How does Clev avoid this?

Dan Rafael says he spent time with BHop and he says he's willing to travel to the UK for a unification fight.

http://sport.uk.msn.com/trending-blog/twitter-hails-bernard-hopkins-boxings-oldest-ever-world-champion

The caveat to this is that i can't find the statement on his Twitter link anymore. Why would he delete it?

Probably money issues

Warren issues. Boxers tend to fight whoever is put in front of them. Their manager/promoter makes the fight and boxers lace up and fight. Clev is getting too much stick because his manager/promoter is not doing a good job with him.

I reckon Clev would jump at a chance of fighting the big boys. Warren has not delivered.

Warren got him a world title so I dont think hes done bad by Cleverly. Somebody like Hearn might well have matched Cleverly tougher, but ended up like Bellew having to face the top guy in the division in his back yard.

I think Warrens been overly conservative from a fans perspective which has contributed to his dwindling fortune. But hes got Cleverly title and has manage to keep him holding onto it.

Pull another sicky?

manos de piedra wrote:Warren got him a world title so I dont think hes done bad by Cleverly. Somebody like Hearn might well have matched Cleverly tougher, but ended up like Bellew having to face the top guy in the division in his back yard.

I think Warrens been overly conservative from a fans perspective which has contributed to his dwindling fortune. But hes got Cleverly title and has manage to keep him holding onto it.

Given the nature of sport is to prove yourself the best against your peers, is this really enough?

bhb001 wrote:

manos de piedra wrote:Warren got him a world title so I dont think hes done bad by Cleverly. Somebody like Hearn might well have matched Cleverly tougher, but ended up like Bellew having to face the top guy in the division in his back yard.

I think Warrens been overly conservative from a fans perspective which has contributed to his dwindling fortune. But hes got Cleverly title and has manage to keep him holding onto it.

Given the nature of sport is to prove yourself the best against your peers, is this really enough?

Ideally no, but not always the case. Few boxers would fight for free. Financial security and career management are important. Whats best for the fans isn’t always best for the fighter. Being a promoter is a balancing act. Im not advocating Warrens methods per se – I think its overly conservative from a fans perspective. But at the same time he has steered Cleverly towards a world title which isn’t too bad going. Realistically its easier said than done to get someone like Hopkins who isn’t known for being overly generous in his demands. Would it have been good matchmaking for Cleverly to have to put his title on the line in a venue of Hopkins choice for less than 50% of the purse for instance? As a fan obviously I would prefer that to someone like Hawk or Karpency but its probably not the best career move for Cleverly at this stage. Having said that he should be fighting better than what he has been so far so I think Warren has been stagnating with him.

manos de piedra wrote:

bhb001 wrote:

manos de piedra wrote:Warren got him a world title so I dont think hes done bad by Cleverly. Somebody like Hearn might well have matched Cleverly tougher, but ended up like Bellew having to face the top guy in the division in his back yard.

I think Warrens been overly conservative from a fans perspective which has contributed to his dwindling fortune. But hes got Cleverly title and has manage to keep him holding onto it.

Given the nature of sport is to prove yourself the best against your peers, is this really enough?

Ideally no, but not always the case. Few boxers would fight for free. Financial security and career management are important. Whats best for the fans isn’t always best for the fighter. Being a promoter is a balancing act. Im not advocating Warrens methods per se – I think its overly conservative from a fans perspective. But at the same time he has steered Cleverly towards a world title which isn’t too bad going. Realistically its easier said than done to get someone like Hopkins who isn’t known for being overly generous in his demands. Would it have been good matchmaking for Cleverly to have to put his title on the line in a venue of Hopkins choice for less than 50% of the purse for instance? As a fan obviously I would prefer that to someone like Hawk or Karpency but its probably not the best career move for Cleverly at this stage. Having said that he should be fighting better than what he has been so far so I think Warren has been stagnating with him.

I disagree re: staying with Warren just because he got him the title. It's common knowledge that Warren has strong ties with the WBO which has accelerated some of his fighters obtaining this alphabet belt. But truth is, if Cleverly doesn't start taking more/ any risks in his career then his financial success will suffer as a result.

Simple case is, he isn't getting to fight, regardless of holding an alphabet title. Without fighting he's not going to gain on his limited experience to date with his toughest opponent being Tony Bellow who at the time, wasn't really a key player in the domestic let alone world scene at the time.

Sooner Clev leaves, the better. I fail to see any argument on why he should stick with Warren, except for being tied to a contract.

All Time Great wrote: I disagree re: staying with Warren just because he got him the title

All Time Great wrote: Sooner Clev leaves, the better. I fail to see any argument on why he should stick with Warren, except for being tied to a contract.

To be honest I fail to see who you are disagreeing with? In the seven posts prior to yours I can't see anyone arguing that Clev should stick with Warren.

If you are referring to Manos, then all he said was Warren's done alright steering Clev to a title.

All Time Great wrote: his toughest opponent being Tony Bellow who at the time, wasn't really a key player in the domestic let alone world scene at the time.

If Tony Bellow (as you put it) wasn't a key player on the domestic scene at the time of the fight then who was? I'd say he was rated number 2 in the country.

Golden Boy Promotions were really excited by Cleverly when he went out to the US to fight. He put on a good show against a limited by game opponent.

With GBP UK looking to start in the next few months there's always a chance Clev sees sense and moves over. He'd get better pay days, better coverage and the fight that he craves so much!

Hopkins vs. Cleverly in Cardiff Millenium Stadium? Sign me up for that one.

Why would he avoid it????..................Pick Clev to win convincingly as long as he makes him fight for over 30 seconds a round....

Also his camp should make sure the referee penalises ole man river for his spoiling regularly and early!!.....

Cleverly by ko11...............

All Time Great wrote:

manos de piedra wrote:

bhb001 wrote:

manos de piedra wrote:Warren got him a world title so I dont think hes done bad by Cleverly. Somebody like Hearn might well have matched Cleverly tougher, but ended up like Bellew having to face the top guy in the division in his back yard.

I think Warrens been overly conservative from a fans perspective which has contributed to his dwindling fortune. But hes got Cleverly title and has manage to keep him holding onto it.

Given the nature of sport is to prove yourself the best against your peers, is this really enough?

Ideally no, but not always the case. Few boxers would fight for free. Financial security and career management are important. Whats best for the fans isn’t always best for the fighter. Being a promoter is a balancing act. Im not advocating Warrens methods per se – I think its overly conservative from a fans perspective. But at the same time he has steered Cleverly towards a world title which isn’t too bad going. Realistically its easier said than done to get someone like Hopkins who isn’t known for being overly generous in his demands. Would it have been good matchmaking for Cleverly to have to put his title on the line in a venue of Hopkins choice for less than 50% of the purse for instance? As a fan obviously I would prefer that to someone like Hawk or Karpency but its probably not the best career move for Cleverly at this stage. Having said that he should be fighting better than what he has been so far so I think Warren has been stagnating with him.

I disagree re: staying with Warren just because he got him the title. It's common knowledge that Warren has strong ties with the WBO which has accelerated some of his fighters obtaining this alphabet belt. But truth is, if Cleverly doesn't start taking more/ any risks in his career then his financial success will suffer as a result.

Simple case is, he isn't getting to fight, regardless of holding an alphabet title. Without fighting he's not going to gain on his limited experience to date with his toughest opponent being Tony Bellow who at the time, wasn't really a key player in the domestic let alone world scene at the time.

Sooner Clev leaves, the better. I fail to see any argument on why he should stick with Warren, except for being tied to a contract.

Hard to know without seeing what Clev is earning really. I have no idea if he is earning more with warren than he could elsewhere. I think warrens been overly conservative in his last few fights with Cleverly but at the same time Im not convinced Cleverly has been ready for a lot of the better names in the division. I mean if you were promoting him, and you see him scrape past Bellew who at the time was basically domestic level, what do you do? You don’t want to put him in a match he stands a big chance of losing his title in unless its going to be for really good money. The bigger names in the division are going to want the lions share of the purse and probably demand home advantage. I think warren did a decent job getting Cleverly a title. The problem as much as anything is that Cleverly won the title before his time and faced higher expectations as a result. Not sure to date he would have been better off elsewhere though. I doubt he would have a world title with Hearn but the way things are recently he would probably be getting better exposure.

one thing we know is with a lot of Warren's high profile fighters leaving...Cleverly is in a much better negotiating position with Boxnation than ever......

Warren will not want to lose him..........Been great for Cleverly all this..

Kingpin now...................

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:one thing we know is with a lot of Warren's high profile fighters leaving...Cleverly is in a much better negotiating position with Boxnation than ever......

Warren will not want to lose him..........Been great for Cleverly all this..

Kingpin now...................

Is it better to be a servant in Heaven, or a King in Hell?

Cleverly is at risk of doing somethin Joe Calzaghe admitted to during the first 6 or 7 years as a World Champ in "fighting people who's names he couldn't pronounce in leisure centres". I wouldn't mind seeing him in the US more, like I said. GBP put on a good show for him and the US Audience enjoyed it... Even Oscar De La Hoya wanted him back!

That's where the money is!

manos de piedra wrote:

All Time Great wrote:

manos de piedra wrote:

bhb001 wrote:

manos de piedra wrote:Warren got him a world title so I dont think hes done bad by Cleverly. Somebody like Hearn might well have matched Cleverly tougher, but ended up like Bellew having to face the top guy in the division in his back yard.

I think Warrens been overly conservative from a fans perspective which has contributed to his dwindling fortune. But hes got Cleverly title and has manage to keep him holding onto it.

Given the nature of sport is to prove yourself the best against your peers, is this really enough?

Ideally no, but not always the case. Few boxers would fight for free. Financial security and career management are important. Whats best for the fans isn’t always best for the fighter. Being a promoter is a balancing act. Im not advocating Warrens methods per se – I think its overly conservative from a fans perspective. But at the same time he has steered Cleverly towards a world title which isn’t too bad going. Realistically its easier said than done to get someone like Hopkins who isn’t known for being overly generous in his demands. Would it have been good matchmaking for Cleverly to have to put his title on the line in a venue of Hopkins choice for less than 50% of the purse for instance? As a fan obviously I would prefer that to someone like Hawk or Karpency but its probably not the best career move for Cleverly at this stage. Having said that he should be fighting better than what he has been so far so I think Warren has been stagnating with him.

I disagree re: staying with Warren just because he got him the title. It's common knowledge that Warren has strong ties with the WBO which has accelerated some of his fighters obtaining this alphabet belt. But truth is, if Cleverly doesn't start taking more/ any risks in his career then his financial success will suffer as a result.

Simple case is, he isn't getting to fight, regardless of holding an alphabet title. Without fighting he's not going to gain on his limited experience to date with his toughest opponent being Tony Bellow who at the time, wasn't really a key player in the domestic let alone world scene at the time.

Sooner Clev leaves, the better. I fail to see any argument on why he should stick with Warren, except for being tied to a contract.

Hard to know without seeing what Clev is earning really. I have no idea if he is earning more with warren than he could elsewhere. I think warrens been overly conservative in his last few fights with Cleverly but at the same time Im not convinced Cleverly has been ready for a lot of the better names in the division. I mean if you were promoting him, and you see him scrape past Bellew who at the time was basically domestic level, what do you do? You don’t want to put him in a match he stands a big chance of losing his title in unless its going to be for really good money. The bigger names in the division are going to want the lions share of the purse and probably demand home advantage. I think warren did a decent job getting Cleverly a title. The problem as much as anything is that Cleverly won the title before his time and faced higher expectations as a result. Not sure to date he would have been better off elsewhere though. I doubt he would have a world title with Hearn but the way things are recently he would probably be getting better exposure.

To be fair, disregarding the SMWs, at LHW there isn't really many names out there with the exception of Chad Dawson who would most likely score a landslide victory against Cleverly.

I do feel he needs to be matched with the likes of a Bute or Pascal to really start progressing. Agree with you, a title has come way before his time but it's pretty obvious he's probably earned a lot less than most alphabet champions in today's era, simply as he hasn't headlined enough cards. Whether this is solely Warren's fault, is anyone's educated guess (the mass exodus of his stable suggests it is) but the buck should end with the promoter.

I would say GBP would be his best bet, I'd imagine that he would get matched well and that's the only way we'd find out how good Cleverly is. Bellew has put on some really good performances as of late, so it goes to show to some extent that Cleverly must have some talent to go with his fan pleasing style. A WBO title is pretty worthless to him at the moment, as it hasn't generated any income.