shocking! !

Last night I was so angry and disappointed but thought after the dust had settled and a sleep I might see things differently ! Wel after watching the whole thing over and over again I dont . I can't remember the last time I saw such a masterclass in boxing in a high profile fight than George groves last night . there is no way it should have been stopped . Hes hands were up and was walking forward it is a disgrace and a rematch should be ordered .
I have lost all respect for froch and sick of hes bs . He said groves was turning hes back on him and not defending himself? Is the guy for real! And he gave everyone a great nights entertainment ! No groves was the star of the show until the ref decided to steel it!

Disagree big time with your naive comments.

Watch the fight again, look at the stoppage.

If you think for one second that Groves wasn't hurt at all then you don't know boxing.

Froch shipped a million punches last night that would have knocked nearly everyone out COLD. He kept coming, kept fighting and got in groves face.

After the 7th, groves started to slow down which suited froch, he was able to pin him to the ropes and unleash which he wasn't able to do for the past 6 rounds.

He jumped on Groves,unleashed, nothing came back, hands were down, nearly fell over when the ref let him go.

Frich did exactly what he said he would....that he would eventually catch him, and when he did, he would end it.

Guess what happened.

Im bored of this crap now. Froch won, its not his fault the ref jumped in for the fighters safety. He was out of it. End of story.

Froch should now go on to face Ward and Groves WILL come back stronger and eventually become a champ.

Very much doubt that he'd fight Ward after that performance. He'd know himself that he's lost a bit and the only chance he'd have of winning is having Howard Foster or IJL reffing.
Has to be a Groves rematch next or retire. Nothing else will sell like a rematch.

Like I say ive watched the fight over and over . Yes groves was hurt but no more than froch was at least 3 times before . He went to the ropes put hes hands up and began to walk forward . He only fell because the ref grabed him round the neck as froch was able to land free shot to body (never seen that before!) . Even the biggest froch fan surely would admit that the stoppage was wrong regardless of what would happen . The fact you call my comments naive says more about your knowledge of boxing than mine .

HAHAHAHAH!!

He began to walk forward when he was getting mailed on the ropes? Did he? Did you happen to miss the left hook that put him on queer street before he walked to the ropes? He was hanging on and froch chased him to the ropes and unleashed an unanswered combination flush to the face with nothing in return! Name on section of the fight where groves hit froch, made his knees dip and retreat against the ropes on no mans land.....never happened.

Froch got hit flush in the first, got up, bell rang, carried on fine. He was hit a million times FLUSH by groves and just kept coming back with pressure.

The second Froch hit groves flush, he fell everywhere tried to grab went to the ropes and was finished. Prematurely yes. But Jesus mate, wake the feck up!!

Tunes and mobile are banging the same drum I see...

Well fella's, you're both wrong. 20000 at the fight agree and every respectable pundit, pro, ex-pro, journalist and your average man in the street is on my side too.

Why Lumbering? I said it was a premature stoppage but that the writing was on the wall from the 7th onwards. Even Haye admitted that along with Hearn. Id agree with their opinion about how the fight was turning into a Froch fight.

He had absorbed Groves best shots and STILL couldn't be put away.

He had turned the tide and was getting to groves. He finally did in the 9th.

If the ref let it carry on, Groves would have been pumbled around the ring for the remaining 2 minutes. Would have won 10-8. That would have put him ONE POINT UP on the official scorecards (the professionals who judge the fights).

Round ten, Froch would have applied major pressure knowing Groves was slowing and clearly hurt in the 9th and near enough stopped......he would have either stopped him or won on points.

Nobody is denying the fact that Groves was brilliant for 6 rounds, but he couldn't quite push on and keep to his plan either through lack of stamina or just because Froch is a tough mofo.

Never the less, its done, move on.

Nobody, including you are that wum tunes, know what would've happened if it carried on.

You just have to look at the refs performance, the scorecards and the reaction of the people in attendance to really know what was going on. It speaks for itself.

2 judges had it 4 rounds apiece. Something fishy here.

Like I said, the old reliable. The exact same would have happened to Ward here. And mobilemaster would be defending it.

Er your are talking about last nights fight arnt you ? Not the bute one ? Hanging on ? Unanswered combination? Missed that ! Yes the 20000 in the arena all journalist and all involved must have got it wrong ! Groves was dead on hes feet! Absolutely bs . We will never know the true result but the fact is it was a joke decision and robbed groves the chance of becameing champion. Take your froch tainted glasses off I think your the one that needs to WAKE UP !

Lumbering_Jack wrote:2 judges had it 4 rounds apiece. Something fishy here.

Comments like this usually infuriate me after a big fight , but this is spot on.
4 rounds a piece and a shocking referee display , is worth an investigation.

Cheers Rodders

Or how about the Burns fight against the Mexican guy a while back. Burns holding on for dear life every chance he gets and spoiling like mad while the ref remains blind to it. Then the judges arrive to save the day.

Not that I disagree with your basic premise of querying a couple of the cards, here, LJ, but scoring does involve fine margins. I am in agreement with the sizeable minority who had the fight 5-3 to Groves (7 & 8 certainly to Froch, the 5th more arguably so), with a 10-8 first round giving him a three-point lead over Froch. The difference between that and two of the judges' scorecard is only viewing one extra round differently.

I gave Groves the third, but it isn't stretching too much to say that the single best punch of that round was a Froch left hook, which raised an almost immediate swelling. Not enough to give Froch the round, in my view, not by any means, but I can at least follow how such a conclusion may have been arrived at.

Overall, the flow of the fight was clearly in Groves' favour for the most part, but each round is scored independently, of course, which can led to a misleading impression of what has actually happened. If others saw the fifth differently from me, I wouldn't make too much of a fuss, but while I disagree with the one-point margins in Groves' favour, I can't view them as corrupt in any sense. I don't think that the controversial ending should obscure the fact that the fight was up for grabs if we had reached the end of the ninth round - George would still have needed to finish the job.

All I know is the ref was a joke, Froch was fouling constantly and no points were deducted.

No way should that fight of been stopped, Groves might have been buzzed, but he was trying to grab Froch and the ref grabbing him was the reason that his back turned.

Whenever Groves got hit and buzzed a bit, he grabbed Froch and tied him up, I can't stop laughing at the people who are claiming Groves would certainly have been stopped, there is absolutely no evidence of that at all. Groves hurt Froch much worse throughout the fight.

Groves was robbed of his chance, there is no arguing that.

If Groves had the been big name and house fighter those judges would have had it a near shut out to him on that display. Its obvious that any round that could conceivably go to Froch or even some that couldnt were going to go to him anyway. The fight was not 4 rounds a piece. The ref was not impartial. That is the big issue.

The big issue is how people don't know how to score a fight and like the Captain says look at the balance of the fight too much. The 1st, 2nd and the 4th were Groves rounds, the 5th, 7th and 8th for Froch, the 6th was looking big for Groves until he started lying on the ropes while the 3rd had so little action it could have gone either way.

Press Scores

Wolfgand Schiffbauer (Sturm-Promotions) : 78-73 Groves
Corey Quincy (BL Boxing) : 78-73 Groves
Cliff Rold (BoxingScene) : 78-73 Groves
Boxing Opinions : 78-73 Groves
Daniel Vano (CheckHookBoxing) : 77-74 Groves
Adam Abramowitz (SaturdayNight Boxing) : 77-74 Groves
Shaun Brown (Boxing-Monthly) : 78-73 Groves
Alex Morris (BoxingAsylum) : 78-73 Groves
Mike Coppinger (USA Today) : 77-74 Groves
Dan Rafael (ESPN) : 79-72 Groves
John Wharton (Brit Box Magazine) : 78-73 Groves
Phil D Jay (WorldBoxingNews) : 78-73 Groves
Matt Christie (Boxing News) : 78-74 Groves
David Greisman (BoxingScene) : 77-74 Groves
Ron Lewis (The Times) : 77-74 Groves
Tim Starks (The Queensberry Rules) : 78-73 Groves
Kurt Ward (BoxingAsylum) : 78-73 Groves
Billy Ferguson (UKFighthype) : 79-72 Groves
The Boxing Tribune : 78-73 Groves
Danny Flexen (Boxing News) : 77-74 Groves
Paul Daley (TopClassBoxing) : 78-73 Groves
Rachel Aylett (RingNews24) : 78-74 Groves
Steve Bunce (Boxnation TV) : 78-73 Groves
Alex Marasco (TopClassBoxing) : 79-71 Groves
Jamie Borne (TopClassBoxing) : 78-73 Groves
Stevie Adams (TopClassBoxing) : 78-73 Groves
Jim Watt (Sky Sports TV) : 78-73 Groves
Victor M Salazar (ThaBoxingVoice) : 78-73 Groves
Pro Boxing Fans.com : 77-74 Groves
Steve Kim (Maxboxing) : 78-73 Groves
Ryan Bivins (SweetBoxing) : 78-73 Groves
ForzaBoxing : 78-73 Groves
Lyle Fitzsimmons (BoxingScene) : 76-75 Groves
Ciaran Shanks (Irvine Times) : 79-72 Groves
Matthew Mojica (TheFightSource) : 77-74 Groves
Corey Erdman (Wealth TV) : 78-73 Groves
Darren Velasco (FightDomain) : 77-74 Groves
FightHype.com : 78-73 Groves
Christopher Carlson (RopeaDopeRadio) : 78-73 Groves
Ryan Maquinana (BoxingScene) : 77-74 Groves
UKFighthype.com :78-73 Groves
Kasim Aslam (UKFighthype) : 78-73 Groves
FightScene SouthAfrica : 78-73 Groves
Ramon Aranda (3MoreRounds) : 77-74 Groves
BoxingSocialist.com : 77-74 Groves
Beau Denison (TheBoxingTruth) : 78-74 Groves

PRESS AVERAGE SCORE : 78-73 GROVES

The ref was not epecially competent - on that we can agree, catchweight. I believe, though, that those who maintain that Froch should have had a point deducted, particularly for some blatantly deliberate use of the elbow, are on firmer ground than those who reckon that Foster wasn't on the level.

The fact is that British referees these days all seem to have the same weaknesses that leave them light years off the pace that is required at the highest level. Lack of clarity, lack of decisiveness and a desire to operate by numbers, rather than reacting to what they see in front of them, are the principal failings. Standards have dropped so far in this country since the days of Gibbs, O'Connell and Coyle that it isn't true. However, I have to say that I still see inadequacy, as opposed to bias or worse.

Yes, 77-74 and 78-73 are by far the most common scores, which is about right. I would still say that seeing one other round differently is not, in itself, sufficient cause to accuse the judges of crooked behaviour, however much we might disagree with their interpretation.

It happens too regularly for it to be isolated incidents. Its blatant favouritism in a sport with hardly any accountability. Its obvious from the whole fight that Froch had the decked stacked in his favour. From the scorecards to the refs performance. Its not a load of people having a bad day at the office. It happens all the time but it shouldnt be justified. The UK is a farce at the moment with Warren and Hearn.

captain carrantuohil wrote:Yes, 77-74 and 78-73 are by far the most common scores, which is about right. I would still say that seeing one other round differently is not, in itself, sufficient cause to accuse the judges of crooked behaviour, however much we might disagree with their interpretation.

I agree in principle captain, but the reality is that only one of the 40 plus press had it as close as 76-75, but 2 out of 3 judges did? Now what are the chances of that happening? It's a long time since I studied stats, but the answer in technical terms is 'pretty damn unlikely'

We all see things differently. Hammer thinks the 5th and 7th were clear froch rounds, I thought the only clear froch round was the 8th. You can and frequently do get the same score from a very different combination of rounds. Ultimately, we all think we're impartial but if we keep giving the benefit of the doubt in close rounds to 1 fighter then we're not.

I had it 78-73 and I can see a spread of 77-74 to 79-72 as viable cards. Your card is on the froch side of the average already which is why one more to froch might not sound much but its one too many. Just my take.

A good and persuasive answer as ever, milky. I would accept that there was little argument about the rounds that Groves won hands down (1-4 and 6). I further agree that there could be debate about the 5th, which I gave to Froch. To me, the 7th and 8th were both Froch's and the ninth would have been too, possibly by a two point margin. Under most scenarios, a decision was still therefore a possibility for both men, even if we disregard the too close one-point scorecards.

That wonderful sixth round, surely the front-runner for round of the year, was a turning point, for me. Groves produced his best sustained work of the entire fight for the first two and a half minutes, but couldn't, this time, floor Froch. Not only that, but at the finish, Froch was firing back with his own hurtful shots. It wasn't enough to take the round from George, but I did detect a slight air of "what must I do to get rid of this guy?" from Groves. That may be fanciful of me and what happened from the seventh onwards may be coincidental, but it seemed to me that the seventh was the round in which Froch stopped being pushed back by Groves' blows and started, if not to walk through them, then no longer to be operating from the back foot. I marvel at the man's ability to withstand such punishment and still be strong enough to turn the tide in his own favour.

This, of course, is what should have been the twin stories of the fight - Groves' all-round excellence and Froch's barely credible refusal to accept defeat. Those who still damn Groves as somehow unproven or regard Froch as anything other than one of Britain's most indomitable fighters and highest boxing achievers are allowing disappointment at the unsatisfactory conclusion to cloud their vision.

So as I understand it Captain you score the fight as follows:

(5 x 10) + (3 x 9) = 77 for Groves

(3 x 10) + (4 x 9) + (1 x 8) = 74 for Froch


I can go along with that, I had it one more round to Groves so 78 to 73.

I would have to watch the fight again to have another look at Round 5.  Initially I gave it to Froch but I think I may have been generous based on it being the first round Froch was not taking a one side beat down.  The round may have been a draw leaving the score 78 to 74.

Froch won round 8 to me with 7 being closer. I need to rewatch the fight to confirm round 7 as well. 5 and 7 are the contentions ones in my card.

No matter what way I look at the fight I cannot see 76-75.

76 = (4 x 10) + (4 x 9)

75 = (4 x 10) + (3 x 9) + (1 x 8)


Two judges had the fight even in rounds, the knockdown being the one point difference.

Groves was just too dominant for it to be judged an even fight after the 8th by any measure in my opinion.

I gave two rounds to Froch & thought I was being generous. Also believe that he should have been docked points for his continual fouling, yes Groves wasn't a Saint either [see what I did there  ] but Froch was far worse.
I literally could not believe it when the ref stepped in, it was as though he was just waiting for the first oppurtunity to stop Groves, I was left howling in indignation at the absurdity of it.
Froch may have gone on to finish him, who knows, but I believe as do most others that given what had gone before & the fact that it was a world title fight, Groves should have been given more of a chance.
I should add that I'm a big fan of Froch & have admired his attitude to fight all comers - a refreshing change, although I was rather p1ssed off with his continual moaning in the run up & proclaimations of being "an international superstar" - yeah alrigh Carl pipe down 'eh!

There is a clip of the stoppage on YouTube (for the moment). You can clearly see that Groves was indeed walking forward - arguably even pushing Froch back - when the ref stepped in. He was not cornered. Froch was not "unloading".

The 6th was the turning point I agree captain. Although the round itself was the reverse, there was an element of Mugabi hagler to it. You sensed that a great round (regardless of its particular outcome) had changed the flow of the fight and the mindset of the fighters.

I said on the 'groves chin' thread before the fight why I feared for groves and I think it  pretty much happened. I was convinced that when he was tagged he would come out fighting and leave himself open. He did against Anderson and I think it's nigh on impossible to train out of someone. Like khan his instincts are to swing when hurt. It's admirable but not a great attribute for a fighter, and an inability to spoil and buy time will cost him again in his career I fear.

Someone mentioned in another thread that groves may have spent some nervous energy (a la David price) and there could be something in that, though you have to credit froch for his traditional comeback. I don't feel he does anything different, just that what he has starts to work against tiring fighters. He's like the even paced 400 metre runner, they look like they have a sprint finish, but everyone else is just coming back to them... Have I really compared carl froch to Christina ohuruogu? Moving on!

A less macho attitude, better pacing and an ability to stick to a game plan when under fatigue and we might be congratulating groves on a comfortable points win (on one judges card at least) rather than debating the awful stoppage.

It's common in fights for fighters to get their second winds at different times, it's entirely plausible that groves survives the round and regroups and comes on strong again. We're led to believe he has excellent recovery powers and conditioning. Its more common obviously that when the tide has turned, its turned for good. Its all conjecture really about the ending the fight deserved to have.

Good to see some considered analysis, milky/captain in particular.

I think the suggestion that Groves lost his head under bombardment and could only answer by swinging back is some way off the mark. If you watch closely, Groves certainly doesn't leave himself open for long during the exchanges and continues to do all of the right things - hands up, bobbing and weaving, doesn't get squared up. As he alluded to in a post fight interview with iFilmLondon, it could actually have been the beginning of the end for Froch had the referee not ludicrously stepped in; such a wild assault that only actually found its true mark on one occasion (and a good shot it was too) would doubtless have further sapped the energy of a fighter that was already looking the more flat footed of the two. A look at Froch stood in his corner in the aftermath tells you all you need to know - he was blowing heavily and could well have been taken apart by the fresher Groves down the stretch. That is entirely hypothetical, of course - we are all aware of Carl's superhuman powers of endurance and durability - but it is entirely plausible, too.

Groves may also have had an opportunity on the counter as Froch left himself wide open and got a little too square on for the liking of boxing purists.

Froch's durability was as commendable as it was unbelievable - he took some damaging shots and was largely outboxed for a significant proportion of the fight - and whilst he may well have worn Groves down in the remaining rounds (I don't think he would have, but I accept that individuals will have formed their own opinion on that) I'm just extremely frustrated both for George Groves and for boxing itself which yet again, in the manner of a depressed schizophrenic, seems to be contributing to its own slow demise. The age of the classic fight - the Benn/Eubank, the Barrera/Morales, the Gatti/Ward - is over I'm afraid, certainly in Britain anyway. As with many walks of life in our green and pleasant lands, health and safety has signalled a death knell to a once great sport.

I am not one for conspiracy theories generally, don’t believe Princess Di was bumped off, believe we went to the moon and believe Oswald shot Kennedy so I take some convincing as to brown envelopes being passed to refs or judges in clandestine meetings. However for all that how frequently do we have to see house fighters being the beneficiary of referring or judging incompetence.

On Saturday would stopping Froch in the first have been anymore unjustified than stopping Groves in the ninth, would having Groves pitching a shutout have been anymore outlandish than having him in front by only one point. Whilst there are the odd examples that show it is not always the house fighter who benefits, Manny vs Bradley springs to mind, alas there are far too many the other way to not raise at least an element of suspicion.

Fists of Fury wrote: As with many walks of life in our green and pleasant lands, healthy and safety has signalled a death knell to a once great sport.

I have been banging the drum for some time that fights are stopped to early now, however as I said previously it is a little suss that the victim in these premature stoppages always seems to be the non house fighter. Don't remember the referee in the Enzo Mac Frenkel fight being quite as squeemish as Howard Foster suddenly became on Saturday.

Indeed, Rowley. Froch looked in a much worse way after that heavy knockdown in the first than Groves did at any stage during the 9th, in my opinion (Carl might have been lucky that the round was nearing its conclusion - his legs were not in the best of shape). Would Groves have been allowed to continue? I have big doubts.

Of course Groves would be stopped if that was him in the first. The officiated from Foster was one of the most one-sided and bias displays I've ever seen. Couple that with 2 judges having Froch within a point and you'll have a hard time convincing me everything was above board. Groves was never going to be allowed to win that fight.

mobilemaster8 wrote:Disagree big time with your naive comments.

Funny that given how GG made your pre-fight comments and suppositions look bloody stupid.

Fawning over Froch and dismissing Groves chances, then the latter goes on to hand the former a boxing lesson. 6 rounds to 2 up, plus a 10-8 in the first, corrupt judging aside the ko was the only way Froch could win that fight.

It was labelled a Battle of Britain, but as GG alluded to, in reality it was a battle of reputations. Froch's reputation of iron chinned warrior allowed him to be given chance after chance of absorbing punishment (plus, being the champ, gifted him close rounds judging by those awful cards) whereas GG's 'chinny' reputation meant he was stopped at the earliest opportunity the first time he was in trouble.

Froch got very lucky there, he should just retire now. Can never beat Ward and a young pretender has just shown him up on the world scene. There is nothing more out there for him.

Lumbering_Jack wrote:Tunes and mobile are banging the same drum I see...

Tunes is like Steffan though. Steff's love of JC meant he hates all things Froch, Tunes' infatuation with JdG means he hates all things Groves.

Having thought about it...perhaps Froch was pretty smart himself in the run up to the fight with his constant references to Groves' "glass chin". Sometimes, if you say something enough, some people with take it as gospel (like Froch winning the first fight with Kessler!!). Perhaps Foster was influenced by this who knows, he's certainly not telling.

The stoppage stinks to high Heaven and ranks alongside the Johnny Nelson/Carl Thompson fiasco. ie the ref isn't even looking at the fighter's face when he steps in to see if his eyes are clear or not.

Look at the punishment Kessler took in the rematch with Froch and at no stage did anyone consider stepping in. Look at the way Calzaghe pounded Lacy for 12 rounds and the referee never stepped in (pretty much everyone agrees Lacy should have been pulled out of there a couple of rounds before the end).

Sad (but unsurprising) to see some posters critcising Eddie Hearn for the stoppage. If someone can provide evidence that Hearn signals Foster to step in then I'll agree there's a massive conspiracy (news that Howard Foster 'liked' a Facebook comment where someone had predicted a 9th round stoppage are unfortunate and embarrassing but not proof of anything other than a poor lack of judgement on Foster's part...as if we needed further proof of THAT)

This debate as to who would have gone on to do what will undoubted continue a la Lewis/Vitali and I doubt that anyone will ever change their stance on it.

The one undeniable truth here is that Froch should go nowhere near Andre Ward and that, dear peeps, is PHACKT!

Rowley wrote:

Fists of Fury wrote: As with many walks of life in our green and pleasant lands, healthy and safety has signalled a death knell to a once great sport.

I have been banging the drum for some time that fights are stopped to early now, however as I said previously it is a little suss that the victim in these premature stoppages always seems to be the non house fighter. Don't remember the referee in the Enzo Mac Frenkel fight being quite as squeemish as Howard Foster suddenly became on Saturday.

Luke Campbell commented on Twitter that he'd rather see a fight stopped 1 punch too early than 1 too late.

Given some of recent tragedies I think he has a point (though Saturday night was a mile more than '1 punch' too early, my comment is meant more generally).

My view of it, which I posted during the fight, was that Groves was fading after the 6th. He just looked like he was tiring to me and the power and speed of his punches had diminished.  Froch was able to take Groves right hand more comfortably, for the first time in the fight, in the 7th and 8th. At the time I saw it that Groves was the fighter struggling in rounds 8 and 9 and Froch was going to continue to eat into Groves lead in the subsequent rounds or stop him. It didn't look to me that Groves had a second wind but unfortunately for everyone concerned he didn't get the opportunity to show he could dig deep and find something else within him.

I'm like a broken record at this stage but I can't get past the frustration I have as a viewer that the house fighter gets treated so favourably.  It has reached a level now that people are finding it very difficult not to be distrustful of officialdom. It probably has a lot to do with officials ingratiating themselves with certain promoters because that is how business works in all walks of life. Every freelance person or contractor needs to win work to earn a crust, same for officials.

He has a point - but only if the recipient is defenceless, on unsteady legs hence diminishing his ability to absorb a shot or just not throwing back for a sustained period of time. Any one or a combination of those and yes, his point is valid. None are applicable to Groves, who was moving, defending, weaving, responding. Whilst Froch's wild attack made it look like Groves was taking a beating he only actually lands one clean shot, the others were either glancing blows or wide of the mark entirely as a result of George's evasive action - a sure sign that a fighter is in a more than fit state to continue.

We could talk health and safety and the optimum time to stop a fight until we are blue in the face, but Foster had no right whatsoever to stop this particular one.

There's no conspiracy just really REALLY poor judgement from Howard Foster.

Talk of officials ingratiating themselves with promotors looks foolish when it seems likely that Foster is unlikely to get another high profile fight for some time after this weekend's performance

Can not really add much and pretty much agree with Strongy, think he was fadin but we will never know

This is one of the most frustrating times to be a boxing fan, Home decisions, bad matchmaking and alphabet belts is almost making a perfect storm of daftenss which is threatening the sport...

DAVE667 wrote:There's no conspiracy just really REALLY poor judgement from Howard Foster.

Talk of officials ingratiating themselves with promotors looks foolish when it seems likely that Foster is unlikely to get another high profile fight for some time after this weekend's performance

Foster will be refereeing in the next few weekends and will referee top fights. The Head of the BBBofC said after the fight that Foster is a world class referee. Nothing will change. It's not like Warren doesn't keep using Terry O'Connor.

Boxing is self regulated which is a practice that never leads to transparency or fairness in my view.

Problem is, as I've said elsewhere on the board, that we have a dire pool to choose from. British refereeing is at a historic low and I would like to see the best ref available given world title fights in this country, even if the fight involves two British fighters. In this regard, America still leads the boxing world - perhaps a leaf out of cricket's book is needed and an elite panel of refs who are despatched all over the world to take charge of fights is the answer.

Robert Smith is a gutless moron. He's not the type of person you want leading an organisation.

4 people matter when officiating a fight, the ref and the 3 judges. Now if you look at at each performance in isolation it may not be so bad. People can have stinkers, which isn't an acceptable excuse, but it can on occasion happen. But this type of utter nonsense happens far to often and when you consider that 3 of the 4 officials are al having 'bad nights' at the same time then something doesn't add up for me. Nobody has any proof of corruption, but are we suggesting that it is down to a bad night? Of a sample of the press scoring the fight, only 1 out of about 50 had it the same as the 2 judges. What are the odds of that? Pretty damn low.

Seen you on tv Saturday night rowley, with the missus on your shoulders. She was loving it, good to see a good night had by all (apart from froch, groves, the ref, 2 judges.....)

jimdig wrote:Seen you on tv Saturday night rowley, with the missus on your shoulders.

She is a nightmare when she has been on the Absinthe.

Rowley wrote:

jimdig wrote:Seen you on tv Saturday night rowley, with the missus on your shoulders.

She is a nightmare when she has been on the Absinthe.

Ah, she was having a quiet night out then.

Rowley wrote:

jimdig wrote:Seen you on tv Saturday night rowley, with the missus on your shoulders.

She is a nightmare when she has been on the Absinthe.

Be grateful she didn't have asparagus as well

No way can that stoppage be explained by anything other than corruption. It made the Calzaghe/Mitchell stoppage look like Mercer/Morrison.

I saw the fight again and my opinion has not changed, that the ref was extremely poor and to me had some incentive to help Froch.

He allowed Froch to punch on the break (some of which hard shots) numerous times and no point deduction.

At the very worst the ref could have given Groves a standing 8 count when he stopped it. I am sure Groves would have been dropped if the ref hadn't stopped it but that doesn't warrant stopping the fight - Groves fell back against the ropes after the ref let go so he was rocked but not out of it or dangerously vulnerable.

It is not out of the realms of impossibility that Froch could have stopped Groves in the last 3 rounds however both deserved the opportunity to find out.

It's shocking that 2 judges had Groves only up by 1 point so if the fight had carried on and Froch got a 10-8 in round 9 he would have been 1 point up going into the championship rounds!

A cracking fight forever spoiled by Foster.

UK boxing has had some terrible PR of late the 3 biggest UK fights being:

1 - Burns/Beltran: enough said
2- Haye/Fury: Huge UK fight postponed then cancelled
3 - Froch/Groves: Suspicious stoppage to spoil a great fight