Indian Wells Match Thread (Nadal wins!)

by Silver Sat Mar 16, 2013 9:46 am

First topic message reminder :

Rafael Nadal defeats Juan Martin Del Potro to win Indian Wells 2013! 4-6, 6-3, 6-4.

Nadal's route to the title:

R1: Bye
R2: Ryan Harrison (7-6, 6-2)
R3: Leonardo Mayer (Walkover)
R4: Ernests Gulbis (4-6, 6-4, 7-5)
QF: Roger Federer (6-4, 6-2)
SF: Tomas Berdych (6-4, 7-5)
F: Juan Martin Del Potro (4-6, 6-3, 6-4)

Updated draw on the ATP site.

by Henman Bill Mon Mar 18, 2013 10:14 am

Danny_1982 wrote:Delpo is all but out of gas. Rafa still looks quite spritely.

This is a matter of time surely.

Can't remember the last easy Del Potro hold. Then again, it's never over until it's over.

by Silver Mon Mar 18, 2013 10:17 am

Yeah, after yesterday's final set comeback I'm not counting him out until this is over.

by Henman Bill Mon Mar 18, 2013 10:20 am

Can Del Potro get just one easy hold here..limit RN to 2 pts or less?

by Henman Bill Mon Mar 18, 2013 10:22 am

Finally an easy hold. Now, just get the break back and turn this from a good match to a great match.

by Silver Mon Mar 18, 2013 10:22 am

It's amazing, reading back through the thread and seeing how the momentum changed so fast in Rafa's favour. Sadly I can't watch (stuck in the library working) but thanks for the updates all.

by Henman Bill Mon Mar 18, 2013 10:26 am

Earlier in the match the rallies were very even, but with nearly every point a rally, and Rafa winning most, and really controlling and dominating at times, this looks very hard for Del Potro now.

by Henman Bill Mon Mar 18, 2013 10:34 am

methinks some people have gone to bed

by ALPanorak Mon Mar 18, 2013 10:35 am

Nadal held comfortably, sealed with an ace to lead 5-3 final set. Delpo is going to have to dig deep to keep this match alive.

by summerblues Mon Mar 18, 2013 10:36 am

by LuvSports! Mon Mar 18, 2013 10:36 am

I think nadal will seal it here and break.

by summerblues Mon Mar 18, 2013 10:36 am

3 MPs

by Silver Mon Mar 18, 2013 10:39 am

Full credit to JMDP. Fantastic effort to save those! Still has to hold though.

by LuvSports! Mon Mar 18, 2013 10:40 am

wow unreal from delpo!

by lydian Mon Mar 18, 2013 10:41 am

This will be one tight game coming up...

by Danny_1982 Mon Mar 18, 2013 10:41 am

What heart from Delpo !

by Henman Bill Mon Mar 18, 2013 10:42 am

wow, looked like DP had given up at 0-30 or 0-40 and then what a save after that!

Rafa to serve for the match now.

by Henman Bill Mon Mar 18, 2013 10:43 am

unforced error count very low from RN in 2nd half of the match

by ALPanorak Mon Mar 18, 2013 10:46 am

Match point Rafa 40-15

by Henman Bill Mon Mar 18, 2013 10:47 am

Shakes Larry Ellison's hand "thanks for the big cheque mate!"

by summerblues Mon Mar 18, 2013 10:48 am

Well done to Rafa. He has what 1900 out of possible 2000 points since his return? Something like that in any event.

Delpo can also be happy with his week - after beating Andy and Nole he certainly held his own today too.

by lydian Mon Mar 18, 2013 10:49 am

Wow...what a match...amazing strength of character from both men...Delpo was running on empty towards the end but just kept going. I suspect Nadal learnt a lot that match about staying aggressive, being passive almost killed him. Great match by both clap

by Silver Mon Mar 18, 2013 10:50 am

Well done Rafa, fantastic comeback. Who would've predicted this at the start of the tournament?

Astonishing heart from JMDP to hold in that last service game, wow!

by Henman Bill Mon Mar 18, 2013 10:51 am

When Rafa started his comeback at Vina he probably would have settled for Monte Carlo, Roland Garros, and nothing else for the season. Now I think he has to look a bit higher.

Having said that I think he should skip Miami and take a rest. Surely he doesn’t want to repeat the over playing errors of the past. Leave it to Novak, Andy and the others to battle it out, avoid some hard court for his knees, get ready for the clay season instead, and play Miami next year. Especially after going the distance here Miami could be missed.

DP really unlucky. So hard to win a masters these days, and shame he couldn’t win it. So close but he needs to improve his ability to win deciding sets at the end of tournaments. I do think Del Potro was the best player in the tournament before the final, but Rafa was the best player in the final.

Impressive for Rafa to hit more winners than UEs on a surface as slow as this, where aces are few and far between.

by ALPanorak Mon Mar 18, 2013 10:52 am

lydian wrote:Wow...what a match...amazing strength of character from both men...Delpo was running on empty towards the end but just kept going. I suspect Nadal learnt a lot that match about staying aggressive, being passive almost killed him. Great match by both

Yeah Nadal is admitting as much in the post-match interview with B.Gilbert. Superb comeback so far from the guy though, really is a legend of the game, watch out Djokovic! (Also credit to Del Potro, I hope he takes this week's results forward and pushes on for a spot in the top 5)

by Henman Bill Mon Mar 18, 2013 10:53 am

I was tipping Rafa as year end no 2 until he missed the AO. After that changed my mind and thought Murray would finish the year 2. But Rafa is well in there, the 2 of them could battle it out.

Djokovic quite far ahead at the moment. I don't think Rafa is ready for Djokovic on a hard court yet, but he is getting closer.

by Henman Bill Mon Mar 18, 2013 10:54 am

How come the news of no Rafa in Miami filtered through during the match? Very strange? Either announce it before or after?

by socal1976 Mon Mar 18, 2013 10:56 am

Congrats to both competitors who played a great match and both showed some great heart. Al Panorak I certainly never doubted that Nadal would be back and if the legs hold up battling for the top honors and the number 1 ranking. He looks so good, frankly as good as ever. Juan should be one of the top three favorites for miami. Put him in murray's half that is what I am hoping for.

by Henman Bill Mon Mar 18, 2013 10:56 am

By the way, I think Rafa's withdrawal from Miami confirms IW as bigger than Miami now, and so the biggest masters:

Bigger stadium.
More prize money.
More top players playing - IW gets all of the top 4 and Miami loses Fedal.

Shame for Miami which used to be the 5th slam.

Shame we don't get to see Rafa-Andy on a hard court for a while. That could have been tasty to see at either IW or Miami.

by socal1976 Mon Mar 18, 2013 10:57 am

Nadal has a lot of points to make up to catch Djoko and even murray, he can't really gain much up till wimbeldon because he won everything on the clay last year.

by Henman Bill Mon Mar 18, 2013 10:57 am

Socal, obvious let down potential for Del Potro at Miami. Probably has nearly a week before playing a match but even so. Not sure he will be able to repeat this level. I think Novak will win Miami, or maybe Murray. One of the two anyway.

by socal1976 Mon Mar 18, 2013 11:02 am

Me too HB, HB he hit a lot of backhands up the line but did you notice how short and lack of penetration he got on the backhand up the line. I still find it to be a hole in Del PO's game. I like Murray at Miami, Djoko seems to be off the boil a little and I don't think he is going to have the same desperate focus till gets close to RG.

Agree IW is the preminent Master's due to larry's money. I am happy about that.

by **laverfan** Mon Mar 18, 2013 11:07 am

Larry Nadal wins IW Clay Court Trophy. drumroll

by Silver Mon Mar 18, 2013 11:11 am

Interestingly, the ultimate loser of Indian Wells is none other than Horacio Zeballos!

He lost to Ramos, who lost to Cilic, who lost to Raonic, who lost to Tsonga, who lost to Djokovic, who lost to Del Potro, who lost to Nadal devil

by lydian Mon Mar 18, 2013 11:22 am

Løl Silver, nice spot there.

LF, sometimes you can almost be a WUM Wink

IW may be a slower surface but it's sweet FA like a clay court.

Yep hard to see anyone other than Djokovic winning Miami...Delpo is going to be in the mix now though. Nadal gets to rest the knee and sit back in confidence as he waits to try to go 9 in a row at Monte Carlo. He's played 22 matches now since Feb 8 so he likely needs that rest. You can tell that title meant a lot, more than many of his slams, indeed it likely told him he can win more slams given the worlds top32 players entered IW this time and he emerged the victor. Most be quite some feeling all told.

by Josiah Maiestas Mon Mar 18, 2013 11:29 am

I think Rafa is totally disgusting win or lose. Unlucky Juan!

by summerblues Mon Mar 18, 2013 11:37 am

socal1976 wrote:Nadal has a lot of points to make up to catch Djoko and even murray, he can't really gain much up till wimbeldon

But he sure can gain thereafter Smile

by Silver Mon Mar 18, 2013 11:42 am

lydian wrote:You can tell that title meant a lot, more than many of his slams, indeed it likely told him he can win more slams given the worlds top32 players entered IW this time and he emerged the victor. Most be quite some feeling all told.

He may have feared at points during his layoff that he may never return to be competitive again, let alone come back and perform as competently as he has. As you say, it must be quite a feeling - a huge relief to him if nothing else! He's not even the full article yet, but he's looked strong and consistent throughout against good opposition. The rest of the tour needs to watch out, he'll only get better with the clay season nearly upon us.

by socal1976 Mon Mar 18, 2013 11:59 am

lydian wrote:Løl Silver, nice spot there.

LF, sometimes you can almost be a WUM
IW may be a slower surface but it's sweet FA like a clay court.

Yep hard to see anyone other than Djokovic winning Miami...Delpo is going to be in the mix now though. Nadal gets to rest the knee and sit back in confidence as he waits to try to go 9 in a row at Monte Carlo. He's played 22 matches now since Feb 8 so he likely needs that rest. You can tell that title meant a lot, more than many of his slams, indeed it likely told him he can win more slams given the worlds top32 players entered IW this time and he emerged the victor. Most be quite some feeling all told.

I don't see why you can't see Murray winning it. I honestly don't think Novak is going to be that focused and his form at IW doesn't leave much to be optimistic about.

by **laverfan** Mon Mar 18, 2013 12:11 pm

lydian wrote: LF, sometimes you can almost be a WUM
IW may be a slower surface but it's sweet FA like a clay court.

I am not WUMming. Wink

Between 2010 and 2012, it has gone from a pot-holed road to a quick-sand pit. Miami will be the same. The Clay season starts with Golden Swing and ends after RG. Run

by Guest Mon Mar 18, 2013 7:40 pm

What a climax of a final that was.

I am absolutely astonished by the week Del Potro has had the variation he has seemingly adopted as the week has worn on. First couple of rounds he just blasted the opposition off the court. Against Murray and Djokovic his slice was just unbelievable. Especially against Murray. I think he demonstrated more variety. Murray and Djokovic tried hard to keep Del Potro off his FH. Djokovic tried to take on the Del Potro FH which impressed me. I really did think he would take Nadal out after the break in the 2nd set, but fatigue got the better of him. His service speeds much lower. I don't think he will have too many complaints given his form.

Nadal. Wow. The guy is back. Still not convinced he is fully fit. The movement is not what it used to be. However, that shortfall has given way to more shorter points. The FH cerainly has some umpphhh and the length is just ridiculous. His serving variation is just sublime. Hitting the 120's at times. The serve out wide has been very effective. I think yesterday he did panic. The fact Del Potro was keeping himself active in points that Nadal was bossing was starting the un-settle him. It took Rafa a long time to settle down again and find a rythym.

All roads lead to Miami now. Djokovic and Murray will certainly tussle for the title.

by lydian Mon Mar 18, 2013 7:44 pm

Nice summary LK, Nadal started aggressive, went passive and realised it was killing him then realised he needed to go aggressive again. Well played by both guys, a good match to watch.

Sorry LF but calling it the 'Larry Nadal Clay Court Trophy' is tantamount wumming in my book because its going to wind up Nadal fans due to it it sounding like a cynical denigration of both the event and the title won.

by Guest Mon Mar 18, 2013 7:53 pm

Nadal did and he has proved he can play aggressively. The FH has finally got back to what it was. Compare the difference to Chile and you can see how far he has come.

I think Nadal yesterday got too caught up as you say playing passive and played down the centre of the court far too much in the first set. The Nadal of old I think would've gone with the flow of the match after being broken in 2nd, but Del Potro just couldn't maintain the same level. I actually believe that Del Potro was conserving energy by slowing his serve down and moonballing from the baseline. You could see a reluctance by both to go for their shots 6-7 shots into the rallies.

I so agree with Petchey and Fleming who say the players miss a trick when not following in behind a kick serve against Nadal. He can't keep the ball low on the return and it yearns to be put away by a volley. It's ok pinning Nadal to the back of the court, but you know he will play a shot of impeccable length that will give the opponent nothing to play with.

Would've been nice to see have seen Murray or Djokovic play Nadal, though on current form I can't see them beating Nadal TBH.

by Guest Mon Mar 18, 2013 7:55 pm

Larry Nadal Laugh

Is it really his fault that a TD likes him and his style of play?

by Haddie-nuff Mon Mar 18, 2013 9:07 pm

Josiah Maiestas wrote:I think Rafa is totally disgusting win or lose. Unlucky Juan!

:

Another pearl of wisdom..keep em coming JM

by Haddie-nuff Mon Mar 18, 2013 9:08 pm

LF you do have an incy bincy pechant for a touch of wummery dont you ???

by barrystar Mon Mar 18, 2013 9:21 pm

Henman Bill wrote:When Rafa started his comeback at Vina he probably would have settled for Monte Carlo, Roland Garros, and nothing else for the season. Now I think he has to look a bit higher.

Having said that I think he should skip Miami and take a rest. Surely he doesn’t want to repeat the over playing errors of the past. Leave it to Novak, Andy and the others to battle it out, avoid some hard court for his knees, get ready for the clay season instead, and play Miami next year. Especially after going the distance here Miami could be missed.

Impressive for Rafa to hit more winners than UEs on a surface as slow as this, where aces are few and far between.

It's a terrific achievement, and for all that I don't like him as a player you've got to sit up and applaud such a significant win on HC so soon after his comeback. He has obviously been very sensible with the length of his lay-off. Which is precisely why I agree with your second sentence, but I'm not so sure that he would be wise to 'look a bit higher' yet. He's got the clay season to concentrate on now, and he's looking like doing pretty well as usual - but since it seems likely he'll have to play through it as #5 he may have some tougher and more draining draws than in the past. A Djoko marathon at the QF in Madrid or Rome could be very tough.

The problem affecting his knee is not something he's going to escape from, it's always going to need to be managed, and clay-grass is where he's broken down twice in the past. I think he'll do well to concentrate on looking after his knees in the short term and letting the results fit in around that - he'll soon be comfortable top 3, possibly top 2 (worth avoiding Djoko until F's if he can), and pick up a good heft of wins and points each year if he can do that. He's done enough, and made enough money and so-on to be absolutely prepared to drop any tournament and take whatever are the consequences from the ATP if he has the slightest doubt about his fitness and comfort.

by lydian Mon Mar 18, 2013 10:01 pm

Nice post Barry.

Rafa will likely repeat this schedule every year now...AO then clay swing into IW, dropping Miami.

The problem is what he does down the back-end of the year HC-wise as he doesn't meet ATP criteria for dropping more than 1 Masters. So far from the 3 criteria he meets > 600 matches so can drop 1 Masters, e.g. Miami.

Another criteria is 12 years on tour...now he turned pro in 2001 but didn't play first ATP match until 2002 I think so not sure if he gets 12 years in 2013 or 2014...when he can drop another Masters event. Anyone now more about this?

The 3rd criteria is > 31 years old...so that's a no-no for a long time.

I would imagine he doesn't want to play Canada and Cincy back to back...Cincy is also a tournament he never does particularly well in. There's also the 2 month long HC autumn phase what he does there in the run-up to WTFs. But he doesn't really have much room for manoeuvre outside blatant injury withdrawals.

Re: Ferrer, although he's defending a QF in Miami Nadal loses 360 pts for pulling out so drops to #5 come what may.

The entry list for MC isn't confirmed yet but if Ferrer enters he's only defending 10 pts from last year so can clearly gain a lot of points. From there they both have their usual significant results to defend until RG - for Ferrer he has F in Barcelona, QF in Madrid and SF in Rome to defend...so 850 pts to defend on clay pre-RG, whereas Nadal has 2,590!

So, its nigh-on impossible for Nadal to get to #4 pre-RG unless Ferrer has a blow-out and he sweeps up again. I don't Rafa cares too much though...he's just beat 3 x top 10 players to win IW on hardcourt, I don't think he'll be worrying too much about the RG draw - if he wants to win it he's likely going to have to beat Djokovic or Murray anyway - sooner or later.

by barrystar Mon Mar 18, 2013 11:03 pm

@Lydian

I think he's just got to be very selfish and let the devil take the hindermost.

What's the worst that the ATP can do to him if he does that - is it worse than risking knee damage? He can't be in it for the prize money, he must be in it for enjoyment and getting the best out of his body whilst he's still fit.

I think he's definitely right not to play Miami this year, and I'd think dropping 2 out of Cincinnati/Shanghai/Paris is likely to be in his interests as well. I guess he can turn up and 'tank' Cincinnati because he's there in the US anyway, but the timing of Paris and Shanghai (and distance to the latter) makes them more difficult to deal with in that way.

He's also got to decide what he wants to do about the WTF - if he's going to play it that would suggest to me that he might consider a long break between USO and Paris with Shanghai the loser.

Then there's DC, which Spain often plays on clay - my physio suggested to me the other day that a change of surface between hard and clay could be v. damaging to the top players because different stability muscles are required for each surface.

My point about being seeded #5 is that if he has a Djoko marathon in the QF of Rome or Madrid, he faces two further rounds over the next two days, so there is no chance of relaxing after a day of maximum stress for his knees. I'd think that is likely to be worse for him than facing a marathon in a Final and being able to rest for the next few days at least. Rome is the week after Madrid this year. I doubt he'd want two heavy matches,SF and F, the days immediately after a QF marathon at Madrid before a flight to Rome and starting again on Wednesday - remember Madrid 2009 when he had Djoko in the SF and Fed the next day?

by sirfredperry Mon Mar 18, 2013 11:43 pm

A fantastic effort by Rafa although one wonders just how much JMDP's terrific win over Djoko took out of the Argentine.
I felt sure Djoko was going to totally clean up this year but you have to make Rafa favourite for RG (again!) and then once we reach Wimbledon he won't have any points to defend for many months.
Rafa may not be worried about being four or five but a number of others will as they won't want to face him in the quarters.
Even those who don't like Rafa will, hopefully, look forward to more top four clashes involving the Spaniard. I'm not a Rafa fan by any means but somehow it was all a bit strange following the sport when a great champion was sidelined for so long.

by **JuliusHMarx** Tue Mar 19, 2013 12:10 am

lydian wrote:Another criteria is 12 years on tour...now he turned pro in 2001 but didn't play first ATP match until 2002 I think so not sure if he gets 12 years in 2013 or 2014...when he can drop another Masters event. Anyone now more about this?

From the ATP rules :-

"The first Year of Service shall be the first calendar year in which a player has competed in at least twelve (12) tournaments offering ranking points."

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