Welsh Regions Signings/Departures/Rumours 2013 (Scarlets set to offer James "cub" Davies a contract)

by pioden gorllewin Fri Mar 08, 2013 10:12 am

First topic message reminder :

Ospreys

In

Tito Tebaldi (Zebra) – Confirmed
Rhodri Williams (Scarlets) - Rumour

Out

Kahn Fotuali'i (Northampton Saints) - Confirmed
Jonathan Thomas (Bayonne/Worcester Warriors) - Rumour
Jonathan Humphries (Scotland Forwards Coach) - Confirmed
Campbell Johnstone ( Russian Club) - Confirmed
George Stowers (Tasman) - Confirmed

Scarlets

In

Steven Shingler ( London Irish) –Confirmed
Ed Jackson (London Welsh ) – Rumour
Andrew Coombes (Dragons) - Rumour
Gareth Delve ( Melbourne Rebels) - Rumour
Serge Lilo (Wellington Lions) - Rumour
John Barclay (Glasgow Warriors) - Confirmed
Nick Cummins (Western Force) - Rumour
Farid Sid (Perpignan)- Rumour
Opeti Fonua (Agen) - Rumour
Brett Deacon (Leicester Tigers) - Rumour
Regan King (Backs/Skills Coach) - Rumour
Genesis Mamea (Wellington) - Rumour
Darran Harris (Pontypridd) - Rumour

Out

Tomas vallejos cinalli (Pampas XV) – Confirmed
Gareth Maule (London Irish/Munster) – Rumour
Adam Warren (Cardiff)- Rumour
Scott Williams (Cardiff) – Rumour
Sione Timani (Agen) – Confirmed
Rhodri Williams (Ospreys) – Rumour
Tavis Knoyle ( Gloucester) – Confirmed
Gareth Davies ( Cardiff) –Rumour
Owen Williams (Leicester Tigers) – Confirmed
Jonathan Edwards (Released) – Confirmed
Andy Fenby (London Irish) - confirmed
Morgan Stoddart (Retired) - Confirmed
Dan Newton (London Scottish) - Confirmed
Kieron Murphy (London Welsh/Edingburgh) - Rumour
George North ( Northampton Saints)- Confirmed
Rheon James (Cornish Pirates)- Confirmed
Richie Pugh (Released) -Confirmed
Rhys Jones (Released) - RumourConfirmed
Dale Ford (Released/Bristol) - Confirmed
Samson Lee (Glouceste) - Rumour
Peter Edwards (Released) -Confirmed
Craig Hawkins (Released) - Confirmed
Craig Price (Leicester Tigers) -Rumour

Dragons

In

Ross Wardle (Bedwas) - Confirmed
Richie Rees (Edinburgh) - Confirmed
Luciano Orquera (Zebre) -Rumour
Martin Muller (Cheetahs) - Confirmed
Juan Gomez (Pampas XV) - Rumour
Netani Talei (Edingburgh) - Confirmed
Francisco Chaparro (Stade Francias) - Confirmed
Kris Burton (Treviso) - Confirmed
Rhys Thomas (Wasps)- Confirmed
Malakai Fekitoa (Auckland) - Rumour

Out

Andrew Coombes (Scarlets) – Rumour
Dan Lydiate (Racing Metro)- Confirmed
Steve Jones (Retired)- Confirmed
Tom Brown (Released/Jersey) - Confirmed
Tondi Chavhanga (Released) - Confirmed
Iestyn Thomas (Retired) - Confirmed
Josh Tyler (Released) - Confirmed
Hywel Stoddart (Released) - Confirmed

Blues

In

Filo Paulo (North Harbour) - confirmed
Matthew Rees (Scarlets) Confirmed
Liam Davies (confirmed - until end of season)
Gethin Jenkins (Toulon) - Confirmed
Rhys Gill (Saracens) - rumoured
Adam Warren (Scarlets) - rumoured
Scott Williams –(Scarlets) – rumoured
Tavis Knoyle (Scarlets) – rumour
Gareth Davies ( Scarlets) - rumour

Out

Jamie Roberts (Racing Metro) - not confirmed
Tom James (Exeter Chiefs) -confirmed
Richard Mustoe (retirement) -confirmed
Fau Filise - (retirement) rumour
Ceri Sweeney (Exeter Chiefs) - Confirmed
Leigh Halfpenny (Clermont) - Rumour
Michael Paterson (Sale Sharks) - Confirmed
Campese Ma'afu (Nottingham) -Confirmed

by wales606 Wed Apr 17, 2013 7:08 pm

LordDowlais wrote:I thought T Rhys Thomas was forced to retire because of injury.

Haven't heard that. He has played for Wasps for most of the season although I notice he is out at the moment.

by LordDowlais Wed Apr 17, 2013 7:11 pm

I must have dreamt it. Whistle

by LordDowlais Wed Apr 17, 2013 7:12 pm

Its a good signing for the Dragons though if they get him, and Stone Motif is right, I will be a lot happier.

by thebluesmancometh Wed Apr 17, 2013 7:20 pm

Cummins is the Western Force curly haired winger who came up with Oz ye? Was excellent in super rugby last season, and didn't he just do a Perth promotional for the lions on total rugby???

If it's that guy I would be amazed, he's thought very highly of, and is still in his early twenties ish isn't he?!

Speaking to Delves dad in tesco a few days ago (st mellons) and he knows nothing of Delve coming home, still got 2 years on his contract hasn't he? (my question not his, didn't speak long, just a quick hello)

TRThomas is a good sign for the Dragons, not the strongest of Hookers but probably the best, most experienced and dedicated to a cause forward in his wage bracket, if thats true well done Dragons. Although I heard he was at Bristol too chatting about possibilities with Robinson.

by mikey_philVIII Wed Apr 17, 2013 7:42 pm

thebluesmancometh wrote:Cummins is the Western Force curly haired winger who came up with Oz ye? Was excellent in super rugby last season, and didn't he just do a Perth promotional for the lions on total rugby???

If it's that guy I would be amazed, he's thought very highly of, and is still in his early twenties ish isn't he?!

Speaking to Delves dad in tesco a few days ago (st mellons) and he knows nothing of Delve coming home, still got 2 years on his contract hasn't he? (my question not his, didn't speak long, just a quick hello)

TRThomas is a good sign for the Dragons, not the strongest of Hookers but probably the best, most experienced and dedicated to a cause forward in his wage bracket, if thats true well done Dragons. Although I heard he was at Bristol too chatting about possibilities with Robinson.

If you scroll up then you'll see I said just this, but with fewer words. Drew Mitchell is rumoured to be going to Leinster or a French team, which also helps Cummings chances of being an Aus regular.
Agree with you and others on TRT. He's just what Dragons needed. They should probably also drop Gus and give Price the chance instead. Gus is more of a back row forward...

by thebluesmancometh Wed Apr 17, 2013 7:47 pm

Nah Gus hasn't got the legs for back row anymore, he played there for Bedwas and was going well but his pro status was the main reason.

Lovely guy but can't help but think he is a nothing player any more, and can't see what he can do to turn his fortunes around.

Very good coach though!

by pioden gorllewin Wed Apr 17, 2013 9:58 pm

Stone Motif wrote:Western Fail are reporting that T Rhys Thomas is on his way to the Men of Gwent to fill the spot of the great Jabba, who retired today (boo hoo). Lord D will be happy.

Thanks Stone I'll update thread now, also here's the link:

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/newport-gwent-dragons-set-sign-2731308

Blues : There has been definite contact with Delve about the possibility of coming to West Wales. Not sure how far down the road those negotiations are, but a few Scarlet supporters are confident we'll pull it off. Personally I'm not sure how successful we will be in obtaining him, we were outbid for the services of Talei. Thought Delve signed an extension to his last contract, but isn't it coming to an end? Something to do with visa restrictions in Australia?

Pretty sure we've made contact with Barclay too, he's a player I think we can realistically sign.

by Stone Motif Wed Apr 17, 2013 10:10 pm

pioden gorllewin wrote:Personally I'm not sure how successful we will be in obtaining him, we were outbid for the services of Talei.

Really? Interesting.

by thebluesmancometh Wed Apr 17, 2013 10:17 pm

pioden gorllewin wrote:
Stone Motif wrote:Western Fail are reporting that T Rhys Thomas is on his way to the Men of Gwent to fill the spot of the great Jabba, who retired today (boo hoo). Lord D will be happy.

Thanks Stone I'll update thread now, also here's the link:

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/newport-gwent-dragons-set-sign-2731308

Blues : There has been definite contact with Delve about the possibility of coming to West Wales. Not sure how far down the road those negotiations are, but a few Scarlet supporters are confident we'll pull it off. Personally I'm not sure how successful we will be in obtaining him, we were outbid for the services of Talei. Thought Delve signed an extension to his last contract, but isn't it coming to an end? Something to do with visa restrictions in Australia?

Pretty sure we've made contact with Barclay too, he's a player I think we can realistically sign.

Outbid by the Dragons??? How did that happen? You could teach the Dragons a valuable lesson, pick up Brown on the cheap then give him a fair crack...

Not heard anything about Delve having contact with a region, but you are right I think his visa is expiring soon and he will need to apply for dual nationality and obtain an Aus passport if I remember correctly.

Could be that he is playing cards close to his chest, he's out injured right now isn't he, but I personally would like to see him back in Wales, so very few people have seen what he's capable of!

by pioden gorllewin Thu Apr 18, 2013 8:21 am

yeah dragons offered better terms to talei than we could/wanted too.

know delve had a ridiculously big offer from japan prior to signing his extension with rebels. also there was the well documented move to Toulon and a few Aviva teams offering to pay for his flights to view their facilities . the only reason I can see him coming to the scarlets is to play in wales, and possible welsh selection. I know one of the factors about his next move will be his partner - she has sacrificed her personal career to support him. apparently delve wants to consider her career prospects too.

blues totally agree with you about brown. think he has the potential to be a very good rabo player. he's hungry to succeed, and knows what his job is. he is all about the hard yards. scarlets need a ball carrier to get them over the gainline (haven't had that since lyons & morgan left) i'd be happy if the scarlets took him on and placed him at one of the clubs within the region & told him to go out and earn a place in the regional 23 man matchday squad.

by Guest Thu Apr 18, 2013 8:32 am

wales606 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:I thought T Rhys Thomas was forced to retire because of injury.

Haven't heard that. He has played for Wasps for most of the season although I notice he is out at the moment.

Lord Dowlais, are you thinking of Gareth Williams, antoher Blues hooker, roced to retire a season or two ago?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/15137199

I watched T Rhys Thomas a in a few games this season in the cups and he looked good. Strong in the loose, decent lineout, etc. The sky commentators were raving about one game where he was smashing rucks and players like a man possessed. Good signing. I actually named him as one of the players I'd love the Dragons to entice home (along with the likes of Craig Mitchell, Nicky Robinson, Brew, etc.). Good that we've managed it.

by Luckless Pedestrian Thu Apr 18, 2013 8:47 am

I'm bemused by the reactions to our signings on here. Some are happy with the signings of Richie Rees and Rhys Thomas, who have won a few caps but never set the world on fire, but furious when we sign the likes of Kris Burton, who again has won a few caps but never really shone on the international stage. The only difference I can see is the nationalities of the players concerned. Welsh signings are made and it's fine; foreign signings are made and they're blocking the progress of home-grown talent. How does that work? Or is the 'blocking young Welsh talent' line a smokescreen for good old-fashioned xenophobia?

by TBJ9625 Thu Apr 18, 2013 10:02 am

Western Fail quote Gruff Rhys as saying that Bayonne are interested in Jon Thomas and they might let him go if he wants?
I like JT and would be sad to see him go

by pioden gorllewin Thu Apr 18, 2013 10:31 am

thanks TBJ i'll update thread now - here's the quote from walesonline:

"Meanwhile, versatile back-five forward Jonathan Thomas, a Six Nations Grand Slam winner in 2005 and 2008, is attracting interest from Mike Phillips’ French club Bayonne.

Great servant Thomas has another year left on his deal at the Liberty Stadium but the Ospreys might not stand in his way if he wanted a change of scene"

Luckless here's Edwards defence of the signings, it's interesting reading:

"There is a massive thought process gone into looking into these players," he said.

"We were quite clear on our strategy. We have an average age of 22. The team needed experience. We needed to put a spine of a team in there.

"Having experience around the young players on the field will help them learn.

"I have been criticised for bringing in an experienced 10, but I've got an 18-year-old centre alongside him and a 20-year-old No 9 on the inside.

"We have to win games here. That's what the sport is all about. And with Kris Burton we are probably buying another three or four wins.

"I am fully supportive of young Welsh players coming through, but, unfortunately, you've still got to win games of rugby. People who watch us and employ us want wins on the field."

Edwards also responded to Holley raising the question of why the Dragons didn't go for talented young Scarlets outside-half Owen Williams, who is moving to Leicester.

"Owen Williams wasn't on the open market," he explained. "He wasn't available.

"The first we ever heard of him was that he's signed for Leicester. I think he blindsided the Scarlets."

As for the recruitment of Cheetahs lock Muller and Stade Francais tight-head Chaparro, Edwards insists a lot of thought and research has gone into their signings.

"We spent 12 months watching Martin Muller, tracking him in every game, looking at all his skills," he said.

"He's on the fringe of the South African squad. I talked to two Springbok coaches who think he's the next best thing coming out of there. He's the most sought after second row in South Africa.

"He is going to qualify for Wales and hopefully they find someone who has the potential of playing for them.

"We spent a lot of time in recruiting him, as we have with the tight-head prop, which is the hardest position to recruit in world rugby.

"The Argentinian tight-head has played his rugby in France and played against Italy and France in Test match rugby. He's 23 years of age and very ambitious.

"These are not just random names. It's our job to look at these guys thoroughly. The justification that you've done your job properly is what we are looking for.

"We don't shop at the same table as the top teams. We can't afford that, so we are finding players who are on the cusp of making it. That's where hopefully we've got it right. These guys are ambitious and ready to get out there on the field and play rugby.

"The proof will be in the pudding."

by Luckless Pedestrian Thu Apr 18, 2013 10:44 am

It's hard to argue with Darren Edwards's explanations, Pioden - although I'm sure some will try.

by red_stag Thu Apr 18, 2013 11:02 am

Can't ask for more than that in terms of explanation.

by ScarletSpiderman Thu Apr 18, 2013 11:04 am

He is spot on, is pretty much having to be more like potential spotting than talent spotting that the regions have to do when signing nwqs. Regan King's a good example, a one cap all black who was failing to make the match day squad at Stade, I remember thinking that he had failure written all over him when he signed. I was proven wrong, maybe Chapero and Muller will prove their doubters wrong too.

by Guest Thu Apr 18, 2013 11:34 am

ScarletSpiderman wrote:He is spot on, is pretty much having to be more like potential spotting than talent spotting that the regions have to do when signing nwqs. Regan King's a good example, a one cap all black who was failing to make the match day squad at Stade, I remember thinking that he had failure written all over him when he signed. I was proven wrong, maybe Chapero and Muller will prove their doubters wrong too.

Exactly. Well put by Edwards - we're not shopping at the same shop as the top clubs. Therefore, we're not going to be able to sign the current international stars. We either need to go for ex-internationals who've been there and done it, but are now a bit past it (as done in the past with ex All Blacks, etc.) or we take a punt on up 'n coming players in the hope that they will deliver on the promise that they've shown. We're just not able to go for the Dan Carters of the world. We have to go for the 18/19/20 year old Dan Carters and hope they deliver and become Dan Carters later in their careers. Risky but the only option.

by thebluesmancometh Thu Apr 18, 2013 12:11 pm

Can't really fault Edwards explenations but they are exactly what we all expected too...

Experience needed, need to win games etc etc...

I know the Dragons aren't using the same shopping list as everyone else, theyre rummaging through the little yellow sticker shelves with the likes of Connacht etc.. But some of the signings are just so uninspiring.

Burton as an example, he isn't a good distributor, hasn't got good hands, defencively ropey, but will be solid with the boot, which of these attributes are going to help the 20yr old 9's game, or 18 yr old 12's game??? And where does Steffan Jones lie in all this, he has a lot of potential but needs gametime.

Like I said previously, Muller and Chapperro may turn out to be decent signings, don't know too much about them, but they are at least tight 5 signings that are desperately needed, not sure about Muller being most wanted lock in SA though... TRT again a decent signing, you know what he brings to the party and it's not as if there is oodles of young talent behind him at hook.

For me Rees is a curious signing, there are 2 SH's going well there, they just need a platform to play, similar with Steffan Jones, Jack Dixon etc!!!

If I were in charge of the Dragons I would be looking at tight 5 and maybe a quality centre with good distribution skills, not a 10, another ball carrying 8/6, and a 9!!!

by Stone Motif Thu Apr 18, 2013 12:39 pm

So in your analysis we haven't missed a goal kicker this season, we only need one ten in the entire squad, we won't be missing our best player for the majority of the season and we don't need players with experience in captaining a team?

by thebluesmancometh Thu Apr 18, 2013 1:11 pm

I'm not saying Dragons don't need a ten, but do you really think Burton will be their saviour, will he offer much Jones and Evans can't?

I wouldve promoted from within or found a younger prem 10 to develop and take a chance on, he'll cost less and he may develop well, Burton can only go down hill...

Yes you missed a goal kicker, but is that top of the needs analysis in your opinion?? Do you rate that above a competitive tight 5???

Yes Toby will be away a lot, but Brown cost less than Talei, considerably less according to Brown!!!

And with regards to experience, yes it's needed but in the right areas that will help the players around him. I think someone like Sweeney wouldve been a better option, couldn't have cost more, has a better distribution game, and would be better suited to helping a 9/12 along!! Burton is here for the contract, he needed one!!!

I'm not saying the Dragons don't have problems all over, they do, but prioritising goes a long way, if they focus'd on tight 5, the back row gets a better platform to perform, then the half backs get a better platform to perform, all of a sudden the Dragons have good backline ball, for the likes of Evans, Jones, Dixon, Riley, Prydie and Evans to do something with.

Burton is an acknowledgement of defeat up front IMHO!!

by Luckless Pedestrian Thu Apr 18, 2013 1:15 pm

No offence to Tom Brown, but Talei is captain of Fiji. Edinburgh fans on here rate him highly and are sorry to see him go (as well as being surprised that he's coming to us!). On top of that, he was shortlisted for the ERC player of the season award last season, so it's hard to cram him into your 'journeyman' box.

by thebluesmancometh Thu Apr 18, 2013 1:23 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:No offence to Tom Brown, but Talei is captain of Fiji. Edinburgh fans on here rate him highly and are sorry to see him go (as well as being surprised that he's coming to us!). On top of that, he was shortlisted for the ERC player of the season award last season, so it's hard to cram him into your 'journeyman' box.

He was outstanding last season in that Edinburgh team who played the open and attractive stuff, he carried like a monster from front foot ball, and in the wider chanells. Falatau is a similar player, but far superior to Talei in most other aspects, does he look like a superstar for the Dragons, he does an excellent job but is stifled by the lack of grunt up front.

We would all agree that if Falatau played for the Ospreys he would be one of the best 8's in europe and the world at club level, but Talei doesn't have the same skillset as Falatau, and hasn't performed well this season at all, possibly due to the Edinburgh packs tight 5 performances???

I'm not putting him in a journeyman box at all, I just think the Dragons have more things to worry about than a carrying option from 8, don't you?

by Luckless Pedestrian Thu Apr 18, 2013 1:31 pm

Bluesman, you keep going on about the front five as if we're ignoring the problem: we've signed a hooker, a tight head and a lock.

by thebluesmancometh Thu Apr 18, 2013 1:32 pm

But then I'm the kind of coach who builds his team from the foundations up, I see the tight 5 as the most important part of a team, followed by a good kicking option and carrying options in the wider chanells. At least from there you have parity, momentum and field position, every other position can be wilth slightly lesser players and still win games.

Therefore if your tight 5 is getting beaten up week in week out, and your losing by 30 points plus the first place to adress is the tight 5!

No offence but the likes of Buck, Way, Williams, Ryan, Nimmo, Gus, Jones and Sidoli are just not good enough, and I wouldn't want most of them near my first team let alone first choice!!!

The likes of Chavanga and Tuilagi are luxury players also, neither are contributing much to the Dragons cause!!

Burton will IMHO just fall into a list of players treading water and receiving a paypacket.

by Luckless Pedestrian Thu Apr 18, 2013 1:34 pm

I repeat: we've just signed a hooker, a tight head and a lock!

by thebluesmancometh Thu Apr 18, 2013 1:36 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Bluesman, you keep going on about the front five as if we're ignoring the problem: we've signed a hooker, a tight head and a lock.

Oh I know, and I have said I think TRT will do a decent job, Chaparro I don't know much about but is young and an Argy, and Muller can't be that bad a signing either, those 3 are forward thinking signings, and if 1 or 2 don't come off it was worth the risk. But does that change the tight 5 from getting the hiding it is every week to being competitive in the Rabo at least?

You still have to partner Muller with Jones/Sidoli or Nimmo (possibly Coombs) all 3 of those arent up to pro rugby any more (NImmo never was)

And the front row of Chaparro TRT Coundley/Buck/Price?? is that good???

Dragons wouldn't take a shot with the Xkeys wrecking ball (I wouldve) and are signing a few of the right types of players, but the likes of Talei, and Burton are just so random and desperate signings IMHO.

by thebluesmancometh Thu Apr 18, 2013 1:37 pm

Oh and Ritchie Rees!

by Stone Motif Thu Apr 18, 2013 1:42 pm

thebluesmancometh wrote:I'm not saying Dragons don't need a ten, but do you really think Burton will be their saviour, will he offer much Jones and Evans can't?

No, just consistency with the boot and experience, that's all. Plus he's cover for the inevitable injury/S Jones loss of form, and is not a full back crammed into the outside half jersey.

Bluesman wrote:I wouldve promoted from within or found a younger prem 10 to develop and take a chance on, he'll cost less and he may develop well, Burton can only go down hill...

You're better informed than most on here regarding the Dragons, please by all means list your suggestions. You also need to factor in the cost of that development before making claims about relative cost/quality, as we've been through at length on here.

Bluesman wrote: Yes you missed a goal kicker, but is that top of the needs analysis in your opinion?? Do you rate that above a competitive tight 5???

No, and neither do the board it seems, being as we've signed a prop and second row and have been linked with a new hooker

Bluesman wrote:
Yes Toby will be away a lot, but Brown cost less than Talei, considerably less according to Brown!!!

Brown would say that though wouldn't he? Unfortunately he's also considerably less good at rugby, and I do rate Tom as a player.

Bluesman wrote:And with regards to experience, yes it's needed but in the right areas that will help the players around him. I think someone like Sweeney wouldve been a better option, couldn't have cost more, has a better distribution game, and would be better suited to helping a 9/12 along!! Burton is here for the contract, he needed one!!!

Ah right, so you agree we need experience at ten then? If only we could find a recently retired international...Sweeney possibly but again probably not cheaper than Burton with the inflated values created by the PA.

by Luckless Pedestrian Thu Apr 18, 2013 1:44 pm

Bluesman, it seems like you're seeing what you want to see in these signings despite eveidence to the contrary. You've read Darren Edwards's account of the research that went into these signings, and yet you call them 'random and desparate'. I don't see the point of discussing this with you if that's going to be your mindset.

by Luckless Pedestrian Thu Apr 18, 2013 1:49 pm

thebluesmancometh wrote:But then I'm the kind of coach who builds his team from the foundations up, I see the tight 5 as the most important part of a team, followed by a good kicking option and carrying options in the wider chanells. At least from there you have parity, momentum and field position, every other position can be wilth slightly lesser players and still win games.

Darren Edwards wrote:We were quite clear on our strategy. We have an average age of 22. The team needed experience. We needed to put a spine of a team in there.

Having experience around the young players on the field will help them learn. I have been criticised for bringing in an experienced 10, but I've got an 18-year-old centre alongside him and a 20-year-old No 9 on the inside. We have to win games here. That's what the sport is all about. And with Kris Burton we are probably buying another three or four wins.

by thebluesmancometh Thu Apr 18, 2013 1:53 pm

Robling could be a decent 10 though, I'm looking forward to seeing him again tomorrow.

I wouldn't know off the top of my head a 10 who could step up, but then I have been an advocate of Steffans younger brother in the Academy, he must be 18 or so now, is he not ready? Does anyone know, I havn't seen him since last season. That said Steffan was a late bloomer.

I'd say Brown doesn't carry like Talei, but I havn't seen much from Talei this season to show he'll be any better than Brown!!!

I don't think you need experience at 10, I think you need it in general. I like Staffan JOnes, and the Evans 9's, plus Dixon is going to be a very good 12 (I'd prefer him at 13) If I was going to make changes to the backline I would offload Chavanga, and Tuilagi and bring in an experienced distributor at 12, Henson would be a risky signing, maybe even Thomas? But both would be affordable, and good experienced options.

At a club like the Dragons I think youthfull exhuberance at 9 and 10 would go a long way with a decent platform, I think thats why Patchell has thrived at the Blues, pack beaten up, no quality at 9 and he thought he'd just try everything with the limited players around him IMHO Dragons could quite easily leapfrog the Blues next season with some quality up front alone.

Evans
Jones
Prydie
experienced quality at 12
Dixon
Hughes/Riley (I like both but unsure of their positions still)
Evans

Would be a very good rabo backline, and one with a platform could finish mid table.

by thebluesmancometh Thu Apr 18, 2013 1:56 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:
thebluesmancometh wrote:But then I'm the kind of coach who builds his team from the foundations up, I see the tight 5 as the most important part of a team, followed by a good kicking option and carrying options in the wider chanells. At least from there you have parity, momentum and field position, every other position can be wilth slightly lesser players and still win games.

Darren Edwards wrote:We were quite clear on our strategy. We have an average age of 22. The team needed experience. We needed to put a spine of a team in there.

Having experience around the young players on the field will help them learn. I have been criticised for bringing in an experienced 10, but I've got an 18-year-old centre alongside him and a 20-year-old No 9 on the inside. We have to win games here. That's what the sport is all about. And with Kris Burton we are probably buying another three or four wins.

I get thast but my point is that the likes of Rees, Burton, Tuilagi and Chavanga are luxury type players that the Dragons can be spending wages elsewhere in much more usefull areas!!! Jones, Robling and Evans aren't going to lose those 3 games from 10 alone, I disagree Burton adds 3 wins to the team, he adds 3 - 6 points per game over the other options IMHO, and is a signing based on what happened last season over what could be done next.

by Luckless Pedestrian Thu Apr 18, 2013 1:58 pm

Can I just remind you of this, Bluesman:

'Fly half Steffan Jones and prop Aaron Coundley have signed new two year contracts keeping them in the region for the next two seasons.'

http://www.newportgwentdragons.com/News/Article/24338

Steffan's not going anywhere and he'll get plenty of gametime next season. You're acting like we've swapped him for Kris Burton!

by thebluesmancometh Thu Apr 18, 2013 2:04 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Can I just remind you of this, Bluesman:

'Fly half Steffan Jones and prop Aaron Coundley have signed new two year contracts keeping them in the region for the next two seasons.'

http://www.newportgwentdragons.com/News/Article/24338

Steffan's not going anywhere and he'll get plenty of gametime next season. You're acting like we've swapped him for Kris Burton!

I just think he's at a critical point in his development, he has attracted interest from the AP recently, and if he is to become the player I think he's capable of (good Rabo, good HC) he needs gametime, pure and simple. He has the attributes to be a very good 10, he just needs to learn to make the right decision and get the execution right, he's a full season away from being a very good 10 that the Dragons should be building around, not substituting him out for 12 months for a journeyman. To be the best you have to play the best, and Jones needs Amlin and top Rabo exposure against the likes of Leinster and co.

Similar to the Evans (still can't decide which one I prefer at 9)

by Luckless Pedestrian Thu Apr 18, 2013 2:06 pm

thebluesmancometh wrote:He has the attributes to be a very good 10, he just needs to learn to make the right decision and get the execution right, he's a full season away from being a very good 10 that the Dragons should be building around, not substituting him out for 12 months for a journeyman.

Are you listening to me at all? He's not going anywhere! I don't use FFS very often, but FFS!

by Stone Motif Thu Apr 18, 2013 2:09 pm

thebluesmancometh wrote:Oh I know, and I have said I think TRT will do a decent job, Chaparro I don't know much about but is young and an Argy, and Muller can't be that bad a signing either, those 3 are forward thinking signings, and if 1 or 2 don't come off it was worth the risk. But does that change the tight 5 from getting the hiding it is every week to being competitive in the Rabo at least?

So despite you rating them as good signings, you don't think they're good enough to be competitive in the Rabid? Make your mind up eh?

Bluesman wrote:
You still have to partner Muller with Jones/Sidoli or Nimmo (possibly Coombs) all 3 of those arent up to pro rugby any more (NImmo never was)

It's pretty much been stated Coombsy will play lock next season.

Bluesman wrote:
And the front row of Chaparro TRT Coundley/Buck/Price?? is that good???

Better than Buck/Gus/Price surely? You admit the funding constraints but still think we have failed to strengthen our squad? Bizarre.

Bluesman wrote:Dragons wouldn't take a shot with the Xkeys wrecking ball (I wouldve) and are signing a few of the right types of players, but the likes of Talei, and Burton are just so random and desperate signings IMHO.

You would want us to look at Keys if I've guessed your identity correctly Wink

a prop from the Prem would need at least a season of conditioning work to get up to speed, as you well know. And you've just stated we will lose our 8 and need a 10! What's random about it?

by thebluesmancometh Thu Apr 18, 2013 2:11 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:
thebluesmancometh wrote:He has the attributes to be a very good 10, he just needs to learn to make the right decision and get the execution right, he's a full season away from being a very good 10 that the Dragons should be building around, not substituting him out for 12 months for a journeyman.

Are you listening to me at all? He's not going anywhere! I don't use FFS very often, but FFS!

It's not about going anywhere though, it's about losing out on gametime in the big games!!! Jones needs every minute on the pitch possible, but with Burton at the club he is going to be playing last 20 guy to the more reliable old head. Instead of getting 60-80 minutes against the best in europe he will be watching Burton get it!!!

Jones will be getting his starts v the likes of Zebre, and Amlin no marks, Burton will be available all year round and will be prefered in any game worthy of being played. I can't beleive you don't think Burton would be detrimental to Jones development, similarly I wouldve said the same about Robinson, although at least his distribution game would help the backline no end!!!

by Luckless Pedestrian Thu Apr 18, 2013 2:16 pm

Bluesman, the honest truth is that I've had enough of watching us lose. B0llocks to accepting defeats in the name of developing youngsters. (Not that I think Steffan's development will suffer from having an international ten to learn from.)

by thebluesmancometh Thu Apr 18, 2013 2:20 pm

Stone Motif wrote:
thebluesmancometh wrote:Oh I know, and I have said I think TRT will do a decent job, Chaparro I don't know much about but is young and an Argy, and Muller can't be that bad a signing either, those 3 are forward thinking signings, and if 1 or 2 don't come off it was worth the risk. But does that change the tight 5 from getting the hiding it is every week to being competitive in the Rabo at least?
So despite you rating them as good signings, you don't think they're good enough to be competitive in the Rabid? Make your mind up eh?
Bluesman wrote:
You still have to partner Muller with Jones/Sidoli or Nimmo (possibly Coombs) all 3 of those arent up to pro rugby any more (NImmo never was)
It's pretty much been stated Coombsy will play lock next season.
Bluesman wrote:
And the front row of Chaparro TRT Coundley/Buck/Price?? is that good???
Better than Buck/Gus/Price surely? You admit the funding constraints but still think we have failed to strengthen our squad? Bizarre.
Bluesman wrote:Dragons wouldn't take a shot with the Xkeys wrecking ball (I wouldve) and are signing a few of the right types of players, but the likes of Talei, and Burton are just so random and desperate signings IMHO.
You would want us to look at Keys if I've guessed your identity correctly a prop from the Prem would need at least a season of conditioning work to get up to speed, as you well know. And you've just stated we will lose our 8 and need a 10! What's random about it?

You have not guessed correctly, I have no connection to any Gwent club currently!!!

I don't think I'm making myself clear though, my fault.

I'm rating the 3 tight 5 signings as potentially good, none of us know enough about, or could guess the outcome of the Argy or SA players. Plus after this year Coombs will be away with Wales a lot!!!

Your right prem tight 5's would take the best part of a season, but if they had been looking recently, by seasons end and pre season they'd be up to scratch in time for the new season.

My point was a front row of Chaparro TRT and Price would still not be enough to compete on any real level, although would be a small improvement.

And with Coombs with Wales, and Muller still an unknown, a pairing involving Nimmo, Sidoli, or Jones (even if Muller turned out to be the next Matfeild) would still not be good enough!!!

I havn't said the side isn't strengthened, they have made some right signings risk wise, I just question the Burton and Rees signings, and to a slightly lesser extent the Talei signing. And thats all considering the budget constraints, thats part of the randomness, having no money, but signing arguably better options for more money, talei is similar to Falatau, and cost more than Brown, Burton is going to do a very specific job for more money than Robling, Jones or Evans could, and theyre better options to help the backline IMHO, and Rees is an unnecesary cost as Evans's have been excellent, and IMHO the best SH's in Wales for 2 seasons (combined, they have both dipped in form at times)

by thebluesmancometh Thu Apr 18, 2013 2:23 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Bluesman, the honest truth is that I've had enough of watching us lose. B0llocks to accepting defeats in the name of developing youngsters. (Not that I think Steffan's development will suffer from having an international ten to learn from.)

Ye I get that, I blusterred massively regarding the Blues move back to the CAP, I'd happily see us lose all season in our home stadium, with a decent crowd, atmosphere, watching our youngsters take a pounding. But first half of the season was rough down the CAP, seeing Ulster and Edinburgh smash us, then those HC games...

If truth be told I havn't been much second half of the season, partly due to work and stuff but also that it's hard work standing on the terrace grumbling about how bad we are all the time!!

by Luckless Pedestrian Thu Apr 18, 2013 2:31 pm

Speaking of your return to the Arms Park, I went to the derby game on Boxing Day. Dan Evans missed a couple of kicks in the first half, Lewis Robling missed a late drop goal and we lost by a point. That's precisely the kind of game we'd have won if we'd had a proven goalkicker. I've said it before: we've had our fair share of hidings this season, but there have also been narrow defeats (twice against the Blues and the home game against the Ospreys, for example) where nailing kicks at goal would have made all the difference.

by Stone Motif Thu Apr 18, 2013 2:31 pm

thebluesmancometh wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Can I just remind you of this, Bluesman:

'Fly half Steffan Jones and prop Aaron Coundley have signed new two year contracts keeping them in the region for the next two seasons.'

http://www.newportgwentdragons.com/News/Article/24338

Steffan's not going anywhere and he'll get plenty of gametime next season. You're acting like we've swapped him for Kris Burton!

I just think he's at a critical point in his development, he has attracted interest from the AP recently, and if he is to become the player I think he's capable of (good Rabo, good HC) he needs gametime, pure and simple. He has the attributes to be a very good 10, he just needs to learn to make the right decision and get the execution right, he's a full season away from being a very good 10 that the Dragons should be building around, not substituting him out for 12 months for a journeyman. To be the best you have to play the best, and Jones needs Amlin and top Rabo exposure against the likes of Leinster and co.

Similar to the Evans (still can't decide which one I prefer at 9)

Stef has the potential to be a good player I agree. Imo though, he hasn't got the calm head he needs and the pressure of first choice gets to him. His best games have been when the pressure was off, with a bit of competition or expectation he crumbles. Proving he can take the shirt from an experienced 10 is crucial to his development as a player if you ask me. As is getting fit, he's looked absolute pies this season. As for which Evans at 9, I'd be tempted to go with the one who's not Poopie. Clue: it's not Wayne!

by Jhamer25 Thu Apr 18, 2013 5:21 pm

[quote]Speaking to Delves dad in tesco a few days ago (st mellons) and he knows nothing of Delve coming home, still got 2 years on his contract hasn't he? (my question not his, didn't speak long, just a quick hello
No im sure I read somthing last year about him signing a one year contract (which would be uo at the end of this season). becuase he was heavily being linked with toulon but i think he stayed on a year becuase Mortlock was retiring and he was going to be captain if he stayed.

Also people dont seem to care that Johnathan Thomas is leaving, personally if i was an ospreys fan and he left i wouldn't be upset. Ospreys have got some cracking players coming through in all departentsnumber 8 especially. Already with bearman there and know htey have Morgan Allen (who im pretty sure is a future international, would love him at the scarlets) and Dan Baker (again, a very strong number 8 who was the ouststanding for the Wales U20's). ALso of stowers stays what the hell do they have to worry about. Oh and Ryan Jones, bluddy hell selling Johnathan Thomas off now for some dosh would be a great move when I think of it.

by pioden gorllewin Thu Apr 18, 2013 6:14 pm

it's been mentioned on here for a while, but looks like western fail are now running with the story:

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/scarlets-close-signing-scotland-star-2769451

he Scarlets are believed to be close to signing Scottish international John Barclay from Glasgow.

Barclay, 26, has been capped 41 times for Scotland and been with Glasgow all of his professional career.

But he is thought to be ready to make the move to west Wales – and his dynamism on the openside flank would solve what was something of a problem area for the Scarlets last season.

Simon Easterby has Jonathan Edwards, Aaron Shingler, Josh Turnbull and Rob McCusker as options in the back row, but Barclay, as a specialist No.7, would add a new dimension.

With the region about to be boosted by the transfer fee paid to them from Northampton Saints for George North, reportedly in the region of £200,000, there is some extra cash available for squad strengthening.

Barclay formed one third of a Scotland back row, along with John Beattie and Kelly Brown, that became known as the killer bees back in 2010.

He has been a Glasgow player since turning professional in 2005

by ScarletSpiderman Thu Apr 18, 2013 8:09 pm

I guess now the fail say it that means Barclay isn't going too sign after all Laugh

by Guest Thu Apr 18, 2013 8:14 pm

Just to wade into the Dragons penalty kicker argument; while not amazing, Tom Prydie was the Rabo Direct top penalty points scorer until recently. He's been overtaken by Ian Madigan. We probably don't get as many penalties as other teams (the losing teams tend not to for obvious reasons), so he must be doing something right. He's kicked 31 penalties so far, with players like Biggar on 28 and Dan Parks on 25. He's 3rd in the successful conversions and penalty table (and we probably don't score as many tries either!) behind Madigan (59) and Biggar (52), but ahead of Laidlaw and Piennar both on 41. Not bad for a winger. Good kicking option I say.

by Stone Motif Thu Apr 18, 2013 8:26 pm

Yeah but he's like Stef tho isn't he? He turns up with his kicking boots on and he could put a rugby ball through the eye of a needle, he turns up in his clownshoes and he couldn't put a rugby ball in his kit bag. Usually when it's the kind of game we need to take every point on offer and they lose their composure. They both do it, drives me crazy.

by thebluesmancometh Thu Apr 18, 2013 9:14 pm

I wouldn't say Prydies like Stef at all in that he bottles anything, look at his world cup performances!!!

I was kinda considering Prydie's kicking to goal mind, Steff doesn't have to be dead eye with Prydie around.

Didn't realise Prydies stats were that high mind... wow!! Whats his ratio in comparison to other Rabo kickers? Bet it's up there!

by thebluesmancometh Thu Apr 18, 2013 9:16 pm

Oh and Barclay to Scarlets = Amazeballs!!

Yes theyll lose him for long periods but the 7 shirt has been such a problem for ages.

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