Well Done Howler

First topic message reminder :

Thats right I am congratulating Howley on the team picked for the weekend, I have slated his selection policy in the past and still not totally convinced by him as the right man for the job but credit where credit is due I think he's got it right this time.

For me:

James should have always started and will strengthen our scrum.

Harsh on Coombs I know but AWJ is a world class player

Warburton over Tipuric is the closest of all calls but I never thought Howley had the minerals to make the big calls. I honestly thought he would have recalled him for the Italy game and give him the captaincy back but fair play he didn't and to pick him this weekend but leave captaincy with Ryan is another big (and correct) call.

Few seasons back we seen Ryan himself in the same boat being picked whilst out of form becasue he was captain and thats what was happening to Sam, now he has been picked and can just concentrate on his game and not worry about the captaincy.

doddieman wrote:The tips/warbs change is the 1st non injury related change he's made I think. Could.be a brave, clever move. But nothing will really change until they change tactics, and that wont happen will it.

I read this by Gwyn Jones

Justin Tipuric so unlucky to miss out against Scotland

ROB HOWLEY has decided to do the opposite of what he did following the win in France – he’s changed a winning side.

The circumstances are different, but nonetheless this is just as bold a decision as the one taken in the aftermath of the victory in Paris, when Howley announced a week early he was sticking with his victorious XV for the game in Rome.

The injury to Gethin Jenkins has forced one change for Saturday’s clash with Scotland at Murrayfield, yet Paul James’ inclusion may well increase the power of the scrum.

Jenkins was getting back to his impressive self in the loose in Rome before his calf went again, but this was an easy decision for Howley to arrive at.

I completely understand why Alun Wyn Jones has also returned to the starting XV. Jones played out in Muster last Saturday and, although blowing hard for most of the second half, he is a proven international class lock and should be back in the team.

This is terribly sad for Andrew Coombs, whose fairytale 2013 may have come to an end. But what a story it was.

He played so well in his first two matches that he has probably altered the perceived wisdom regarding the path players can take before arriving at the highest level.

Coombs will be the inspiration to every one of those slogging their guts out in the Principality Premiership.

He is an example of what is possible if you are hungry, train hard and have that massive moment of luck.

If the pace of Saturday’s game is high, as it often is in these Scotland verses Wales matches, then Coombs will probably supplement his well-deserved three caps and who knows, there could be another twist to this warming tale.

The only real contentious issue in this team selection therefore is the inclusion of Sam Warburton at Justin Tipuric’s expense.


I’m so sorry for Tipuric who has done nothing wrong.

There are several arguments that surround the issue of who should be Wales’ number seven.

Clearly Warburton and Tipuric are each outstanding rugby players and interestingly the pre-Six Nations suggestion of playing them together in the same back-row seems to have lost strength.

This is undoubtedly due to the influence of Ryan Jones on the blindside forcing the management to pick between the two opensides.

Howley has suggested that it was the physical threat posed by the Scottish back-row that tipped the scales in Warburton’s favour.

Fair enough. If the coach wants a more robust flanker against that sort of opposition then I accept his reasoning.

However, if I were Tipuric, I would be worried that if the power of the Scottish back-row can affect my selection, then who exactly am I likely to play against?

With due respect to the Scotland back row, most of the decent teams in world rugby have a breakaway trio at least as strong, and in most cases a significantly better threesome than Scotland.

Indeed, if it were horses for courses, then the Scotland match is precisely the game in which to play Tipuric.

Traditionally, it is the most open and loose encounter in the Championship and in such a game Tipuric would be more effective than Warburton.

I think ultimately the coaching team believe that at the moment Warburton has the edge on Tipuric regardless of the opposition. They have seen up close what Warburton has done at the very highest level, something that Tipuric hasn’t quite matched as yet.

Where I do agree with the Welsh coaches is that Wales have the finest genuine opensides in the tournament – in fact they have the only genuine opensides in the tournament.

I hope they are not going out of fashion, but one look at the players selected in the southern hemisphere soon revives my anxiety.

The other eyebrow-raising moment in selection was that of retaining Ryan Jones as captain.

But, on reflection, how could you do anything else?

He has been magnificent once again in his role and has confirmed his status as the finest leader of his generation in Wales.

Finally, I can only sympathise with the exploits of Jamie Roberts over the coming days.

He is sitting his final medical exams during the Six Nations and, having done those two things at separate times in my career, I cannot imagine trying to juggle two of the most nerve racking and exhausting experiences possible.

Jamie, if you’re struggling, here’s a tip to get you through this stressful time. Head down, keep ploughing forward and remember the knee bone’s connected to the thigh bone...

Good luck mate.

By the way, Wales to win by 10 points.

rainbow-warrior wrote:

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:

Jimpy wrote:

rainbow-warrior wrote:
Tedious petty insult to another poster removed

Retaliatory childish insult to another poster removed

Grow up the pair of you

Aw bless seems as if Pete is focused on just a few petty posters but leaves his mates alone ...good for you pete.

If you don't like it you can always find some place else to post snide asides and half-witted insults which account for the majority of your posts

Jimpy wrote:

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:

Jimpy wrote:

rainbow-warrior wrote:
Tedious petty insult to another poster removed

Retaliatory childish insult to another poster removed

Grow up the pair of you

Surely, if there weren't tedious petty insults to other posters in the first place, there would be no need for retaliatory childish insults to that poster required....?

Just saying.

I removed it when I saw it. And quite frankly the fact that you think that retaliatory childish insults are ever "required" say a lot.
You're capable of better.

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:

Jimpy wrote:

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:

Jimpy wrote:

rainbow-warrior wrote:
Tedious petty insult to another poster removed

Retaliatory childish insult to another poster removed

Grow up the pair of you

Surely, if there weren't tedious petty insults to other posters in the first place, there would be no need for retaliatory childish insults to that poster required....?

Just saying.

I removed it when I saw it. And quite frankly the fact that you think that retaliatory childish insults are ever "required" say a lot.
You're capable of better.

I know.... i'm off before this thread is derailed

bedfordwelsh wrote:
Few seasons back we seen Ryan himself in the same boat being picked whilst out of form becasue he was captain and thats what was happening to Sam, now he has been picked and can just concentrate on his game and not worry about the captaincy.

This is a point raised in Gwyn Jones piece too.

Though surely Ryan's riding the wave of a winning Wales, not desperately seeking answers as to why Wales narrowly lost most of the infamous eight tests on the bounce.

A change of leadership has done Wales well, hopefully making Warburton a better player for it, as well as rejuvenating our hopes of retaining the championship.

Heard Holwer on the news yesterday discussing Warburton...

Is it me or is he developing a severe speech impediment. His R's are turning to W's, he is constantly stopping mid sentence, and he seems to have to think about every line before he says it!!!

Is he having an extended stroke? Or is the pressure getting to him and he is verynervous in public now!

RE selection, James was forced, AWJ over |Coombs was always going to happen and Warburton is back in based on no evidence at all... same old same old!!

thebluesmancometh wrote:Heard Holwer on the news yesterday discussing Warburton...

Is it me or is he developing a severe speech impediment. His R's are turning to W's, he is constantly stopping mid sentence, and he seems to have to think about every line before he says it!!!

Is he having an extended stroke? Or is the pressure getting to him and he is verynervous in public now!

RE selection, James was forced, AWJ over |Coombs was always going to happen and Warburton is back in based on no evidence at all... same old same old!!

Howley has always spoken like that.

Regarding your thoughts on the team, the general perspective seems to be differently inclined.

I'm not talking the team as a whole, I'm making the point that Howley has a tendancy to back names rather than form...

Jenkins over James initially was a joke, but now Jenkins is unfit the change is forced. How do you give credit to Howler for a forced change?

AWJ is playing ok at club level but hasn't got any game time at int yet, but will replace a kid who's done absolutely nothing wrong, and is playing well in a winning team. Howler makes the call for name over form.

Warbs didn't play for the Blues, because apparently he wasn't fit enough, but 7 days later is fit enough for int duty??? Once again Warbs has been picked on name rather than form.

Keeping Jones as captain is merely an attempt to get Warburton back to form, but Warburton shouldn't be in the side in the first place. Last week Navidi once again as he has all season played well, scored a try and has shown far more than Warburton has since returning from injuryy.

Jonathan Thomas played better than Alun Wyn did against Munster, but they haven't brought him into the side.

I just shuddered.

thebluesmancometh wrote:I'm not talking the team as a whole, I'm making the point that Howley has a tendancy to back names rather than form...

Jenkins over James initially was a joke, but now Jenkins is unfit the change is forced. How do you give credit to Howler for a forced change?

AWJ is playing ok at club level but hasn't got any game time at int yet, but will replace a kid who's done absolutely nothing wrong, and is playing well in a winning team. Howler makes the call for name over form.

Warbs didn't play for the Blues, because apparently he wasn't fit enough, but 7 days later is fit enough for int duty??? Once again Warbs has been picked on name rather than form.

Keeping Jones as captain is merely an attempt to get Warburton back to form, but Warburton shouldn't be in the side in the first place. Last week Navidi once again as he has all season played well, scored a try and has shown far more than Warburton has since returning from injuryy.

Jenkins was superb against France and ireland and James would not have got in if Jenkins had of been fit.

Your other points make a strong argument, but you must surely be able to see good reasoning for the players that have been promoted. Tipuric didn't do anything wrong but he didn't set the world alight either.

thebluesmancometh wrote:Heard Holwer on the news yesterday discussing Warburton...

Is it me or is he developing a severe speech impediment. His R's are turning to W's, he is constantly stopping mid sentence, and he seems to have to think about every line before he says it!!!

Is he having an extended stroke? Or is the pressure getting to him and he is verynervous in public now!

RE selection, James was forced, AWJ over |Coombs was always going to happen and Warburton is back in based on no evidence at all... same old same old!!

Good observation. It's a recent development and probably a sign that he's taken some sort of presentation skills course - of the type that were popular in the late 1990s (people wanting to 'Present Like Blair'). Roger Lewis (a product of 1990s Management Schools) talks the exact same way - all mid-sentence pauses, glottal stops and waving the hands.

The advantage is that it gives you time to think about your responses. If you're intelligent it can look very polished (Barack Obama).

Downside is that if you're a bit thick it can make you sound like an idiot.

Maes is right about him being unable to pronounce his 'R's - he's always done that.

He always got wibbed for it.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:He always got wibbed for it.

Wemember when Gwaham Henwy dwopped him? That was funny too.

He's always struggled with 'r's' but it seems to be getting worse.

He is clearly struggling in front of the media.

Regarding Jenkins... At what point v Ireland was he excellent, he was domolished in the scrum, and had a big half against France!!! He is in no way fit and firing for international rugby!!!

I understand the AWJ to an extent, he made a great cameo 20 mins, then went ok v Munster and Howler will be desperate for locks to return, but Coombs has done nothing wrong, and considering he is still a bit underpowered he is playing exceptionally well.

The Warbs decision is just another bad joke, Tipuric was excellent for 6 months, then one tight arm wrestle and he's demoted behind a guy who has offered little for anyone since the world cup!!

thebluesmancometh wrote:He's always struggled with 'r's' but it seems to be getting worse.

He is clearly struggling in front of the media.

Regarding Jenkins... At what point v Ireland was he excellent, he was domolished in the scrum, and had a big half against France!!! He is in no way fit and firing for international rugby!!!

I understand the AWJ to an extent, he made a great cameo 20 mins, then went ok v Munster and Howler will be desperate for locks to return, but Coombs has done nothing wrong, and considering he is still a bit underpowered he is playing exceptionally well.

The Warbs decision is just another bad joke, Tipuric was excellent for 6 months, then one tight arm wrestle and he's demoted behind a guy who has offered little for anyone since the world cup!!

Tips has always looked more impressive when brought on as the game is loosening up. Sam just doesn't have the same impact from the bench. Unfortunately for Tips when he starts he is always removed at the very stage when he might be most effective, as replacements in the modern are made st predetermined points in the game regardless of whether it is either a correct or appropriate tactical move. Brainless

dragonbreath wrote:Tips has always looked more impressive when brought on as the game is loosening up. Sam just doesn't have the same impact from the bench. Unfortunately for Tips when he starts he is always removed at the very stage when he might be most effective, as replacements in the modern are made st predetermined points in the game regardless of whether it is either a correct or appropriate tactical move. Brainless

Agreed.

Ye I hate the 60th minute switch, especially when players are brought off just as their strengths are starting to show. Players don't tire like they used to, and I know subs aren't about players tiring but performance level but it's just non sensical to do it with players such as 7's!!!

A Jon Hayes type I could understand, but a back rower in this day and age??

although I'm a massive fan of tips - don't be surprised if Sam cracks on and has the game of his life to prove the doubters wrong. He hasn't become a bad player overnight and i think now the shackles are off he will be chomping at the bit to put in a good performance. i expect big things from SW against the scots!

tatterd wrote:although I'm a massive fan of tips - don't be surprised if Sam cracks on and has the game of his life to prove the doubters wrong. He hasn't become a bad player overnight and i think now the shackles are off he will be chomping at the bit to put in a good performance. i expect big things from SW against the scots!

well he needs to, since the RWC semi his capital has been on the wane and now he is lost the captaincy, lost any chance of being Lions capt and perhaps even touring, and is arguably not best choice in his position. If he does not perfrom without the pressure of captaincy i say get him off at half time and let Tipuric loose

you heard it here first beefy!

I'm with beefy, he hasn't become a bad player over night, but he's become a liability over 18 months

Tipuric look immense when entering the frey as a sub, but hasn't had the same impact (in the extremely few games he managed to start) as a starter, but it doesn't help being dragged off. 7's are notoriously fit, and Mccaw just got better as games went on, as a lot of opensides do.

I'm not sure about the changes myself I thought Gethin was amazing against Italy his scrumaging was incredible.

Warburton for Tips I don't like though I see the logic, We need more power to overwhelm Scotland and maybe bring on Tipuric when the game breaks up, or if Scotland are taking risks and playing catch up rugby.

I feel sorry for Coombs he didnt deserve the drop, truth be told if of kept him in and brought on AWJ later on to let Scotland know what fire power we had off the bench.

Firepower off the bench is exactly what Scotland are missing IMHO, a strong bench with the likes of AWj and co wouldve really made a difference!

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:

rainbow-warrior wrote:

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:

Jimpy wrote:

rainbow-warrior wrote:
Tedious petty insult to another poster removed

Retaliatory childish insult to another poster removed

Grow up the pair of you

Aw bless seems as if Pete is focused on just a few petty posters but leaves his mates alone ...good for you pete.

If you don't like it you can always find some place else to post snide asides and half-witted insults which account for the majority of your posts

A kiwi with more power than John Key. Let me tell you something before you start getting more personal against me pal. You are here to moderate so it is wise to possibly keep your insults to yourself less your true colours emerge. I have placed and had decent debate here, I react to idiots who continue and insult my country, do you find this wrong coming from NZ??

Is this still dragging on? Spoiling a perfectly readable thread about Robert Howley's speech impediment.

Where's the French Secret Service when you need them?

Sshhhh rainbow-warrior. Pete is a good poster as well as being a fab moderator.

rainbow-warrior wrote:

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:

rainbow-warrior wrote:

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:

Jimpy wrote:

rainbow-warrior wrote:
Tedious petty insult to another poster removed

Retaliatory childish insult to another poster removed

Grow up the pair of you

Aw bless seems as if Pete is focused on just a few petty posters but leaves his mates alone ...good for you pete.

If you don't like it you can always find some place else to post snide asides and half-witted insults which account for the majority of your posts

A kiwi with more power than John Key. Let me tell you something before you start getting more personal against me pal. You are here to moderate so it is wise to possibly keep your insults to yourself less your true colours emerge. I have placed and had decent debate here, I react to idiots who continue and insult my country, do you find this wrong coming from NZ??

There is no 'moderation' of this site, there are posters who wield the red pen when it suits. This is a classic example of a 'moderator' getting involved himself in the very thing he claims to be here to prevent. Moderators do not post on the threads they are moderating on most sites so why shoudl they here...it just means that they enter into cliques, have favourites who get away with murder and mark out other people as WUMS and often perpetuate and exacerbate problems. It is enetirely subjective for that reason and fundamentally flawed. An di fyou have an opinion on the subject you get threatened with summary banning or the censorious red pen comes out.

Opinions are one thing, insults another.

I doubt that many of the 'insulting types' would be as free with their words if meeting face to face with those they choose to insult. Instead of posting inflamatory comments from behind the anonimity of a computer/smart phone.

This has been a good read for the most part based on the views of those posters who seem to know about the game, and the merits of the players being discussed.

A complete contrast to those who just want to start, and perpetuate, an argument.

I hope we can all enjoy the rest of the Championship.....in peace.

Hound_of_Harrow wrote:Opinions are one thing, insults another.

I doubt that many of the 'insulting types' would be as free with their words if meeting face to face with those they choose to insult. Instead of posting inflamatory comments from behind the anonimity of a computer/smart phone.

This has been a good read for the most part based on the views of those posters who seem to know about the game, and the merits of the players being discussed.

A complete contrast to those who just want to start, and perpetuate, an argument.

I hope we can all enjoy the rest of the Championship.....in peace.

How I agree, I am a big boy I don't hide by the way:)

Go the start of this thread which indeed is a good one and see the one liners from jimpy he posts to goad and as I can take most of his inane comments I do not see why he should repeatedly return to the 'I hate Wales' there each time. I reacted as I would in real life:) Nuff said apologies to the OP and his thread. I love Mr Howley by the way he is doing a cracking job.

I'm not sure how the perfectly valid opinion that AWJ is not World class requires more than a one liner to be honest... or indeed how it is anti-Wales.

I'll leave you to your opinions, please leave me to mine.

Can we change the name of this thread to...

Well done Jimpy/Rainbow?

In my experience Jimpy seems keen to turn most threads into a dig at the Welsh. I wonder if he'll be back on these boards to eat some humble pie in the (albeit extremely unlikely) event that Wales beat England next week? or will he crawl under a rock somwhere and weep............

Howley is a visionary.

England used 10 man rugby in 03, but Howley has invented a new 10+halfpenny style. Changes for next week are Shingler and Tipuric on the wings and Coombs and Owens in the centre.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Howley is a visionary.

England used 10 man rugby in 03, but Howley has invented a new 10+halfpenny style. Changes for next week are Shingler and Tipuric on the wings and Coombs and Owens in the centre.

Which 10 men? 15 of their 18 tries in the 03 6Ns game from backs.

Meh, maybe wrong choice of year (maybe even pre professional argentina or italy would have been better) but the point or his ignorance of the backs still stands.

Ss

Please don't make reference to England not being a champagne rugby team since forever, LT gets upset!

Nah, just when you have a fact, why not use it

Oh, and at times we have been so dire, i have to cling to the times when we were not.

LondonTiger wrote:Nah, just when you have a fact, why not use it

Interesting fact Wales have just set their own record for 6Ns away wins on the trot, however also broke their own record for losses on the bounce at home against Ireland earlier inthe tournament.

dragonbreath wrote:

thebluesmancometh wrote:He's always struggled with 'r's' but it seems to be getting worse.

He is clearly struggling in front of the media.

Regarding Jenkins... At what point v Ireland was he excellent, he was domolished in the scrum, and had a big half against France!!! He is in no way fit and firing for international rugby!!!

I understand the AWJ to an extent, he made a great cameo 20 mins, then went ok v Munster and Howler will be desperate for locks to return, but Coombs has done nothing wrong, and considering he is still a bit underpowered he is playing exceptionally well.

The Warbs decision is just another bad joke, Tipuric was excellent for 6 months, then one tight arm wrestle and he's demoted behind a guy who has offered little for anyone since the world cup!!

Tips has always looked more impressive when brought on as the game is loosening up. Sam just doesn't have the same impact from the bench. Unfortunately for Tips when he starts he is always removed at the very stage when he might be most effective, as replacements in the modern are made st predetermined points in the game regardless of whether it is either a correct or appropriate tactical move. Brainless

100%beefy wrote:

tatterd wrote:although I'm a massive fan of tips - don't be surprised if Sam cracks on and has the game of his life to prove the doubters wrong. He hasn't become a bad player overnight and i think now the shackles are off he will be chomping at the bit to put in a good performance. i expect big things from SW against the scots!

well he needs to, since the RWC semi his capital has been on the wane and now he is lost the captaincy, lost any chance of being Lions capt and perhaps even touring, and is arguably not best choice in his position. If he does not perfrom without the pressure of captaincy i say get him off at half time and let Tipuric loose

Post match what do you think of the performances and selections?

I think Howley made an astute call on both AWJ and Warburton.

The interesting factor this weekend will again be around Ryan Jones and the captaincy.

If Jones is fit then he has to start and will he keep the skippers armband?

If he isn't will Holwey go with Tips and Warbs and again will he give armbandf back to Warburton or has has been suggested someone (AWJ) allowing Warburton again the chance to concentrate on his game.

I like the AWJ idea, he is a great captain for the ospreys.