Shocking Refereeing

As a neutral I found Andre Joubert's performance absolutely ridiculous. He seemingly made up his mind who he was siding with from the off and basically gave Wales far more chances than they deserved. Why didn't he reach for the yellows at an earlier point? Shocking.

Wales were the better team, but I can't remember the last time I saw a more rubbish game. Joubert, it was all your fault.

I saw 3 worse games than this in this years 6 nations

Wales v France
Ireland v England
Ireland v Scotland

No way any of those games were worse

IronMike wrote:I saw 3 worse games than this in this years 6 nations

Wales v France
Ireland v England
Ireland v Scotland

Come on!

Those games weren't great spectacles but the one just now was a new level of awfulness.

he ruined England France as well. The man is a nightmare.

To be fair to Joubert, and he may not deserve it, but there were plenty of players on the pitch as bad as him.

basically gave Wales far more chances than they deserved. Why didn't he reach for the yellows at an earlier point? Shocking.

No he didn't. As always people only point how bad he was for Wales' opposition. He could have given a yellow at an earlier point in the game, but he would have been sending off a Scotland player.

Oh well another game that the arrogant English predicted us to lose, won. Can't wait until we pee all over your slam dream next week. Put those t-shirts on hold.

LondonTiger wrote:To be fair to Joubert, and he may not deserve it, but there were plenty of players on the pitch as bad as him.

+ 1

Guess it depends what you had at stake in those matches.

From a neutral POV Ireland and Scotland was a bore fest, it was like watching a vastly superior team that could not be bothered to finish their chances. And the England Ireland game in miserable conditions made it a attritional game which is not the most enjoyable for a neutral.

Granted the Wales games vs France and Scotland wernt enjoyable for a neutral, but its definitely not the worst game I've seen.

Morg,

What is it with the arrogant English thing?

I'm English and I predicted you'd beat Ireland, Italy and Scotland at this point ... so even if I did get the Ireland and France ones wrong I still had you as 3 out of 4 so far.

Refs have to start working more sympathetically with the scrum, particularly aound the crouch-touch-engage call. Making the timing of this call more consistent will remove some of the desire to second guess when to hit.

Yeah he was far too passive with his calls in the scrum and then looked surprised that Scotland were pestering him about it after he paused an extra second before saying set.

His calls concerning the breakdown were good at times but, but he made several howlers.

Look, the ref has a tough job to do and they deserve respect, but I think they have to be consistent and today in the scrum he was not.

Those 2 Scotland knock ons right at the end plus Ian Evans handling the ball while lying on the ground on the Welsh line while Scotland were trying to get the ball over the line. Lots of questionable things

The teams were trying a lot on but you never felt that the ref had control

From an English perspective I actually preferred it if Wales won as it'll hopefully set up a cracking game at Cardiff next week provided we get past Italy tomorrow. As for the anti-Wales thing I think that's just pathetic. I like the way they play; who do you think I supported in the RWC once England went home??

Let's not beat about the bush here: players will always try to get away with stuff; the ref is there to keep them in order. Joubert did not at any point. He could have stamped his authority on the game but instead chose to almost let anarchy rule. I hope he has no further 6N games to preside over.

Agree with opening poster. This was by a county mile the worst reffing I've seen this 6N. He ignored the breakdown COMLETELY for the first 20mins. Reffed every single mouse fart in the mid 30. Awarded Wales 3 penalties in red zone in one phase without a card... Etc etc. he was inconsistent to a methamphetamine degree. He's gone from being one of the most respected refs to one of the worst in just over a year. He was far too obvious and evident today.

Bounce lets just say I've not seen 1 english poster give Wales any credit for a hard earned victory. A bit of humility would suit you chaps at times, and you may get a bit more respect. Whenever Welsh posters critcise refs there seems to be flurries of comments saying we always moan...............and its always us that do it. to be fair I've hardly seen any scottish posters criticise Joubert since the game finished - its all the English fans!

Well I am an English supporter and I would say that Wales looked stronger pretty much everywhere. They also looked clueless as to what to do with their superiority. But it was an awful game to watch and a lot of that was down to Joubert

lostinwales wrote:Well I am an English supporter and I would say that Wales looked stronger pretty much everywhere. They also looked clueless as to what to do with their superiority. But it was an awful game to watch and a lot of that was down to Joubert

Can't disagree with any of that lostin

Morgannwg wrote:Oh well another game that the arrogant English predicted us to lose, won...........

Morg, that comment is disappointing and unworthy.

Scotland have conceded 16 penalties in each of their last two games.
If anyones ruining rugby, its them.

To be fair I think most people are just saying how bad Joubert was - I don't think I've seen anyone say he was responsible for Wales winning? The best team won for sure but I'm still disappointed that he spoiled what I was hoping would be an exciting game.

Don't think Walsh was much better. I think he let Ireland off with a bit in the scrum and just seemed to make poor calls.

Why can't we have our refs back

tatterd wrote:Bounce lets just say I've not seen 1 english poster give Wales any credit for a hard earned victory. A bit of humility would suit you chaps at times, and you may get a bit more respect. Whenever Welsh posters critcise refs there seems to be flurries of comments saying we always moan...............and its always us that do it. to be fair I've hardly seen any scottish posters criticise Joubert since the game finished - its all the English fans!

I think both english and welsh fans are guilty of this, has been for as long as internet forums were invented and will probably continue for as long as they exist.

Joubert was poor all round but his reffing of the scrums, in particular the crouch-touch-engage is appalling. Think someone said it on another thread here that he seems like a teacher randomly changing the timing to trick front rows into going early so he can penalise them. That hits the nail on the head, he was the same in the eng v france game too, think the first 3-5 scrums ended with an early hit. He doesn't seem to realise that 2 groups of 8 men about to smash into each other find it very hard to stay crouched in half for any length of time. Making the C-T-S call the same tempo throughout the game will give both sets of forwards the timing to get the engage correct, if they did this early hits would virtually be cut out of the game and with them, a lot of collapses before the ball goes in.

It's incredibly simple for anyone with a brain who likes rugby to see this and it baffles me that the top governing/refereeing bodies haven't recognised this.

So true frosties.

One of the worst referees going around and he's been doing it for years. Someone should take him out the back and give him a 'caution'. Walsh definitely has a chip bolted on too. We all deserve better officiating and every match those two never fail to ruin a game and disappoint fans.

I've also noticed this annoyingly frustrating refereeing 'style' where they'll hammer one team for 20 mins... then the other for the next 20. Then in the second half it happens all over again. It's as though they have been instructed by some higher power to do so. That's not fair on anyone.

Nothing to do with Wales or Scotland. Wales won and I can't see anyone denying they deserved to. Jouberts awful refereeing is an independent issue - he was poo.

oh dear...who'd wanna be a ref kiddies. Odd job really where the best possible outcome is where you are not mentioned anywhere after a match...hardly an aspiring career.

Mr Bounce wrote: As for the anti-Wales thing I think that's just pathetic

Then why post pathetic and inaccurate rubbish:

He seemingly made up his mind who he was siding with from the off and basically gave Wales far more chances than they deserved. Why didn't he reach for the yellows at an earlier point? Shocking

Your words not mine. But as we already know Wales can only win if the ref hands them the game and the opposition plays badly, like you arrogant English keep in telling us.

Rugby Union has to be one of/the hardest sport to ref. I cant think of a harder sport? I dont think Joubert was great and we did get the rub of the green but swings and roundabouts I guess. With regards to the scrum, I really dont understand why they dont remove the hit and just have the scrums form then push when the ball is in.

Brendan wrote:Don't think Walsh was much better. I think he let Ireland off with a bit in the scrum and just seemed to make poor calls.

Why can't we have our refs back

Considering the tough conditions and 2 very error prone teams, I think he did a good job. There's not many ref as consistant as him bar maybe nigel owens and those two are really head and shoulders above the rest. Steve walsh also has a lot of empathy for the game and the game tends to be more fluid as a result which is great when rugby is played with pace and skill ( such as during the AIs not this 6Ns obviously).

The ref cannot be totally to blame for a poor game - Lots of stupid penalties seemed to be given away. Scrums are just a mess and need sorting out.

It is simply too difficult as a ref to get every decision right - too much happens on the pitch in too many different places and every one has good and bad days

But the ref should be able to call a scrum correctly with no hesitation on "set". That was my biggest issue with that game.

Two areas in the Modern game are now penalty fests,The Scrum and Breakdown area.The IRB instead of looking at the root causes,tinkers arounds the edges.Brings out experimental working parties,gives refs different instructions every year etc..
The Breakdown is ridiculous an area where the REF can ping EITHER side at EVERYONE.For half a dozen offences is ridiculous and the Players are quick to exploit this.
The Scrum is tinkered with when the root cause the "Hit" is obvious,set the Scrum by rows and engage.THEN feed the Scrum,IF it`s been hooked and the Scrum collapses play on.
Joubert and Walsh,yesterday applied the IRB Scrum directive with different interpratations.One made it longer and drawn out,the other insisted on speeding it up.
Joubert got it into his head early that Scotland were at it trying to negate a superior Scrum illegally.
The amount of territorial play governed by kicking was the problem every time the game looked like developing the Ref. blew.
Yes ,Wales deserved to win simply because the tried to play Rugby,Scotland tried to win without the ball a`la the Ireland match.
England had a great win against an out sorts All Blacks side BUT they were matched try for try.
One wonders what the result would have been if it had been a one point game then at half time.

It was a pretty awful game for a neutral but its not entirely the refs fault. Personally I thought Scotland didn't really put up much of a fight. Certainly not in pressure or attack. Their discipline was horrendous. Wales like Ireland blew a lot of opportunities. Only 1 try like Ireland. England will definitely be a sterner test in all areas. Wales deserved to win but need to up their game.


Emack2 what has England's win vs the ABs have to do with anything? Out of sorts? Only in your eyes because your side lost - still upset by it I suppose.

aitchw wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:To be fair to Joubert, and he may not deserve it, but there were plenty of players on the pitch as bad as him.

+ 1

Wales scored the only try. Scotland squandered several chances from 1m out.

Blaming the ref is irrelevant.

Wales vs France was pretty bad, but the other two were both very exciting, even if there wasn't much of a scoreline.

t1000advancedprototype wrote:

aitchw wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:To be fair to Joubert, and he may not deserve it, but there were plenty of players on the pitch as bad as him.

+ 1

Wales scored the only try. Scotland squandered several chances from 1m out.

Blaming the ref is irrelevant.

Ok so what do we do - sue him (Joubert) for spoiling a game and wrecking scrummaging? Joubert is a grade a moron who should never be allowed near an international match ever again. As The Sunday Herald Sport (Alasdair Reid) puts it "Craig Joubert used to be a corporate banker so he must be the first person in history to take up refereeing in order to boost his popularity ! This plan went badly off the rails yesterday"

BTW we have obviously had Jim Hamilton's good game for Scotland (2 weeks ago v Ireland) as yesterday he was feckin abysmal,
including one of the thickest moments of utter stupidity I have ever witnessed at 40 mins when he gifted Wales a penalty. A complete numpty.

21st Century Schizoid Man wrote:

t1000advancedprototype wrote:

aitchw wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:To be fair to Joubert, and he may not deserve it, but there were plenty of players on the pitch as bad as him.

+ 1

Wales scored the only try. Scotland squandered several chances from 1m out.

Blaming the ref is irrelevant.

Ok so what do we do - sue him (Joubert) for spoiling a game and wrecking scrummaging? Joubert is a grade a moron who should never be allowed near an international match ever again. As The Sunday Herald Sport (Alasdair Reid) puts it "Craig Joubert used to be a corporate banker so he must be the first person in history to take up refereeing in order to boost his popularity ! This plan went badly off the rails yesterday"

BTW we have obviously had Jim Hamilton's good game for Scotland (2 weeks ago v Ireland) as yesterday he was feckin abysmal,
including one of the thickest moments of utter stupidity I have ever witnessed at 40 mins when he gifted Wales a penalty. A complete numpty.

i wonder what went wrong, a bit more than a year ago Joubert was seen as the best referee in world rugby, now he is seen as a worse referee that my dear friend Bryce Lawrence?

Also makes you wonder how he was responsible for Scotland shipping 16 penalties the week before as well then 13 the week before that

i wonder what went wrong, a bit more than a year ago Joubert was seen as the best referee in world rugby, now he is seen as a worse referee that my dear friend Bryce Lawrence?

Joubert was world renowned... in NZ alone. After that RWC final he should never have been allowed near anothe rugby pitch again!!!

Perhaps the disappointment for some of France losing the final is still symptomatic in the criticism Joubert is recieving in every match he officiates in Europe?

Biltong wrote:Perhaps the disappointment for some of France losing the final is still symptomatic in the criticism Joubert is recieving in every match he officiates in Europe and Australia ?

Fixed that for you. That'll be 100 rand.

Biltong

Sorry mate but in every Joubert game I have seen until yesterday he has clearly favoured one side and at times seemed hell bent on handing them the win.

I'd never go as far to call a ref a cheat but Jouberts performances have come as close as I ever want to see.

Bluesman, if Joubert's performances were as poor for the past year as people suggest, how is it that he is still on the international panel?

Just asking

Biltong wrote:Bluesman, if Joubert's performances were as poor for the past year as people suggest, how is it that he is still on the international panel?

Just asking

Because the elite list isn't up for renewal yet? We seen Barnes drop down last year, so expect Joubert to be on the way down.

Bilt,must confess that whilst Joubert was butchering our game I did not consider France for one nano second!

Morgannwg wrote:

Biltong wrote:Bluesman, if Joubert's performances were as poor for the past year as people suggest, how is it that he is still on the international panel?

Just asking

Because the elite list isn't up for renewal yet? We seen Barnes drop down last year, so expect Joubert to be on the way down.

well let's hope for the sake of fairness he is dropped then, if his performances aren't up to standard then he must go.

Let's wait and see the new panel.

Taffineastbourne wrote:Bilt,must confess that whilst Joubert was butchering our game I did not consider France for one nano second!

unfortunately I didn't see the game, so can't really comment on Joubert's performance.

I'd just like to add George calamity Clancy's name to this thread

I thought he, Barnes and Joubert were on the list since week 1?

GLove39 wrote:I'd just like to add George calamity Clancy's name to this thread

Shocking.