v2 G.O.A.T Round 1 Group 3

Yesterday’s group pitted four sporting greats from the worlds of Tennis, Cycling, Athletics and American Football against each other and after a close battle between Bjorn Borg and Eddy Merckx that ebbed and flowed all day Borg finally proved victorious taking the group with 26 votes to Merckx 24. Both progress into round 2 with Kershee and Joe Montana exiting the competition at the first stage.

Today’s group see football, boxing, tennis and cricket compete for your votes.

We have just the one article today championing one of the four entrants, so please feel free to add your comments below to assist your chosen participant.

Please vote for the competitor you believe has achieved the most in sport and should progress into the next round.

Please leave a comment as to why you voted

Donald Bradman- Cricket- Championed by Fists of fury

Australia
Test record: 6,996 runs in 80 innings at an average of 99.94 (29 centuries)

It is a rare phenomenon indeed where an individual can be undisputedly and universally acknowledged as the finest to have ever participated in a sport. It is rarer still for that individual to be recognised as the greatest there ever will be, despite seemingly no human being beyond Mystic Meg and the recently unmasked Eric Bristow possessing the gift of foresight.

For Pele, there is Maradona. For Nicklaus, there is Woods. For ‘The Don’, there is no rival. He stands alone.

Such are the statistics of Donald George Bradman. Plying his trade throughout the 1930’s and 40’s in the famous ‘baggy green’ of Australia, Bradman compiled a record almost twice as formidable as anyone else in the history of Test cricket. In a sport harking back to 1877, that is an astonishing feat. Bradman’s final Test average of 99.94 grows all the more impressive when you consider that the widely recognised barometer for a modern batsman attaining greatness is, in comparison, a mere 50. For a sportsman to be so far afield of his predecessors, contemporaries and successors is surely unique.

Perhaps indicative of the supremacy asserted almost every time The Don walked to the crease, former Australia captain Bill Woodfull proclaimed Bradman to be “worth three batsmen to Australia.” Where a team scoring 300 in one day is classed as operating at a fairly brisk pace, Bradman once single handedly made 309 on the first day of a Test against England at Headingley. Such dominance of bat over ball was unusually rare in the age of uncovered pitches, and remains so in today’s comparatively batsman friendly era.

Despite being the holder of records that will likely never be challenged in anger, let alone broken, statistics are but one facet of what makes a great sportsman. It often takes a truly inspirational individual to transcend the sport within which they participate. Much as Muhammad Ali transcended the sport of boxing, Don Bradman transcended cricket. Bradman emerged during a period of great economic hardship in Australia, and through the sheer force of his on-field performances it is said gave happiness and hope to a populace in the midst of depression.

You can't tell youngsters today of the attraction of the fellow. I mean, business used to stop in the town when Bradman was playing and likely to go in - all the offices closed, the shops closed; everybody went up to see him play. – England bowler Bill Bowes, 1983

Bradman would go on to exhibit a further trait of any world class sportsman: success in the face of adversity. After scoring an extraordinary 974 runs at an average of 139.14 in the 1930 Ashes tour of England, Bradman was infamously targeted by hostile and aggressive ‘Bodyline’ bowling during the 1932-33 return series in Australia – a theory designed with the sole intention of taking Bradman’s wicket, whereby the English fast bowlers would deliberately target the body of the batsman with a packed leg-side cordon of fielders lying in wait – The Don was almost rendered mortal with a series average of 56.57 (still a world class average by anyone’s standards). It was his own controversial tactic of combating bodyline by backing away and hitting the ball in an unorthodox manner in to the vacant off-side that won Bradman plaudits for attempting to find a solution to Bodyline.

It should be noted that, despite the whole of Australia being in uproar over the “vicious and unsporting” tactics employed by the English captain Douglas Jardine, and despite his own misgivings, Bradman conducted himself with dignity throughout and fought the onslaught in the way he knew best – by scoring runs. ‘Bodyline’, or ‘fast leg theory’ as it was also known, would later be outlawed.

Somewhat ironically, and perhaps unfortunately, the great Don Bradman is as much remembered for his final innings than the unsurpassed genius that had carved a path of destruction through the cricketing world wielding but a plank of willow in the preceding years. Striding to the crease at The Oval in 1948, Bradman required a mere 4 runs from his final Test innings to ensure an overall perfect Test average of 100. Whether through the emotion stirred in The Don through the adulation of the English crowd and opponents as he walked out that day (as much cheers of relief that his utter dominion over England’s bowlers was nearing an end, perhaps?), or the cricketing Gods inflicting a cruel twist of fate as if to reclaim the immortality they had lent him, Bradman was bowled for a duck by Warwickshire leg-spinner Eric Hollies, thus ending his career with that infamous average of 99.94 – a now magical figure in its own right. It will never be bettered.

Next to Mr. Winston Churchill, he was the most celebrated man in England during the summer of 1948. His appearances throughout the country were like one continuous farewell matinée. A miracle has been removed from among us. So must ancient Italy have felt when she heard of the death of Hannibal – cricket writer R.C. Robertson-Glasgow upon Bradman’s retirement, 1949

Sir Donald Bradman died in February of 2001 aged 92. It would have come as a surprise to many that he failed to get out of the 90’s. There are numerous others with a rightful claim to being the greatest sportsman that ever lived, but in Bradman there has surely never been another so superior to their peers. A genius, an icon and a gentleman; The Don satisfies all of the criteria.

Sir Donald George Bradman was, without any question, the greatest phenomenon in the history of cricket, indeed in the history of all ball games. – Wisden Almanack"

DUDE. Annoying!!


Zidane is one of my fav ever footballers.. But i had to go for Sir Bradman. As true a legend as they come..

Easy one for me.

Bradman IMO is the GOAT.

I do love Zidane though. A great player and also great to watch. Feet like hands and always one step ahead in his brain.

Navratalova is perhaps behind Graf as the greatest woman tennis player, so not even close.

I had to Googel Harry Greb. In wiki, it mentioned him being voted the 7th best fighter of all time. This being the case, it would be a no in any GOAT round.

Navratilova all the way. 344 titles!!! No-one can boast a better record!

Stella, Bradman retired in 1949, so can he really be compared when his peers were a bunch of de-mobbed soldiers? Having him would be a bit like having Joe Davis, Byron Nelson or Stanley Matthews

No doubt he was an outstanding cricketer, as was WG Grace, but Bradman's time was way too long ago to be compared to the modern truly professional era.

who did you vote SR

If I had time to champion Martina in detail I would. Basically, forget Federer, Laver, Graf and every other tennis player you've heard of - she was the greatest tennis player ever.

9 (count 'em) Wimbledons
4 US Opens
3 Aus Opens
2 French Opens

Plus 31(!) Grand slam womens doubles titles
10 Grand Slam mixed doubles titles - the final one coming 32 years after the first!

She had everything :-
Athleticism, talent, longevity (won Wimby in 1978, made the final in 1994), mental strength. Absolutely everything that makes a true, peerless sporting great.

Stella wrote:

I had to Googel Harry Greb. In wiki, it mentioned him being voted the 7th best fighter of all time. This being the case, it would be a no in any GOAT round.

Greb was an incredible fighter with a resume matched by few. The problem is, there is no footage of him and we rely on reports of his ring exploits written along time ago. Fortunately, we have footage of people he has defeated to use a yardstick as to how good he was. Boxing fans hold him in high esteem and there is no doubt he is an ATG in his sport.

Having said that, he is not the greatest fighter ever and doesn't deserve to the GOAT for the purposes of this thread.

I will be voting for Bradman. He is clearly without equal in his field and that really was an excellent write up, Fists.

super_realist wrote:Stella, Bradman retired in 1949, so can he really be compared when his peers were a bunch of de-mobbed soldiers? Having him would be a bit like having Joe Davis, Byron Nelson or Stanley Matthews

No doubt he was an outstanding cricketer, as was WG Grace, but Bradman's time was way too long ago to be compared to the modern truly professional era.

He was WAY ahead of anyone then and still is. Of course comparing era's is impossible but if we don't then are you saying we should be voting for a GOAT from say 1980 onwards?

btw
Matthews IMO was the most overrated Footballer of all time.

Greb for me is one of the top four fighters of all time and as such deserves to be in this conversation. However as Tina has said is hard to see past Bradman in this one, tough draw for the windmill.

A bit annoyed nobody's written anything for Martina in particular. I'd happily have done one, but don't have time now

Will be a difficult choice between her and the Don.

Even with cricket being by far my main sport, I actually have concerns about Bradman.

Of course he is way ahead, but in terms of people who are going to be discussed, his career must go back further in time than anyone else and that takes a bit of a gloss off his achievements for me.

I don't doubt he's the undisputed Cricket GOAT, however I think the time when the Open Era in Tennis arrived is a good cut off time for when professional sport started to become more serious in terms of a legitimate career, but also how it ranks in public consciousness.

Bradman's record is unsurpassed, but compared to modern sport, was undoubtedly against far poorer opposition than he would face these days. Just an opinion.

Navratilova has won Slams over 4 decades. In terms of achievements, she is streets ahead of anyone in this poll.

Is Martina the best Tennis player ever? Not close.

super

Not sure Bradman played against far poorer opposition but we will never know.

Is Martina the best Tennis player ever? Not close.

What a ludicrous statement.

Federer and Graff are nowhere near her! They are not even close in achievements or longevity!

Stella wrote:Is Martina the best Tennis player ever? Not close.

Yes she is - definitely. You could argue that the men's greatest player (whoever that may be) is equal to the women's, but she is by some way the greatest female player.

Rowley wrote:Greb for me is one of the top four fighters of all time and as such deserves to be in this conversation. However as Tina has said is hard to see past Bradman in this one, tough draw for the windmill.

Aye Jeff, couldn't have been a worse draw for him. Even if the dearly missed Windy was around I doubt even he could have made a persuasive enough case for Harry coming through this one.

Even with my extremely limited knowledge of tennis and footy, I can appreciate how good Navratilova and Zidane were, even before Bradman gets discussed!

legendkillarV2 wrote:

Is Martina the best Tennis player ever? Not close.

What a ludicrous statement.

Federer and Graff are nowhere near her! They are not even close in achievements or longevity!

Sorry but a top male tennis player is better than she ever was. You may think that sounds sexist but it's the truth.

Anyhow, Graf lays claim to be the best female player.

JuliusHMarx wrote:

Stella wrote:Is Martina the best Tennis player ever? Not close.

Yes she is - definitely. You could argue that the men's greatest player (whoever that may be) is equal to the women's, but she is by some way the greatest female player.

Exactly.

There is a biography of Greb in the boxing vault written by Beer if you wish to use that in the OP, MtotheC.

Difficult choice, personally I don't really enjoy cricket ao struggle to see the finer intracacies of the game.

More reading required on Navratilova is required.

Leaning towards Greb just due to his record.

Come on Bradman fans get on this,,

The true GOAT of the 4

Stella wrote:

legendkillarV2 wrote:

Is Martina the best Tennis player ever? Not close.

What a ludicrous statement.

Federer and Graff are nowhere near her! They are not even close in achievements or longevity!

Sorry but a top male tennis player is better than she ever was. You may think that sounds sexist but it's the truth.

Anyhow, Graf lays claim to be the best female player.

truth my arss!

"
Sorry but a top male tennis player is better than she ever was"


the truth however sexest it may sound!!!

Nail on head..

As Martina is the most successful tennis player of all-time and tennis is a globally popular sport then Martina gets my vote. Don Bradman is the greatest cricketing batsman of all-time but since cricket isn't as globally reaching as tennis then Martina has to win out.

legendkillarV2 wrote:

Stella wrote:

legendkillarV2 wrote:

Is Martina the best Tennis player ever? Not close.

What a ludicrous statement.

Federer and Graff are nowhere near her! They are not even close in achievements or longevity!

Sorry but a top male tennis player is better than she ever was. You may think that sounds sexist but it's the truth.

Anyhow, Graf lays claim to be the best female player.

truth my arss!

So, you reckon she would have won a slam if she played in men's tour?

As I dont really give a monkeys about doubles in terms of a tennis GOAT then Id probably have Graf ahead of Navratilova. Zidane was a fantastic player but Im not sure he'd make my all time top 5 footballers, maybe just about. Heard a lot about Greb but dont know enough about boxing from that era and woudl find it hard to compare his record to others....so has to be the Don for me. Sure it was a long time ago but the distance he was ahead of his peers makes it a no brainer for me.
Bit disapointing there are no write ups on here on 3 of the 4, there are so many articles on past fighters on the boxing board Im sure it would have been easy to cut and paste something about Greb for example. That way people who didnt know much about him or maybe boxing could have learned something.

Stella wrote:

legendkillarV2 wrote:

Stella wrote:

legendkillarV2 wrote:

Is Martina the best Tennis player ever? Not close.

What a ludicrous statement.

Federer and Graff are nowhere near her! They are not even close in achievements or longevity!

Sorry but a top male tennis player is better than she ever was. You may think that sounds sexist but it's the truth.

Anyhow, Graf lays claim to be the best female player.

truth my arss!

So, you reckon she would have won a slam if she played in men's tour?

Why does she need to? I don't see any male players winning on the WTA tour. So by that merit men can't claim to be dominant than women.

we are discussing the greatest sports person of all time diggs.. I agree with stella tbh.. I could have taken out Pavalova..

mystiroakey wrote:we are discussing the greatest sports person of all time diggs.. I agree with stella tbh.. I could have taken out Pavalova..

Youve lost me Mysti ?

Stella wrote:

legendkillarV2 wrote:

Is Martina the best Tennis player ever? Not close.

What a ludicrous statement.

Federer and Graff are nowhere near her! They are not even close in achievements or longevity!

Sorry but a top male tennis player is better than she ever was. You may think that sounds sexist but it's the truth.

Anyhow, Graf lays claim to be the best female player.

Obviously a top male tennis player will beat a top female player if they played against each other - but are you realy using that as a yardstick to measure the greatest tennis player, or any other athlete? i.e. can't possibly be a woman because they would lose a direct contest against a man? Might as well take all women out of this poll.

No idea what measure you're using to put Graf ahead of Navratilova.

legendkillarV2 wrote:

Stella wrote:

legendkillarV2 wrote:

Stella wrote:

legendkillarV2 wrote:

Is Martina the best Tennis player ever? Not close.

What a ludicrous statement.

Federer and Graff are nowhere near her! They are not even close in achievements or longevity!

Sorry but a top male tennis player is better than she ever was. You may think that sounds sexist but it's the truth.

Anyhow, Graf lays claim to be the best female player.

truth my arss!

So, you reckon she would have won a slam if she played in men's tour?

Why does she need to? I don't see any male players winning on the WTA tour. So by that merit men can't claim to be dominant than women.

Sorry, is it pedantic Wednesday?

Women have played men before and failed. I think Billie Jean beat a man, but this man wasn't that great from what I recall.

Again, this is going to sound bad but it's been proved women in general are not as fit, fast or as technically good as men when it comes to sport.

This being the case, Martina being the GOAT is a no no for me.

A case for Navratilova

Martina Navratilova was easily the best fast court player women's tennis has ever seen, and her record across all surfaces is only arguably equalled by Steffi Graf.

A left handed player who stayed faithful to her serve/volley style as women's tennis continued its inexorable progress to a baseline power game, she ended up with 9 Wimbledon titles in her 18 grand slam singles successes. Perhaps even more remarkable is her 31 ladies doubles and 10 mixed doubles GS titles, the last of which was won in 2006 with her approaching her 50th birthday.

Records held:
Most singles titles in the open era - 167
Most doubles titles - 177
Longest winning streak - 74 matches
Longest run of Slam titles - 6
Number of singles matches won (Open era) - 1442

The only very slight blemish on her record was her failure to do the calendar year grand slam, a feat achieved (with an Olympic Gold medal thrown in for good measure) by Graf in 92.

Navratilova's main career stretched from 1973 (turning pro in 1975) to 1993, but her prime really stretched from 1979 to 1988, when Graf took over as #1. Of her 18 Slams, only her first and last Wimbledons fall outside this decade.

Through most of her career, Navratilova's main rival was Chris Evert - in 80 matches they ended with a H2H of 43-37 in Navratilova's favour, but that only tells part of the story: up to the Wimbledon final of 1979 (match 34), Evert led the series 25-8 (and 4 of Navratilova's wins had come in their 8 meetings in 1978). From then on, which also marked an improved commitment to fitness by Navratilova, the series was very strongly in her favour.

In 1983, Navratilova's season record (in singles) was a quite staggering 86 wins and 1 defeat (at the French Open, where she was defending champion and where she won the following year). Indeed, over the three year period 1982 to 1984, Navratilova only lost 6 matches.

Arguably, she was an even better doubles player than singles - with Pam Shriver she won 109 consecutive matches including all four slam titles in 1984.

The best all-round tennis player ever? Almost definitely.
A worthy contender for GOAT? Undoubtedly.

Gets my vote this round? Sadly not, although would against almost anyone except The Don.

JuliusHMarx wrote:

Stella wrote:

legendkillarV2 wrote:

Is Martina the best Tennis player ever? Not close.

What a ludicrous statement.

Federer and Graff are nowhere near her! They are not even close in achievements or longevity!

Sorry but a top male tennis player is better than she ever was. You may think that sounds sexist but it's the truth.

Anyhow, Graf lays claim to be the best female player.

Obviously a top male tennis player will beat a top female player if they played against each other - but are you realy using that as a yardstick to measure the greatest tennis player, or any other athlete? i.e. can't possibly be a woman because they would lose a direct contest against a man? Might as well take all women out of this poll.

No idea what measure you're using to put Graf ahead of Navratilova.

More grandslams. TBH, they are pretty close and I won't disagree with anybody saying Martina was the better player.

Diggers wrote:As I dont really give a monkeys about doubles in terms of a tennis GOAT then Id probably have Graf ahead of Navratilova.

And if I didn't give a monkey's about boxing I'd put Tim Henman ahead of Muhammed Ali.

Tbh Tim henman is probally better than ali.

Stella wrote:

legendkillarV2 wrote:

Stella wrote:

legendkillarV2 wrote:

Stella wrote:

legendkillarV2 wrote:

Is Martina the best Tennis player ever? Not close.

What a ludicrous statement.

Federer and Graff are nowhere near her! They are not even close in achievements or longevity!

Sorry but a top male tennis player is better than she ever was. You may think that sounds sexist but it's the truth.

Anyhow, Graf lays claim to be the best female player.

truth my arss!

So, you reckon she would have won a slam if she played in men's tour?

Why does she need to? I don't see any male players winning on the WTA tour. So by that merit men can't claim to be dominant than women.

Sorry, is it pedantic Wednesday?

Women have played men before and failed. I think Billie Jean beat a man, but this man wasn't that great from what I recall.

Again, this is going to sound bad but it's been proved women in general are not as fit, fast or as technically good as men when it comes to sport.

This being the case, Martina being the GOAT is a no no for me.

Why is it sexist Wednesday?

Navratilova's records outstrip anyone that has lifted a racquet. The whole battle of the sexes was an exhibition event.

More singles slams and the calendar grad slam for Graf. Id also argue that further into the Open era and the professional game there was a greater depth of talent for Graf to play against, though Martina had Evert to contend with.

Diggers wrote:More singles slams and the calendar grad slam for Graf. Id also argue that further into the Open era and the professional game there was a greater depth of talent for Graf to play against, though Martina had Evert to contend with.

Martina played in the Open Era.

So who is the talent that Graf played against?

JuliusHMarx wrote:

Diggers wrote:As I dont really give a monkeys about doubles in terms of a tennis GOAT then Id probably have Graf ahead of Navratilova.

And if I didn't give a monkey's about boxing I'd put Tim Henman ahead of Muhammed Ali.

Odd thing to say. Care to explain ?

Navatolova bakes a good pavollova , but never as fit as kournakova!!

That kournakova gets my vote..

Dont mind me i have gone a bit nuts...

legendkillarV2 wrote:

Stella wrote:

legendkillarV2 wrote:

Stella wrote:

legendkillarV2 wrote:

Stella wrote:

legendkillarV2 wrote:

Is Martina the best Tennis player ever? Not close.

What a ludicrous statement.

Federer and Graff are nowhere near her! They are not even close in achievements or longevity!

Sorry but a top male tennis player is better than she ever was. You may think that sounds sexist but it's the truth.

Anyhow, Graf lays claim to be the best female player.

truth my arss!

So, you reckon she would have won a slam if she played in men's tour?

Why does she need to? I don't see any male players winning on the WTA tour. So by that merit men can't claim to be dominant than women.

Sorry, is it pedantic Wednesday?

Women have played men before and failed. I think Billie Jean beat a man, but this man wasn't that great from what I recall.

Again, this is going to sound bad but it's been proved women in general are not as fit, fast or as technically good as men when it comes to sport.

This being the case, Martina being the GOAT is a no no for me.

Why is it sexist Wednesday?

Navratilova's records outstrip anyone that has lifted a racquet. The whole battle of the sexes was an exhibition event.

No, is is politically correct Wednesday?

I'm sorry but IMO a player who cannot lay claim to be the best at what they do cannot be the GOAT. Martina was arguably the best Women's player ever but that it.

legendkillarV2 wrote:

Diggers wrote:More singles slams and the calendar grad slam for Graf. Id also argue that further into the Open era and the professional game there was a greater depth of talent for Graf to play against, though Martina had Evert to contend with.

Martina played in the Open Era.

So who is the talent that Graf played against?

I said depth of talent, do you want me to list the merits of every single woman who played in Navratilovas ere compared to Grafs ?

the fact that graf is younger by 13 or so years tells me that yes. Diggs is probally right. Depth of talent has certainly increased through the time line..

My main argument for why i would pick woods over nicklaus(just)

Perpetual failure vs the greatest fighter ever who did all f his work well past his best in a more exhausting and damaging sport? thats utter Love sacks

Diggers wrote:

legendkillarV2 wrote:

Diggers wrote:More singles slams and the calendar grad slam for Graf. Id also argue that further into the Open era and the professional game there was a greater depth of talent for Graf to play against, though Martina had Evert to contend with.

Martina played in the Open Era.

So who is the talent that Graf played against?

I said depth of talent, do you want me to list the merits of every single woman who played in Navratilovas ere compared to Grafs ?

Why yes. Being a tennis fan I like to challenge the un-informed comments and see just how you quantify talent because you couldn't even name a top player that Graf faced while making your comment.

Diggers wrote:

Bit disapointing there are no write ups on here on 3 of the 4, there are so many articles on past fighters on the boxing board Im sure it would have been easy to cut and paste something about Greb for example. That way people who didnt know much about him or maybe boxing could have learned something.

Strongly agree. Both Harry Greb and our own much missed Windy deserved better.

My own vote goes to The Don. An excellent write up by Fists and an extremely strong contender for the ultimate GOAT.

Zidane at his peak could have got a game for Woking FC but was never anywhere near the world's best.

Navratilova could hold a racquet and won a few matches but her legacy is drab and uninspiring. None of the excitement and enjoyment associated with yesterday's candidate Borg.

Offcourse that reasoning could go against the DON. However with an average of double everyone elses. That outweighs the later talenty pools

mystiroakey wrote:My main argument for why i would pick woods over nicklaus(just)

Me to. Plus Woods made the game more popular with us youngsters

Jack may have but hey, I don't know.