not out against Durham when playing for Warwickshire in the County Championship. An entire team is generally elated with an innings total of 500+, but such was his hunger for runs Lara was able to achieve that many on his own.

When Matthew Hayden bullied a club-standard Zimbabwe attack for 380 runs a decade later to take away the record of highest individual Test score, the world wept that such a prestigious record could be achieved against such poor opposition. Thankfully Lara wasn’t finished, and with mutterings of a decline during an unusually subdued home series in 2004 he astonishingly took the record back with a chanceless innings of 400 not out. England were again on the receiving end, and despite having dominated the series for a 3-0 lead at that point were powerless to stop another innings of absolute genius. To put this into context, the record individual Test score has only changed hands 4 times since the Second World War. Lara stands apart in having gained the record twice.

Do you need any more convincing? An overall Test average of 52.88 is 17th on the all-time list, which is exceptional given the bowling attacks he faced, the lack of reliable batting partners in his later career and the challenges of captaining a team that was often in crisis for a large part of that. As the Windies decline set in from the mid to late 1990’s, Lara often seemed to be fighting a lone battle as a once-dominant team started to taste defeat on a regular basis. One of his most astonishing feats was somehow dragging the Windies to a 2-2 draw against the great Australia team in 1999. His innings of 153 not out in securing a thrilling one wicket victory in the Third Test is rated by Wisden as the second greatest Test innings of all time. Even more remarkable is that just days earlier he’d scored 213 in setting up a shock victory in the Second Test to level the series.

I haven’t even mentioned one-day cricket yet where Lara was one of the masters of his age, averaging over 40 in the shorter form and playing an integral part in the Windies shock run to the 1996 World Cup final. Naturally there was a defining innings in there: his masterful 111 off just 94 balls knocked the stuffing out of South Africa in the Quarter Final.

Some say when he retired in 2007 it was too early, the flourish was still there, he could still make a difference (Lara had averaged 66 in his final Test Series). But as with those flashing strokes, I’d say his timing was perfect. We were not to be subjected to any tarnishing of memories as a slow decline set in: we witnessed and will remember nothing but sheer beauty."

Eddy Merckx- Cycling- Championed by Mad for Chelsea

"Eddy Merckx - or Edouard Louis Joseph, Baron Merckx to give him his full name - is undoubtedly the greatest cyclist of all time. Until recently, people talked of Lance Armstrong's achievements, but they pale to near insignificance besides Merckx's. Nicknamed ""The Cannibal"", he was cycling's last true great all-rounder: capable of winning bunch sprints (he won the Points jersey for the Tour de France on three occasions), he was also a great Classics rider, winning a remarkable 28 Classic races (as well as 3 world titles). Lastly, of course, he was a superb GC (General Classification) rider in the Grand Tours, equally dominant in the Time Trials and in the mountains.

Merckx began his cycling career as an amateur in 1961. He won 80 races as an amateur including the world amateur championships in 1964, before turning professional the following year. In 1966 he won his first big race, the Milan-San Remo classic. In 1967 he repeated the success and won two further classics (Gant-Wevelgem and la Fleche Wallonne), as well as becoming World Champion for the first time. 1968 was the year he won his first Grand Tour, the Giro d'Italia, in which he remarkably claimed all three main jerseys (the GC pink one, the King of the Mountains one and the Points one).

He continued to improve thereon, winning a further 4 Giro d'Italia, adding 5 Tour de France, and a Vuelta a Espana for good measure (the only time he entered the race) upto 1974. He managed the Giro-Tour double (a feat whose attempt saw Contador fail at the 2011 Tour de France) a stupendous three times. He also claimed the hat-trick of jerseys at the 1969 Tour (a unique feat) and added two further points jerseys in the Tour, one in the Giro, and a KOM jersey in the Tour. All the while he continued to add to his Classics tally, claiming at least three per year from 1969 to 1973 (including a remarkable 5 in 1973) and adding four more in 1975. He also added two more World titles in 1971 and 1974. In 1976 he won his final Classic, fittingly the Milan-San Remo (also his first) for an amazinn 7th time.

I won't bore you with the full statistical details of just how amazing Merckx's career really was, but here are a few chosen stats nonetheless, all of which are still records today:
- 28 Classics
- 11 Grand Tours: Tour de Grance x5 Giro d'Italia x5 Vuelta a Espana x1
- 34 stage wins in the Tour de France
- 525 career victories
- most days with the yellow jersey (GC leader) in the Tour de France (96).

I think that's enough to be getting on with. As I stated at the start, Eddy Merckx is undoubtedly the greatest cyclist of all time, and as such deserves a strong mention in this discussion."

Brain Lara?

Ali vs Bradman?

Being a massive fan of The Don, my vote will have to go for him.

Ali is a massive name but not close to being the best boxer of all time.

Lara is one great player but in fairness, shouldn't have been in the 64.

5!!

The DON!

I know cycling is viewed as a minority sport on here, and most probably can't put Merckx's career statistics into perspective, but let's just say that he is to road cycling what Bradman is to cricket or Federer is to tennis - the guy who is far and away the best there has ever been. A very good cyclist may win a couple of Classics or one of the lesser Tours, a great one wins a handful of classics or the Tour de France and an all time great would have maybe 10 Classics wins or multiple Tour de France wins. 100 wins in a career is the stuff of either a very good sprinter or a great at anything else. Merckx knocks all of these into a cocked hat, and did it by being competitive in virtually every race through the season.

For me, should be in the Top 8 overall, but sadly the luck of the draw in this case sees him against 2 guys I'd place in the top 4. He should have walked the other group today though.

In this company we can quickly discount Lara and Thompson, so I'm left with the choice between Bradman and Ali - a cricketer who is objectively the best sportsman ever (in that his statistics are further ahead of the rest of his sport than anyone else) against probably the biggest sporting icon of them all. In purely sporting terms I have to come down in favour of Bradman, as there are some flaws in Ali's record and even the boxing fans here mostly don't have him as the GOAT of their sport based on performance.

Ali - The Greatest. So much more than just a boxer.

One of three here, pick one out of a hat to separate Bradman, Merckx and Ali. Went for Bradman, but anyone of them would be deserving of the next round. Group of death or what.

Have i slept for a week and woken up at the semifinal stage??? What a tough group! Apart from Lara (who was amazing), i wouldnt complain if any of these were in the top5 of this competition. For me, Ali would be my no 1 so my vote goes to him.

Thompson is British. Putting that aside, there's no earthly reason why he's still here.

Lara isn't a patch on Bradman so we can also dismiss him immediately.

With a kinder draw,Merckx could have got to the last 16 and that would probably have been a fair result. However, he's a long way off Ali and Bradman and their sort of continuing legacies.

I have tremendous respect and sympathy for Ali but feel he tarnished his reputation and that of his sport by staying on too long. That decision (or his choice of advisers if they made it for him) was sickeningly wrong.

I therefore opt for Bradman. His supreme dominance has been well documented. The irony of his sporting career also ending in failure is not lost on me.

Group of death indeed - Gone Ali more on the requirements of the sport versus those in early 20th century cricket.

gah, what an absolutely shocking draw for my champion Merckx!!! Trouble is, while I would have Merckx in a top 10 of GOAT competition, I wouldn't definitely have him in a top 5, where Ali and Bradman would sit fairly comfortably (Ali, Bradman and Federer all make my top 5 everyday, while the last two spots vary somewhat: Owens, Phelps, Pele, Maradona, Merckx, Jordan, Gretsky probably make up my top 10 or so, with the caveat that off the top of my head I've probably forgotten the odd one).

Bradman for me is the GOAT so I should vote for him, but considering a tactical vote for Merckx just so he doesn't fall completely by the wayside. I expect Bradman and Ali to progress from this one comfortably anyway.

I should read the posts before commenting. Pretty much what dummy said: Merckx deserves to go further (much further) in this competition, but you can't put him ahead of Ali or Bradman so he misses out. The other two candidates were very fine sportsmen of course, but not in this league.

It all comes back to the group stages which rather unfortunately saw Merckx lose out on top spot to Borg (which I put down partly to the stronger tennis presence on these boards, and partly to the fact that the initial voting was right in the middle of Armstrong-gate). Shame

Voted for Bradman here, just edging out Ali. If it's down to purely who was the greater performer in the context of their sport and dominating their peers, then Bradman trumps Ali comfortably, but Ali, as well as being the greatest Heavyweight boxer of the lot in my eyes, was also a pop icon, an entertainer, a symol of hate, symbol of love, a public enemy number one in some quarters and an idol in others all rolled in to one. If it's sporting personalities which do it for you, then there's never been anyone to even carry Ali's jockstrap.

Merckx's career was phenomenally successful, but no matter how hard I try I just can't shake off those three failed PED tests, and it puzzles me how routinely and quietly this gets swept under the carpet. One test I could perhaps understand; "It was prescribed to me, I didn't read the small print, I was set up" and the like. Two tests is another matter entirely, but three separate ones? It just creates too much doubt for me. I wouldn't pick him ahead of Bradman or Ali in any case, but that extra factor really does blow out all of Merckx's candles here, for me.

Bradman

Why is everyone so quick to dismiss Daley Thompson? Multiple Olympic gold medal winner, good enough to compete at Olympic level in the pole vault and relay, and a guy who consistently pulled out the big performances when it really mattered.

Perhaps most important, he was in direct competition for all of his career with Jurgen Hincksen, who would be a clear contender for the Decathlon GOAT... were it not for Thompson. Hincksen would regularly break the world record during the season and come into major championships in stunning form, only for Thompson to pull an even more stupendous performance out of the bag. No decathlete in the subsequent 25 years has had anything like the impact on the sport that Thompson and Hincksen did.

Of the other candidates in this round, only Ali had anything like that sort of rivalry with another competitor.

I just think the guy is worthy of some consideration, rather than being dismissed or completely ignored. Did anyone champion him in the previous version of the tournament?

Thompson is clearly a legend in the decathlon- the ultimate sport in a way..

Although I didn't vote for him here, I agree with Poorfour; Thompson's place here is nothing to do with his nationality. A genuinely legendary sportsman by whichever yard stick you decide to use and, if we're talking who is Britain's greatest Olympian, I think Daley blows Redgrave's doors off, personally.

I may have written the Lara article but obviously there is no way anyone should vote for him up against Bradman. I think Lara did well to get in the last 32 to be honest.

Poorfour

My reason for dismissing Thompson is simply that he's up against 3 guys I'd put well inside my personal top 10- in the other group today he'd certainly merit much stronger consideration.

I do though find myself torn a bit regarding the decathlon - great all-rounders or 'jack of all trades, master of none'? It's easier to judge heptathletes because the best of them usually perform to world class level in one or two of the individual disciplines (Ennis's 100m hurdles time in the Olympic heptathlon would have won her the bronze in the individual event, and JJK broke the world long jump record in a heptathlon competition). Of course part of the reason for that is that the demands of 7 events are not as diverse as of 10, and so it is reasonable for a heptathlete to train as a sprinter-jumper and just muddle through the throwing events, whereas training for the decathlon is more about a compromise.

I heard a quote attributed to Daley, when asked which of his ten events he would like to improve in, responding 'all of them', and explaining that he could (theoretically) specialise in one area but that it would have a detrimental effect elsewhere and so be counter-productive to him as a decathlete.

Ok.. I know there isn't a race driver in this group..

Sky sports is doing its little women in motor sport bit. These women reakon there are as good as the men..

If this is even close to being true.. Can we discount all F1 dudes please..

It cant be a sport

After a "meh" over Group 7, two real all time greats are in the same group!! Apologies to Bradman for going for Ali, but it surely in a close run thing!

mystiroakey wrote:Thompson is clearly a legend in the decathlon- the ultimate sport in a way..

Mysti - I suspect that's part of the problem. Is decathlon the ultimate sport or a collection of sports for those who can't excel at one? The latter is a tough interpretation and unfair in some cases but I do feel it's a fairly common viewpoint.

I don't deny that Thompson was a fine and successful sportsman but he wouldn't make my top ten world athletes and for that reason I consider him to have done amazingly well to have reached this top 32 of all time sporting greats.

guildfordbat wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:Thompson is clearly a legend in the decathlon- the ultimate sport in a way..

Mysti - I suspect that's part of the problem. Is decathlon the ultimate sport or a collection of sports for those who can't excel at one? The latter is a tough interpretation and unfair in some cases but I do feel it's a fairly common viewpoint.

I don't deny that Thompson was a fine and successful sportsman but he wouldn't make my top ten world athletes and for that reason I consider him to have done amazingly well to have reached this top 32 of all time sporting greats.

I haven't had time to check on this but I am pretty sure that Thompson competed internationally and possibly at Olympic level in the pole vault and was occasionally a member of the GB sprint relay team. Considering his philosophy of trying to excel in all ten disciplines, that would belie the "jack of all trades" accusation...

well the point is that the best golfers , the best tennis players, the best footballers can do a lot more than one skill!

beckham wont get into many top 10 goat footballers, but possibly was the bet ever passer , crosser.

goran wouldnt get into anyones top 10 tennis players. but the best server!

same goes for golf with long drivers or putters!

traiditonal sportsman have rounded skillz..

the only atletes that have this is droves are decathletes

Poorfour

I can't find any record of Daley having been to the Olympics as a pole vaulter, although I do have some recollection of him either winning a AAAs title or competing in the event for GB - I think he was roughly a 5m vaulter, so good at domestic level (at a time when we had a dearth of quality vaulters) but not really competitive on the international scene. Pretty sure his 100m best was just under 10.5s, so again very good (and would leave all us mortals in his dust) but not comparable with the specialists in international competition. Maybe good enough to be part of the sprint relay squad in things like the Commonwealth Games, but again a bit short of the best.

Oakey, after 15,000 posts on here is there any chance you could improve your posting style? e.g. use Capital letters, cut out the typos etc

Not being grammar police here, I just genuinely struggle with reading your posts at times!

I sometimes try.

And then I forget to try

Do you know of any spell checker systems that works on a forum from your PC?

When I post from my IPAD. It capitalises and spell checks for me.. If I got a keyboard for it I would possibly post from the IPad more often

Ha ha. I had noticed sometimes they are better. You make some good points but sometimes deciphering them gives me a bit of a headache.

Definitely keep the enthusiasm though, it counters some of the depressingly negative posters we have on here (no names of course!).

Not sure on spellcheck, on my home PC Google Chrome spell checks as I type, but the work computer on IE doesn't do it!

I get an underline when I speell things wrong?

Ta VTR

I have just switched to Chrome

I always have it on my PC for my Google calender- But normally only browse on Firefox.

And yes it is giving me an underline..(Stella)

It might help.

To be honest I prefer Outlook or Word. Because it checks grammar as well.

Sometimes the more I think. You more confusing words and letters become!

(yep I am Dyslexic- I don't want any sympathy!)

Looks like Bradman is going out

I'd look in the settings on Chrome, there might be something on grammar. I find it worryingly clever in other respects like it thinks of what you are trying to do before you have to do it e.g. translating websites, filling in forms.

Re Bradman, top 2 through in this round so The Don will be ok here!

Aah, top 2

Top two go through Stella!

Anyone think super_realist might have finally ended it all? The man who hates all sport but spends hours on a sports forum.

Bradman and Woods up today and yet to see "Baldy nine-chins" or "cucumber sandwich munching bat leaner" being mentioned - very worrying!

SR has been on a golf thread today talking about potatoes..

He is still with us!

Let me guess. He doesn't like potatoes!

To be honest that topic got surreal(probably from my original input!)

Ali for me. Undoubtedly in my eyes the best heavyweight boxer of the lot. Involved in some of the most memorable/famous fights of all time and probably the most famous sportsmen of all time in my eyes.

I don't like him as a person and think his actions outside and inside of the ring during his career were a disgrace but his impact in the sporting world is undoubtable.

Went for Merckx. Ali the ultimate transcender but not really close for me as the ultimate boxer yet alone sportsman.
The heavyweights are a niche within a niche sport and as a rule far less skilful than the other lighter weights. Of course Ali was the fantastic exception .. but he was fighting other heavies who made him look more skilful than say Leonard when he was fighting Benitez and Hearns etc.

This ones easy, Ali all the way.

Bit ridiculous comparing cricketers and cyclists to a boxer.

No hesitation - for me it has to be Bradman.

Probably Bradman for me.
Between him an Ali but, wheras Bradman is undoubtedly the best batsman of all time, can Ali definitely be said to be the greatest heavyweight?
Of course, you have to factor in the idea of Ali 'transcending' his sport, and the fact that boxing is a more global sport than cricket. But against that you have to set the sheer statistical dominance of Bradman over all other batsmen in history. So, Bradman just edges it for me.

Hoggy

But Bradman wasnt that great a bowler was he?

aucklandlaurie wrote:
Hoggy

But Bradman wasnt that great a bowler was he?

True.
But then, Ali wasn't a particularly good Flyweight.
Seriously though, in team games like cricket people have defined roles. We don't hold it against people like Pele that they weren't great defenders, or against people like Gareth Edwrds that he wasn't a great exponent of the line-out. We also don't hold it against these players that there were other great players who were, perhaps, more versatile. At least provably so. Someone like Franz Benkenbauer or Mike Gibson, for example. Bradman had a defined role as a batsman, as have any number of players who followed him. At that role he was better than anyone else in history. It should, perhaps, also be factored in that, unlike a number of other great players, Bradman was also a great (or, at least, a very successful), captain.